Stop Your Sobbing
Rape and culture/rape and culture/go together like a…well, those two words don’t really go together at all, do they? An oxymoron is, I believe, the correct term. Culture is described by the dictionary I prepared earlier as ‘the skills, arts, etc of a given people in a given period; civilisation’ as well as ‘improvement of the mind, manners etc’ – are these descriptions one would associate with an act as far removed from culture as rape? As far as I’m aware, there are no such terms as Murder Culture or GBH Culture.
A relatively recent term such as ‘Rape Culture’ seems to imply that rape itself is somehow a relatively recent innovation or that rape as it was defined before the suffix ‘culture’ was tagged onto it wasn’t the same act as it is today. Rape Culture is somehow different to old-school rape; this is the new rape, rape for the twenty-first century. It’s been pigeonholed like everything else, neatly packaged and put into a box, as though it were the latest musical subgenre. Pretty obscene, to reduce rape to a fad or a fashion. But it’s not only the act itself that has been re-categorised; anyone subjected to it now also has to react to it in a specific manner. There are dos and don’ts that suggest every rape is identical and every person’s reaction to their own experience of it should mirror another’s. It’s only a matter of time before a guidebook outlines the right and wrong way to react, I suppose. Actually, thinking about it, there probably is one already.
Just as it has become expected that grief has to be expressed by the bereaved in public – and if it isn’t, the grief clearly isn’t genuine – anyone who has suffered rape must now be permanently branded by it, even if the rape took place prior to the invention of Rape Culture. Their persona has to be defined by the crime committed upon them forevermore. This wasn’t the case with men who endured horrific treatment in Japanese POW camps in the Second World War; they weren’t called ‘War Victims’ for the rest of their days. Whatever demons tormented them when they slept, they got on with their civilian lives as best they could and refused to allow a past event to dictate their present and future. That’s what a real ‘survivor’ does. They survive.
The predictably hysterical response to sections lifted from Chrissie Hynde’s forthcoming autobiography that centred on an adolescent rape at the hands of a biker gang appeared to focus on the fact that the front-woman with The Pretenders had managed to build a highly successful career for herself after it happened – and not as a Professional Victim. How dare she, what with her being a weak and feeble woman? As if this wasn’t a big enough insult to the rigid rules and regulations of Rape Culture, Hynde also had the nerve to suggest that a young woman off her tits on some ill-advised substance or other and dressed like a hooker perhaps couldn’t have expected a biker gang to behave in any other way when she staggered into their orbit. Chrissie Hynde dared to veer from the script, and that is unforgivable.
Anyone wandering around off their tits on some ill-advised substance or other is vulnerable, male or female, for – believe it or not – there are some people out there who exploit and take advantage of weakness in others, and – guess what – there always have been. An inebriated (male) friend of mine was once mugged in Leeds city centre; accosted by a lady of the night, he was doing his best to politely spurn her advances when her pimp emerged from the shadows and promptly robbed him of the few valuables he had on him; in the same neighbourhood, a stoned female acquaintance of mine once had a knife pulled on her by a man. There are some city centres where you take your life and your liberty in your hands if you’re on your own and not in full control of your faculties. It doesn’t mean you’re ‘asking for it’ or you deserve to be mugged, raped or murdered if you find yourself in that situation; it just means you’re a naive idiot with a glaring absence of any street-wise (not say common) sense.
If uncontrollable lust was the instinctive male response to every young woman dressed ‘provocatively’ en route to a nightclub, she’d never get more than a few feet from her front door. Most men are actually capable of keeping their manhood zipped-up in public and can look without touching; indeed, many are decent enough to assist a damsel in distress, ordering her a taxi and keeping a close eye on her until it arrives. Good Samaritans don’t all wear robes and live in the Holy Land. Just as more children are abused within the confines of the home than ensnared by ex-Radio 1 DJs loitering behind bushes, women who encounter sexual violence mostly do so in the same environment, usually at the hands of somebody known to them rather than products of a new ‘culture’ roaming the streets with incurable erections every Friday and Saturday night. Rapes that make headlines, unlike the ones that take place behind closed doors, then serve to propagate the belief that rape is exclusively an outdoor crime carried out by strangers driven to rabid despair by a pair of exposed legs or firmly-sculpted buttocks.
Of course there are nasty bastards who spike drinks and take advantage, and while it’s not always possible to avoid their attentions, there are obvious precautions that can be taken. Today’s messages are mixed, to say the least. A woman is expected to be both ‘Geordie Shore’ bruiser and shrinking Victorian violet, and a man may go to bed with one and wake up with the other, finding the consensual adventure of the night before has been reclassified as rape. A woman cannot expect to share a level playing field with a man in any social situation if she is too willing to revert to the swooning wallflower in a whalebone bodice. Feminism was supposed to do away with that; Mary Wollstonecraft tried over two-hundred years ago, let alone the boiler-suited and Dr Marten-booted ball-breakers of the 1980s.
To allow the actions of a rapist to remake and remodel his victim so that she can never be anything other than a rape victim is to concede he has won. It goes without saying that, in some cases, the experience can cast a shadow over the rest of the victim’s life and can precipitate a downward spiral without help or support; but the eagerness to embrace Victimhood without even attempting to overcome it is a virus that has infected contemporary feminism in a way that would have its gutsy godmothers spinning in their graves, not to mention their whalebone bodices.
