On Yer Ched, Evans!
The partisan reporting from all aspects of the media this morning, has resulted in headlines such as ‘Fury of women’s groups as footballer is cleared in retrial’. Football forums have disappeared under a deluge of derogatory comments regarding the sexual behaviour of the young girl.
The most pertinent fact regarding the introduction of new evidence into Ched Evans retrial has been – some would say deliberately – buried in a welter of comment designed to appeal to either the ‘he’s a rapist who got away with it’ or the ‘she’s a slapper who should be prosecuted’ readers of their various newspapers.
Had this been a straightforward case of a girl claiming to have been raped, I seriously doubt that the evidence would have been allowed. Rule 41, as it is known, would have precluded that.
However, in case you have forgotten, Ms ‘X’ has never, at any time, claimed to have been raped.
Ms X had gone out for a night drinking in her local God forsaken welsh town where nothing ever happens; she had woken in a hotel room, minus her handbag and purse, and unaware of how she came to be there. She thought, since she had not drunk more than her usual two large glasses of wine, four double vodkas and a sambuca shot, that perhaps this time her drink had been spiked. Unsurprisingly, she turned to the police for help in finding her handbag.
The police, quite reasonably, investigated the hotel room where she had woken up, and discovered that it had been rented for the night by a high profile footballer. They also discovered her handbag in a local kebab shop. She was examined by a Doctor, found not to have imbibed any of the well known rape drugs, though a quantity of cocaine and cannabis was discovered – and also the fact that she had had sex with more than one person in the previous 24 hours. She was unable to help the police with any of their investigations, because she simply had no memory of anything that had occurred since going to a kebab shop in the early hours of the morning.
To all those screeching this morning that this prosecution should never have been brought – what do you expect the police to do when faced with this set of circumstances? Ignore the facts? Is that what you would want if it was your daughter who had woken up in that hotel room?
They travelled to Sheffield and arrested the man who had rented the hotel room – Ched Evans. They asked him to explain himself and how she came to be there. He quite unwisely and without legal advice, told them that his friend, Clayton MacDonald, had been out drinking with him that evening, but had texted him from a kebab shop to say that ‘he had a bird’ and was going back to the hotel room. He went on to explain that they had both had sex with her, she gave every indication that she was a willing partner to this event, urging them to ‘go harder’ and continue ‘longer’.
To which the police response was a derisory ‘a likely story lads’. They charged both Clayton and Ched with rape, and asked a jury to decide whether she had given consent for the sexual activity that night, was in a fit state to give such consent or, whether – the important bit – she had behaved in such a way as to give Clayton and Ched the reasonable impression that she was so consenting.
The partisan commentators in the media do tend to overlook that consent is not simply a matter of whether ‘she said yes’.
So we have a case where the victim is not actually claiming to have been raped, but may have been. The jury had the benefit of video evidence which allowed them to form the impression that she was a willing partner to Clayton, but they had to surmise how likely it was that she had also given permission to Ched to have intercourse with her, but had no memory of the event.
The answer to that theoretical question rather depends on your own experience of sexual activity. In the event, the jury decided that it was unlikely that she had given such permission and Ched Evans duly went to prison as a ‘rapist’.
The pertinent part of the new evidence that was brought to the re-trial was that this was not the first time nor the only time that a bout of drinking on the part of this young lady had led her to suffer a total lapse of memory as to subsequent events. Whether, and even at 19 one can become ‘alcoholic’, that was as a result of alcoholic amnesia, or a mild form of epilepsy, a neurological condition, we simply don’t know. We do know that there were two witnesses able to attest to her suffering previous memory ‘blanks’ which had resulted in her behaving in an identical fashion and yet having no recall of what she had said or done.
That is evidence that would be accepted by any court, in say a case of driving whilst disqualified. It is known as automatism. Diabetics can be perfectly capable of driving a car across town, purchasing goods, appearing to be in full command of their senses, but not being responsible for their actions. It can, in specific circusmtances, be a defence to a criminal charge.
However, in this case, and only in this case, the ‘similar facts evidence’ concerned her behaviour after drinking sufficient to induce this state. It was, said the witnesses, of an identical sexual pattern to that freely described by Ched Evans on that car journey from Sheffield, before he had legal advice.
In plain English, it supported Ched Evans claim that she appeared to be an enthusiastic and consenting partner.
It was not ‘evidence introduced to trash the witnesses credibility’, nor was it ‘opening the flood gates to the time when women with a previous sexual history were deemed incapable of being raped’.
It doesn’t make her ‘a slapper’ – nor does it make Ched Evans ‘a rapist who got away with it’.
It makes her a very sad 19 year old, without too many prospects – she may well be a genius computer programmer or a world class violinist, but I suspect that a 19 year old in boring Rhuddlan who has taken to drinking more than is good for her and ending up in a kebab shop at 4am, possibly doesn’t have a fantastic job awaiting her at 9am.
She has been so comprehensively vilified and identified on social media that the police were forced to rehouse her in a different town – so she is now a sad 19 year old with a drinking habit, no immediate friends she can rely on, nor surrounding family, alone in a strange town. It seems the only ‘friend’ to whom she could turn, in a series of childish and unwise tweets concerning her intentions for the compensation she got as a result of being named and shamed, was a committed rape campaigner, Guardian columnist, feminist, and Corbyn supporter calling herself Jean Hatchett. Not too much encouragement to get on top of her problems is it?
Prosecuted? Why? For what? For telling the truth?
As for Ched Evans, he has spent two and a half years in prison for a sexual adventure which has now been shown not to have comprised a criminal act. He has lost his job, been out of training for five years, and owes his freedom to the steadfast financial and emotional support of his fiancee and her wealthy father. There goes a recipe for a healthy and equal relationship in the future….
It isn’t the fault of North Wales police that these three young people had their lives ruined and reputations trashed. They merely presented the inconclusive evidence they had to the Crown Prosecution Service.
We have a Crown Prosecution Service headed by a woman who has an unhealthy, bordering on obsessive, interest in prosecuting those with either fame or fortune in respect of their sexual behaviour. The CPS have proved before now that even if Ms ‘X’ had refused to take any part in the prosecution, they could and would proceed with it.
The moment the CPS knew that a famous footballer was involved – the fate of all three parties, Clayton, Ched and Ms ‘X’ was sealed. Now they are hostages to endless social media arguments and petitions.
I feel extraordinarily sorry for all three of them. Three lives went down the drain in Rhuddlan that night.
- Alexander Baron
October 15, 2016 at 11:08 am -
I don’t have a daughter but if I did she would not take cannabis or cocaine, she would not drink like a fish, and she would not go back to an hotel room with a footballer for sex.
If I had a son, he wouldn’t go “two’s up” with another bloke, nor would he go with scruff off the street.
It’s difficult to feel sorry for Evans but hopefully his newfound humility will endure for the rest of his life.
