Something for the Weekend, Sir?
I don’t believe that I have ever had work that recognised such a thing as the weekend. If I did, it was a long time ago. The idea that a Saturday or a Sunday is something profound, or sacrosanct is as foreign to me as it is to anybody else who has ever worked in tourism, or catering, or transport, or a million other occupations that you expect to find functioning normally on your weekend.
Except falling sick, of course. Then you must understand that sickness is something that should occur during ‘normal’ working hours, during the ‘normal’ working week – it is not the same as an electricity supply, or a telephone, a policeman, or the lifeboat; all services that one takes for granted operate round the clock, every day of the week.
Sickness propels you into a world where you must understand that it.is.the.weekend. – and you must comprehend that the skeletal service you are receiving is only because the NHS.is.the.envy.of.the.world and thus a few low level staff have been forced to come into work on these two days owing to your inconsiderately falling sick at the weekend and you must not expect anything more than being ‘made comfortable’ whilst the week-end is observed.
Imagine going to MacDonald’s on Saturday lunchtime and being told that there is only bread and dripping available until Monday, and that if their chefs were required to work at the weekend ‘it would mean no chefs available on a Tuesday or Thursday’. This, in effect, is the NHS response to Jeremy Hunt suggesting that sickness should be at least a 7 day service if not a 24 hour service.
Where did this idea of an entitlement to ‘a weekend’ come from, and who decreed that it was a Saturday and a Sunday? Let’s start with the week.
‘One year’ measures the time between the first grains of wheat ripening – and the next time it happens, one year later; no difficulty in understanding that. A month is the time between one full moon and the next, we have preserved medieval man’s observance of that fact. A day even – the time between one setting sun and the next. But a week? What could have occurred once every seven days that needed its own description? If you can answer that one you have beaten learned academics who have been arguing over the week’s origins since the time of Dion Cassius.
It is believed that the Jews invented the seven days aspect of the week, by insisting that Jehovah had given them the seventh day, the sabbath, Saturday, as their own special day, for their own use. Naturally, the Christians decided that they should have a special day too, and so they selected Sunday. The notion of a weekend comprised of two non-working days appears to have been the result of an early example of multi-culturalism in America whereby mill workers of mixed religious beliefs demanded both Saturday and Sunday as days of rest. If that is so, we should shortly be including Fridays in the weekend…
Once upon a time, man and woman worked for so long as there were daylight hours, and stopped when darkness fell. Hence they worked longer in the summer than in the winter. Mr G, and thus I under marital enforcement rules, still observe this ancient custom. People try to phone us at 9pm in the evening and are surprised that we are fast asleep – dark innit? We in turn create confusion and panic by calling on friends at 7am on a summer’s day when we’ve already finished our tasks for the day. We may not be popular, but our electricity bills are so small, the electricity board come to our house specially to double check our meter…
When the rest of the world decided that they didn’t mind paying humongous electricity bills, it became necessary to limit the hours that employers expected a man to work by means as artificial as the daylight created by the new fangled electricity. 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week – neatly working out to be five days labour, and two days of rest – the weekend. Around the time that the NHS was dreamt up, as it happens.
That still doesn’t explain why the two days of rest have to be Saturday and Sunday – what’s wrong with Tuesday and Thursday?
- windsock
July 17, 2015 at 9:19 am -
Should schools also be 7 day events ?
Surely the recognition that people need time away from employment/education is a good thing? We are no longer an agrarian society ruled by diurnal events of sunrise and sunset (although I tend to live mostly like yourselves – early to be and early to rise), with little to do in the scant winter daylight apart from some weeding, mending hoes and ploughs, a bit of upkeep on the barn or sty or home, maybe a bit of weaving with a treddle powered spindle. But we have now moved into the post-industrial, in this country at ;east.
I would guess every reader here is a firm believer in “family”, as a concept, as a unit upon which society thrives, the quantum unit of civilisation. How is family to thrive unless all its members, children, parents (or even childrless partners) have common time together? How do you do that if four people in that unit all have different days off? Surely such a thing as a weekend helps to ensure this? Or do consultants or nurses not need that same facility? Already the governing philosophy is to get everyone back into work as soon as possible, even single mothers, and put the children into day care. That is not good for family cohesion, but once again economics seems to trump everything.