Petunia Winegum
TRACK CAPTAIN RACCOON DAY 4: http://jst.org.uk/track-our-ships/
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September 2, 2015 at 9:44 am -
But if you’re not a “victim” then there’s no chance of any compo, is there?
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September 2, 2015 at 9:48 am -
Absolutely BRILLIANT!
Were this my site, I’d insert many supportive expletives between those first two words, but suffice to say, I shall remain polite and merely jump up and down with joy, waving my big girl’s knickers in the air.
I award you The Orgasmic Smiley for this article, Petunia.
THANK YOU!
:0)
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September 2, 2015 at 9:52 am -
Chrissie also broke the cardinal rule of calling the current crop of crap out for what they are:
“..a lot of women who call themselves feminists as far as I am concerned are not feminists. Women who sell what their product is by using sex, that’s prostitution. A pop star who’s walking around, parading themselves as a porn star and saying they’re feminists. They’re prostitutes. I’m not making a value judgement on prostitutes, but just say what you are”How very telling that we have a generation of silver-spoon poppets with nothing to say (that hasn’t been scripted for them) telling the generation that gave us Siouxsie Sioux, Debbie Harry, Viv Albertine and Poly Styrene that they are/were ‘wrong’, whilst revering the likes of Rita Ora, Jessie J, Miley Cyrus & Rihanna as ’empowered’.
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September 2, 2015 at 10:02 am -
Interesting article here corroborating your point of view: https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/a-fate-worse-than-death/
She quotes someone else with this choice phrase: “the notion that a man can ruin me with his penis strikes me as the most complete expression of vintage misogyny available.”
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September 2, 2015 at 10:11 am -
A drunk guy was raped by two of those wonderful Libyan ‘cadets’ that entertained the people of Bassingbourn recently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-32749555 -
September 2, 2015 at 10:19 am -
I hate disagreeing with you Petunia, but on this, I have to. I could write a screed about my own experience of rape; about the calls I have taken on helplines from people who saw themselves as victims of sexual assault; the support I have given to people who were sexually abused and the attempts I made to help rehabilitate convicted sex offenders. Said screed would be as long as your’s and to be honest, I would feel too uncomfortable to write about other people’s experiences as told to me.
Suffice to say that some people ARE traumatised by their experience. Rape is a violent act on another person’s body. We all sympathise with victims of burglary …””it felt so intrusive to have someone go through our things”…, but it seems you’re saying that rape victims should mostly eventually pull themselves together? I’m not saying it can’t be done and I’m not disagreeing with your own ideas of culpability (I feel I definitely played a part in my own rape and I’ve learned to shrug and move on), but as every rape is different, so is every reaction to it.
You say: “To allow the actions of a rapist to remake and remodel his victim so that she can never be anything other than a rape victim is to concede he has won” Unfortunately, that is sometimes true.
And as far as “Rape Culture”, it does exist. It is the idea that all women are manipulative misaccusers, it exists in the idea of “slutshaming”, it exists in the rape jokes on Sickipedia, where punchlines of “and then I raped her” seem to get the LOLZ. it exists in the very idea that we might want to consider segregated railway carriages (which I witnessed in Mexico City, some years ago), and it exists still within certain marriages where a wife is not considered to have the right to say no.
Maybe my years have seen me in too much contact with different aspects of this subject, but I feel your tone is mis-judged on this. Sorry.
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September 2, 2015 at 10:48 am -
September 2, 2015 at 8:50 pm -
Kenneth Clarke, usually the EU’s devil incarnate to me, got himself into some very hot water a while back by suggesting that there are different types of ‘rape’ and, on that occasion, he was right. The ‘traditional’, random, surprise, violent rape, whether the victim is a woman or a man, must be a truly horrific experience – and act which no honorable man could ever commit and for which the victim deserves every sympathy and form of redress available, and for which the guilty rapist deserves very severe punishment.
However, the term has now been hi-jacked to incorporate almost any form of less-than-enthusiastically-greeted sexual penetration, even when that lack of enthusiasm is only made evident some time after the event. All blokes will recall some of their younger fumbled encounters which seemed to be heading for fruition, only for the recipient to start to indicate, often indirectly, some late reluctance to proceed – in the height of hormonal urges it can take a certain strength for the man to recognise and respond to that change and some men will fail. The situation is further exacerbated by the ingestion of substances which may have affected the judgement of both parties. I find it difficult to accept the same definition of ‘rape’ to describe those events.
And in the full grey-scale of sexual encounters and ‘consent’, this current misuse of the term ‘rape’ does not help anyone, least of all those who have genuinely been raped in the ‘traditional’ manner.
On this rare occasion, I’m with Kenneth Clarke, who put his old head above the parapet and was promptly assaulted by all the predictable slings and arrows of outrageous and outraged feminists. Rape is bad, but it’s not all ‘rape’. We need a new nomenclature to apply a more fitting set of terms to the different levels of event, terms which would not then create wholly wrong perceptions amongst those not involved and, more importantly, amongst those charged with judging the event at some distance in time.
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September 2, 2015 at 10:29 am -
/applause
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September 2, 2015 at 10:41 am -
“To allow the actions of a rapist to remake and remodel his victim so that she can never be anything other than a rape victim is to concede he has won.”
I have a lovely, brave friend who was raped, back in the 1990s. She was walking home late at night along a deserted back street when the man attacked her. He threw her over a garden wall and beat and throttled her into unconsciousness, raping her at some point along the way. She wasn’t found until daylight, didn’t wake up for four days and spent a further three weeks in hospital having broken bones and torn flesh mended. The police never found her attacker.