- Bandini
October 15, 2016 at 11:24 am -
It sounds like you’d be keeping those imaginary kids in a cage, Alexander!
- dearieme
October 15, 2016 at 11:25 am -
What on earth makes you so certain? Some people just lose on the genetic lottery, you know, and their upbringing matters scarcely at all.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 12:09 pm -
If I had a son, he wouldn’t go “two’s up” with another bloke, nor would he go with scruff off the street.
Are you actually male? I ask because you seem to have forgotten, if male you be, how it is to be young and have a semi permanent erection 24/7.
Sure we all hope our sons will make wise choices…I found saying things like ‘if you wouldn’t trust her to program the VCR don’t trust her to have taken The Pill in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions!’ or, as we live in Norfolk, ‘remember your Dad went to the same parties her parents did’ tended to help…but only ‘tended’. One son was arrested for rape at age 14, another son fathered a child on an underage girl, just so you don’t think i am setting myself up as some parental guru.- Mr Ecks
October 15, 2016 at 1:02 pm -
You can have a sex life without being compelled to fuck whatever is going.
Most people make it through adolescence without fathering a child/ getting up the duff.
This girls life seems to have consisted in getting pissed/drugged into amnesia and anything goes after that. That is a shame but still a choice. The guilty party is the Marxian feminist controlled CPS gang who have used this girl to serve the agenda of man-hating cultural Marxism. And damaged everybody except themselves.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 2:11 pm -
You can have a sex life without being compelled to fuck whatever is going.
and I’m sure cold showers, National Service & long walks in the countryside help…for some. My personal feeling is that most young men-not all I grant you but most-would mount anyone (Norfolk ‘anything’) willing. As Grandma Dwarf used to say “you don’t look at the mantelpiece..’ (Grandma Dwarf had been educated and then went into ‘service’ for a ‘Lady’ but she never forgot the simple homespun truths of a ruralshire childhood).
- Mrs Grimble
October 15, 2016 at 9:06 pm -
You can have a sex life without being compelled to fuck whatever is going.
Not when you’re a teenager, you can’t. I never had underage sex, but once I discovered sex I was at it like the proverbial! While I was living at home, I would regularly smuggle my boyfriend into the house and up to my bedroom whilst my parents were watching TV downstairs, before smuggling him out a busy hour later. (His landlady wouldn’t let him have women in his room.) And I often got roaring drunk and woke up next to somebody quite unsuitable. I tried a few drugs but could take them or leave them – seems I’m lucky enough not to have an addictive personality. Never tried heroin, I saw enough of junkies and their squalid lives while I was living in squats to be put right off it.
And this was back in the late 60s/early 70s, in London. There were jobs available for all, housing was cheap or free, you could live on a few quid a week. I was able to get out of the squatting/homeless life pretty easily and become a (nearly) respectable member of society! Things aren’t so easy today and people like Miss X and her mates have my sympathy.- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 1:45 am -
I was able to get out of the squatting/homeless life pretty easily and become a (nearly) respectable member of society!
as a child of Thatcher i would say that for my ‘generation’ living in a squat/being homeless was almost de rigour if one wanted to attain ‘respectability’ in later years…as was being vegetarian and pretending to like TVP stewed in Merrydown.They say if you can remember Woodstock then you weren’t there. I get a similar feeling when i hear that yet another acquaintance squatted in Islington or Camden. Were there really that many empty houses back then? How was anyone capable of walking down Roman Way through the dense miasma of Moroccan Black fumes, garlic, Old Holborn and rutting sweat?
- tdf
October 16, 2016 at 2:10 am -
“Were there really that many empty houses back then?”
It’s possible. Logical even. Consider the number of war widows. Total British military casualties in WW2 were 383,700. Often, I would guess, their widows would not have had direct descendants. By the 1960s and 1970s, presumably, they were starting to dying off, or for those who had kids, unable to afford the upkeep of a home in Islington or Camden etc.
- Peter Raite
October 16, 2016 at 8:46 am -
To be honest there are plenty of “empty” houses/other premises these days, but now the law is more on the side of the owners than the squatters. The very phenomenon of “beds in sheds” and shanty towns under elevated motorway junctions can be seen as displacement. Twenty or thirty years ago the people who live in them would have been living in the sort of squats or slum houses of multiple occupation of the 1960s-1980s.
- Mr Wray
October 19, 2016 at 10:51 am -
I must have been at Woodstock then as I cannot remember being there.
- tdf
- windsock
October 16, 2016 at 6:59 am -
Lovely comment, Mrs Grimble
- The Blocked Dwarf
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Mr Ecks
- Mike Hunt
October 15, 2016 at 1:27 pm -
You would hope your daughter might not turn out like that , but sadly some do. I have seen young women who have come from nice affluent back grounds with loving parents get involved in heroin and end up in a dire state—it can and does happen
- Kevin Monk
October 16, 2016 at 8:58 pm -
You’ve obviously never read Sex at Dawn. There’s a reason why humans have relatively large testicles. That reason is sperm competition. If porn server stats are anything to go by, they’ll be many people writing their condescensions one handed.
- Bandini
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 11:27 am -
I also feel sorry for Mrs Ched, and their child. She has been alternately vilified as a ‘doormat’ or sanctified/ Tammy Wynette’d on social media. Two more lives that were f***ked after that night….or went ‘down the drain’ as the Landlady more genteelly expressed it.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 11:35 am -
I am mystified how our Great British legal system can hold a woman to have been too intoxicated to have given consent (ie made a moral decision) yet being drunk as a Lord does not, unlike in other more civilised judiciaries, mitigate an offence? This one is ‘personal’ because I would probably still be inside if I hadn’t have been convicted of ‘Getting RatArsed With Malicious Aforethought To Commit A Capital Offence’ but instead with a couple of counts of attempted murder….and some ‘small change’.
Are we saying that a woman who commits a crime drunk as a skank is fully responsible for her decision to break the law but a tipsy teenageress is not capable of choosing to have her hymen broken?
- Bandini
October 15, 2016 at 12:16 pm -
Being drunk can mean a murder charge is reduced to one of manslaughter, but this mitigation only seems to work in one direction. It’s a strange anomoly, particularly when we remember the role alcohol plays in the great majority (I would guess) of first sexual encounters.
- Bandini
October 15, 2016 at 12:59 pm -
“As murder is a crime of specific intent, if the defendant cannot show diminished responsibility from brain damage caused by alcohol, if he was so drunk or drugged at the time of the killing as to be unable to form the intent to kill, or cause grievous bodily harm, he will be acquitted of murder. However he is still liable to be convicted of unlawful act manslaughter…”
Planning on killing someone? Have a tankful first (or immediately after…) and watch those responsibilities diminish before your very eyes! (And avoid that pesky mandatory life-sentence that comes with a conviction for murder!)
