Savile – the Mail on Sunday Investigation continues…
- Former cancer patient who said Savile saved her life now wants £60,000 for ‘sex abuse’ in latest questionable claim against his estate
- Claim one of many being laid against Savile’s estate found to be questionable
- Woman was a former cancer patient who once thanked him for helping to save her life
- Comes after it was revealed his great-niece is also have alleged to have made fraudulent claim
A former cancer patient who wrote to Jimmy Savile and thanked him for helping to save her life is claiming £60,000 damages for what she claims was a series of sexual assaults.
Her claim is one of many being laid against Savile’s estate which a Mail on Sunday investigation has found to be questionable.
Last month this newspaper revealed that West Yorkshire Police were investigating allegations that Savile’s great-niece, Caroline Robinson, is fraudulently claiming compensation for supposed assaults by Savile when she was 12 and 15.
The former patient wrote to Savile, pictured, and thanked him for helping to save his life. She is now claiming £60,000 worth of damages for what she claims was a series of sex assaults
The Mail on Sunday revealed last month there have been a series of questionable claims against the Savile estate
The inquiry was triggered by statements from close family members, including her daughter, Samantha Smith. A police spokesman said yesterday that the investigation is continuing.
Legal restrictions mean those who say they were victims of sexual crimes must remain anonymous, unless they waive their anonymity, as Ms Robinson did.
This means we cannot name the former cancer patient. But of the 211 claims for payments from Savile’s estate which have been lodged under a compensation scheme approved in February by the High Court, hers is one of the strangest.
Savile’s great-niece Caroline Robinson, who is alleged to have fraudulently claimed compensation for supposed assaults
Before Savile’s death in 2011, she wrote warmly of their long bedside conversations when she was at death’s door, saying how grateful she was that he treated her as someone with hopes, dreams and a future.
After his death, she ran short of money, and wrote a begging letter to the Savile Trust, the charity to which he left almost all his £4.7 million fortune.
It responded with a donation of £2,500. ‘Joyful news that Jimmy’s trust is going to help my determined mission to stay alive,’ she said in a thank-you note.
But now the same woman is claiming Savile sexually assaulted her numerous times in BBC dressing rooms and at his London flat.
Those who saw the pair together say they are astonished.
‘We spent an afternoon together, and she spoke of Jimmy with deep affection. I simply can’t believe he had been sexually assaulting her,’ said David Gloan, a music promoter who was Savile’s friend.
The woman’s mother initially promised to relay a statement from her to The Mail on Sunday, but later said this would not be possible.
Another questionable claim is from a man who says he visited Savile’s Leeds penthouse flat in December 1975 when he was a paperboy, to collect his Christmas bonus. Savile did not move into this flat until 1986.
This week, the Court of Appeal will hear a submission from the Savile Trust that the compensation scheme be quashed.
Its solicitor, Jo Summers, said: ‘The scheme seems designed to give money to anyone who claims they were abused, with minimal due diligence. We hope the Court of Appeal will address these concerns.
‘Otherwise, no one’s estate will be safe when they die.’
- The Jannie
November 2, 2014 at 11:44 am -
These people are like those relatives who strip a deceased person’s home before they’ve gone cold.
- Frankie
November 2, 2014 at 11:45 am -
Once he lawyers have had their fees the ‘victims’ will get next to nothing… what a shame.
- Frankie
November 2, 2014 at 11:46 am -
Should be ‘the lawyers’… no breakfast.
- Jim Bates
November 2, 2014 at 12:43 pm -
Couldn’t resist it …
‘Don’t you mean no tea?’I’ll get me coat ….
- Ellen Coulson
November 2, 2014 at 1:02 pm -
The claimants should be made to pay the lawyers’ fees.
- Ellen Coulson
- Jim Bates
- suffolkgirl
November 2, 2014 at 12:27 pm -
Definitely a result for Anna and everyone else who has plugged away at this story, as well as David Rose. It’s a pity that the Mail doesn’t learn from this by treating the story of the so-called Dickens’ ‘dossier’ of claims of sex abuse by a mysterious elite with more suspicion. And as we seem to be stuffing the ‘overarching’ inquiry into abuse claims with people who have already made up their minds there doesn’t seem much hope of an honest appraisal there. Still, it’s a victory in the battle against mass hysteria so, bravo!