She applied for, and received, the maximum amount of CI compensation (I think it was £3000) – and promptly spent the lot on a bright red soft-top sports car. Her answer, when everyone asked why, was “When it’s a nice sunny day, I’ll put on my slap and my best party dress and drive around town in it, with the top down. If my rapist ever sees me, he’ll know he hasn’t beaten me!” And she did too, never at any point thinking of herself as a victim. -
September 2, 2015 at 11:10 am -
Another ill informed article with an agenda. We live in a ‘culture’ that no longer puts women and children first, in fact there are today many other protected groups that would likely be favoured to be put on life boats first, a trendy fun show of a boat that would be ! Women of course need not be handled gently ( the old fashioned way of opening doors etc) often because they may be considered special and potentially pregnant carrying the precious next generation. Basic human curtesy of child protection , is not in our culture and clearly not at the top of the agenda in UK , so much for female liberation, if a paedo had control of your life through status you still didn’t have a hope in hell of seeing justice. Then we come to the so called equalisation in the laddette culture ,well a women is still no matter how trendy the silly theorist ideas not stronger or less likely to become pregnant. The silly writer here has a history of thinking its empowering to women to make them invincible to becoming a victim, sorry not biologically true we have still many delicate natural characteristics, stigmatising the non career achieving women who felt victimised and you feel should pick themselves up is just bullish and self centred removed from average life, which is what the articles reek of. Keeping it in their trousers is not the root of the issues its how the status of women is deformed by silly empowered women (among the few) who spend all day spreading opinions that don’t fit all. The rape culture is an extension of youth culture and culture that rebels against classical culture endlessly trying to reform a basic set of rules made by Mother Nature, we can’t mess with it, it’s nature not nurture.Rape isn’t fault of confused women who are all liberal then turn hatchet women in the morning it’s a product of sex being a product easily got, because you never protected the truest form of women and children that’s why you need to lie!
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September 2, 2015 at 11:24 am -
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September 2, 2015 at 12:17 pm -
What a strange response from Sam Hill! Maybe s/he has posted on the wrong blog!
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September 2, 2015 at 2:45 pm -
We live in a ‘culture’ that no longer puts…children first
I disagree, I stood outside having a smoke with Granddwarfette 2 in her 3wheeled-McClaren Suspended-shopping panzer thingy. She was watching, fascinated, the way only a 2 month old can. Few more months and on the rare wind still days we have in Norfolk I’ll be able to blow smoke rings for her to giggle at. That ‘sun’ thingy was shining, the birds were choking on the miasma from the fermenting victorian sewers and a gentle breeze blew the fine particle emissions from the main road into both our faces. So-all-in-all a pretty perfect snapshot of ‘Opa’ Dwarf & Dwarfette bonding.
‘cept every , and I do mean EVERY, woman who walked passed didn’t smile at us/baby as all women are genetically preprogrammed to, but shot me the sort of look someone dressing up as Jimmy Savile at a Children’s Birthday party, or some parent who let their child ride a bike without a helmet ,would incur.
The CHILDREN have been proclaimed the single most important group in our society, whose protection from all threats-real, imaginary or just plain stupid-is the highest virtue. If only MWT would convert to Catholicism, his canonisation would be ensured.
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September 2, 2015 at 4:49 pm -
Er….sorry, Sam, but I do NOT agree. Men are NATURAL protectors of women. The majority of them have ALWAYS put women and children first, wanting to protect their wives, their lovers, their children. Then, along came Feminism and suddenly, if a man DARED to open a door, or give up his seat he was called a Male Chauvenist Pig, inferring that women were The Weaker Sex and thus, unable to do things for themselves.
“A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle”
Just think about that for a while and imagine YOU are a man, that being said to you…..How degrading that is, how bullying…
Once, it all worked very well. Men went to work to earn the money to keep their families, women, in the main, stayed home to raise the children, the next generation, and were the ones who built the neighbourhood up, kept it safe, spotted the strangers, etc.
Yes, it’s good that women can now be equal to men in their job choices…but at what point did a career become more important, even AS important, as having a child, a family? At what point did women willingly hand their *children* over to others to raise, because being at work meant more to them?
Many, of course, HAVE to do this, having no choice, financially, it being the only way they can keep a roof over their heads these days….But oh, how the children have suffered! They are plonked into schools for breakfast clubs now, not even having the first meal of their day with their families…Often, they have After School Clubs, or they go to their Child Minders after school…no Mum or Dad there to hug them, to kiss them, to love them….for people are now paranoid about touching children, hugging them as if they are their own, as once we used to.
These children will often have been in playgroup (sorry, pre-school learning alliances) from the age of 2….they will start school at 4…continue in there until 16/18, often going to college, university after….
Feminism preached Anti-Femininity, Anti-Motherhood, Anti-Staying At Home, Anti-Building Your Nest For Your Family.
Feminism is all about the woman and many of the most ardent feminists, are, in my view, utterly selfish individuals, self-obsessed bullies, who demand everything be done THEIR way and that women must be women THEIR way, whether they want to or not….
I have absolutely no desire to be a man, nor do I want to be part of The Sisterhood. I have known some truly horrible, vile women in my time.
Men count for nothing any longer, pushed aside, humiliated, belittled, de-masculated. Everything is from the woman’s angle only….