Maybe the answer is to let all people in relationships have weekends off, while all “singletons” work the inconvenient hours, where they can meet other unpartnered people and then move into more regular work once they are hitched. But that would seem a little overbearing, don’t you think?
- Magwitch
July 17, 2015 at 9:26 am -
Jeremy Hunt might also remind the NHS that people with mental health problems also require services at night as well as weekends. It is an appalling aspect of our envy.of.the.world health system that the mental health teams only seem to operate 8-4 Monday to Friday. The rest of the time it’s the ambulance service, police & A&E struggling to help these folk.
- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 9:45 am -
How much of all this just comes back to the Blair Witch Project’s “Agenda for Change” and those in the most senior roles being able to feather their own nests?
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/working-in-the-nhs/pay-and-benefits/agenda-for-change-pay-rates/
I worked in 7-day industry for many years and there was always pressure from your best employees to have the weekends off. This was often accommodated because there was always a readily available pool of casual labour at weekends. By agreeing to schedule all elective operations to Monday to Friday this would seem a perfectly reasonable approach, and of course once a Consultant realises they merely have to opt out of Emergency departments, the reasonable starts to lead to untenable consequences. Remember also the furore over doctor’s working hours and the rationalisations about exhausted interns making mistakes and leading to dangerously undefendable lawsuits.
- Moor Larkin
- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 9:31 am -
* If that is so, we should shortly be including Fridays in the weekend… *
That sounds like the acceptable face of Islamicisation…
- binao
July 17, 2015 at 9:45 am -
Having run & been involved in the running of manufacturing units operating 24/7; shutting down only for annual maintenance & Christmas, it’s easy to be scathing about the weekend culture. I’ve done the shifts myself from the bad old days(’60’s) of 12 hour 3 shift continental to more modern & humane offerings.
If you can have the weekend, fine, but there are just too many activities it doesn’t fit, from armed forces to medicine. Instead of whining about all the other services needed to support 24/7 medical care, the BMA should be taking a lead, saying let’s get on with it, we need to do this.
I have a lot of respect for the culture & performance change that is obvious to me as a too frequent nhs patient over the past couple of years.
I just think there’s unfinished business from 1948; we need to decide whether doctors & consultants are nhs employees or quasi private contractors.
Just my view.- Engineer
July 17, 2015 at 11:02 am -
For most of my design office existence, ‘normal office hours’ were worked, though I have done the occasional stint of shifts and seven-day working at various times. The Monday to Friday nine-to-five is actually a bit of a pain. Need to see the doctor? Time off work needed. Having a new sofa delivered? Time off work needed. Need to visit the bank or do some Christmas shopping? Saturday morning or not at all (though the rise of the Internet has eased that one a bit). Car needs servicing? Time off work again, or pay extra for collection and delivery. Doesn’t half eat into your holiday entitlement.
Those having scheduled days off Monday to Friday don’t know how lucky they are!
- Alex
July 17, 2015 at 11:48 am -
Continetal shift working was not confined to the 60’s. The last place I worked at 8 years ago the print room staff did continental shift patterns, mind you they were a lazy lot of bastards, and the perks and privleges they got was nobody’s business.
- binao
July 17, 2015 at 12:59 pm -
I bet they weren’t covering the 168 hours with three shifts either Alex. With 12 hour shifts.
- binao
- Engineer
- Alex
July 17, 2015 at 9:45 am -
windsock refers to schools and the fact that we are no longer an agrarian society. In that case please can all those in the education system fall in line and not have 7 week holidays in the summer? The long school holidays hark back to a time when children were needed to help bring in the harvest, so why do schools still have such long summer holidays?
I well remember attending the debates about Sunday trading at Conservative Party conferences. I always used to think that those who were opposed to changes in the law would no doubt be apoplectic if they were unable to use those services provided by all those Sunday workers.
As I understand it, for many people Saturday was a part of the normal working week until sometime in the 1960’s when unions campaigned for a shorter working week. Of course, when they got their way people still worked on a Saturday but at overtime rates.
Sunday was considered a special day because of our Christian heritage – and on the seventh day God rested and all that.
Nowadays the Sunday trading laws are a fiasco. I can go and buy item from the local Tesco Express from when they open at 7.00 am but have to wait until 10.00 am to shop at the bigger Sainsbury store. Although I can go into the Tesco Express at 7.00 am I can’t buy alcohol until 10.00 am – it’s a nonsense, typical of our laws made by our politicians.
