Rotherham bothers 'em? – The Anna Raccoon Archives

by Anna Raccoon on August 27, 2014

Across the land, fingers are flying over moderation panels on a thousand websites – deleting any mention of Rotherham and Pakistanis in the same comment. There is more cant and hypocrisy around today than I have seen for many a year.

If you want to read the source document for this latest outrage it is HERE. For some reason, the main stream media would rather you read their ‘take’ on the situation than look at the actual document.

In short, 1,400 girls under the age of 18 – ‘children’ in legal parlance – were found to be having sex with men over the age of 18. Some of the girls were as young as 11 which means the legal definition changes from ‘sexual abuse’ to rape’. Some of the girls were ‘beyond the care and control’ of their parents and hence under the care of the local council. Some of the girls were subjected to grievous bodily harm – one had petrol poured over her; utterly horrendous. Most of the men were of Pakistani origin. None of the girls was dragged out of the bushes – all had chosen, unwisely, illegally, naively, to become involved with these men.

It depends which of the previous statements in the preceding paragraph irks you most as to how high your knee is jerking today.

IF it is the fact that ‘children’ were engaging in sex with grown men – then don’t muddy the waters by leaving me endless comments concerning what the Qur’an says and how Mohammed was married to a nine year old – it is irrelevant.

You are dismissing the harm done to every other ‘child’ engaging in sex with a grown man. ‘Plied with alcohol by a Pakistani’ and ‘bought an exotic cocktail by that grinning young man’ in the holiday snaps from Ibiza have the same effect. Get your own child back from that holiday in their friend’s house in Rock, lock them up this instant – because the chances are that they are happily being abused by ‘David’, the older son of that nice couple with the burgeoning IT business in the converted barn down the road.

Sex under the age of 18 with a person over the age of 18 doesn’t magically become damaging depending on their occupation – DJ? – or the colour of their skin. In order to not be hypocritical – you must make sure your child is home every day before darkness falls – no more parties at friend’s houses, no more trips to the south of France, no more discos. During the day time hours, you must escort them everywhere.

IF it is the fact that those girls were in the care of the local council – then look to yourself. They were in the care of the local council because their parents couldn’t control them – and parents have a lot more ability to lock the door and keep their children under control than the council do. I see no logical reason why being paid by the government to ‘care’ for these children should be treated any differently to ‘choosing’ to care for children that you have brought into the world. You have failed to prevent them from engaging in sexual relations before the age of 18 – if you want to see ‘heads roll’ for what has occurred in Rotherham – then let us see parental heads roll too. Same penalties.

IF you are one of the eager beaver legal beagles that is pushing for ‘mandatory reporting’ – then push for mandatory reporting of everyone that is aware of an under 18 year old engaging in illegal sexual relations – parents, journalists, club owners, everyone. Child abuse doesn’t magically become a heinous crime according to who knew about it, and how much money the agency employing them has available for a tort. I don’t accept ‘selective responsibility’.

IF you are one of the people that is – quite understandably – upset at the thought of an 11 year old having petrol poured over her, then ask yourself ‘who knew about this’? Did she tell anyone? Was it reported to the Police? I’ll be right behind you, nay in front of you, demanding that heads roll, if you can show me that an 11 year old told the police or a social worker that she had had petrol poured over herself the night before – and they ‘dismissed’ this. The police weren’t told until years later – at the time, both the parents and the child elected not to tell police. Of course they were frightened of retribution – but that is a separate issue – neither the Police nor Social Workers are mind readers.

I am well aware that the major issue here is that the perpetrators were Pakistani. I have heard all the arguments that it is a ‘cultural matter’, that the girls were treated as ‘white meat’ – and the equally abhorrent and hypocritical argument that the ‘colour of their skin doesn’t matter to me – this was child abuse’. You should be campaigning for full blooded apartheid – reprehensible South African version – blood tests to decide genetic origin before marriage. Rotherham isn’t ‘worse’ because of the colour of the penis.

It is child abuse, applied to every girl and boy under the age of 18 who engages in sexual relations with a person over the age of 18 of any colour, and of any occupation, in any premises.

