Let Colonel Gadaffi stay in Libya, then…
The New York Times is reporting that Colonel Gadaffi will not leave Libya.
In talks with South Africa President Jacob Zuma, the Libya leader Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi “emphasized” that he will not leave Libya despite air attacks and international pressure, according to a statement released Tuesday by Mr. Zuma’s office.
Here at the Raccoon’s den we have some suggestions where he could go should he choose to stay put.
He could stay at the prison in Benghazi where he kept Fadlallah Haroun for 7 years.
… where some of the cells are less than 5 feet high:
IN BENGHAZI, LIBYA Peering into a subterranean jail, Adil Gnaybor shuddered with fear. Rusted prison bars once covered with earth were now exposed, dug up by rebels who had discovered the secret labyrinth of cells. The space was too small for Gnaybor’s 5-foot frame, and a white tube provided the only source of air.
and he will comforted by the fact that it is next door to his own palace:
Thousands of Libyans have been arriving here at a complex of palatial homes, known as the Katiba El Fadil bu Omar, where Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi stayed during visits to this port city. It is here that Gaddafi also had an underground prison.
MSN have more detail, and he shouldn’t be shot down in cold blood as his forces did to demonstrators.
Or he could have a special personal prison built for himself in his compound at Bab Al-Azizia:
And, of course, we also recommend (hat/tip Charles Crawford) that all the secret police archives should be published without delay:
I previously offered some operational ideas for Doing Something about Libya.
One of them was this:
expert support for opening of all Libyan regime secret police and other archives asap – let the dirty chips lie where they fall (mainly in Moscow?)
The more I think about it, the more superb this idea becomes.
Consider the web of corruption and wickedness which Gaddafi’s oil money has spread round the planet in forty years.
The support for terrorism, including the PanAm bombing and the explosives sent to the IRA. The propping up of dirty regimes and so-called liberation movements across Africa. The illicit arms deals and sanctions-busting activities.
The bribes paid to other Arab leaders. The furtive links with KGB Moscow and Maoist Beijing, not to forget our good European chums in Paris and Rome and Sarajevo.
The infiltration of Islamist movements. The Libyan WMD programmes and the murky efforts made over many years to assemble them.
The sheer looting of the state’s oil treasure to fund all this trash.
What a prize it would be to get that lot out in the open.
Or, should the Great Revolutionary change his mind, he could stay at a certain ‘hotel‘ in the Hague:
So many choices. So little time.
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May 31, 2011 at 18:11 -
What anyone does in their own country is NOT OUR BUSINESS
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June 1, 2011 at 05:50 -
I wondered if someone was going to say it. Thanks, Jim. I thought I was alone!
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June 1, 2011 at 18:25 -
“Nothing to do with Us”
That is what neighbours used to say while women were raped and beaten in their own homes.It is more difficult than that. Our businesses in the UK and our Government UK Labour have been sucking up with him for years.
I really do not know what all the right answers to this problem are but if you want to leave a message clear and sure for future generations. Kill the guy. Yes it is complicated and we are very much to blame for much of the middle east chaos but a mad dog should be killed. The world will be better with one less mad man dictator.
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May 31, 2011 at 19:14 -
Barnsley. There’s alway Barnsley. Or Pontefract…
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May 31, 2011 at 19:44 -
Seems to me the europeans tried to shape Africa in it’s “democratic” mould in the last century-it did not work very well did it?
Now you are back again led by some hysterical do-gooder schoolboys who had hoped that the heavy lifting would once again be assumed by the USA. The USA did most of the job then handed over to the euros to complete the regime change they so earnestly desire for unknown reasons. A major problem arises when reality meets up with dreamers and your military capabilities don’t match up the boastful rhetoric. Result-disaster.
Ghaddafi is about as stable as the late Michael Jackson (who he seems to want to emulate) BUT in the great pantheon of African leaders he has actually achieved some worthwhile changes for his country and his people (yes I know that is selective and you have to belong to the “correct” tribe, you don’t think that does not occur in euro-land?) IF regime change is achieved, who will succeed him? Will it be the Muslim brotherhood or some iteration of Hamas, can we expect a superior democracy such as that which is on display in Syria?
The europeans have enough problems, you are fiscally and morally bankrupt you have no great ideas except to borrow more money than you generate through work for your public services, Africans have tested that socialist ideal to destruction, they are actually ahead of europe there. You have nothing to offer except $40billion of borrowed money to distribute to the great arab spring “democracies” that burn christian churches and kill their congregations.
