Mincing on a Pin Head.
The New Statesman is quite clear on the subject – you do not have the “right” to discriminate, such a right does not exist.
I would have been quite happy arguing with the headline alone, but the core of the article has provided me with much needed amusement today.
Along the journey of discovery that writing an article involves, I have discovered that Hebden Bridge in Yorkshire has the ‘highest concentration of Lesbians’ in the UK. How do they know? Who told them? Do you live in Hebden Bridge? Did you go into an estate agent’s office there and say ‘actually my wife and I are into dogging’? Did they say ‘that’s a new one on us – ‘my wife and I’ – did it make the local news. So many questions, so few answers.
Digressing, as per usual. I enjoy the side diversions. What really caught my eye in the New Statesman was the inevitable discussion of the Christian couple who were found to have acted illegally for refusing to accommodate a gay couple:
It came from being excluded because of a biologically determined difference, from being banned from doing something because of who they are.
Whoa there! – we are back to biological determination. We are born gay or non gay. I certainly was, non gay that is, so I am quite prepared to accept that some are born gay.
The argument gets into difficulties when I find myself discriminated against because of biological determination – either because I am female, or because I am not gay. Hence the research. Here is where I ended up. Sunny Bournemouth. The Hamilton Hall Hotel, where allegedly (by them) The Equalities and Human Rights Commission are quite happy that ‘where some hotels claim to be gay owned and run they are not gay venues at all, allowing anyone to stay and this is deceiving. They may be gay, but their venue is not’ the Hamilton Hall is different:
Special care, supervision or attention – s. 35(1)(a) Services may be restricted to one sex where they are provided at an establishment for persons requiring special care, supervision or attention, for example, a hospital or resettlement unit. Specialising in events for gay and bisexual men with a huge choice of events, workshops and fun things to entertain, educate, enlighten and amuse as well as a retreat to chill out in … relax … recharge the batteries … do something or do nothing … with B&B and evenings meals available. Clothing Optional Venue throughout.
Wow! Just the place for a recovering Raccoon – huge numbers of naked men (I only want to look, she said plaintively…) Is it obligatory to have sex with other guests, is looking forbidden? What is this, I am neither male nor gay nor bisexual, I am to be discriminated against – and why?
Special care, supervision or attention – s. 35(1)(a) Hamilton Hall has a duty of care to the men who use our venue – as an enormous amount of our visitors are newly ‘coming out’ married men who are searching for some answers and cannot get these anywhere else.
Women share a very different energy vibration to men; – sexually, emotionally and physically. We simply are not the same.
B-b-b-, these men were biologically determined, they are married, they are used to women – why would we bother them?
Serious embarrassment and state of undress – s.35 (1)(c) Women would feel embarrassed in a room full of naked men where they were the ‘odd one out’ and where open, honest and in depth discussions from a masculine point of view is not acceptable if there is a women present.
Er, how do you know pal? (John Bellamy, professional paid escort, is my new found ‘pal’!) You’ve just told me we’re not the same. I’m not in the slightest embarrassed by naked men.
What utter cant. The homosexual lobby fight a high profile case against a Christian couple who do not want to be embarrassed by hosting a couple whose sexual liaison distresses them – yet demand the right to own hotels where they can discriminate against other couples whose sexual determination offends them. Under the same law.
Where do the transgendered fit in – those who have yet to complete their journey?
Surely a case for Old Holborn? Anonymous, who can be sure of his sex or determination – or that of his equally masked partner? Come on @Old_Holborn – I’ll raise a fund to pay your hotel expenses, I challenge you to put a stop to this fascist nonsense and play this hotel at their own game……
Last one to book in’s a Sissy………!
December 2, 2011 at 20:52
-
HAMILTON HALL MEN ONLY HOTEL RESPONDS TO BIGOTS.
if anyone wants to know how HAMILTON HALL remains a MEN ONLY VENUE – that
they go to the web site and read what it says all about it. It really is that
simple. Before you show you have a narrow mind or a bigoted outlook on life,
make sure you know the facts before you attack others as all you do is make
yourself look ignorant and stupid.