Getting back to the NHS. I agree that something as necessary as healthcare should be a 24/7/365 service. Like you say Anna, what’s wrong with having a couple of other days off as happens in retail and many other businesses. When working hour reforms were introduced at BT there were many people who were more than happy to work on Saturdays and Sundays and have other days off.
- windsock
July 17, 2015 at 10:36 am -
I see the logic of that argument but the same opposition applies. Now schoola can ban children from going away during term time and parents can be fined for taking them to visit dying grandparents, when do you suggest parents can have extended “family time” with their children, expose them to new places and experiences or meet distant (physically, not emotionally) relatives?
- Alex
July 17, 2015 at 11:40 am -
I would have thought that say 3 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter and the normal half-term week long holidays would be plenty enough for anybody to do the things you list. After all many people are in jobs where they feel lucky if they get 30 days annual leave plus the bank holidays. For the cases of dying relatives and such they can always apply for compassionate leave. When I was growing up during the 50’s and 60’s it was very much frowned upon to be absent form work for the sort of trivial reasons people miss days now. For instance, a woman I worked with was a slacker, she had a day off because her son aged 23 had just broken up with his girlfriend. She also had days off to take numerous pets to the vet, and had the audacity to complain when she was interviewed and warned by management.
- Wigner’s Friend
July 17, 2015 at 1:14 pm -
When I lived in St Louis Mo in the 80s, for some reason there was a shortage of what we would call secondary schools (not teachers). The solution was that the kids were schooled 4 weeks on 2 weeks off, siblings being kept in the same time slot. This was fairly simple to manage and meant that there was no peak holiday season. It seemed to work well and reduced the need for expensive infrastructure.
- Wigner’s Friend
July 17, 2015 at 2:38 pm -
Should have said that at during any week, 2 groups were in school 1 group was off. Teachers were similarly divided so effectively worked the same amount but it was spread more evenly so that they could do their lesson prep and marking in the 2 weeks off every 6.
- Wigner’s Friend
- ivan
July 17, 2015 at 2:16 pm -
Alex, regarding education. Why not go to 4 terms per year with two weeks off between? The only problem with that idea is that the unions would go ape sh*t over it even though the kids would be better off – less time between learning periods to forget everything so far.
- Alex
July 17, 2015 at 7:59 pm -
Very sensible suggestion! It’s all too easy to say that it’s the kids that want/need the holidays, but like you say we all know it’s really the teachers that want the long breaks, and you are also correct to say that the unions would go ballistic.
- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 11:38 pm -
Isn’t Parliament just about to break up for the summer hols? I think it must be because the newspapers are already filling up with silly season stories about herring gulls.
- Moor Larkin
- Alex
- Wigner’s Friend
- Alex
- windsock
- woodsy42
July 17, 2015 at 9:49 am -
Well, Tuesday and Thursday would be rather inconvenient with a working Wednesday breaking them apart, but any two days together would be fine by me. Mind you I speak as someone who loathes football and sports, hates fetes and festivals, and has no appetite to mix with the droves of day-outers attending various public events, open days and the like – which are generally held at weekends. The ‘leisure’ industry needs to embrace non-Sunday one day activities to make a real 7 day system work.
- Alex
July 17, 2015 at 11:41 am -
I certainly would not advocate having split days as “weekends”. I don’t think it would be at all unreasonable to expect two consecutive days off.
- woodsy42
July 18, 2015 at 10:11 pm -
Tue and Thurs were the last line of the post. In fact the 7 days of the week are rather a problem. Personally I would much rather have worked 10 days on and 4 days off (or even 15/6) which allows a long enough ‘superweekend’ to visit people or go away and have a real break.
- woodsy42
- Alex
- corevalue
July 17, 2015 at 10:08 am -
My wife used to work in the NHS, doing 24 hour cover. She worked long, overnight shifts scheduled to cover all the days of the week, bank holidays as well. One of her colleagues belonged to a minor religion, and was able to claim that she could not be out after dark on Fridays, so she could never be rostered on the Friday night/Saturday morning shift. That meant my wife and her other colleagues had to work those shifts instead. So my wife wound up with
one Friday night in three free, and every other Saturday free.
I think employers should be allowed to reject any applicant roles for which require 24 hour coverage, for any reason, if they think the role cannot be properly fulfilled.