- Carl
November 2, 2014 at 5:24 pm -
Note both rejected chairs of enquiry apologised for not having the confidence of the ‘victims’ no mention of the word ‘alledged’ Seems the conclusion is pre-determined, who ever chairs. Peter Saunders demands that enquiry be ‘survivor led’ again result pre-determined. Interestingly Mr Saunders would appear to have taken advantage of the new european privacy laws, google Peter Saunders NAPAC and every result page carries the ‘some results may have been removed due to eurpoean privacy law’ message.
- Mrs Grimble
November 2, 2014 at 5:49 pm -
“nterestingly Mr Saunders would appear to have taken advantage of the new european privacy laws, google Peter Saunders NAPAC and every result page carries the ‘some results may have been removed due to eurpoean privacy law’ message.”
When that happens, I switch to the Duckduckgo search engine. It’s based in the US, so isn’t subject to EU laws. - Moor Larkin
November 2, 2014 at 5:51 pm -
Saunders’ story has changed several times over the years, but our brave UK Free Press protects him well.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-insistence-of-memory.html
and
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/weirdo.html- carl
November 3, 2014 at 4:02 pm -
Moor Another person being protected ( post-mortem) is Geoffrey Dickens and his so called ‘Dossier’ I can remember his rather extreme views on several topics, especially homosexuality, with even a bit of witchcraft thrown into the pot. This very alterative site gives rather a succinct precis of Mr Dickens predilection for conspiricy theories., his hatred for and fear of gays, and his campaign to retain/renew the last laws against witchcraft. Many of my generation in parliament and the media must be perfectly aware of all this information, yet appear to prefer to sit on their hands while another 21st century witch hunt gets under way.
http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/dickens.htm
- Rocky Racoon
November 6, 2014 at 11:27 pm -
Don’t forget his claim he was on a ‘hitman’s list’ for his campaign against abusers, but when you read the details you realise that wasn’t the case.
I do love the story about his affair, making a surprise announcement to the press first and then saying he needs to tell his wife. Does anyone know what the ‘tea dances’ were about is that where he met his lady friends?
- Rocky Racoon
- carl
- Duncan Disorderly
November 3, 2014 at 12:38 pm -
How many eminent QCs will not be ‘linked’ in some way to ‘the establishment’?
- Peter Raite
November 3, 2014 at 6:53 pm -
Hardly any, which is the real problem. It’s pretty obviously that the alleged victims don’t want impartiality, they want someone who is clearly and unequivocally on their side, and I would hazard a guess that they’ll find some stick or other to beat and candidate not to their liking, as they have already done twice.
- Peter Raite
- Mrs Grimble
- Carl
- Fat Steve
November 2, 2014 at 12:38 pm -
Well Anna its difficult not to conclude that you have played a significant role in recent developments on the Savile front for which gratitude and respect is your proper due.
On a more general note its also difficult not to conclude that some in Society such as this most recent claimant or victim (depending on ones perception of such people) have had any moral anchor (any true sense of self worth?) they may have possessed washed away and are like boats buffeted by the winds and dragged by the tides of other peoples agendas be they political, financial, simply personal or whatever. Ultimately one is tempted to feel sorrow for them but its a self indulgent temptation I think and I am not sure I can quite get there because of the price they so carelessly extract from others with their distortion and debasement of the truth. I suppose I rather foolishly thought such people were a rarity and easily spotted but I suspect as in many things I was wrong - GildasTheMonk
November 2, 2014 at 12:40 pm -
Ambulance chasing lawyers, a compensation culture. Results: predictable.
- Fat Steve
November 2, 2014 at 2:03 pm -
@Gildas —Predictable—- but not inevitable —and undesirable unless the only measure of what is desirable is its potential to excite and entertain —-and to financially reward for that excitement and entertainment as an end in itself—-and yes the lawyers are in a sense the producers of the entertainment in that they provide the theatre where the entertainment takes place and the press receives its slice for publicising it.
- Fat Steve
- IlovetheBBC
November 2, 2014 at 12:49 pm -
I’m sure you bright people have noticed this before, but I have just seen this link on Twitter. I’m gobsmacked. Can these people not do simple maths ? http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/scarred-for-life-woman-molested-in-salford-1210155 45 years old? It happened 47 years ago! Allegedly.