HeForShe they DEMAND, but NO SheForHe of course, because these Shes don’t give a damn about men, about little boys….They screech about Female Genital Mutilation, yet, they happily remain silent about what is done to little boys in the name of tradition/religion.
They are the kind of humans who, when presented with two lines of children, one of little girls, one of little boys, ALL about to have genital mutilation would ONLY rescue the little girls.The men would rescue ALL the children…..and deal with the weird folks doing this in the first place.
If you DARE to criticize these women, they turn on you, just as they are now turning on Chrissie in the most putrid way, which I was absolutely expecting to happen.
Most young women are now such spoiled brats, with such a profoundly distorted sense of entitlement that it beggars belief…
You do NOT see men behaving this way. Many men can’t even be Fathers to their children in some cases. They are shoved out, made fun of, treated AS badly as some men used to treat women….Apparently, this is OK though? Not in my book it isn’t.
Femnists are all over our universities, brainwashing young women, who, in turn, take it out on the young men, making them feel they’re all sex beasts, yet shoving their boobs and bums into their faces to taunt them, or having sex with men when THEY choose to, reporting the man if DARES to try to do this to them though.
Look at this…scroll down…to see Rita Ora in her vaginal zip knickers!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3214274/Hot-white-Rita-Ora-displays-toned-torso-skintight-crop-mini-skirt-heads-dinner-LA.htmlThese women are all trying to outdo each other in shock value, not a THOUGHT for the little children who follow them…happily ‘grooming’ them, only interested in themselves.
The whole system is now so out of kilter that it beggars belief. We need to go back to The Old Ways, cut the drinking right back, get to know each other first, replace ‘sex’ with ‘love’ and bring in self-respect. We need to get these dreadful women out of the music scene, the ones who are grooming the next generation to be sluts, basically, grooming them into pornography, into being a sex object and nothing else…
Whatever happened to BRAINS? Whatever happened to INTELLIGENCE? Whatever happened to people thinking for themselves, rather than following The Hedonistic Herd?
Most men LONG to protect, it is their natural way. But how can they do that when so many women have become hard-nosed little bitches, who will put a man down in an instant with spiteful words..or…legal action?
Many women, I believe, become ‘hatchet women’ in the mornings now, having gone to bed with a total stranger….blaming HIM for HER behaviour. Both genders are out of control and both, I believe, are deeply unhappy too. It breaks my heart to see what is going on…and to think that many youngsters HAVE to get blotto in order to cope with behaving in a way which, in reality, is utterly alien to them.
I can think of nothing worse than having sex with any Tom, Dick or Harry, night after night…no relationship, just a physical act which means nothing, where once, it meant *everything*…I am so lucky to have grown up when I did, in such gentler times, where women, in the main, were still very feminine and had a lot of self-respect. where LOVE and Making Love mattered so hugely…where there was softness and compassion, friendship and fun…
Obviously, I’m generalizing, for some men are vile, as are some women….but that will, sadly, always be the case..and for modern feminists to expect that those who are wired up wrongly are EVERY going to change, to abide by their rules, is madness. These women live on a different planet..and they’re encouraged other women to abandon all form of safety and common sense…and to refuse to accept the consequences of their own actions.
If you drank yourself legless in my day (and not that many women did), then ‘put it around’ as we used to say, you got a reputation as being a right ‘slapper’ and that was NOT a good thing to be known as….Now, no-one has ANY shame and you are regarded as being vile if you DARE to have an opinion…well, I *dare* and my opinion is that women are way out of control, by their own volition, and many now look and behave like utter tramps, egged on by Feminists who are, in the main, sixpence short of a shilling, in my view, total man haters, who also loathe children, who loathe being pregnant, loathe having a womb, etc..etc…
Mixed up, Muddled up…but sadly, VERY controlling and VERY manipulative.
And they are causing a lot of men to actually loathe women….which again, breaks my heart, because once, we were friendly toward each other…and each gender had respect for the other.
All gone now.
All gone……………..God help the men and the little boys….
May they rise up one day soon, to say “ENOUGH!”-
September 2, 2015 at 5:15 pm -
Oh well said Lizzie! The world as we know it has gone mad. It seems that feminists want to prove they are superior to men. How can that be, when they also want to turn us into blubbering wrecks, blaming others for our own actions?
In fact I go so far as to say that the feminists are actually not feminists at all. Back in the day, feminists wanted equality – and that is all I ever would want to see. Neither is superior to the other. We all have our gifts to bring to the world.
I remember years ago working on the factory floor, and some of the girls wanted equal pay. Fair enough, until it related to hard manual graft, doing labouring work. I did that. But I couldn’t do all of it simply because I was not physically strong enough to do so. The guys deserved the extra few quid in their pay packet because they were doing more work than I was and it was harder graft. I didn’t resent that at all.
When I worked in offices and did the same work as men, and they got paid more, that I did resent!
I’d love to find a well mannered gentleman who doesn’t just use his manners to get me into bed and then they are forgotten. I think that sort of behaviour is a by-product of the feminazis belittling the role of men and trying to make us all into one gender with different body parts.
I love to have a door opened for me, or given a seat on a packed train. I like manners!
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September 2, 2015 at 10:03 pm -
This bloke agrees with you Helga.
I do love offering a seat or holding a door for a woman. It was just one of the courtesies trained into me as a child. Older woman invariably show gratitude/approval, but I still get some pleasure from the younger harpies who feel demeaned by such gestures.
Small pleasures, harming no one.