- Mrs Grimble
July 17, 2015 at 11:50 am -
“One of her colleagues belonged to a minor religion, and was able to claim that she could not be out after dark on Fridays”
Or she could simply not have taken a job that required working on Friday nights? She almost certainly belonged to one of the fundamentalist Jewish sects. They interpret the “no work on the Sabbath” rule as including switching on electric lights and similar equipment. Somebody has actually applied time and energy to come up with a solution to this distressing problem – the KosherSwitch!.- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 12:05 pm -
She almost certainly belonged to one of the fundamentalist Jewish sects.
Or one of the largest Xian Churches going (and one of the fastest growing) The Seventh Day Adventists. There used to be Seventh Day Baptists as well but they have now , i think, pretty much died out. Then again several other ‘Adventist’ groups also keep the Sabbath…..as do some of the Anabaptists.
- Mudplugger
July 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm -
She may not have been a fundamentalist, rather just an opportunist. If your ‘religion’ requires that you pray 5 times a day, that’s five more fag-breaks you can claim than your workmates: if it apparently inhibits working after dark on Friday, that’s just a convenient shuffle out of the nasty shifts.
No-one should be employed who cannot fulfil all the legal duties of the job, that includes those supermarket workers who decline to handle alcohol sales, medics declining to participate in abortions, etc. If your optional ‘religion’ matters so much to you, find a job where you can accommodate it, not where the job needs to change to accommodate you – you chose the religion, live with it.- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 12:22 pm -
The firm I work for requires you to sign a special page of Contract that you agree to work on a Sunday and this does not offend your beliefs. You are apparently free to not sign it, but nobody ever has refused; or at least nobody who works here has done so anyway.
- Moor Larkin
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Mrs Grimble
- Jim
July 17, 2015 at 10:21 am -
It’s a fun post to read, but one of the few of Anna’s where I am not sure it is tongue in cheek.
The same age where we worked from sun up till sun down and enjoyed nature’s fruits was also an age of extreme hardship and no health care for the majority.
The notion that people should have a special day in order to rest, pray, be with family, do nothing…it is not an evil notion. That we have lost it by traipsing off to Bluewater or suchlike isn’t the issue, you don’t pretend some value isn’t good just because many people choose not to live by it.
We have all seen that the number of people who attend GP and A&E services rises as the availability increases.
What right do we have to have our minor ailments seen to immediately? Where does it say that in the NHS constitution, or whatever?
We already have A&E open 7 days and 7 nights per week. We do not need to ask doctors and other staff to ignore the human need for rest, prayer, reflection, family time etc just because it is more convenient for someone to ask questions about their bad knee on a Sunday.
Jeremy hunt is playing with the public’s emotions over Health just as Osborne plays with them over economics.
We’ll survive. No need to bother with 7 day GP services.- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 10:32 am -
Given that the NHS is said to be potentially allocating 20% of it’s budget for corporate negligence claims, the risks of a law-suit because Cheryl and Shane arrived to find the hospital said nobody could see them, maybe it’s got less to do with politics and more to do with the tort laws leading the nation a merry dance.
- Mudplugger
July 17, 2015 at 12:29 pm -
Jeremy Hunt, despite his other manifold failings, is not suggesting that ALL NHS staff must work ALL weekends – he merely wants working patterns that deliver services when people need them. He is simply addressing a series of building-blocks which need to be in place to extend the period of operation – doctors/consultants are the first step, he needs to change their selfish contracts first, because without them he can not put the other follow-on pieces in place with support staff, systems etc.
The doctors, via the BMA, have held onto their ‘fistfuls of gold’ bribes which they were first given in 1948 just to enable the NHS to begin – no previous government has succeeded in, or had the balls for, changing the doctors’ terms and conditions.
On this occasion, I wish Jeremy Rhyming-Slang well with this challenge – if he succeeds, he will have established that the NHS is the ‘customer’ for medics’ professional services and, as such, can define what it wants to be delivered and when. If they don’t like it, they can go elsewhere.
- Moor Larkin
- Don Cox
July 17, 2015 at 10:24 am -
“Work expands to fill the time available for completion.”
As for school holidays — these are the best part of childhood. Taking them away would be cruel.
An efficient arrangement would be for schools and colleges to operate a four term year, with each student attending for two of the four terms. Teachers could opt to work for two or four — the former would suit teachers who have children of their own.