- Moor Larkin
November 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm -
when we read the story about Christine Williams, assumedly a victim of “the paedo ring”, it turns out that not only did she never go to Top of the Pops, but she was actually 17 and pregnant. She may well have engaged in sex before the age of consent (to be pregnant at 17) but she makes no allegation that Jimmy Savile was responsible for that. A few weeks later she says her baby was stillborn, yet it was Jimmy Savile who ruined her life apparently. I feel quite sorry for the woman. The Sun relegated her sorry tale to the bottom part of the page.
The Manchester Evening News made even more of a hash of it. They mixed up the number of years since the alleged incident with Christine’s age, resulting in this farcical numerical conundrum.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/recycling.html- Hadleigh Fan
November 2, 2014 at 9:27 pm -
Moor Larkin, To be pregnant at 17, Christine Williams could not have been impregnated before she was 16 – the age of consent, as a human gestation period is less than a year. She could have lost her cherry at any age, of course. Now, if she was an elephant ….
- Mudplugger
November 2, 2014 at 11:16 pm -
But, if we’re getting picky, we do not know that this was her first pregnancy: she may have been successfully impregnated one or more times before the particular pregnancy to which the story refers, any of which gestations could have commenced before the age of consent was attained.
- Mudplugger
- Hadleigh Fan
- Ripper
November 3, 2014 at 6:33 am -
According to the woman’s picture, either her age in the article is a mistake, or she’s had a very hard life.
- Moor Larkin
- Robert Edwards
November 2, 2014 at 2:05 pm -
Well, we read it here first. I am not surprised that the upcoming child abuse enquiry is having trouble finding someone to head it; if this Savile matter starts to unravel then I find it hard to imagine that it will ever gain any serious traction. Which is a shame, as it clearly needs addressing…
- jS
November 2, 2014 at 5:04 pm -
The other problem is that the priority in the whole area has become about satisfying the victims – real and not so real. Nothing other than complete and utter pandering to victims groups would be acceptable to many of the most vociferous. Of course this potentially trashes the rights of the accused but for many that is a bonus.
One of the least mentioned aspects of the whole Yewtree fiasco is that it has been a useful tool for those who would like accusation to equal conviction when it comes to sex cases. It’s a thin end of a wedge to “convict” a dead man with no ability to defend himself and no serious investigation. Others have been convicted recently on slim to no evidence other than the word of a single person.
Anyone who takes on the poisoned chalice of the child abuse inquiry must know by now that any hint of even-handedness towards accused or nod towards “innocent until proved otherwise” will have them loudly branded as running an Establishment cover-up and smeared as a friend of child abusers. This should dissuade anyone other than the exceptionally brave or those for whom bias against the accused is just fine.
Hopefully one day the balance will tip back towards court cases and inquiries being about what is right for society in general rather than being solely about what will satisfy alleged victims, but until then I’m afraid we are in for a lot of miscarriages of justice.
- jS
- alan1803
November 2, 2014 at 4:51 pm -
Anybody with legal knowledge spotted this: “Legal restrictions mean those who say they were victims of sexual crimes must remain anonymous”. Doesn’t this only apply from the time when someone is charged? In this case, nobody can be. (e.g. When teacher disappears with 15-year-old pupil, her name is all over the papers as they look for her, but she becomes “she who cannot be named for legal reasons” when the hapless pedagogue gets nicked.)
Interestingly enough, the Mail’s website manages to name the complainant in the one case where Dave Lee Travis was found guilty.
- Carol42
November 2, 2014 at 7:19 pm -
We can only be grateful that at least someone is finally looking at this whole fiasco, no doubt thanks to you Anna. With luck maybe some of the others will take it up if only not to be left behind.
- Joe Public
November 2, 2014 at 8:20 pm -
Anna, your and other regular contributors’ detailed input into this investigation, will not be unrecognised by your readership.
- JuliaM
November 3, 2014 at 8:01 am -
Seconded.
- JuliaM
- Lisboeta
November 2, 2014 at 9:26 pm -
Anna, you truly deserve an award! But, alas, the world being the way that it is, you won’t get one.