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/
- Eric
October 16, 2016 at 1:16 am -
We never hear what happens when a male is very drunk and goes to bed with a female who is drunk and both wake up in the morning with that “oh dear” feeling as either one gets hurriedly dressed and flees with a quick goodbye.
Should one party decide they were raped who is guilty?. If they were both drunk could either one claim they were both too drunk to give consent and therefor both are victims & rapists at the same time or does a male’s drunken antics take precedent and he is regarded as the offender?
(not unlike those US ‘sexting’ cases where 2 teens send each other their nude pics and both can be arrested and treated as creators of child abuse images but also victims at the same time).The Feminazi movement seems to be portraying women always as vulnerable creatures ignoring the rallying cries of Helen Reddy’s ‘I Am Woman’ (hear me roar).
Society has become so over-governed and politicians seem determined to legislate every aspect of human behaviour ignoring that everybody has frailties and failings, and always have, that it is almost impossible not to break some law.- Mr Wray
October 19, 2016 at 10:58 am -
It’s about fear. Do as you are told or get accused. ‘Slebs are used as examples to prove that if they can be accused and convicted then so can anyone else.
- Tommy K
October 19, 2016 at 3:26 pm -
You are right, Mr Wray. Cliff Richard, for example, hasn’t been charged but all the publicity surrounding the search of his house has ensured that we are all aware how vulnerable we are to being similarly abused by the people who profess to protect us.
Notwithstanding the risibility of the notion that there is likely to be evidence on someone’s PC of an offence committed decades before the PC was invented, the police are most unlikely to be refused a search warrant by their local magistrate. On the flimsiest of excuses they are able to remove any device capable of storing an electronic file from your possession. They are then able to explore every tiny scrap of information – financial, private correspondence, family photos, business information – that happens to be there. And you may never get that private and personal material back again. It can happen to any of us – even the useful idiots who say they have nothing to hide so nothing to fear.
- Tommy K
- Mr Wray
- Bandini
- Bandini
- Hadleigh Fan
October 15, 2016 at 11:43 am -
The lesson to learn is never say anything to the Police or a Journalist without a lawyer present. TheJournalist wants a story, even if they have to invent it, and the Policeman wants evidence …
In this case, there doesn’t actually seem to have been a crime. Surely, in the absence of a complaint, wasn’t that obvious from the outset?
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 11:59 am -
Surely, in the absence of a complaint, wasn’t that obvious from the outset?
As the more common side effect of the so-called ‘date rape’ drugs is amnesia, it behoves the police investigate even without a complaint being made if there is evidence an offence occurred and a vagina full of 2 different flavours of seminal fluid is solid evidence that sex took place (Unless the coppers found a turkey baster in her handbag?) . Just because a victim has no memory of a crime taking place is no Get Out Of Jail Free card, otherwise every mugger would start roofing his victims at knifepoint (yes I’m being silly but you get the point?).
- Hadleigh Fan
October 15, 2016 at 3:27 pm -
I have reached a grand old age without discovering what the ‘flavour’ of seminal fluid is, let alone that there are two or more of them. Strawberry and peppermint, perhaps? An idea I should submit to Ben & Jerry, but won’t, because they are owned by Unilever. Seriously, when I was reading about the case some years ago I understood that neither ejaculated, and so there was actually negligible forensic evidence to go on, and the only proof that both had entered her was their say-so, which made the case all the more weird. .
Given the ‘previous’ of the young woman in question, I doubt greatly whether or not one or two footballers’ ejaculates (if they happened) were capable of giving her a ‘vagina full’. She wakes up with no recollection of what happened? Proves they weren’t ‘Premier League’ material, doesn’t it?
That kebab shop, open at 4am, Maybe they have a special sauce. Urban legend has it that you can find it in many a burger …
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 4:46 pm -
My Ben&Jerried vagina quip was based on She was examined by a Doctor, found ….. also the fact that she had had sex with more than one person in the previous 24 hours. . No idea if the two men wore condoms….one can only hope…there being quite enough of the Welsh as it is.
- leady
October 17, 2016 at 10:57 am -
Neither flavours were cheds though, meaning he was on thirds…
- leady
- Eric
October 16, 2016 at 1:23 am -
There also seems to be a complete absence of personal responsibility such as if you go out and get plastered even if it’s just falling over in your own vomit and a photographer happens to be around and you end up in a tabloid as an example of Britain’s drunken yoof.
But to mention anything like that or advise a female to not walk down dark alleyways in a mini-skirt in case a lurking man may get the wrong idea brings fierce condemnation from the Feminazis who have some bizarre notion that one day there will be this Perfect Society where everybody behaves in a certain prescribed manner , there will be no men with evil intent and so on.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Hadleigh Fan
- richard
October 15, 2016 at 1:12 pm -
That is indeed the first and most important lesson. The police come right out and say it – Anything – Anything! – you say may be used in evidence.
The only defence in interrogation is persistent silence because the interrogator is a) an expert whom it is impossible to mislead or outfox
and b) is there solely, as you say, to collect evidence to put before the courts. Even an off-the-cuff comment by an innocent party can be damning in court. “I never liked that bastard and I’m glad he’s dead”. Motive, eh? That remark might make the CPS proceed with prosecution, who knows, but it wouldn’t help whoever said it.
If they have enough evidence to charge you then they will do so whether or not you remain silent. The race begins when you are arrested; it’s between the police who want you to talk, and your solicitor who will hopefully arrive in time to tell you not to do so. So say nowt.
And be careful of women.- Thomas Fuller
October 16, 2016 at 9:53 am
- Thomas Fuller
- Peter Raite
October 16, 2016 at 8:51 am -
Mrs R is pregnant at the moment. On being told the happy news, my older sister’s sage advice was: “never ever say anything – even in jest – to a midwife or health visitor that might in the slightest possible way be taken by them as an indicator of something that needs investigating.”
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 8:59 am -
Congratulations
- Major Bonkers
October 16, 2016 at 6:08 pm -
That’s good advice.
My neighbour’s son was being cheeky one Sunday lunch, so he barged his shoulder with his hip while the boy was sitting down. After lunch, the boy was whining about how much it hurt, so they took him to the local hospital. There was nothing wrong, but the doctor they saw told them he didn’t believe the story and a few days later the local social workers visited the family home – unannounced – on suspicion of child abuse.
In my own case, my son told his teacher that I smacked him. I was called in to meeting with the deputy headmaster and some mad Australian woman. Interestingly, they initially refused to tell me what they wanted to talk to me about, so I told them I was not attending unless they provided me with an agenda. We suspect you of child abuse came back the answer. Luckily, I have a great friend who is a barrister who I called upon to help. While I stood my ground – it is legal to smack a child, so long as you do not leave a mark – she was much more conciliatory and stroked their egos, and a couple of days later I got a letter saying that they were not taking the matter further.