- rogerh
July 17, 2015 at 10:43 am -
When I were a lad having to work weekends meant you were in a rather inferior kind of job or were a professional attending on sufferance/duty or a workman on double time. Weekend working was something to be avoided. I rather worry that intelligent people will now start to avoid those professions where weekend working is mandated or double time is not paid. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
- Ms Mildred
July 17, 2015 at 10:44 am -
I worked shifts in the NHS that were the same from 1963 to 1993. Saturday and Sunday, then Thursday, Tuesday then weekend again. Halsbury reduced hours so we had a half day in front of each day off, in the mid seventies. We worked in pairs and covered for one another. Sometimes urgency took us out on our day off. I think a lot of Halsbury’ s very kind awards to nurses and midwives have been unstitched over the years. GP s have slid out of a lot of their obligations. As I understand it there is a lot of weekend treatment by appointment these days at hospitals. An increase in extreme elderly and drunks at the weekend have placed A&Es under heavy pressure. These are social developments that need an imaginative catch up. I thought that these high tech departments now run 24/7 locally for emergencies if there is an A&E on site. I took a neighbour to have a foot injection for plantar fasciitis recently to a local hospital on a Saturday. No treatment at all years ago when I was in excruciating pain limping around….treated as a joke disorder! So a little something at the weekend has improved in the foot area! The NHS is ruled by liability insurers, clipboard floozies and NWNF lawyers now….so do not expect any great improvement, as this nauseous trio are robbing the patients of money’s needed for staffing services 24/7.
- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 10:53 am -
* The NHS is ruled by liability insurers, clipboard floozies and NWNF lawyers now *
The new masters of the universe since the decline in banking.
- Moor Larkin
- Ed P
July 17, 2015 at 10:50 am -
The French revolution led to 10-day weeks (briefly).
It’s not just the NHS (Never Here Sunday?): Swiss & German trains run 24/7 (& are clean, reliable and cost less per mile travelled than ours).
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 6:43 pm -
German trains run 24/7 (& are clean, reliable and cost less per mile travelled than ours).
The last time there was much truth in that particular myth, it was still called the “Reichsbahn”
- The Blocked Dwarf
- ajexpbp
July 17, 2015 at 11:49 am -
I worked for a multi national chemical/industrial gases manufacturer/delivery company,and my working week was Wednesday to Sunday,Monday and Tuesday being the two days off. Guess what! we delivered to NHS hospitals over the weekend,and had been doing it for years,and that included for some, Christmas Day! NHS should get real,as you say it is mighty inconvenient to be ill at the weekend,or indeed seeing your GP at night or after hours. A protected species!
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 12:03 pm -
Once upon a time, man and woman worked for so long as there were daylight hours
FYI You are in Norfolk now, here the rule is still “a man do’h work from Sun ‘o Sun bu’ a woman’s work ois navver done” (“a man doth work from Sun to Sun but a woman’s work is never done”)
- JimS
July 17, 2015 at 12:10 pm -
As regards the reduced NHS at weekends there is also the matter of the NHS Christmas.
Miraculously patients find themselves suddenly fit to be sent home ‘for Christmas’ or, perhaps worse, their care goes on hold as there is no longer anyone available to assess the need for a change.
While they are at it they should end long shifts and replace them by ‘little and often’. Some nurses might benefit by spending a week as a till operator at Aldi and hospital chief executives should go ‘walk-about’ and perhaps ponder why it is necessary in some hospitals to wait to get another member of staff to give them access to the ward. Aldi could probably help on that too!
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 12:35 pm -
When they finally declare me King Of The World, His Imperial Majesty Short Shanks. My very first decree will be to abolish Sundays and Bank Holidays. Everyone will get ‘personal faith days’ (whether they have a faith or not). I loath Sundays and detest Bank Hoildays, the enforced idleness. A Norfolk Winter Bank Holiday makes me want to slash my wrists and the wrists of all the lazy “Workers” who think they have ‘earned’ it. Businesses should be allowed to open when they think best. “hard working british”? Don’t make me laugh. “Harder working, Industrious Germans”? Please excuse me while I go change my lederhose (Germans have even more Bank Holidays than the workshy Brits).
- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 12:50 pm -
I remember being on holiday in Italy in about 1987 and the shops would open and close throughout the day according to heat and sun levels. They reopened at about 9pm and the joint was jumping until about 1am, with molto trade being transacted. The chances of that sort of thing happening in Torquay seemed remote. I have recounted before my stopping at a restauarant pub in the New Forest around the same year, at about 3pm and my request for a sandwich being met with the very English riposte that Chef was back at 5…
Not sure about German bank holidays? Aren’t some of them taken in one State but not another? I do know that theirs follow a date, and are not invariably tied to a Monday. The Germans don’t have Sunday shopping, I do know that.
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 1:37 pm -
Not sure about German bank holidays? Aren’t some of them taken in one State but not another? I do know that theirs follow a date, and are not invariably tied to a Monday. The Germans don’t have Sunday shopping, I do know that.
Until very recently they didn’t even have Saturday afternoon shopping! I will never forget my sense of SHOCK as in 2012 I discovered the local Supermarket in Germany was open until 22:00 on a Saturday. Surely a foul beast of Worker Exploitation doth trample towards Berlin. I’m told the Government there is making moves to forbid it though. And yes you’re right about the Bank Holidays varying from State to State. Living in Hessia but working for a firm over the Bavarian Border meant I used to have to make sure that I was detailed in for a site where i could work Bank Holidays-partly on principle and partly because they paid me double. Who wants to sing songs with their children around some conifer when there is double paid work going? Not I said the Dwarf. Mutti can take the Kids Easter Egg hunting (it’s a German thang) , Daddy Dwarf had just put in a 16 hout shift guarding the Sultan Of Brunei’s Daughter’s ‘Twingo’ (ie the plane she takes for shopping trips to Paris) and was going to do the same again that night.
- JimH
July 19, 2015 at 9:08 am -
A friend once experienced the UKs ‘hospitality trade’ in the Lake District (I think) – he ordered a hot pudding after his evening meal, only to be told he couldn’t have one as ‘the microwave has already been cleaned, and we don’t want to have to clean it again.’
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Moor Larkin
- Joe Public
July 17, 2015 at 1:43 pm -
Alternatively, “retire”, and every day is a ‘weekend’.
- binao
July 17, 2015 at 2:02 pm -
Every day is a bank holiday too!
- Engineer
July 17, 2015 at 2:09 pm -
But, on the other hand, you never get a day off…..
- binao
July 17, 2015 at 8:08 pm -
No idea how I found time to go to work- so much to do.
- Engineer
July 18, 2015 at 8:01 am -
I once bumped into a retired former colleague, who claimed that not only did he not understand how he found time to go to work, but he didn’t understand how he could afford to either. All those commuting miles on the car, wearing out smart(ish) jackets and shirts…..
- Engineer
- binao
- Engineer
- binao
- Daft Lassie
July 17, 2015 at 2:35 pm -
Dion Cassio? Was that the Dion who was The Wanderer? Interestingly, (in verse 2) he has ‘Mo on my left’ – how prescient!
- Andrew Duffin
July 17, 2015 at 3:35 pm -
@Moor Larkin, Italy is still like that. The shops open from 8-ish till 1-ish, then everyone goes off for a sleep. They re-open at 5 or so in the afternoon, until 8 or 9 at night. At least, that’s what happens in proper Italy, I am not sure about workaholic madhouses like Milan. And supermarkets everywhere are always an exception.
If you lived in that climate, you’d do the same; one soon learns.
But mostly they don’t open on Sundays, iirc. Except obvious tourist shops and so on.
- Michael
July 17, 2015 at 3:48 pm -
The seven-day week, and indeed the Sabbath does indeed stem from the Levitical law, which, in turn is based on the six days of creation, followed by one day of rest. The fact that, of all the laws of the Old Testament, honouring the Sabbath made it into the Top Ten of commandments (at number 4, above murder, adultery, and theft) tells you something of the importance in which it was held.
It is also why, during the French Revolution, France decided to set itself against all things religious by dispensing with the seven day week in favour of a “rational” ten-day system. There was something curiously Orwellian about the whole exercise; even the days were named themselves after their ordinal position in the week (“first day”, “second day”, etc). This, being out of tune with the rhythm of the Universe did not last.