I second Jim’s more succinct comment, lets remember that until very recently Libya and Syria occupied very senior positions within the UN human rights communities. How come one fell so quickly from grace but the other’s transgressions are ignored? You are being played for fools, which is very easy when the “leadership” of your country is barely more lucid than an hysterical schoolboy.
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May 31, 2011 at 20:00 -
Not a very nice man of course but we have no business whatsoever being involved there. The net result will probably be as said above, another Hamas/Brotherhood government which will be no “nicer” and just as or more hostile to the West.
Ghaddafi’s fatal mistake was attempting to sell oil priced in gold rather than dollars and thou shalt not endanger the USD world reserve currency status or bad stuff happens …
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May 31, 2011 at 20:16 -
@ Jiks,
“Ghaddafi’s fatal mistake was attempting to sell oil priced in gold rather than dollars”
I reckon this was the spark.
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May 31, 2011 at 20:22 -
Agree. Saddam wanted to sell Iraq’s oil in Euros and he got his as well.
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May 31, 2011 at 20:22 -
Maybe this other politician could spread some light on the Libyan regime…….
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May 31, 2011 at 20:24 -
June 1, 2011 at 00:07 -
One thing I don’t see in the article is any mention of America’s quest for oil and the maintenance of the almighty dollar.
Ghaddafi himself is, in many ways, one of the more enlightened arab leaders, but I suspect the author does not see that and would try his hardest to defend the take over by extremists as an ‘enlightenment’ in the same way that a lot of the left leaning luvies support hamas trying to take over Israel by force.
It would also appear that Ghaddafi upset the US by not accepting the blame for everything they accused him of, after all they are the ones that started the outside intervention even though they then drew back so that the UK and France could take the blame when it all goes pear shaped, as it will.
Finally, I have an old Chinese proverb that I just made up. He that believes more than a tenth of what appears in any of the worlds media is a bigger fool than he appears to be.
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June 1, 2011 at 00:26 -
Fascinating how we change our mind about these people and apply the ‘dictator test’ with one eye closed. Why have we never invaded Zimbabwe? Doesn’t Mugabe qualify under the criteria for one of the nasty, evil dictators of the decade?
And weren’t we sucking up to Ghaddafi 12-18 months ago? I seem to remember about a decade ago when the ‘civilised’ world turned on General Pinochet – the same ‘civilised’ world who had turned a blind eye to his practice of launching dissidents out of helicopters in exchange for intelligence on the Argies
Seems the lesson of history is that people never learn the lesson of history
Sorry Anna, but here’s some more bunny…
http://outspokenrabbit.blogspot.com/ -
June 1, 2011 at 03:58 -
I am popping this idea around the sites that I frequent. I am sorry if this post is not ‘on topic’.
On 29th May 2011, the Independent published a blatant, propaganda attack on Tobacco Companies. I must say immediately that I have no personal involvement with Tobacco Companies whatsoever other than buying cigarettes.
In the article, it was stated that a study by the Office of National Stats shows that more people are going to pubs. In fact, the study shows nothing of the sort. It shows only that, of the people surveyed, some said that they THINK THAT they go to pubs more often. Also, the same survey showed that women especially feel inclined to go to pubs less, as a result of the smoking ban. It is very obvious, therefore, that the findings of this survey in no way justify the claim that more people are going to pubs, which is what Tobacco Control claimed. In any case, pub closures affect the people in the immediate neighbourhood of that pub. Even if it were true that more pubs are opening than are closing, it does not mean that the opportunities for people to meet together are not, in a large part of our country, being decimated by Tobacco Control. On this basis, I have complained to the Press Commission about the misuse of the Office of Nat Stats statistics in this article published by the Independent. I claim that the Independent should ensure that the facts stated in the article are correct.When I found out about this article (via….sorry, I do not remember), I made various comments at the Independent – albeit rather late. But what is really important is that I decided to make a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. I have done so. I have complained about the misuse of the ONS statistics. I have complained that the Independent should check that the ONS statistics are being correctly interpreted. I have complained that the Independent has not checked the facts stated in this article (an article which is promoted by the Independent) before publication.
This thought then popped into my mind: how much more likely to succeed is a complaint to the Press Commission as compared with a comment on a newspaper article in the newspaper’s comments section? I asked this question elsewhere, and someone said, ” Should we not also be applying this idea to the Charities Commission (words to that effect)?”
I agree.