Any gay men deliberately booking into a
Christian hotel, needs slapping, as all they do is cause trouble and their
actions are naive. If the guest house does not advertise itself as such, then
they are discriminating and that is illegal. Hamilton Hall being a MEN ONLY
VENUE is 100% legal. Just read the web site and educate yourselves.
-
November 24, 2011 at 22:44
-
I dont think us ‘two faced bigot’s should be discriminated
against.
After the decline and fall of the righteous I bet our day will
come.
After all, you all are running out of money . What then?
- November 23, 2011 at 00:05
-
Hey Anna – I thought you were a libertarian. But here you are picking on
John Bellamy, because he is trying to do what he wants to do in the face of
brigades of stupid laws stopping him from doing it, hence he has to publish
loads of rubbish on his website to try to get the law off his back.
Has he
been involved in the protest against Christian B&B owners trying to do
what they want to do in the face of stupid laws? Is he a hypocrite? I don’t
know, do you? He may be quite happy with Christian B&Bs banning gays. He
may be on our side.
Your suggestion of sending Old Holborn to wind him up
is in the same illiberal mindset of those gays who deliberately book into
Christian B&Bs to wind their proprietors up. Live and let live, I say, and
up to now I thought you had the same point of view.
- November 23, 2011 at
11:21
- December 2, 2011 at 20:58
-
HAMILTON HALL RESPONDS.
Hamilton Hall is quite legal and if you read our web site – it makes it
quite clear how and why we can remain a MEN ONLY VENUE – and I do wish
homophobes and bigots would educate themselves before making themselves look
foolish.
- November 21, 2011 at 22:09
-
“What utter cant”.
Is this a typo Anna?
We have a right to know!
-
November 22, 2011 at 08:21
-
I think she left out the apostrophe.
- November 21, 2011 at 19:37
-
Perhaps some one more knowledgeable could assist me with answers to a
question that has been puzzling me for some time.
A “Gay man” (A) likes doing (whatever pleases them both) with a another gay
man.(B).
I understand that, if ‘A’ has a sex change (gender re-assignment) , and
becomes ‘legally female’, any pre-existing ‘Civil Partnership’ between them is
annulled – but they can marry.
At what point in the process does either /both of them legally become
‘straight’ and lose the minority rights and privileges accorded by Law?
- November 21, 2011 at 15:24
-
I’m recycling this from the thread about the Independent when Matt asked
why old stories about the Garrick were being picked up.
The London clubs story is relevant because several gay hotels – such as Key
West in Torquay – are defining themselves as private clubs (like the Garrick)
in order to continue to discriminate on grounds of gender, sexual orientation
and marital/civil partnership status.
This follows the logical problem that if the Chymorvah hotel cannot
discriminate, neither can the much bigger gay sector.
The result of the Christian guest house case was clear: they must treat
married and couples in civil partnerships the same. Last week the Mr and Mrs
Bull appealed against the ruling. James Dingemans QC put the case – it went to
automatic appeal – but there is no ruling out yet.
- November 21, 2011 at 15:14
-
You are a wonderful crowd – I have spent the past two hours on the phone
booking my trip to Jersey – the ‘Vin Blanc’ tour with camper van for the 9th
January, and just howling laughing at the comments coming in – brilliant
stuff.
- November 21, 2011 at 16:15
-
Was my “Littlehampton” gag too subtle. It was a cold day in Bournemouth
when I made it…
- November 21, 2011 at
16:51
- November 21, 2011 at 18:23
-
‘camper van’ on this thread? Subtle or what? I nearly missed it Anna.
- November 21, 2011 at
18:59
-
November 22, 2011 at 10:40
-
Then try the ‘Coq D’Or’ in St Helier, Anna!!
- November 21, 2011 at 14:10
-
I’m just wondering what would happen to any regular hotel or B&B that
advertised itself as a “Clothing Optional Venue Throughout”. Can’t help
feeling that the Public Decency police would be round like a shot.