Yeah, nothing to do with rape , I know.-
September 2, 2015 at 10:15 pm -
Nothing to do with rape, but last week Mrs M and I arrived at our dentist’s to find the waiting room full – almost immediately two teenagers, one of each gender, stood up and offered us their seats. We were instantly impressed that such courtesy and manners were alive & well amongst those young folk whose age-group is too often disparaged as graceless – this positive feeling was then almost immediately replaced by a dawning realisation that, to those two bright teens, we two 60-somethings must have appeared to be on our last legs and in urgent need of seating. Sad to say, a week later, it’s that second impression which has registered the most – I had walked out of that place a somewhat older chap than when I had walked sprightly in.
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September 3, 2015 at 8:19 am -
Lizzie, you have no idea how heartwarming that post is. Thankyou.
Sometimes being a bit old -school one can feel at odds with the fashions and fads where manners kindness and courtesy are disappearing, i have a feeling though there’s a lot of more of us out there than we might think, but we don’t speak out enough in the fast changing world we live in.
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September 6, 2015 at 1:42 am -
Lizzie, women have more to fear from the opprobrium and spite of other women than they have from most men. Especially dangerous are those women who wilfully misrepresent feminism as some sort of man hating, childless club for hairy sexless harridans. Don’t worry though, women like you are always very popular with certain types of men, usually overweight and balding, who crowd round the end of the bar all night and moan about how much the ex is ripping them off . Note I said certain types, not all. Let me guess, you married young, stayed at home being supported by hubby, dutiful wife, and resent the freedom and choice that young women enjoy. If not, then you’re a hypocrite as well as an embittered and jealous old shrew.
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September 6, 2015 at 10:49 am -
That just goes to show how careful you should be before hiding behind a computer monitor. If you wish to insult somebody you do not know, I suggest you do some homework first.
If not, then you’re a hypocrite as well as an embittered and jealous old shrew.
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September 10, 2015 at 1:17 am -
What nonsense you spout! I’m not concerned with someone’s personal story but when their hysterical self-hating (for a woman who shies away from the word feminism is surely self-loathing) and spiteful contempt for women comes to my attention I will react. As for ‘hiding’ behind a keyboard; post your address up and I’ll send you a photo.
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September 10, 2015 at 10:18 am -
No photo required (I’ve not had breakfast yet) and of course, given the vitriolic bile you spout, not once but now twice, then I can only assume that the last time you weren’t having a bad day, but this is the real you. You’ve shown us what you are by your refusal to consider where a person comes from, before answering.
You remind me of my ex boyfriend. His favourite word was “no” and his favourite phrase was “I am right and you are wrong”. When proved to be wrong he would then say “Oh. I’m sharing the same hallucination as you”. He could never accept he was in the wrong and when it was proved, he was still “right”. You must be related to him.
I never converse with blinkered idiots who have no answer other than to make personal comments and making assumptions without knowing any of the facts, so I’ll leave you to have the last word. You’re the kind that doesn’t let things go, and you will want the last word.
I won’t answer of course, I have better people to debate with. Thanks for providing me with an out-loud laugh this morning. I needed it!
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September 10, 2015 at 2:21 pm -
I LOATHE the word Feminism. Always have done. I loathe The Feminist Agenda. I particularly loathe this New Feminism which, in my view, is utterly vile.
I also loathe those who say “You are either with us, or against us!” as that smacks of control freaks, bullies and dictators…all of which can be found inside the Feminist Movement.
Tell you what, when you lot have a SheForHe agenda, not merely a HeForShe one, and when you rescue little boys from genital mutilation, not just little girls, then I may see you in a different light…..but NOT until you start to say GOOD things about men, let them BE men, stop be foul about them as a gender and understand there are good and bad in BOTH genders.
So, a woman who doesn’t like Feminists is a self-hater, is she? THAT’S a new one to me. HA!
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September 6, 2015 at 12:33 pm -
Good Morning Sula,
If something is wholly wrong, in my view, I will speak out.
FYI:
I married at 27. I had my children at 31 and 39 and 3/4, losing two inbetween. I remained married for 25 years, then, I divorced my first husband, no-one else involved, merely ‘life’ having changed us both. I gave him the best and kindest divorce anyone could hope for, under the circumstances of a divorce taking place, not wishing to hurt him anymore than I had to. I took only 60% of the house, would have taken just 50%, but no judge would have allowed that, so I was told, due to me having the children living with me. We shared the care of them, (they were 14 and 21 at the time) I would never take his children away from him, ever and they need their Dad, which is why I now live close by to where he is.. I took not a penny of his very nice pension, nor his car. I also continued to care for his mother, who was living with us already, since 2000, and who still lives with me to this day. She will be 101 at the end of this month. He has treated me badly since our divorce. That is his choice and his karma.
I CHOSE to stay at home, loving every moment of raising my children. Before this, amongst other jobs, I had been a Harley St. secretary, in all to 3 surgeons and a top cardiologist, in two jobs I loved. I loved/love my children FAR more though. I never wanted a ‘career’, ever.