We must ask ourselves about the efficacy of complaints to the Press Complaints Commission and the Charities Commission. I propose that 100 complaints to those organisations are worth 10 000 comments in newspaper articles. I am therefore proposing that we make as many complaints as possible to these bodies. But, of course, the complaints must be real and genuine and factual. Do not make make complains based upon emotions (stinks, for example).
I believe (with no evidence whatsoever except gut feeling!) that organisations such as the Press Complaints Commission and the Charities Commission are the Achilles Heel of Tobacco Control and Alcohol Concern and other such special interest groups. Complaints to MPs and to Newspapers do not instigate a process, whereas complaints to commissions do. One could also complain to the Health and Safety Executive, it you can figure out how to do it.
There are thousands of us. If we all complain to the appropriate COMMISSION, sensibly, about what ASH et al are causing to be published, then ‘the authorities’ will be forced to take note. We must complain as often as possible and upon every subject where ‘freedom’ is being eroded.
I commend this idea to everyone.
As I said, I am going to spread this idea around. I hope that people do not mind. I hope that it bears fruit.
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June 1, 2011 at 04:47 -
Who the hell cares what the media says. We all know that Crazy Face the Mad Dog of the Maghreb has been oppressing and murdering Libyans since he helped himself to rule over them. Little wonder that the rebelion was so spontaneous and caught the old fool on the hop. If it wasn’t for a bit of help from NATO, he would have mercilessly crushed these people, who justly want rid of this megalomaniacal tyrant. US and NATO will no doubt get favoured access to Libyan sweet crude for giving the rebels a much needed hand.
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June 1, 2011 at 05:53 -
“If it wasn’t for a bit of help from NATO…”
I’m pretty sure that’s not what NATO was formed for.
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June 1, 2011 at 06:24 -
“treat each man to his just desert and who would escape a whipping.
Being nasty to leaders might well backfire on other leaders when they became unfashionable.
Some of the Uk’s recent commanders would be vulnerable as time goes by. -
June 1, 2011 at 07:18 -
I don’t like walking by and minding my own business. This clashes with Libertarian principles, I know.
I accept that many people interfere with other countries for their own reasons, and also that it easily goes horribly wrong.
But I need to reserve the right to support some international violence. Despite what experience has taught me.
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June 1, 2011 at 09:52 -
I’m inclined to agree, to an extent.
“All it takes for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
The big problem, of course, is working out when something needs to be done, and when it is best to leave well alone.
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June 1, 2011 at 17:39 -
So, when the loony left (or the permanently aggrieved muslims) get their shit together and organize public demonstrations which they manage to sustain at a level of aggression for a week, so that the police are forced to temporarily remand some of the more violent protestors pending charges, you will not object to foreign intervention?
A hundred or so cruise missiles taking out communication and early-warning facilities, airport runways and military installations? Of course the only military capable of this level of sophistication is the USA, so you don’t need to worry about France. Once this happens and social order breaks down and you are faced with marauding mobs instructed by their imams every Friday will you still support intervention?
Couldn’t happen? Remeber the launch codes on your nuclear weapons are jointly controlled by the USA, you are not a significant threat to world peace unlike Iran .
And if you think I am overly critical of yUK, let me assure you I am equally displeased that Canada is playing a role in this farcical comedy of errors.
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June 1, 2011 at 07:19 -
@Jim, @Julia ISTM that where we have an interest it can be our business – I sure hope someone would intervene here if we had a Civil War.
There’s a slight difference between Zimbabwe – landlocked country 5000 miles away a couple of ’00 miles from the coast, and Libya – where there’s a risk of hundreds of thousands of refugees just across the Med
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June 1, 2011 at 10:08 -
Of course S.A. does have precedent for harbouring ex-dictators. I wouldn’t shrug that possibility off if I were you.
Just saying.
Cheers
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June 1, 2011 at 12:55 -
Libya will end up with another dictator, just the name will change, and we will end up with a couple hundred thousand extra North Africans in these islands. Whose agenda is this?
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June 2, 2011 at 16:31 -
Ghaddafi is a day dreamer.I hope he understands that the door for a graceful exit is fast closing.He wants to be captured in his pants like Laurent Gbagbo.The rebels and NATO know it is only a matter of time before he finally capitulates.His soldiers know it does not make sense to continue to fight and die for a tyrant.The British and French should deploy those attack helicopters.
His only hope now is to hide behind the AU peace plan and sneek into exile somewhere.
Meanwhile i justify NATO’s increased bombardment of his forces until they finally melt away.Ghaddafi is finished.He just doesn’t want to accept the facts yet.
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