I’ve lost count of the number of times when the topic of Jimmy Savile has cropped up in conversation with family, friends and acquaintances and, regardless of their preferred MSM news sources, they all seem to be convinced — without viable evidence — that he’s the 20th century’s worst serial sex offender. I’ve tried pointing them in the direction of your blog (and that of others, such as Moor Larkin). It’s a seemingly futile exercise. From their viewpoint, blogs cannot be trusted in the same way as the MSM. And that’s the point at which words fail me!
Anyway, I thank you (and other truth-seekers) for your continuing vigilance.
- GildasTheMonk
November 2, 2014 at 10:23 pm -
After the omnishambles that has been the farcical inquiry into the alleged cover up by “the Establishment” of Satanism, Sexual Abuse and Cannibalism (or something) “the Establishment” has turned itself in knots, because, of course, “the Establishment” can only have one of its own in charge. It does not know or perceive of anyone else. These are the Little People, whom it is their self appointed job to rule. That includes, by the way, such such alleged rebels as Micheal Mansfield QC – a darling of the Left, Nu-Labor and thus of “the Establishment”.
A High Court Judge? Who do you think “the Establishment” are? And, as someone pointed out on my Twitter time line this morning, alsmots all are former barristers – with no experience of hands on investigation.
Of course, our landlady would be suitable – but as she is not a credulous “on message” buffoon – no chance.
I recommend my cat.- suffolkgirl
November 3, 2014 at 12:53 am -
The trouble is that anyone with a clear understanding of the basic principles of natural justice is likely to be someone coming from a legal background and thus someone from ‘the establishment’. I wish the so called ‘ ‘Little People’ were more clued up, but they aren’t. One basic rule of natural justice is precisely that you don’t both investigate and sit in judgement on the results of your investigation, and the fact that your Twitter followers don’t grasp that tells me that they really haven’t understood what the role of the Chair of an inquiry is all about. By all means beef up the powers of this inquiry – to include compelling witnesses if need be, but don’t confuse the roles of investigator and decision maker.
These (English) principles of natural justice pre date any ideas of human rights by many centuries, so I would be very reluctant to see them being thrown on the scrap heap for a bit of popularism – court of public opinion Harriet Harman style. I’m all for casting the net wider, especially as no one reputable seems to want to touch the role with a barge pole – but just who do you have in mind? - Engineer
November 3, 2014 at 12:47 pm -
If inquiries such as this are to carry any weight at all, they must surely be carried out by someone, as far as this is possible, calm, dispassionate and independent. I may be doing the man a disservice (not being of the legal profession), but what I know of Mansfield would tend to suggest that he’s in the egotistical, self-aggrandising show-off bracket rather than the calm and dispassionate one – entirely the wrong sort of character to lead any public investigation.
I know this won’t happen in a million years, but why not look to the upper reaches of other professsions? There are plenty of medics, engineers, academics, teachers and businessmen at the end of careers with long experience of dealing with the vagiaries of human nature, and well versed in seeking support and advice from people more experienced than they in specialist matters (such as the law). Whether such people would be willing to take on such a role is, of course, another matter…
- Moor Larkin
November 3, 2014 at 1:43 pm -
Shami Chakrabati would be perfect. She doesn’t seem to have anything else to do these days and Liberty would be the perfect vehicle to dis-establish the Paedophile Disestablishmentarianism and ensure Human Rites prevail.
- suffolkgirl
- Ian Hills
November 2, 2014 at 11:56 pm -
Sorry, I’m a bit out of touch – but when did Parliament enact this compensation scheme? The High Court seems to have taken it on itself to set this up, despite not convicting Savile of anything.
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 1:38 am -
OK, in simplistic terms. This is not any sort of Government issue. JS’s estate is managed by the Trustees department of a major international bank. His will left the estate’s realisable assets to a charity he had set up, some of which was apparently expected to go to Britain’s war wounded etc
After he died, and his purported paedosexualbarbarianism was broadcast to the world and his wife, a whole load of people suddenly appeared to claim that they were victims of his flagrant sexual aggression, rather than his renowned charitable activities and profligacy
As you might expect, a load of lawyers corralled these people into one – or maybe more, who’s counting? – groups to stake a claim on the estate’s dosh. Now, that might be fine if you could expect that the legal beagles would sniff out real truth and justice. Hah! The only person who gives an aerial act of copulation about those is Clark Kent, and that’s only because he ate too much of Martha’s apple pie.