I re-married, to an American, a man who had had a very tough life, despite his parents having been Hollywood musical stars of their era, albeit not major ones, but famous enough. That marriage was anulled by me, due to circumstances. Very specific circumstances apply to an annulment. I had them. It broke my heart, but…such is life…and hurt people hurt people. He returned to America. He tried to commit suicide a few years back, nothing to do with me, but with the friends he had chosen to live with. It was a culmination of his entire life too, I’d assume, as he had struggled with life from being a child. He is now, aged 62, still in a nursing home in Oakland, where he will remain for the rest of his days. Very, very sad. In many ways, I am sure he wishes the police had not found him in time, for then he could be back with his beloved brother, whom he has missed these past 35 years or so, after his brother too committed suicide due to drugs. They both suffered a great deal. I still keep in contact with his friends, who, at one point, were going to just walk away from him, leaving him entirely on his own. I talked them round, because I still care about this desperately broken human being. Mim has no idea I’m still in the background, keeping a gentle eye on him from thousands of miles away. I do not hate him, despite what he did. I feel great sorrow for him.
I then fell into the arms of another, a man who truly took my heart in a way I had never known before, feeling I was finally ‘home’…all those cliches that people write about, I was in the middle of, feeling I’d known him ‘all my life’ ‘throughout the centuries’….It was the most extraordinary of happenings and one I never imagined would ever happen. Other people knew him and loved him…This time, I felt safe, loved as I had never been before, cared for so deeply that it was unimaginable.
He was a narcissist, so I went on to discover. He gave me exactly what I was dreaming of, everything I could imagine, he did for me, nothing was too much trouble, we laughed and loved without end…and then, he just walked away, was already in the arms of another, unknown to me at that time.
At this point, I almost went to pieces. But, I decided to try and understand and I began to unravel it all and found out about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I knew he’d had problems, very severe ones, cruelly treated as a child by his mother, an absent father, so a double whammy of bad parents, just as Mim had had too. I began to unravel Mim’s behaviour as well and realized that he too probably has this disorder.
I learned how humans who are badly treated as children (and it is NOT always sexual abuse) close down their hearts very early in life, in order to survive the terrible trauma around them…and thus, they can do terrible things to others. They actually HATE themselves inside, and this, of course, is compounded by the reactions from those they have tricked into loving them, then treated so cruelly.
They put out many different personalities, to many different people. Many of those folks will never believe there is another person lurking inside the jovial, charming person they know, the broken child who has been hiding for decades, desperate to be rescued, to be loved, but no longer trusting love ever, screwing up any love that comes their way, wanting to hurt, to harm, to cause the kind of pain they are in, to others, for ‘love’ let them down at the very start of their lives and they have never recovered….
I would not wish NPD on my worst enemy.
It took me a while, but I also realized my own mother probably had NPD too and thus, these broken people were ‘home’ to me, I understood them, you see, could deal with the strange ways which others ran away from. It is why I ran towards them, arms open in love, when most would run away as fast as they could.
I still care for this man, even though he has gone on to spread vile rumours about me to cover his back. I would never have him back.
So, how have I come to still stand up for men despite all this? Why have I not become like you, seemingly hating ALL men? I’ll tell you why, Sula.
You see, I was blessed to have the most wonderful father…a man who was SO kind, loving, wise and gentle. To this day, 25 years after his death, Dad’s love STILL remains with me each and every single day. He loved my mother despite her treating him appallingly. He would never hear a word against her. He simply *loved* her, to the end of his days. He was 17 years older than Mum, so I grew up with parents from two generations. My Dad’s generation, born in 1914, taught me a great deal…and it is from his side that my strength and compassion comes. He was a man who wanted nothing other than to care for his family, to protect and raise his children with love. He had lived through WWII, was born into WWI, of course, and knew the value of life, knew that love HAD to conquer hate. He referred to ALL women as ‘Ladies’ and was always deeply polite and loving towards women…and to men too. He was a quiet man, hurt/harmed by the war…which he rarely spoke of, but he did tell me this, which has remained with me all my life…and Dad was talking of Hitler, of course…..”Sometimes, Liz, some things are just SO evil that you cannot just walk away. You HAVE to turn and make a stand”
That’s what my kind, gentle father did…..and I am my father’s daughter, choosing to follow in his footsteps.
I see this WAR against men as evil, truly evil.
Men themselves are also ‘victims’ (a word I have come to loathe, due to feminism) of The Patriarchy, for what most feminists, indeed, I’d actually say ALL feminists, don’t understand is that The Patriarchy is a system NOT designed to keep women down, but to keep ALL humans down.
It is a triangular system, designed by Psychopaths, and women are psychopaths too…where everyone fights everyone else to remain in their position on the triangle, fighting to stay in the highest position they can, seeking to control those beneath them.
The Indigenous Way, of course, is The Circle, a Circular System where ALL are equal. We have yet to understand this wholly.
I like men, as a gender, despite having had a few treat me very cruelly. I know the two who did would treat any woman that way, due to their childhoods and their mothers, in particular, NOT being their for them as they should have been.
Men are treated appallingly these days, in many ways, especially the men who, through no fault of their own, are ripped off by vile divorces, where the woman strives to take every single penny, leaving him destitute and taking his children from him, often by using ‘false allegations’ to do this, of course, in a system designed to help her, and slaughter him.
I do not resent anyone their freedom, but I abhor the way The Children are now farmed out, feminist-style, to child-minders (how I LOATHE that word too) whilst mothers choose their careers over their children, putting these little humans into care from the age of 2 upwards these days, institutionalizing them for decades within The System, which seeks to drag children away from parents earlier and earlier.
I have deep sympathy for any woman who has NO choice but to give her children over to others, because she cannot afford a home or food on the table without her working too, these days, due to the cost of living. That is torture for many women and it is causing massive pain to them, to their children. ALL children need their mothers/fathers. They need to be hugged, kissed, loved, to have human contact. Now, most who care for children cannot touch them, unless it is in a certain way. So many children denied love, touch, parents, and peace, being raised in constant noise, surrounded by other children all the time, all clamouring for the attention of their ‘minders’.