If this gaffe is some sort of swingers’ club for homosexuals, well fine –
just make that clear to all – but why call it a B&B? Bed and buggery,
perhaps?
- November 21, 2011 at 14:22
-
Just imagine the evening finger-buffet if everyone’s bollock naked.
Cringe almighty!
-
November 21, 2011 at 15:52
-
Solves the problem of where to park that extra sausage roll.
-
November 21, 2011 at 19:15
-
Or, on males, the doughnuts.
- November 22, 2011 at 00:20
-
Wearing a ‘gaff’ might be appropriate to some of the clientele, but it
would prevent ‘swinging’. Which might be a gaffe in that gaff ?
- November 21, 2011 at 13:54
-
Lesbians the toast of the Two Ferrets
Hebden Bridge in Yorkshire has
been outed as the Sapphic capital of Britain. And no one’s
complaining
Amelia Hil
The Observer, Sunday 29 July 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jul/29/theobserver.uknews2
Must be true then. So much for Brighton.
- November
21, 2011 at 14:29
-
Hey, don’t rule out Brighton yet!
They’re, err, coming up from behind, so to speak…
Comments are hilarious.
- November 21, 2011 at
15:26
-
I can’t see this going down well in Bradford.
-
November 21, 2011 at 15:28
-
As an approximate neighbour of Hebden Bridge, I can confirm that it’s
reputation as a sapphic centre is locally well-known and comfortably
accepted.
That said, nobody cares – the relatively large lesbian community is just
another aspect of this colourful, small Pennine town. Hebden Bridge is also
where you will find any manner of occult, alternative lifestyle or
wacky-baccy adherents – ‘tolerant’ is its watchword. None of those parallel
communities ever riot, roam in gangs terrorising others, threaten with guns
and knives or recruit vulnerable girls into under-age prostitution.
Visit Hebden Bridge sometime – it’s what a successful melting-pot should
be like – you might even meet a straight person or two, especially if I’m
there that day.
- November 21, 2011 at 15:36
-
“…the relatively large lesbian community …”
Too many Yorkshire puddings?
Or do you mean there’s lots of ‘em?
-
November 21, 2011 at 15:50
-
From experience – both !
(In a non-judgemental way, of course)
-
November 22, 2011 at 04:13
-
What about Compo, Cleggy, Howard, Marina and of course the beautiful
Nora Batty?
-
November 22, 2011 at 08:44
-
Sorry Mole, wrong Pennine town, that’s Holmfirth, near Huddersfield –
a very different kettle of fishwives.
- November 21, 2011 at 13:43
-
“Anna likes controversial topics”
One of your more outstanding
commenters wrote that a few threads back.
My, er I mean their, words were
spot-on.
There’ll be more venom than a Person-Of-African-Origins Mamba (pc has even
reached here).
Actually, Old Moore’s predictions of topics in that previous thread have
proved
crappier than a dysenteric’s u-bend so this thread will probably be
all “Absolutely right” “100% with you, Anna” and invites to join Brad Pitt for
skinny-dipping.
C’est la vie said the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell.
- November
21, 2011 at 13:25
-
There may be a misunderstanding here. It is possible that in the area there
are several blokes called Les’ Binns, it is a local surname.
- November
21, 2011 at 14:27
-
-
November 21, 2011 at 13:15
-
1. This was a stitch up, there are plenty of gay friendly & advertised
as such B&Bs in the area.
2. At the same time as this, there was a Blackpool Disco, advertising on
the web, as “for Gays only”. No action was taken against them – though the
clause was pretty soon removed.
Maybe there should be a parallel law, against singling out people in order
to force *your* beliefs down their throats. Its one thing having equal rights
for minority groups. Quite another giving them special rights, for being so.
The couple that did this are a right pair of nasties.
- November 21, 2011 at 13:04
-
What the hell do they mean a different energy vibration? It sounds like a
Star Wars themed sex toy. Anyway, I asked Mrs Exile and she said she’s sure
she hasn’t got one of those, whatever it is, and she thinks it really just
means that some of the fairies are frightened of vaginas.