Those who deal with civil cases of this type tend pursue ‘deals’, ie where the best outcome is that those claiming get the most possible while, simultaneously, those facing the claims pay out the least they can get away with all – and probably most importantly – without having to go to court to prove any of this in very expensive court proceedings. Also, it is probably in the interests of those at the receiving ends of such claims to make them ‘go away’ as soon as possible. Like yesterday. Same with the politicians. An acquaintance of JS? Not me, gov.!
Justice, in the sense that the reality of what actually happened is tested, doesn’t get much of a look in, and is often to be avoided wherever possible
So, it would appear that the lawyers came up with the sort of ‘compensation scheme’ you mention. The sort of generic settlement you might find in cases like this would be something like: the claimants will get a fixed sum, and their lawyers a fee per claimant – as ever, the exact details will vary, and they may well not be, or ever intended for, the public domain
What seems to have upset this applecart, and potentially risked, a little, the sort of juicy content that it might, is that the ‘Charity’ trustees, to whom the ‘estate’s’ assets should have gone, seem to have objected to the compensation scheme – quite rightly, as they have a legal obligation to protect what should otherwise be the charity’s assets’ – on the basis that it might well be paying out on unfounded claims.
Shrieks of horror! The victims must be believed! But of course, where claimants might get such anonymity, this can only be better for the lawyers (shurely shome mistake?), as who can possibly prove that their claimant ‘nobody’, had ‘nothing’ done to them?
As the landlady here, and David Rose in the Mail, have researched, there might well be grounds for considerable doubt about what might be being claimed for.
And if the claimants – as might reasonably be assumed – consist of much the same cadre of people as the list of ‘victims’ passed to the NHS to investigate and have, at great expense to the taxpayer, reported on, well!.
Moor Larkin in his blog has trawled in detail through the NHS reports, the landlady has provided details of others, and you would have to be amongst the most credulous people in the entire country to believe that all of those alleging that ‘crimes’ that had been purportedly committed against them had, in some cases, actually happened, in others that if an assailant really did exist that it could conceivably ever have been JS , or that, what was being presented as a ‘crime’, was then, is now, and while I would dearly like to say “ever shall be”, unfortunately, if some of the more demented members of our present day society have their way, actually may become so at some future date.
TL;DR. Parliament had nothing to do with this. It’s a civil law issue, where ‘right’ is ‘might’. Lack of conviction of JS, while alive, for anything is irrelevant. So, too, is now proving that he actually did anything to anyone. Bottom line is that if people believe everything they are being told about JS’ purported past misdemeanours, either what is said for or against, without properly checking the facts and then applying some sensible judgement and discernment, they’re idiots. And, with the world being full of those, and when the legal system is prepared to acquiesce in what seems to be similar such behaviour, what chance have any of us got?
- Ho Hum
- Ian B
November 3, 2014 at 3:05 am -
I am inclined to think that we need something in law to the effect that a civil claim cannot be made regarding a criminal act, unless the criminal act itself has been tried and convicted in a criminal court. The Civil Law was surely never meant to address criminal acts, which is why it is called Civil and why it has a different standard of proof; it is meant to resolve disagreements as an arbitrator, not decide the guilt or innocence of people accused of criminal acts. Who may be dead.
And I still don’t understand how a charity can be responsible for the actions of Savile anyway. This isn’t Savile’s money, is it? It’s the charity’s, isn’t it?
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 3:33 am -
No. His money at death, and anything realised since from his other property, goods chattels and intangibles, is part of the assets of his estates. The Trustees of his estate, presumably appointed as such in his will, are obliged to meet all prior claims against his estate before paying his beneficiaries, ie those we willed it to, or who, in the absence of a will, are those entitled to it in the normal order of preference.
But his charity trustees, an altogether different body of people who manage that, separate, legal entity are in a cleft stick. They are obliged to act in the charity’s best interests, and those are to oppose any distribution by the trustees of his will if they think that they would make payments to any other claimant if those claims were not clearly absolutely justifiable, which would diminish the amounts to which the charity has a proper entitlement under his will
So what would you do in these circs if you were in their shoes?