Of the NHS and other caring professions, I can understand the wishes of the staff to take a regular Sunday off, but as Jesus made a point of healing on the Sabbath I don’t think they’ve got much of a case on religious grounds.- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 5:27 pm -
The seven-day week, and indeed the Sabbath does indeed stem from the Levitical law
Actually the 7 day week goes back so far that no one can say who first came up with it…a lunar ‘month’ has ca. 28 days and a week is a quarter moon. The ‘Jewish’ Sabbath was old before Leviticus was written.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Cascadian
July 17, 2015 at 4:05 pm -
Several here have outlined a multitude of reasons why scheduling staff can be very difficult, not even mentioned is coverage for sick staff especially where “backup” is required for each member perhaps due to security or safety. Does anyone really believe with limited medical resources (both nurses and doctors) that the NHS is capable of resolving the issue of 24/7/365 care throughout the system? The best that will be achieved is probably some minute improvement over the present imperfect situation. Until a major improvement in training enough doctors and nurses is implemented, very little can be done, certainly the intervention of a plonker such as Hunt will not help.
While the landlady makes an earnest plea, I would suggest that a better target might be provision of better care for all during the entrenched five-day week, once that is achieved thoughts as to how weekend care can be improved would be beneficial.
- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 4:43 pm - Engineer
July 17, 2015 at 5:59 pm -
Picture the scene. The office of the Chief of the Defence Staff, 5pm Friday evening. The ‘phone rings. It’s the Prime Minister.
“Look, sorry old chap, but I’ve just had a call on the hotline from Moscow. Putin’s given notice that he’s declaring war. Can you get our aircraft carrier and Tiger Moth busy?”This utterly confuses the CoDS. “What? Can’t you ring them back and tell them to wait until Monday? We’re all shut down for the weekend….”
As the Landlady gently pointed out, we have 24/7/365 electricity, telephones, petrol stations, lifeboats – you name it. If they can manage it, why can’t the doctors?
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 6:27 pm -
- Engineer
July 17, 2015 at 7:05 pm
- Engineer
- Mudplugger
July 17, 2015 at 6:54 pm -
The very best example of 24/7/365 is the mains gas supply.
We’ve all had our electricity, water or phone service suddenly fail on occasions, but the chances are no-one here has ever experienced a mains-gas failure. That’s because the background folk at Gas know that any major pressure-drop could be destructive and fatal, so they put extreme (but invisible) measures in place to make sure it never happens – and because it’s both invisible and so successful, no-one ever appreciates it.
If only the NHS operation was organised by the quality of dedicated engineering managers behind the mains gas supply, this debate would be redundant.- Engineer
July 17, 2015 at 7:06 pm -
Good point. There’s a lot goes on that keeps the country going that very few appreciate…..
- Engineer
- The Blocked Dwarf
- binao
July 17, 2015 at 8:42 pm -
Cascadian, just remember that the BMA is a trade union, all of which, regardless of their noble beginnings, are resistant to progress or change. (just a view from a lifetime in industry, admittedly not healthcare). Managing shifts & cover is an accepted routine for every continuous process industry, for supermarkets, whatever, and it includes ‘professionals’. The BMA seems to think it’s professionals are above that, & need to be dragged into the 21st century- the latter half of the 20th would be a start.
The changes I’ve seen in the past year or three in my area weren’t as far as I know driven by the BMA, yet these are the health professionals. As I’ve said before , unfinished business from 1948.
It is broke; it does need fixing..- Moor Larkin
July 17, 2015 at 9:41 pm -
Thursday 1 June 2000
“Hospital consultants will today slam the brakes on Tony Blair’s “big idea” for the NHS by throwing out proposals for flexible working that would be central to the goal of abolishing waiting lists. The British Medical Association’s annual consultants’ conference looks certain to reject the idea of a new grade of specialist doctor who would work alongside consultants and take on much of their clinical work. Delegates are also expected to attack suggestions that consultants could be required to work at nights and weekends, and even stay overnight at hospitals, in order to meet demand for round-the-clock surgery. But consultants’ leaders, wary of again being cast as the “forces of conservatism”, last night mounted a damage limitation exercise. They stressed that they stood ready to negotiate reform in the context of a “consultant delivered” service. Peter Hawker, who chairs the BMA’s consultants’ committee, said: “I doubt very much that change will pose us too many problems.” - Cascadian
July 17, 2015 at 10:58 pm -
It would appear that I made my point very badly (not the first time). I am sympathetic to the idea that the NHS needs to be dragged into the 21st century, and should be judged from a benchmark of private sector service availability not to pre 1948 medical standards.