My best advice is: (1) always be very suspicious in any dealings with officialdom in respect of your child. Doctors and teachers are the new ‘coppers’ narks’. The worst possible person to deal with is some newly-trained doctor or teacher without a child of their own. (2) Never, ever, go into a meeting without knowing what it is about. That’s not unreasonable in any case. If something is suddenly raised which you have not been forewarned about, refuse to discuss it on the grounds that you are being ambushed, and the matter is outside the agenda. (3) Get a lawyer friend, or at least someone who is articulate, to come and make your case with you; don’t allow yourself to be one person in a room with three or four ‘opposing counsel’.
- Budvar
October 16, 2016 at 9:47 pm -
Oh and always tape the interview for your records. That always puts them on the back foot, and take no notice of their “It’s not our policy/it’s not allowed/this is private property”. If it’s a formal interview, then quote PACE, if it’s informal, then you don’t even need to be there. Having on tape them refusing to go ahead with the interview, puts the onus on them, so they can’t then take the line that you’re being “Uncooperative”..
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 10:31 pm -
A tactic Steve & Zaphod from Nothing2Declare used to great effect (and me too). The effect a dictaphone can have on Customs Officers, Benefits Investigators, Police and anyone who imagines themselves above the law is interesting, The words ‘holy water’ and ‘daylight’ spring to mind.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Budvar
- Major Bonkers
- The Blocked Dwarf
- The Blocked Dwarf
- John Marsh
October 15, 2016 at 11:45 am -
Thanks Anna well presented and I am really glad you both challenged the CPS to consider the wider implications of these cases in their “correct presuit for good standards” that they really need to consider all the pieces of the puzzle, and real people with real problems and real feelings are involved, and you know I or others hve not always been sensible, nor maintained been sensible. Perhaps in these borderline wild type cases help support and counselling is what is needed. As to Alexander Baron, I, sir share your “ideals” but in the end I found individuals have a mind of their own (Or at least think they do) much to my own heartache. Life just does not often go as hoped.
- Ho Hum
October 15, 2016 at 12:31 pm -
It really is depressing to hear people say that a jury shouldn’t be allowed to hear evidence that there might have been no crime committed. Talk about inverse prejudice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37666228
- John P Meadows
October 15, 2016 at 5:41 pm -
‘Supt Jo Williams of North Wales police said: “We are aware that once again the victim has been named on social media.
We would remind people that it is a criminal offence under Section 5 of the Sexual Offences Amendments Act to do so, and that the victim has the right to life long anonymity.’It is concerning that Ms Williams did not emphasise that the young lady in question (I do not know her name, nor do I wish to) was a victim of on line abuse and intimidation, not rape. I also wonder, in that case, whether Sec5, SOAA is therefore relevant.
On a more general point; I was under the impression that for a conviction to be deemed ‘safe’ two conditions had to be met. That there was intent to commit the crime (“mens rea”) and that the unlawful act actually took place (“actus reus”). It seems increasingly common for what was once seen as an exception (“strict liability” – which only applies to the “mens rea” in any case) to become the norm.
Strict liability is meant only to determine when someone failed to consider the possibility of an unlawful act or where the intent is non-negotiable – as I understand it. This means any man finding they have the opportunity of some unexpected late night (or early morning) nookie, now runs the risk of what is effectively being charged with sexual negligence (unintentional rape). Paradoxically, if such a description was used in this case, the hysteria and vitriol levelled at either of the main protagonists in this story may (I say; may) have been mollified. As would, I guess, the original sentence.
- Ho Hum
October 15, 2016 at 8:41 pm -
Everything you have written may well be true. I am happy that, within the law as it stands, Ms Williams pursues anyone who named the lady involved to the ends of the earth.
But none of that is the real point. I was more concerned that, if indeed the reports on what she has said are accurate – and the media are not without form on that sort of thing – someone who is a barrister, currently one of our Police and Crime Commissioners, and who was formerly Solicitor General for England and Wales, is so ignorant of what the law actually seems to be, is apparently all too willing to disseminate a tainted version of that for the great unwashed.
If that is so, something stinks, to the extent that it might even be more rotten than anything to be found in the state of Denmark.
- Eric
October 16, 2016 at 1:24 am -
There also seems to be a complete absence of personal responsibility such as if you go out and get plastered even if it’s just falling over in your own vomit and a photographer happens to be around and you end up in a tabloid as an example of Britain’s drunken yoof.
But to mention anything like that or advise a female to not walk down dark alleyways in a mini-skirt in case a lurking man may get the wrong idea brings fierce condemnation from the Feminazis who have some bizarre notion that one day there will be this Perfect Society where everybody behaves in a certain prescribed manner , there will be no men with evil intent and so on.
- tdf
October 16, 2016 at 1:33 am -
@Eric
I don’t agree.
The ‘Britain’s drunken yoof’ meme is essentially a moral panic, fostered by the openly woman-hating Daily Mail.
The Brits ran an empire floated on booze. The upper classes and the working classes understand this. The Daily Mail is a bourgeois middle class rag that despises anyone having fun.
” The neighborhood that I live in
I’ve always seen as home
At certain times of the evening
It’s like a no-go zone
Got cash in my pocket to last the weekend (ba ba ba ba)
And I’ve got features I quite like and don’t mind keeping
But still I walk the side streets home
Even when I’m on my own
If I let myself believe all the bad press and horror stories
I wouldn’t set a foot outside
You say I live in a bubble
I find a bubble’s best
At a faint whiff of trouble
Just turn and head due west”- Major Bonkers
October 16, 2016 at 6:43 pm -
I rather like the ‘Daily Mail’ – things have reached a pretty pass when it is better newspaper than the ‘The Daily Tabloidgraph’, but there it is. It covered itself in glory when it named Steven Lawrence’s killers. Mind you, when I find myself agreeing with everything that Peter Hitchens writes, I do feel that lunacy is clutching at my shoulder.
As for being woman hating, I’m not sure that is the case: from Teresa May to Kim Kardashian, it accords all of them space.
It has become a rather boring way of parading one’s bien pensant opinions to say that one disapproves of the Mail. Every time I watch or listen to some right-on ‘comedians’ on the BBC, there they are, attempting to give it a good kicking. Yawn. I suppose it is the politically correct butt of jokes, in the same way that Irishmen, nig-nogs, and ‘spazes’ used to be when I was growing up.
‘The Guardian’, on the other hand, seems composed of completely deranged lunatics, led by its harridan-in-chief. Oh what fun it is to read La Toynbee’s jeremiads against Brexit, luckily still available on the Guardian’s web-site; I particularly enjoy the one headlined: ‘On Friday I’ll get my country back. Britain will vote remain’. But Polly isn’t really a democrat at all, unless, Stalin-like, you happen to agree with her half-witted opinions. Her very next op-ed article after the referendum result is headlined: ‘This referendum puts voting reform right back at the top of the agenda’. Of course. Democracy is all very well and good, but if it delivers the result that I disagree with then it must be ‘reformed’: I’m not wrong – everyone else is!