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 3:37 am -
Should have made it clear that the charity is a beneficiary and so ranks behind the alleged abuse claimants. Beneficiaries only get what’s left. And at the rate this was going, if unchallenged, that looked like it was going to be diddly squat, and may yet be
- Ian B
November 3, 2014 at 4:46 am -
I am not a lawyer and all that, but I don’t see how it can be just that a claim can be made. If there were a claim prior to his death, fair enough. But after his death, after the money had gone to the charity, surely it should be “too late, missed the boat”. That is, there was no prior claim on his estate, at the time his estate was executed. They’re clawing this money back from the charity, are they not?
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 10:15 am -
No. The charity has never yet had the money, so nothing is being ‘clawed back’.
And what may seem to be ‘naturally just’, as I outlined somewhat cynically above, is totally irrelevant
- Ho Hum
- Ian B
- Ho Hum
- Ho Hum
- Jim Bates
November 3, 2014 at 9:58 am -
If any claim can, on the information presented, be proven to be false isn’t that fraud? Under such circumstances would there not be reason to charge them (and possibly also their representatives) with a crime? If they are subsequently found guilty then at the very least their anonymity could be removed and thus prevent them from trying it again.
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 10:21 am -
Prosecute the ‘victims’? What an odd notion.
Might I be overly cynical, in expecting such to be likely to ‘not be in the public interest’?
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 10:31 am -
Taking my tongue out of my cheek, it would have some merit in potentially deferring the more delinquent amongst potential claimants, but at a time when ‘victim encouragement’ is being treated as something good in itself, it’s hard to see such prosecutions being ‘politically popular’
And, anyway, looking broader than just JS, they are not really likely to deter the more weird, wonderful, whacky, or just downright malevolent, regardless of whether the latter is clever, or stupid
- Ho Hum
- Ho Hum
- Ho Hum
November 3, 2014 at 12:37 pm -
FWIW, the Beeb has just trotted out the whole lot again, apparently unexpurgated and with no qualification regarding possible claim validity doubts, at the foot of today’s item on the IPCC investigating whether or not two Surrey police officers passed info on JS to ther forces in a timely manner
That’s probably to be expected as, even though the police sent the info to the CPS who decided there was insufficient evidence to pursue the matter, the police will doubtless be looking after their own reputation, with an outcome of either the ‘cleared of blame’ or ‘lessons have been learned’ type
What isn’t great is the Beeb’s continued pushing of the rest of the story as if everything claimed should be accepted almost without question. At one time you might have expected better
- Ms Mildred
November 3, 2014 at 12:49 pm -
Referring back to Anna’s comments above; surely this means that anyone can accuse a school master/mistress or carer/nursery nurse/priest or even their own close relatives, after they have died, of anything, especially sexual fiddling. They are therefore guilty because the allegations cannot be tested in court! There are coroners courts, but they kick in after a trial, if there is one, to mull over again why a death occurred and deliver a coroner’s verdict. This means that parents of murdered children/ loved ones, sometimes wait a damagingly long time before all the upsetting details are once again regurgitated in coroners court. This is very damaging to some families. Perhaps a challenge to other families to campaign against the police and demand a rerun under another coroner. Yet a person who has died of old age cannot have any post mortem redress for fraudulent claims against the estate he left to worthy charities. What a weird world we live in! We know the victims/survivors must be believed. To not support the alleged victim is nearly a capital offence in today’s warped thinking, leading to being roasted on anti social media. A herd mentality has developed akin to brain washing. I suggest they all emigrate to North Korea if they want to disengage their brains and be forced to follow the herd. OK herd… get your hankies out and weep for the loss of true justice…guilty as accused!
- Cloudberry
November 3, 2014 at 2:53 pm -
A herd mentality has developed akin to brain washing.
Perhaps there has been literal brainwashing, helped by words used in the media and online to describe Savile. “Creepy”, “Jekyll and Hyde”, “powerful”, “evil”, “demon”, “dirty old man”, “hiding in plain sight”, etc. Publish another old man’s name along with key words “Savile” and “sexual offences”, wait a few months, then take him to court and throw these words around, what chance does he have?- Moor Larkin
November 3, 2014 at 3:02 pm -
It was the cops wot won it.
The current Establishment seem to have taken full advantage of the traditional British faith in Law & Order.