Come back here and tell me that you have found a way to ensure that every child under 18 is escorted, protected, and prevented from getting into any situation that might be construed as holding sexual possibilities – and that you are prepared to accept that you might end up being jailed for allowing your 15 year old to go on that summer holiday she is badgering you about – or that the juicy story you have just been told about a celebrity means that you too are complicit in failing to report ‘child abuse’ and that means jail, no matter how ‘busy’ you have been on other stories.

Don’t be selective – all children are valuable.

I really have had enough of ‘child abuse’ being used as a political football, the foundation of a career in media, an excuse to let your inner racist out, or a new ‘head’ for damages by expansionary legal firms.

It’s not ‘heinous’ when carried out by Pakistani perpetrators on girls in the care of the council and ‘cute’ when you pick up your Daily Mail and read of the great grand-mother of 35 and 4 generations of the family now that 13 year old Sharon has given birth.

5,991 girls under the age of 16 became pregnant in 2011 – that is just the figure for those who didn’t take the morning after pill, and didn’t use contraception…

That makes an awful lot of you reading this who should be looking at their own complicity in allowing ‘child abuse’ before calling for heads to roll over Rotherham. The decent ‘background’ attached to that penis your son or daughter was playing with last night doesn’t make it any ‘different’ you know.

Thank you. Over and Out. Rant over.

Perhaps Ms Raccoon should go back to bed for an hour or so….

{ 243 comments… read them below or add one }

Duncan Disorderly August 27, 2014 at 10:09 am

It is rare to find any source documents linked on a news website, which can usually be fixed with a Google search. To be fair, I did find the report linked on the BBC website, albeit hidden in a ‘response to report’ webpage.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 10:14 am

And at the same moment as they blame the police and they blame the Social Services, they will not mention the parents who stood aside and said, “Not my problem – the State will provide”, and then they will complain that the State is running their lives these days and poking into their private business, and it’s like the bloody Stasi…. and yadda yadda yadda. Where doe the buck stop? Not on my watch buddy. Not my problem. And meanwhile another carer/teacher who did care, will be locked up for something that they probably never did do, forty years ago.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 10:39 am

Shouldn’t we expect more of professionals, accredited and trained, than of benefit seeking chav breeders, though?

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 10:46 am

@JuliaM
Should we expect people to look after other people’s brats? My Irish grandparents were the very essence of chav breeders, far too many kids and no money. More than one of those children spent time in “orphanages”, and later returned homes as financial fortunes favoured the family. It struck me that nowadays those same “kids” would be under all manner of care orders; back then I think they relied on “Sisters of Mercy” or somesuch. With regards to the “professional mummies & daddies”, I’ve been noticing that my local newsrag is full of adverts for “childcare professionals” every single week and I do not live in any run-down inner city area especially.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 11:23 am

We should expect upholders of the law to, well, uphold the law.

It’s not the children’s fault they were born to useless parents. It shouldn’t be their fault that the upholders of the law were all far too worried about not looking politically correct to do anything about it, either.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 11:44 am

Uphold the law? Give me a break. The law is a machine. It grinds people up and cares not a fig who or what they are. And everyone now and again the machine gets re-programmed and grinds them up in a different direction. The result is the same. Ground-up people.

A child’s parents are it’s parents and if they are “useless” so what? We have celeb’s these days getting all tearful about their “ancestors” and they have no real idea whether that person was a complete pig in real life, but blood feels thicker than water and always will. But teenagers come to resent their parents, they always have. We used to call it the Generation Gap.

Ted Treen August 27, 2014 at 4:01 pm

Agreed, Moor.
Many today make, or flock to, a call for “Justice”. Unfortunately, too many of them still cling to the naïve belief that “The Law” and “Justice” have anything in common.

stephen lewis August 27, 2014 at 7:09 pm

Sorry .. after seeing much of what has been written here and in other blogs and agreeing. I find myself disagreeing quite strongly here. I have 4 children, married to the same woman I started relations with when shew was 15 and I was 17 ( I’m 50 this year) and am not ashamed to say she is the only woman I have been with. I state this because I am clearly not a “chav” (whatever that means – and I know the “official” definition), I ran my own recruitment company turning over £1m in its’ peak year, currently run my own business providing an adequate living. I have only been in trouble with the law once .. falsely accused of racial harassment .. and won my case despite the police and CPS being in cahoots.
What’s my point? I genuinely believe my eldest daughter had the closest of shaves with Pakistani boys/men. I believe she was groomed by someone slightly younger than her and she was encouraged to meet his mates in Luton town centre. They even came to my door and tried to persuade me to get her to co-operate.
On being “dissed” by my eldest, the youngest member damaged my car – once when he was seen and possibly 2 other times (suspected), he vandalised our fence down by the back bridle path with obscene images and messages reference my wife that I had to clean on several occasions.
My children are well brought up and stable individuals and have friends at many age levels in our society .. and yet we were ver close to being a victim of this Pakistani white girl grooming process. I pray that she was only on the fringe and that she isn’t hiding something away .. I have attempted quiet discussion.