- Major Bonkers
- tdf
- Ho Hum
- John P Meadows
- Mike Hunt
October 15, 2016 at 1:46 pm -
A sad case and on reflection did the police achieve anything but chaos in people’s lives. In days gone by the girl might have woken up with a hangover and thought last night wasn’t such a good night and learnt from the experience. Sadly the actions by the police saw her vilified on social media, having to go through the stress of court , police interviews and finally having to change her identity and move away from home town.
So all in all not a good outcome for the girl, I hope in years time she can get over this. As for Ched he wasn’t that much older than her and made a bad drunken choice and has paid the price for this . Young drunk people do make mistakes! I wonder whether a better approach to this case might have been Ched cautioned about his actions, the girl spoken to by a nice Wpc and told to not drink so much and stay of the drugs, to be more aware of situations that she was getting into.
In my experience drunk women sometimes do want sex and will initiate it ,being a gentleman I have said no unless it’s the wife as she is fair game - Doonhamer
October 15, 2016 at 2:36 pm -
Once again, thank you Mistress Raccoon for the only comment/ report on this business that makes sense.
As always, this is how journalism should be done
As Dave Allan used to say, “May your God go with you.” - The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 3:34 pm -
Once again, thank you Mistress Raccoon for the only comment/ report on this business that makes sense.
The Secret Barrister also has an article that repays reading https://thesecretbarrister.com/ , agree or not with him he clearly expounds on the law of it all.
- Sean Coleman
October 15, 2016 at 9:12 pm -
That Secret Barrister article is informative. But he says this: ‘[The Section 41 provisions] “are designed to counter the myths that ‘unchaste women are more likely to consent and less worthy of belief.’” I don’t know if those are his own beliefs, or his description of what the law says, or even a quote from someone or something, but it is common sense that this is not a myth. In case the sky breaks over me (and Anna’s blog), I’m only saying…
I agree with your estimation of Anna’s abilities by the way. I’m just saying what seems obvious to me at this moment in time in my legally unschooled little way.
- Sean Coleman
October 16, 2016 at 4:29 pm -
The second of the two ‘myths’ (that ‘unchaste women’ (and men) are ‘less worthy of belief’) is definitely arguable. I think it is probably true on the whole. But the first (that ‘they are more likely to consent) is surely no different from saying that a drinker is more likely to accept a drink than a teetotaller. If there is a myth it is the claim that this is a myth.
- windsock
October 16, 2016 at 8:06 pm -
Definitely 100 per cent disagree. I was a happily actively slut when I was a younger man. But times have changed
However, when I was happy being a slut, with a man I met one night in a bar who made his intentions clear, that didn’t mean that I was giving consent to his three friends to hold me down and take turns, which they did while I struggled, and neither do I think I should be dis-believed, because , you know what?, it really happened. and neither should I be told I was “asking for it.”
I could go on a rant about behaviour not equaling personality or morality, but I know you would only argue, so just be aware, even when a slut, you can exercise choice.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 8:31 pm -
*wishes he could find words that would express his sympathy, but as always, when it is really important to me, I go all “I am heavy of mouth and heavy of tongue” * So desperately sorry to hear that and I can only hope you tracked down the chicken raping bastards and gelded them with a blunt knife before reaming them with a broken bottle dipped in curare…at least in your imagination if not in deed (and if you ever need someone to hold your coat and help dispose bodies the Landlady has my number under ‘Waste Removal Man’).
- windsock
October 16, 2016 at 8:48 pm -
Thank you. It’s not a piece of my history I tell often, but, when relevant, I am not ashamed about it. Your support is appreciated.l
- windsock
- Sean Coleman
October 17, 2016 at 7:50 pm -
windsock
I’m sorry this happened to you, but you are right, I would only argue (if I had the time and inclination) and neither of us would change our mind.
As I said above, this myth (out of the two the Barrister mentioned) is definitely arguable. The other myth (consent) is not: someone who has already had sex 10.000 times is more likely to consent than a virgin. The interesting question is how the Barrister arrived at this judgement.
I strongly suspect a promiscuous lifestyle makes it more likely that a person will suffer from crime. I also suspect (albeit more hesitantly, and excepting yourself) that he or she may be more likely to abandon restraint and commit a crime and to lie about it afterwards.
- tdf
October 17, 2016 at 8:10 pm -
“I strongly suspect a promiscuous lifestyle makes it more likely that a person will suffer from crime. ”
By that argument, all the gay Catholic seminiarians and priests (roughly 50% in recent decades, at a guess, granted not all of the 50% are necessarily promiscous) must statistically suffer from high rates of crime!
Can you present that some proof that this is, in fact, the case?
- Sean Coleman
October 18, 2016 at 8:11 pm -
‘Catholic seminarians’
I thought we all had to say ‘Roman Catholic’ now.
‘Statistically’
Words from my comments above: arguable, probably, on the whole, suspect, hesitantly.
But you want statistics anyway. Sure, but which ones to choose? The beardy academic liberal statistics will all be on your side. These will be cited and referenced on Wikipedia, the encyclopaedia that gives you the weight of the Leaning Tower of Pisa in metric tonnes and documents the legend of Jimmy Savile. Then there are the other beardies, the white-coated ones with science PhDs and pony tails. But these are too busy programming computers to supply statistics to prove global warming to bother with the likes of us. Or I could do the proverbial ten-second trawl and get any statistics I like from the World Wide Web (aka Ripley’s Believe It Or Not).
- tdf
October 18, 2016 at 11:48 pm -
@Sean
Ok.
Did you see Peter Hitchens’ interview with Laura Perrins on the “Conservative Woman” blog? I thought it was rather good.
- tdf
- Sean Coleman
- windsock
October 18, 2016 at 8:31 am -
“I strongly suspect a promiscuous lifestyle makes it more likely that a person will suffer from crime” – yes. If you bring people who are one stage up from strangers into your home, don’t be surprised if they nick your wallet, cards, phone or camera etc.
“I also suspect (albeit more hesitantly, and excepting yourself) that he or she may be more likely to abandon restraint and commit a crime and to lie about it afterwards” Unless you have statistics, I’d say bollocks. Maybe if people are made to feel like lesser beings because they are judged on their promiscuity, they may seek to improve self-esteem through what might be called bad behaviour, but crime? Nah.
- tdf
- The Blocked Dwarf
- windsock
- Sean Coleman
- JuliaM
October 16, 2016 at 7:44 am -
The last myth in that list is especially disheartening.
- Sean Coleman
- JimBob McGinty
October 15, 2016 at 3:42 pm -
There’s no situation so bad it can’t be made worse by the police!
As an aside, what an unpleasant sexist gobshite that Jean Hatchet is. So many words, so little said. Does she realise her piss and wind does no women any favours at all? Ugh
- Tommy K
October 16, 2016 at 5:56 pm -
“There’s no situation so bad it can’t be made worse by the police!”