Of course the NHS should be aiming for 24/7/365 coverage of services, and as you point out that can be achieved where there is a will and adequate resources (trained personnel-not money as most would argue). My major point is that there are inadequate personnel (skills and numbers of trained people), whilst your major point seems to be that there is inadequate will to implement change. I suspect we are both correct to a certain degree.
As you say the NHS is broke, and it does need fixing, I was commenting that the fix needs to start at 24/5/365 service before you even think of 24/7/365 service, purely because the task is so monumental.
Perhaps if I had family members suffering at the hands of the NHS I would be more strident.
- Engineer
July 18, 2015 at 7:53 am -
As one of my former project managers was wont to say, “We don’t want problems, we want solutions.” I rather think the Great British Public would agree, especially the ones at risk of a heart attack on a Friday afternoon. When we’re paying for the NHS, we don’t get cheap rates at weekends – it’s the same price all week.
- Engineer
- Moor Larkin
- Moor Larkin
- Robert Edwards
July 17, 2015 at 4:19 pm - Carol42
July 17, 2015 at 4:30 pm -
My husband had the misfortune to have an accident on 1st January 2007, the ambulance was quick but there were no senior doctors or consultants on duty. The two young doctors didn’t seem to know what to do and there was no staff for an MRI, I was told he was unlikely to survive his serious head injury. He died 22 hours later without ever seeing a senior Dr, or Consultant. Whether it would have made any difference I will never know, I was in such a state of shock I couldn’t think straight at the time but I will always wonder.
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 17, 2015 at 6:32 pm -
That.Is.Heart.Breaking. /end
- The Blocked Dwarf
- James Sykes
July 17, 2015 at 7:06 pm -
Funny that hospital consultants can work weekends when it’s private work.
- Stewart Cowan
July 17, 2015 at 8:17 pm -
“But a week? What could have occurred once every seven days that needed its own description?”
Creation week; it only happened once, of course. But we are supposed to work for six days and take one day off, not two. And a day is sunset to sunset, not midnight to midnight: where did that idea come from? The first clockmakers’ trade society?
And it seems to me that Christians have been led astray. I have never found any scriptural evidence that the seventh day Sabbath was to have been dispensed with: it is a Commandment to keep it holy and refrain from work.
As I wrote a few days ago, it was the Emperor Constantine who, after he allegedly became a Christian, kept his “venerable day of the sun” as the ‘Christian’ day of rest.
Sunset here is 9:47pm – in about an hour-and-a-half – and I shall avail myself of the Almighty’s gift of rest.
- The Blocked Dwarf
July 18, 2015 at 12:19 am -
I have never found any scriptural evidence that the seventh day Sabbath was to have been dispensed with:
That’s because there isn’t any. I don’t think even the most Ardent Sunday-ists would claim there was.
Emperor Constantine who, after he allegedly became a Christian,
It gets better, he put off getting baptized until he was on his death bed (not an unusual practice back then though) and then he was baptized an Arian -whom most of modern Christianity would not consider Christian.
- Stewart Cowan
July 18, 2015 at 4:51 am -
When I have discussed this with Baptists, they bring up the couple of instances in Paul’s epistles when the apostles met on the first day of the week as “proof” that they are right. It reminds me of the Mormons misusing the quote about being baptized for the dead which they incorporated into their theology – an eclectic mixture of Freemasonry, Paganism, “Christianity” and whatever bizarre notions and carnal desires the “prophets” were “inspired” to declare as doctrine.
I met lots of nice folk in the couple of years I was in the cult – the missionaries ensnared me by misquoting a scripture which struck a chord – and they caught me at a very low ebb in my life.
I didn’t know that about Constantine. The Mormons have an even more heretical view of God. They think He was once a man and that we can become gods.
The current Mormon President and ‘Prophet’, Thomas S. Monson, was speaking at a ‘Priesthood’ meeting I attended in Dundee while he was a ‘Counselor’ to Gordon B. Hinckley. I have never felt such an evil presence from another human being as I did from Monson. Maybe he’s not human?
- Stewart Cowan
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Rob J
July 17, 2015 at 10:30 pm -
Most NHS workers work all hours and days. Its the medical profession – The Consultants in particular who have called their own shots for years. When I worked in the Mental Health side of the NHS, our consultant was only on the premises for about 10 hours a week. He was about 65 but still took more ‘study days’ than the rest of us. He also did lots of private work.
- Bernard from Bucks
July 18, 2015 at 7:38 am
{ 71 comments… read them below or add one }