As for the idea that girls are in the care of the community and this we must (even partially) blame the parents for the activities of Pakistani men .. I am genuinely outraged. We have created legislation (the same legislation as the sexual laws) and this has allowed the unscrupulous to take advantage and now we do not seem to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I have seen 1st hand the racial laws being used against individuals that have done nothing wrong … and I have learned from sites such as yours and Moors and SS how the laws have been used to rape human beings of their dignity (even after death).

These crimes have been genuinely occurred and they were reported but fear of racial disharmony has meant that people have not stood up to the mark … in the same way people will not step to the mark and suggest that many of these celebrity case are in fact lies … for fear of being branded a paedo or misogynist.

Fat Steve August 27, 2014 at 9:09 pm: @Stephen Lewis –you make a good point based on personal experience and in a manner which indicates personal integrity to me . I have never thought that those who are protected by race relations laws might actually set out to DELIBERATELY carry out wrongdoing aware that race relations laws gives them a first (actually in some senses an extremely strong) line of defence —certainly special treatment but perhaps in some cases almost something of an immunity . I have known the race card played when someone doesn’t get their way in a dispute just as other ‘cards’ are played in disputes —I have had it played in civil disputes where race just can’t be an issue but on reflection I suspect you are right and that whilst ‘race’ per se might not be at the heart of the matter, race relation laws might well be—that old metaphysical law of unexpected consequences that in setting out with good intent to protect a vulnerable group a major consequence is that the oppressed become the oppressors as a consequence. It takes a fair degree of cultural development not to exploit and few would like to argue many communities in England are developed in that sense . Its a particularly interesting thesis to consider within the context of the politics of Rotherham and one that for the moment I buy into strongly

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wiggia August 27, 2014 at 12:07 pm

Exactly Julia, if the state intervenes (and whether it should or not is a seperate issue) it must do so on the basis that it can protect, all depts have totally failed, councils, social services departments and the Police all in the name of community cohesion ?, this opinion over at Cats is as good as any.
http://www.countingcats.com/?p=17185
plus it highlights the fact that if you read the report it condemns those who “knew” what was going on.
And the shutters are still being put up in the MSM on reporting these cases, the Newcastle one where over 100 people of a certain faith have been arrested the most recent is still difficult to find any details of.

wiggia August 27, 2014 at 12:07 pm

Sorry “separate”

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 12:22 pm

Having seen the NHS Reports and their way of presenting information to suit the current “political” agenda, I see no reason to believe that this one is any different. What has seemed more and more clear to me is that the State seems an even worse nanny than even an abusive parent. I have wondered sometimes if the entire paedo-panic over these last two years has simply been designed to obscure the fact that the worst child abuse is state-sponsored since the 1970’s. Reading blogs of those who were embedded in it seems to suggest that they are the victims who will not be listened to, albeit teachers and carers will be banged up as politically expedient, to show that nanny loves us.

To bring it back to Madame’s sterling work here, the difference between the Duncroft cohorts of the 60’s and the 70’s is quite staggering. Something huge shifted and I guess it was the whole nature of British society. Nobody can fix that. It is Us.

eric hardcastle August 27, 2014 at 3:42 pm

Yeh well Jim tried to Fix It and look what happened to him!

Penny August 27, 2014 at 7:38 pm

Yes the 70’s were when things changed. The pill seemed to make some blokes think all women were fair game. I was twelve in 1976 and was constantly harrased and on a couple of occasions was sexually assaulted. once by a 21 yr old and once by a 44 yr old. And that was just when I was twelve. Wasn’t everyone?

JuliaM August 28, 2014 at 8:25 am

I was 11 in 1976. And no, I wasn’t harassed. Not, to the best of my knowledge, was anyone in my close circle of female friends.
So not everyone.