Never a truer word spoken.
In this case, it seems a girl reported a missing handbag and they created a rape case! Why did they do that? Who has gained? Certainly not the supposed victim, who has suffered as well as Ched Evans.Of course it helped numerous cops, journalists and lawyers pay their mortgages so maybe that’s OK then.
The relationship between the police and the CPS is unhealthy. They seem happy to keep themselves employed digging up dirt knowing that at the end of it they wash their hands. If the CPS is gullible enough to bring an unnecessary prosecution the police deny all responsibility. After all, they only loaded a gun and passed to the CPS along with an easy target: it’s not their fault some spiteful zealot pulled the trigger.
- Tommy K
- Evian Walters
October 15, 2016 at 4:01 pm -
Where did you learn that the girl in question had contacted Jean Hatchet?
- Rob
October 15, 2016 at 4:11 pm -
Actually, it may have been Evans’ unwise unrepresented comments which saved him, as in admitting to consensual sex he provided detail, then otherwise unknown to him, and subsequently corroborated. A lawyer would have advised him to no comment, and the evidence from previous partners would not have been sufficiently relevant to be admitted.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 15, 2016 at 4:41 pm -
*wishes he had had that insight* You’re probably bang on the money there (and not just because the Landlady agrees with you). Kicking myself for missing that one.
- Graham
October 15, 2016 at 6:38 pm -
‘Saved him’ as in ‘didn’t save him but as it turned out probably should have done’.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- John P Meadows
October 15, 2016 at 6:18 pm -
Thanks Anna,
A dia/tribe of straw men. That was my impression on reading through the list of “Don’ts” in the Jean Hatchett response you linked to.
However, I had to agree with something she wrote near the end of her… er, piece; “It makes us [women] terrifying and beautiful”.
She must have been thinking about you Anna.
- tdf
October 15, 2016 at 7:21 pm -
“Ms X had gone out for a night drinking in her local God forsaken welsh town where nothing ever happens…”
Many young people, male and female, spend Friday nights like this. The only slightly exceptional part was ending up in a hotel room with the footballer.
“Whether, and even at 19 one can become ‘alcoholic’, that was as a result of alcoholic amnesia, or a mild form of epilepsy, a neurological condition, we simply don’t know.”
Maybe some will be shocked by this but I first experienced an alcohol blackout (caused by foolishly drinking six pints in quick succession after a length period of abstinence) at the age of nineteen.
- Sean Coleman
October 15, 2016 at 8:46 pm -
I haven’t followed the case at all, even less the reaction to the verdict. I expect that the overwhelming majority reaction of the press (at least the broadsheet papers – what Hitchens calls the Unpopular Press), perhaps even the unanimous reaction, was cautious, if not critical (someone will correct me if I am wrong). Positive reaction to the righting of a miscarriage of justice will, I also imagine, have been confined to general blogs, including ‘football blogs’ (something I have never read – the closest I have come to those is reading the expected sanctimonious condemnation on YouTube of England supporters for getting beaten up by Russian hooligans). The equivalence is that of an elephant and a flea.
I am doubtlessly betraying gross ignorance but I thought the fresh evidence here was that the claimant had behaved like this before more than once, not that she had had memory lapses. Did she have memory lapses? As I said, I don’t know. I you drink enough you won’t remember what you have done. And as for diabetes I remember a good friend of mine at school, who got type one diabetes when he was about sixteen, telling me once that his grandfather (who was Dutch) used to call him ‘chiroog’ (surgeon). I mentioned this to him a couple of months later and didn’t know what I was talking about.
Section 41 is surely a bad piece of law. Should they also make it illegal to disclose if a claimant has a previous history of deceit or fantasy? (This was the case with the main witness in the infamous Nora Wall case. Wall’s case was quashed after the witness gave a named newspaper interview where she had claimed that she had been raped by a black man in Leicester Square. A Kilkenny businessman recognized the name as she had made allegations about him too. As it turns out, she had been classified as an unreliable witness but the DPP had somehow forgotten this, but I am straying into Richard Webster territory here.)
I had been taken aback and disgusted by the social media-instigated (as usual) witch hunt of Evans following his conviction. It makes one’s heart sink to see so many people so gleeful in throwing around the ‘rapist’ description because they could. I looked up his website, looked at its video evidence and the other allegations (which I assume can’t be repeated) and signed the petition. Every time he tried to sign for a League club social media pressure was brought to bear to stop it. In the end he had an offer to play abroad but the probation service wouldn’t let him. I thought their duties included helping offenders to get back into a normal working life again. As the saying goes, you couldn’t make it up. And (if memory serves) there was the usual sanctimony (have I used this word three times? I hope so) that he hadn’t shown contrition. I try not to swear but FFS.
- tdf
October 15, 2016 at 9:38 pm -
@Sean
Nora Wall was criticised in the Ryan Commission report (you know, the one you haven’t read) , though she was certainly innocent of rape.
- Sean Coleman
October 15, 2016 at 11:54 pm -
I read enough of it to learn that the accusations and admission that one boy was forced to *eat* his own excrement isn’t in it. The claim is that he was made to lick it off his boots or shoes.
http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/01-07.php
“… but what is admitted in the statements made by Br Olivier is that he told the boy to lick the excrement from his shoes, and he did so. The Brother, in his statement to the Gardaí, said that he was shocked when the boy did this and told him to stop: ‘I only said it out of frustration. I didn’t mean him to do it.’”
I wasn’t entirely surprised to learn this, seeing as embellishing the truth is a recurring theme in all the myths and legends associated with Savilisation.
What was it you said, a few weeks, when you were wetting yourself after I told you I hadn’t read the Ryan Report. “Accuracy is very important to me.” Or something like that.
And now it turns out that the same Report has criticized Nora Wall. Did you know that the Smith Report criticized Jimmy Savile? Knock me down with a feather!
- tdf
October 16, 2016 at 12:30 am -
I was relying on memory. The substance of my recollection from reading the report was accurate.
I’m glad that you have started to read the report, but sadly I cannot say that I am confident that it will change your bizarre views.
Nora Wall is Sr Callida in the Commission’s report. She certainly wasn’t the worst of them, but the report criticises her for drinking on the job and other matters.
- Sean Coleman
October 16, 2016 at 4:24 pm -
tdf
‘The substance of my recollection from reading the report was accurate.’
I don’t think so. There is a world of difference between evil brothers forcing innocent, defenceless children to eat their own excrement and what I quote above. I wrote at the time that the story (which I had never heard before) sounded definitely dodgy and this is how it always seems to turn out with all of Savilisation’s wild stories. My simple rule of thumb is that if a report sounds unbelievable it is because it never happened. Seems to work every time. The only exception applies to the witch hunters. How can seemingly intelligent and educated people be taken in by this nonsense? Yet they are, time and again.