The new guys ‘n’ gals on the block have turned it into Lore & Obeying Orders.
- Moor Larkin
- Cloudberry
- James
November 3, 2014 at 4:03 pm -
I have to say I am full of admiration for everyone prepared to put their head above the parapet and speak out on this madness. The vicious and quite hysterical reaction challenging this particular status quo appears to provoke in people is actually quite sinister and intimidating. Congratulations for those who withstand it.
By way of example, the Guardian website provides a useful tool for you to see the responses people have made to any comments you posted on the articles that allow it. A couple of months ago I responded to a rather nasty piece by Roy Greenslade where he expressed outrage that Richard Littlejohn used his column to doubt the conviction of Rolf Harris and his continual mild cynicism about the extent of Savile ‘crimes’. My response was to note that the view that Savile is being unfairly victimised is a common and growing one and in any event Littlejohn was perfectly entitled to express an opinion about the safety of a high profile conviction. Responses to this included:
“And I have the right to say that I find the motivations of anybody who would defend a convicted sexual predator who molested children over six decades to be deeply suspicious.”
“I would take a long hard look at yourself. As a little kid it can be traumatising enough just being bullied by other little kids. But molested by a grown man, a seemingly well liked celebrity? I am suspicious of anyone who can play this down. At the very least you have a serious lack of empathy. The least Harris deserves is a couple of years in jail at the end of a charmed life
As for Saville, I assume you are aware there is footage of him groping kids / young people ON TV in footage that was actually broadcast. One man gets his kicks, many people have a lifetime of difficult relationships, panic attacks, drink problems and god knows what else. There is something wrong with you I just hope you don’t hurt anyone”
And finally:
“You may not be afraid to make these fatuous remarks publicly but you are afraid to stand by them with your actual name. Richard Littlejohn (who I’ve met and like) has certainly mislaid his moral compass on this issue, but at least he has the courage to put his name to his stupid opinions.”
My lack of real name on my profile is based mainly on laziness, especially as the registration process does not require the submission of personal details and so I am unmotivated to volunteer any. Based on the rather thinly veiled threats above, small wonder I have any desire to allow these people to take direct action against me for my dangerous and antisocial views.
- Moor Larkin
November 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm -
There is something very obvious about those who are grinding their axes the most on t’internet, and little girls are really not what they are bothered about, but hiding behind little girl’s skirts makes able to hide in plain sight.
The issue of homosexuality and paedophilia is a controversial one, not to say an uncomfortable one. Certainly in the UK, with it’s range of “Hate Laws” it is probably an issue generally left unexplored in the UK mainstream for fear any discussion might lead to legal or civil repercussions. However, on the less restricted international internet, any browser can find a wealth of “facts” to choose from and indeed a wealth of internet warriors only too happy to choose their “facts”. If you have read my Blog regularly you may be aware that there seems ample reason to believe that one of the reasons the mythology about Jimmy Savile and children began was because for a long time in the past, he was believed to have been a closet Gay… The minuted evidence given by Peter Garsden back in 2002 is an impartial record however that, on the face of it, certainly up until 2002, all his Abuse-Law clients were male… If all his clients were male, where were all the females who were being abused? It crossed my mind that maybe all the claims of this sort of organised historical abuse related to boys and their male teachers and the police were obviously symbiotic in the prosecution of these past misdeeds.
But what about the girls?
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/puppy-dogs-tales.html- Cloudberry
November 3, 2014 at 6:46 pm -
hide in plain sight
Wonder who coined this idea with respect to Savile. It has been bandied around so much and has so much potential. Was it explicitely said in the documentary? A Google search for “in plain sight” Savile from 1.10.2012 to 5.10.2012 turns up a few blog comments, a Guardian article of 4 October “Jimmy Savile was hiding in the light”, as well as a lonely gem from 5 October “Jimmy Savile? Lord Lucan? Now let me defame the undead and reveal all” (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/oct/05/jimmy-savile-lord-lucan-shergar), while widening the search up to 15.10.2012 brings in many more online comments plus several articles, including “Was Jimmy Savile really the devil in disguise?” (10 October, Yorkshire Evening Post), “The Downfall of a British Television Icon” (12 October, The New Yorker), “Jimmy Savile: The man who hid in plain sight” (15 October, Daily Mail) and “How Jimmy Savile managed to hide in plain sight” (15 October, ITV).- Cloudberry
November 3, 2014 at 7:01 pm -
Edit: the Yorkshire Evening Post article is quite nuanced, with “in plain sight” appearing in a lengthy and somewhat defensive sounding anonymous comment thumbed up several times.