-
November 21, 2011 at 13:15
-
“It sounds like a Star Wars themed sex toy.”
Perhaps they have ” Wookey” instead of ” Nookie”
- November 21, 2011 at 12:55
-
As a wrinkly hetero, exposure to ‘normal’ homosexual men and couples in
recent decades has brought mature balance to my attitudes. I hope.
I do
think it’s counterproductive to run an hotel and then refuse entry to people
where there is no logical reason.
It’s a hospitality trade for God’s
sake!
You put up with the eccentricities of Joe Public to get his or her
money.
I think the strident activists are just embarrassing. The gay men
I’ve met wouldn’t go within a mile of a gay bar.
-
November 21, 2011 at 13:09
-
When I’m on holiday in Gran Canaria, my wife and I frequently go to the
Gay Bars in Playa De Inglis— they are a laugh. The drag acts & Comics
are very funny
- November 22, 2011 at 02:33
-
Pompey – could you please team up with one of the several presidents of
Europe, so as to give the headline writers a “”Rompuy-Pompey”
opportunity.
- November 22, 2011 at 09:43
-
What try and organise some Rompuy- Pompey between Merkel, Sarkosy
& Berlussconi?
Guess who would be the Dom?
-
November 21, 2011 at 12:54
-
Fucking
Provocative
Obnoxious
Obstinate
Friends of
Dorothy
Sanctimony
-
November 21, 2011 at 13:12
-
Do I take it you dont like GAYS?
- November 21, 2011 at
14:01
-
Don’t mind ‘em at all – it’s just that I detest dishonesty and
hypocrites more than anything in this world…………………..which is generally why
I loath the left and all those who project its agenda.
- November 21, 2011 at 14:56
-
I hate everyone— makes it easy
I don like dishonesty and
hypocrites either
- November 21, 2011 at 12:11
-
You continue to delight me from across the pond; please continue to say the
things that need to be said. Take care of yourself!
- November 21, 2011 at 11:07
-
Have I tumbled through a looking glass?
I *think* their fancy policy
statements amount to ‘we’ve deliberately set this place up to ensure that we
can restrict our clientele to those people we find acceptable’. I say *think*
because the language (ab)used is riddled with trite pop-psychology
faux-sincere platitudes.
And they are right – I would be embarassed to be
in the same room as ‘them’, just not for the reasons they think……..
- November 21, 2011 at
11:24
-
‘we’ve deliberately set this place up to ensure that we can restrict our
clientèle to those people we find acceptable’
Which if I remember correctly, was precisely the argument of the
Christian couple…….
-
November 21, 2011 at 11:54
-
You’re memory is perfectly correct…. a plague of bed bugs on all their
B&B’s.
-
November 21, 2011 at 13:06
-
Remember UK Courts and Law is only here now to safeguard the ” Rights
of Victim groups”
Ordinary people are “special” enough to acquire such
rights
- November 21, 2011 at 14:14
-
I checked back on the case of the Christian couple, Peter and Hazelmary
(Hail Mary!!??) Bull. The gay chaps, Martin Hall and Steven Peddy, copped
£1,800 each for ‘sexual orientation discrimination’.
Although I don’t suppose the Bulls would do it, if it were me I think
I’d just have to try and book in at Hamilton Hall: looks like potentially
a nice earner, and the Bulls would have a fair chance of getting their
money back.
- November 21, 2011 at 10:39
-
I’m non-conformist about this. I’d rather people did openly discriminate in
every area – against women, gays, races etc. That way, I’d know to avoid those
establishments that only comply with the law rather than believe in it, and
I’d make sure my money went to open minded genuine egalitarians rather than
two-faced closeted bigots.
- November 21, 2011 at
10:42
-
November 27, 2011 at 19:59
-
Which, unfortunately, makes you a bigot.
Winston Smith
- November 21, 2011 at 10:24
-
What on earth does, “Clothing Optional Venue throughout” mean? If they mean
the entire venue allows nudity, why not say it clearly?
I would book a room there if it were a bit nearer, say at
Littlehampton…
{ 52 comments }