While reading Brother Olivier’s (not his real name) evidence I was struck by the sheer length of his working day and how demanding it was. I cannot imagine contemporary teachers standing for almost round the clock ‘contact time’ with difficult inner-city problem youths. Didn’t the violent gangster Martin Cahill (‘The General’) attend Letterfrack?
You seemed at the time to treat my statement that I had never read the Ryan Report as some kind of admission. It is no more an admission than admitting that I don’t cross busy roads blindfolded. While you appear to treat these reports (including the Smith Report) as a way of establishing fact I tend to regard them as a subject of study: what strange psychological or sociological processes and phenomena can account for them? You can only take so much of them at a time before you have to come up for air and the thought of plumbing again their lurid and insane depths is off-putting to say the least.
Poor Nora Wall. Not only was she (very nearly) lynched by the mob but she still has the albatross of the Ryan Report hanging around her neck, apparently. Adding insult to injury.
- tdf
October 16, 2016 at 11:00 pm -
@Sean
“There is a world of difference between evil brothers forcing innocent, defenceless children to….”
I can only comment that you seem to be engaging in something you have previously accused me of, i.e., Jesuitical pedantry. I can only suggest we agree to disagree on this matter.
“Didn’t the violent gangster Martin Cahill (‘The General’) attend Letterfrack?”
I believe so. But this begs the question, does it not, ‘do sties create pigs or do pigs create sties’?
- Sean Coleman
October 17, 2016 at 8:14 pm -
‘I can only comment that you seem to be engaging in something you have previously accused me of, i.e., Jesuitical pedantry.’
I am pretty sure I haven’t used the word Jesuitical. Not even when you instructed me late one night (or early the next morning) to use the phrase Roman Catholic instead of Catholic, together with some unsolicited information about married priests in far away countries of which I know little.
But are you seriously arguing that it is splitting hairs to distinguish between an exasperated (and hastily corrected) “Oh, lick it up yourself” from an overworked, idealistic, nerve-frayed young teacher and a perverted paedophile forcing a shivering orphan to ritually spoon down a bowl of his own excrement in some satanic Roman Catholic nightmare?
‘But this begs the question, does it not…’
Does it not. This *raises* the question: to beg the question is a kind of logical fallacy, or so I am told. Except it doesn’t raise the question either. Many of these boys were juvenile delinquents – and liars.
But back to the pedantry (since you raised it). I am still waiting for you to write: ‘In your eagerness to construct a straw man, you appear in your own mind to have formed the opinion that I [am persuaded by the Ryan Report/ believe that Ireland was a theocracy/ think Jimmy Savile is guilty of abuse]. If you look at my comments you will find that I have never said this.’
I have already named this debating tactic ‘the tdf’ in your honour.
- tdf
October 17, 2016 at 9:20 pm -
@Sean
Looks like I’m wasting my time with you.
But it doesn’t really matter, because the long term trend is against your side, and favours mine.
In 20 years’ time, Ireland will be entirely secular, with the last generation of the rosary bead clutchers having relinquished their cold dead hands from the grips of power. And there’s nothing you can do to stop it.
- tdf
October 17, 2016 at 9:34 pm -
@Sean
I am probably wasting my time with you, but will respond further, for the historic record if for nothing else.
You know perfectly well that although you might not have precisely used the word ‘Jesuitical’, you cribbed and moaned when I asked you to read the Ryan report, citing a spurious and irrelevant quote from John Banville about details. You also know perfectly well that I never used the word ‘satanic’ in the context of anything to do with the Ryan report.
In her haste to put this brother’s behaviour down to just the pressure of the job, and being over-harassed, etc, you omit, of course, two significant things:
(1) The boy COMPLIED with the instruction (hence indicating, that whatever else, he, the boy did NOT think the brother was joking).
(2) The brother later fulsomely apologised in writing.
- tdf
- tdf
- Sean Coleman
- tdf
- Sean Coleman
- tdf
- Sean Coleman
October 15, 2016 at 11:57 pm -
PS What were the six pints you downed that time? Guinness, Smithwicks or Harp? My guess is Smithwicks as the Harp would probably have made you sick before you got that far.
- tdf
October 16, 2016 at 12:35 am -
Honestly can’t recall. Guinness, I think.
- tdf
- Sean Coleman
- tdf
- Eric
October 16, 2016 at 1:30 am -
The other claim made by the seething Feminazis is that the Ched Evans’ not guilty result has set the law back decades. This is truly frightening as the message here seems to be every accused man must be made an example of, guilty or not, to appease the powerful and often bullying “victim advocate” crowd. The status of being a ‘victim’ o ‘survivor’ has now become so powerful that every legal result that displeases them somehow means they are being vicariously abused again.
So much for a Stiff Upper Lip.- JuliaM
October 16, 2016 at 7:41 am -
“This is truly frightening as the message here seems to be every accused man must be made an example of, guilty or not, to appease the powerful and often bullying “victim advocate” crowd. “
Or, if you’re Barbara Allen in this morning’s ‘Guardian’, that if you are a young randy male footballer, you must have the stoicism of a Buddhist monk, while the flower of femininity of the valleys is free to get sloshed and throw herself upon you without a smidgen of criticism…
- Mike Hunt
October 16, 2016 at 1:27 pm -
Julia / Eric, sounds about right. They seem to forget that they are all young people , most of whom want sexual adventure, so some are trying to regulate and condemn what we are biologically programmed to do, we are all just smart animals
- Mike Hunt
- JuliaM
- Ciaran Goggins
October 16, 2016 at 10:38 am -
Disagree, either both anonymous or neither.
- Fred Karno
October 16, 2016 at 1:15 pm -
In case you haven’t seen, you’re cited repeatedly in the comments. Most favourably.
http://www.timworstall.com/2016/10/16/so-heres-the-moralising-about-ched-evans-then/
- Stevo
October 16, 2016 at 2:43 pm -
I do wonder what would have been the reaction of the police or CPS if Evans or McDonald had stated that they don’t remember what happened as they were suffering from memory loss due to consuming too much alcohol! Where would the case have gone then?
- Bob
October 17, 2016 at 10:58 am -
Maybe the amateur film crew trying to film events in the hotel room from outside could have helped them remember.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 17, 2016 at 1:23 pm -
I have to admit I was surprised that none of the participants had thought to youtube live stream a smartphone video during. Obviously the welsh aren’t au fait with current net-etiquette.
Would have saved everyone sooo much trouble and the tax payer so much expense.
I can just imagine the measured well spoken comments…”LOLOMG!!111 Ched HEAvans <3 <3 SH00ts, He Sc0res!"