You want to know why we now have such a narcissistic society in this country? Look to the separation of parent from child. It is the biggest form of National Child Abuse I’ve ever seen….Women being encouraged to remain child/adults, clubbing, leaving their children with others, in their MUST HAVE A SOCIAL LIFE outlook….being told they must absolve ALL personal responsibility, and everything that may happen to them is nothing to do with them at all and ALL the fault of men and men alone.
That’s the biggest load of balderdash I have ever heard.
My generation and those before, didn’t think this way. We accepted the consequences of our actions and we learned from them too.
We were Mums and proud to be so. We had a mountain of maternal instinct and it was OK to BE a Mum in the first place….(obviously, I’m generalizing, because some women are terrible mothers, see above to the broken men I spoke of)..but in general, we were happy to be at home.
And another thing, this encouragement of women to be single parents is not good. By all means help those who have no choice and who are literally left holding the baby, but to make it a life-choice from women is not good. Children NEED their fathers. Fathers are really important in a child’s life…and the majority of Dad’s are good men, loving and protective. Children have a RIGHT to their fathers being in their lives, if those fathers are decent and kind and loving.
Our boys, young men and older men have been under attack for decades now and they no longer feel they can do anything right. That’s AS bad as the Misogynists who treat women this way. Feminism, to me, is Misandry.
If men feel under attack and I believe they now do, in everything they do, then there will be a backlash.
Feminism has sought to remove all gentleness from society, from women themselves, to remove all femininity and maternalism, in my view. That is so wrong. I was reading a foul article by a feminist yesterday, who wanted ALL men and boys to live in camps (!!) Her name is Julie Bindel. Here is the article:
That is misogyny, in my eyes, total misogyny. ‘All Women Are Victims’ rubbish.
Your comment, above, is, in my view, dripping with bitterness and hatred towards men.
Chrissie Hynde chose NOT to be a victim for the rest of her days. She chose to make a success of her life, to accept that she had played a part in what happened to her by putting herself in harm’s way. Of course, any rapist is the main person to blame, but we were taught to be sensible and NEVER to put ourselves in harm’s way, to be aware…and it takes great courage, particularly in this day and age, to stand up and say “Yup, *I* played a part in what happened to me and had I been more sensible, it would never have happened.”
I have more reason than some to hate men as a gender, but that would be utterly ridiculous, for I chose to go towards broken men, and thus, I was hurt, even though, I had no idea at the start of how broken they were, just feeling they were unhappy and needed love. I choose NEVER to hate those men, but to have compassion for them, because I know that a GOOD parent can make a GOOD child, one who is happy and loving. They never had that. That was not their fault.
There are many broken women too out there, who deliberately hurt and abuse men and that is being silenced, with anyone who DARES to speak up about it being put down and belittled in the way you have chosen to do to me. This is desperately wrong.
Men and Women matter EQUALLY. Both can be cruel to one another, due to many different circumstances. There is never any excuse for such cruelty, ever, but there are always reasons, because happy, loving, well adjusted people do NOT want to hurt or harm others.
This new feminist war is repugnant to me. So, I’m afraid you will just have to keep your insults. And perhaps it would do you good to read them again and ask yourself why you have chosen to be so vile towards me. Take it back into your own life, your own story.
As I said above, I was very blessed to have had my Darlin’ Dad in my life and my life would have been very, very different had he NOT been there to balance Mum’s problems out, to love and support me, to leave me The BucketLoad of Love which he left me. My Dad died without a penny to his name, despite having worked hard all his life, but he left me A Treasure Beyond Gold.
Thank you.
Lizzie-
September 6, 2015 at 1:29 pm -
Epic. I disagree with some of what you say Liz, but I’m glad you said it and glad i took the time to read it this Sunday.
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September 10, 2015 at 1:01 am -
Sorry, too long, didn’t read, except the bit where you confirm my point that you cast feminists as man haters. Case closed.
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September 10, 2015 at 12:16 pm -
If you can’t take the heat, Sula, stay out of the kitchen.
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September 2, 2015 at 11:19 am -
An excellent piece, Petunia. It seems to me, having only had a cursory glance at Ms Hynde’s comments that they were to the following effect: it was a bit reckless and irresponsible to walk round half naked and high on drugs, so in a sense I courted trouble and it was not so surprising that I was sexually assaulted. That’s the gist of it as I understood it, and I am happy to be corrected. SO, from a “rock chick” who has seen it all and lived a pretty full life as it seems to me we get – well, what I would regard as common sense. Of course it is going to drive certain feminists up the wall, but it just seems that’s what it is to me. It not to condone rape or sexual violence or exploitation in any form or in any way, but it is a statement to the effect that it is a good idea to exercise a degree of care. I know that it is a tired old cliche but if I lived in a dodgy neighbourhood (as I do, probably) it would be a good idea not to leave the front door open if I go out for a congenial stroll of the evening. OK so that’s a bit crass, and the point could probably be better made, but a degree of precaution would be a good thing. This is not, by the way, arguing that if a woman dresses “provocatively” (whatever that means) and/or gets falling down drunk or off her face on something that these are mitigating factors: they are not. It is merely saying that it is wise not to expose oneself to readily to evil doers in the world.