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/what-s-on/columnists/jayne-dawson-was-jimmy-savile-really-the-devil-in-disguise-1-5008493- Moor Larkin
November 3, 2014 at 7:06 pm -
You don’t need to be Perry Mason to join the dots.
http://www.amazon.com/Hiding-Plain-Sight-Secret-Raymond/dp/142347371X
- Moor Larkin
- Ian B
November 3, 2014 at 8:53 pm -
It’s a fairly common meme, I think. It’s basically a way of explaining away a lack of actual evidence, by claiming that the evidence was there all along but “we didn’t see it for what it was”; an example is the HIGNFY clip where Savile jokes, “anyone I could lay my hands on” in response to Hislop asking what he did in his camper van.
- Moor Larkin
November 4, 2014 at 6:23 pm -
Not sure it’s been a meme for no evidence. In the last Century it was a meme for the idea that one couldn’t see the wood for the trees. It would be a sort of Sherlock Holmes trick where the vital clue was missed by everyone because it was in plain sight, yet hidden. The best example I recall was actually a father Brown story where a man is threatened with murder, the police surround his house, yet hours later when they go in, he’s not only been murdered but his body has disappeared!! The solution was the Postman. He’d gone in, murdered the man and carried him out in his sack, but all the policemen had sworn nobody had entered or left the bulding.
Using the internet as a filter, just as the word gay evolved so did this phrase and ironically it does seem to have been increasingly adopted by gay activists, proud of the ability of such as Ellen Degeneres to become enormously popular, yet only the “gay community” knew about them. Her closet is referred to as a glass one. The same article also refers to stars/celebrities being “allowed” to have “underage hustlers”. It’s from 1997.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tegCAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA24#v=onepage&q&f=true - Cloudberry
November 5, 2014 at 12:23 am -
It’s basically a way of explaining away a lack of actual evidence, by claiming that the evidence was there all along but “we didn’t see it for what it was”
That would be useful to anyone with something to gain by reconfiguring people as paedos. Which is why I was wondering if there was any particular originator or propagator of that idea with respect to Savile or if it was just repeated as people following the story picked the idea up and parroted it further.- Ho Hum
November 5, 2014 at 12:30 am -
I always thought it was a means of people trying to expiate themselves, when they thought that they needed some excuse to justify their own apparent lack of action in the sight of others. To such, it doesn’t matter whether what is alleged is true or not. They’re saving their own skins.
- Moor Larkin
November 5, 2014 at 5:58 pm -
At least one version of the idea was propagated by Craig Brown on 15th October 2012 in the Mail:
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/youre-indestructible-always-believe.html?q=hiding
“Most people’s vision of a paedophile would probably involve some combination of the following:
1) an elderly man with dyed hair;
2) grossly inappropriate clothes, like gold lamé shorts;
3) a lot of gurning
4) a lot of gurgling
5) a beefy arm clenched tightly around the waist of a child.
As paedophiles go, Savile was no shrinking violet. Not only did he exhibit all five of the above characteristics, but he exhibited them all at least once a week on national television. For everyone, such extreme exhibitionism served to confirm that he couldn’t possibly be a paedophile. We all thought: ‘He must be joking!’ “- Ho Hum
November 5, 2014 at 6:12 pm -
On that basis, it would explain why we so often see it postulated that if a horse is a creature that
– looks like a horse
– walks like a horse, and
– sounds like a horse
then, Princess Anne is a horseOr is the more credible alternative that some journalists are opportunistic swine, hiding in plain sight?
- Moor Larkin
November 6, 2014 at 11:55 am -
Funny you should mention the Princess Royal…
http://s8.photobucket.com/user/S-F1000/media/FMF/SAVILE1973-6DMR05-23J.jpg.html
- Moor Larkin
- Ho Hum
- Ho Hum
- Moor Larkin
- Cloudberry
- Cloudberry
- Moor Larkin
{ 63 comments… read them below or add one }