Anna Raccoon August 28, 2014 at 8:31 am

Oooh, you’re just a baby…..!

Jacqui Thornton August 28, 2014 at 2:25 pm: I had my teenage years in the seventies and am still in close contact with a number of friends from back then. In answer to your question Penny, no everyone wasn’t. As teenage girls and ‘young women’, we felt genuinely liberated. We graduated from ‘Cathy & Claire’ straight to Cosmo and hung on the teachings of Irma Kurtz and Anna Raeburn. Convinced we were the first to have access to such knowledge (and knowledge is power), we felt confident and superior to all who had gone before on all matters of sex. We were told sex was a Joy, and there seemed nothing to stop us feeling Joyous. We courted experience and had a thirst for Joy… lol However, far from the excesses of the young girls on ‘Sun Sea And Suspicious Parents’, we felt in control. We considered our bodies our own and they were temples… but we might ask you in if we felt like it. If mistakes were made, (and they were), we took responsibility and didn’t look for scapegoats. Our childhoods had been spent playing out where we had inherited that sixth sense to avoid the weirdo living at number sixty-two and when we grew up we laughed with the girls in the works tea room AT the office perv with his wandering hands. There were the genuine Nutters without a doubt that a few girls suffered the most horrific things that cannot be excused, but that was by no means the norm. Looking back, I can see I am probably one of the last generations to have had the benefit of so much opportunity and choice with regard to our sexual attitudes. Just as I reached my twenties, AIDS hit and fear, panic plus general hysteria removed the freedom of choice and it was never the same again.

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Joe Public August 27, 2014 at 10:29 am

Even as late as yesterday afternoon, after the report was published, the BBC continued to use the euphemisms CSE (child sexual exploitation) and Asian, when paedophilia and Pakistani were the correct descriptions.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 10:40 am

Some branches of the MSM are playing it straight and calling a spade a spade. Not many, though.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 10:51 am: Radio Funf this morning was speaking of “criminals”, probably “evil” ones… regardless of colour. The need for paed.

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The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 10:53 am

“when paedophilia and Pakistani were the correct descriptions.”

Paedophilia? How old were these ‘children’ then? “as young as eleven” (which is the phrase I have heard several times in the MSM) would suggest the correct term would be “Hebophilia ” or more likely “EPhebophilia”(my shouty). Most of the radio coverage I heard spoke of the men as having been of Asian or Pakistani “heritage” …whatever that is

The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 11:03 am: I wonder if I can describe myself as being of “British Heritage” ? Makes me sound like a Tax Payer Funded Fake Charity to exploit, sorry I mean of course ‘protect’, sites of historic value though.

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IlovetheBBC August 27, 2014 at 10:36 am

I found and downloaded the report easily. I have to ask you Anna, have you actually read it?
I IS shocking. If you are not shocked by accounts of police who actually arrested fathers who went to try and rescue their daughters then I don’t know what to say to you. Gangs of men who sat outside girls’ houses, smashed windows, made threats – and nothing was done. This WAS reported at the time. The council, the police, social services – they ALL knew this was happening, and for years. Decades.
They left those girls to gang rapes and torture because they were sometimes afraid of being called racist, because they were generally incompetent, and because they sometimes thought they were sluts who deserved it.
As far as I’m concerned, this is the real scandal, not compo-hunting claims against old men who took their pleasures when they were thrust in their faces in an age when it was tolerated, if not encouraged.
These girls were targeted, groomed, carted and passed around like meat, beaten and drugged. It’s a completely different set of circumstances to other historical sex abuse cases, and it shows our local authorities up as the useless organisations that they too often are.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 10:40 am

@ this is the real scandal @
Where was the BBC Investigative Journalist Department while all the above was going on?
Oh Meirion and Liz … wherefore wert thou wheneth we needed you?

Mr Wray September 1, 2014 at 5:41 pm: Reporting to the Police the odious Nick Griffin for pointing out, in private, that men of Pakistani origin were abusing ‘white’ girls. That’s where.

Of course Griffin cares little for the victims and is more of a fascist rabble rowser than anything else but you would have thought the BBC men filming him would have questioned his claims. Or maybe they already knew what was happening and were keeping quite along with the rest of the State apparatus.