Good to see Captain Racoon has made the mainland of Europe. I hope she’s enjoying the “coffee”…. -
September 2, 2015 at 12:04 pm -
I’ve been having the same argument for the last couple of years now. Let’s look at it another way:
You are having a nice quiet drink in a pub on your own. You’ve got your handbag on the floor and your purse on the table. You need the loo. Because we women have now been infantilised in that we have no sense of personal responsibility, off we pop to the loo minus our valuable and horror of horrors, when we return to our table, the purse and the bag have gone. Whose fault is this? The thief. Yes. Would that have happened if you had taken your valuables into the loo with you? No. Personal responsibility.
You are wondering around the supermarket with your purse in your wire basket. While you are checking the ingredients of a product, you don’t notice someone coming up behind you, and taking the purse. Whose fault is that? The thief. Yes. If the purse had been safely tucked into your bag, out of sight, would it have happened? Unlikely. Personal responsibility.
An acquaintance of mine, not long out of prison, went on a train with his laptop. Instead of keeping it with him he put it in the luggage area. Unsurprisingly it wasn’t there when he went to get off. You’d think he would know better having been locked up with countless thieves and others.
In an ideal world we would not expect anybody to rob us. We do not live in an ideal world.
Years ago I used to dress like a tart. Yes – I said the word – tart. I’m allowed to because I’m talking about me. I’d get off my face (booze) and the next morning I’d look at the bloke next to me and wonder “who the feck are you?” Had I been sober I would never have entertained him at my table let alone in my bed. Was I “raped?” I have no idea. I certainly wouldn’t have gone running off to the police on the off-chance I might have had sex while I was out of it. Mind you, the “compensation” might have come in handy.
I took a long look at myself and decided that it was time I sorted myself out and get some self respect. I stopped dressing the way I did, and I didn’t get off my face in the pub. I stopped flirting to boost my ego. Hey presto, no strange man in my bed, and the lewd comments I used to get decreased dramatically. Of course, there are men who will leer at any one and any thing. But I cut down my risk by changing my behaviour.
Personal Responsibility. It’s not a hard lesson to learn.
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September 2, 2015 at 1:01 pm -
Helga – Thank you for your comments. It is refreshing to read of a woman standing up and taking responsibility for her actions. I only wish all women were the same. The analogies of the handbag,purse and laptop are SOOOO true. We all like to pass the blame on to another person, or another persons actions.
There are bad men out there, but there are also a very large number of good genuine men. My partner is one of the later, but he supidly strayed away. Now the jealous OW has shouted rape – and we are currently waiting the outcome. Twice is bail has been changed at no notice, and we have our lives on hold.
Very hard times we live in, especially as there is the dreaded compensation. And with regard my partner, he will never be innocent. No mater what, he now has this charge on his file for life.
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September 2, 2015 at 1:04 pm -
If you need any help you can contact me via the website
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September 2, 2015 at 1:12 pm -
Spot on
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September 2, 2015 at 12:57 pm -
The whole “drink spiking” thing is so rare as to be urban myth. There was a study performed in UK a few years back that showed that of around 500 women that went to hospital claiming to have been spiked, about 1 had anything other than alcohol in their system
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September 2, 2015 at 1:57 pm -
Nice link the Pretenders track in your title.
Her solo album ‘Stockholm’ is worth a listen. No, I don’t get commission for selling it!
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September 2, 2015 at 2:41 pm -
I don’t think anybody else has posted this link to “Meet My Rapist”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bAAPkqn8Q0
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September 2, 2015 at 3:01 pm -
“Taking care” is, I think, something that only comes with experience — and advancing age! In our teens/early 20s, we’re know-it-alls, invincible, immortal. Which is not such a bad thing: the beneficial changes in society are frequently propelled by the untramelled energy of that age group. On the other hand, there are the raging hormones which mean that, in mixed company, dangerous risks may be taken. (That, too, is far from a new phenomenon. And the answer is certainly not strict segregation of the sexes: that leads to a whole other set of societal problems!)
I was probably a “feminist” long before the term was either defined or became fashionable. That said, I find it hard to comprehend the current hoo-ha about “victims” and their rights to financial restitution. Every single one of us, during our lives, has made dodgy decisions. Or, even more unfortunately, been in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, there is a huge difference between (a) a justifiable legal case, and (b) the ability to exact compensation, on the basis of unproven claim, from anyone and everyone, including the state.
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September 2, 2015 at 3:32 pm -
This seems like the right article on which to make a comment I’ve long been thinking about. I recall seeing a TV campaign a few years ago the gist of which was not to leave your valuables on open display in your car as this might tempt a thief. If that argument holds true, then why doesn’t the same apply to women who go out at night half naked, do they not run the risk of attracting rapists?
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September 2, 2015 at 10:22 pm -
I think the best thing I ever did to prevent one of my stepdaughters walking out of the house ‘dressed provocatively’, specifically a very brief crop top and ultra short bum revealing skirt, was to look up from the book I was reading, glance disinterestedly at her outfit and remark very quietly with a slight smile; “Builders cleavage, dear.”
She tried to look back over her shoulder at her bum, gave me a look of barely veiled horror, then ran upstairs and changed into something much less revealing before going out.
Now my question is this; did I save her from a fate worse than death or worse still? (If that is at all possible) I personally have no idea. Although I’m fairly certain my timely remark did save her from getting a nasty chill.
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September 8, 2015 at 8:46 pm -
I agree, excellent comments mad by both Helga and Lizzie
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