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Bob
- Tommy K
October 16, 2016 at 5:29 pm -
So the Police and Crime Commissioner for Northumbria says that this case has turned the clock back thirty years:
If we need to turn the clock back to ensure we don’t lock people up when we shouldn’t then let’s keep turning it back. Ms Baird would do better to ask how the jury in the first trial could have concluded BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that Evans was guilty? They might have disliked Mr Evans, they might have felt that on the balance of probability he had not proved to them that he had obtained consent, but he shouldn’t have to prove that. The onus is on the prosecution to show, beyond doubt, that he proceeded despite knowing he did not have the lady’s consent. In such cases we now seem to have a presumption of guilt rather than a presumption of innocence and that is very dangerous and uncivilised.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 6:49 pm -
What I don’t ‘get’ (cos I obviously have neither Ms.Baird’s intellect nor legal training) is how a young woman admitting/being confronted with her particular preference for drunken hard-doggy sex with comparative strangers is to “throw discredit on [the woman’s] sexual reputation.”.
I expect most men here have had sex with a woman , or a man for that matter, who liked it hard from behind. Indeed I am reliably informed that some women rather enjoy such a deep uterus pummelling penetration.Does a woman, of legal age, demanding her partner take her ‘HARDER’ somehow ‘trash’ her reputation in this day and age?! 30 years? This is 2016 not 1916. Ms Baird has set a jury’s understanding of healthy female sexuality back by a century. In what world does a woman wanting energetic sex trump knowingly sleeping with an affianced man in the ‘White valley trash’ immorality stakes?
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 8:02 pm -
Ah I see John Cooper QC agrees with me and put it far more eloquently than i ever could (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37666228):
Ms Baird’s comments did the jury a disservice, he added.“We are dealing with juries in the 21st Century, men and women who understand ways of life and understand that allegations of rape like this need to be properly tested.
“We don’t have and shouldn’t have attitudes going back 30 or 40 years. These are modern juries, applying modern, proper standards we all uphold.”
I assume ‘ways of life’ is Lawyer code for ‘take me hard you big boy’ or some such?
- Ho Hum
October 16, 2016 at 9:35 pm -
You don’t read my comments, do you?
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 16, 2016 at 10:24 pm -
You know when I said ‘ahh i see that JC QC agrees’ ? I should have said ‘Thanks to Ho Hum I see’. My bad. I do read your comments, infact I try my best to read every comment from every commentator on every post…because that’s why I come here to this hostelry…well part of the reason anyways, the other being of course i am a sad old man what has no life.
- Ho Hum
October 16, 2016 at 11:25 pm -
Ah, it was sitting up there, begging, and I couldn’t resist it
I almost feel guilty….
- Ho Hum
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Ho Hum
- windsock
October 16, 2016 at 8:10 pm -
Indeed. I saw her p[inion and thought “who is trashing whom here?”
- The Blocked Dwarf
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Sean Coleman
October 16, 2016 at 8:08 pm -
I can’t find anything on line but I think I remember that the young lady received compensation after the original trial. Does anyone have any information about this? All I can find are reports about the relatively small fines paid by a handful of people who broke the law by disclosing her identity.
- Tommy K
October 17, 2016 at 1:41 pm -
Here is the latest about her:
- Tommy K
October 17, 2016 at 1:47 pm -
Her father said: “I feel as if there was a rape committed in that court by those lawyers who went through my daughter’s sexual history.”
Although it is horrible, those lawyers did what they had to do to right an injustice against Evans. The rape was inflicted on her by the police and CPS.They never took her well being into consideration, having been entirely consumed by their self-righteous, arrogant groupthink that they are the answer to all society’s ills.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 17, 2016 at 2:30 pm -
The more I read about the whole thing the more I feel less and less sympathetic towards the TEENAGE WAITRESS (to put it Daily Mailese). Originally I agreed with the Landlady that she, the TEENAGER, was more sinned against than had sinned, as she had never alleged she was raped by Evans and the CPS had f**cked her more forcefully from behind than Ched had. However to my mind it becomes increasingly clear that the woman very consciously lied by omission, infact I would say perjured herself by not giving the court the whole truth.
At any point in the last 5 years she could simply have told the truth, the whole truth…and as she is guaranteed anonymity for life she cannot claim she was too embarrassed.“Ms Teenage Waitress, you have heard my client say you told him to ‘go harder’, do you have any recollection of saying this?” to which the truthful answer would have been “NO but i am told i have used that exact phrase during other drunken encounters and I know I enjoy energetic sex from behind”.
A man’s liberty, career and family were at stake. Perhaps even his life. Any person with a shred of common humanity or decency would have admitted, no matter how shameful it felt, that CE’s account sounded plausible.
I question not her sexual morals, each to their own BUT I sure as hell think she is an immoral selfish person.
- Sean Coleman
October 17, 2016 at 8:02 pm -
Did you look at Evans’s website? There were a couple of interesting things on it but I don’t know if I am allowed to say what they are, so I won’t. I looked at it again a few weeks ago, but all of it had been taken down.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Tommy K
- Tommy K
- Alexander Baron
October 17, 2016 at 2:36 pm -
Just found this story; poetic justice. All these places should bee shut down:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/rape-victim-took-part-relentless-11546865
- windsock
October 17, 2016 at 3:00 pm -
And what is about this very sad story of a traumatised woman, and the people who tried to help her deal with that trauma, which makes you think “all these placers should be shut down”?
- windsock
- Alexander Baron
October 17, 2016 at 6:48 pm -
Rape trauma syndrome does not exist, even if this woman is a genuine victim.
- windsock
October 18, 2016 at 8:33 am -
Still does not explain why “all these placers should be shut down”.
- Alexander Baron
October 18, 2016 at 10:51 am -
Because they are encouraging women to make false rape allegations, women who are either not right in the head or simply vindictive. The harridans of Women Against Rape are outraged at women being prosecuted for making false allegations. Even though it is only a relatively small number.
The truth is that rape has never been difficult for most women to report, but with anonymity, a bit of compensation, trashing a hated man’s life, tea and sympathy, and no consequences for falsehood, more and more will and are coming forward. This is human nature. Look how much so-called discrimination there is nowadays. In America some blacks make out that it’s worse that under slavery. For real?
- windsock
October 18, 2016 at 5:06 pm -
Most Rape Crisis centres/helplines of which I am aware are usually local, supported sometimes by local councils or by local fundraising. There is no over-arching ethos of anything beyond supporting the person who is calling to talk about their experience. I’m sure each centre will have its own guidelines about whether/if to suport/suggest police reporting but to think they are delioberately encouraging women to make false rape allegations is bunkum.
If you don’t think rape is a traumatic experience, you are truly an idiot.
And how you tie this into Black Lives Matter is beyond me. Just sounds like you have a grudge against the modern age and people not taking shit any more.
- windsock
- Alexander Baron
- windsock
- windsock
October 18, 2016 at 5:07 pm -
Moderation? Again?
- Jonathan Mason
October 19, 2016 at 2:18 am -
One question that has never been discussed is whether the waitress knew Ched Evans, or knew of him, before the night in question. I understand he was a local boy and a bit of a celebrity in the area, so it is very possible.
{ 118 comments… read them below or add one }