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GildasTheMonk August 27, 2014 at 2:37 pm

I agree

IlovetheBBC August 27, 2014 at 10:38 am

And please, read the report before you blame the parents. No doubt some are culpable but blanket condemnation is completely unfair, as you’ll see from some of the specific cases.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 10:41 am

@ read the report before you blame the parents @
so how did the “children” end up in care in the first place? Lottery?

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 11:24 am

Moor, it IS possible for good, decent parents to lose their grip on a child too, you know…

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 11:31 am: So, if the child is being “taken away” without cause, as per Satanic Abuse, that is suggesting that the last thing we need is more children being “taken away”. But we’re not talking about children are we? If a teenager is getting beyond the ability of the parents to “control” then I’m not sure getting even more paranoid about girls having sex before they are 18 is exactly going to help the situation. If we are going that route then the parents must be given gaolers rights over their teenagers again, as Victoria Gillick once opined. It is simply unrealistic to expect Nanny State to be able to look after all these young folks – short of locking them all up as per the very same sorts of places that are now being pursued through the courts by tort lawyers, forty years later.

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JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 10:42 am

“Rotherham isn’t ‘worse’ because of the colour of the penis.”

Indeed. It’s worse because of the pernicious nature of the ideology that drove it, and that of the ideology that aided and abetted it.

Islam in the first instance, political correctness in the second.

Ian B August 27, 2014 at 12:28 pm

Is there any evidence that the “ideology” of Islam drove anything in this situation? It looks more like the biology of the human sex drive to me.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 2:03 pm

How many victims were of the same ethnic origin? There’s your answer.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 2:22 pm

The Muslim girls are probably not allowed out in that way, or have stricter upbringings making them not get involved anyway. Plus, their fathers probably make sure the police don’t get to know about it when their father’s retrieve them. I suspect there is your answer to that particular conundrum. The young women who do escape the authority of their parents are probably the top percentile in brains and having freed themselves are hardly likely to allow themselves to then be dominated by someone else in the mind-deadening locale. I imagine they have to flee their community anyway, just as girls from Liverpool would come to London in the 1960’s to get away from their alehouse fadders.

Dr Cromarty August 27, 2014 at 3:07 pm: The Big Clue is right there on the flag of Pakistan.

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suffolkgirl August 27, 2014 at 5:13 pm

No not really. If you look at the history of organized vice and gang led sex abuse it has little to do with religion bit a lot to do with new immigrants who came from peasant cultures and had no respect for ‘our’ women. There have been plenty of Maltese,Cypriot, Slavic,and Chinese participants. When I worked as a clerk in a south London legal office the main culprits were young afro carribean men.
There is also a question never faced ,which is that these different men
were so appealing to their victims because their own menfolk were often so vile. Anything seemed a better option.

Robert the Biker August 27, 2014 at 2:06 pm

Well, yes, yes there is… it’s called the koran.
Those who are not muslim are second class at best…. their women are whores by definition….they are kuffer (filthy, unclean) and you may keep them as captives and use them as you wish… words of mo, the rapist, caravan raider, paedophile, murderer… and accoeding to the subhuman shit of islam, the perfect man, for all times and places.

Ted Treen August 27, 2014 at 4:04 pm: Err, not much I can add to that, except to say “Well said, Robert”.

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backofanenvelope August 27, 2014 at 10:46 am

It seems as though there is plenty of blame to go round in Rotherham. There is one thing the government can do – right now. The perpetrators are almost always Moslem Pakistanis – even the BBC says so. So – when in a hole, stop digging. Stop importing Pakistanis. No visas, no rights of residence, no passports. This might seem a bit harsh, but these men were not lonely little orphans, they had families, they probably attended a mosque on Fridays. They swam in a sea of Moslems, as Mao (another man fond of little girls) might have said.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 10:54 am

Is it coz they’re Moslem? Or just that they can’t get a shag?

Robert the Biker August 27, 2014 at 12:22 pm: Well, since the ‘slims keep the women bottled up in stupid bags with ‘honour killings’ if they go with the ‘wrong’ boy or dare to want to be like other girls their age, then no, Abdul can’t get a shag.
On the other hand, the little shit can count the white girls as ‘kuffr’ and use them as he will; if he’s a bit more pig ignorant -sorry – devout, then he can follow the precepts of mo the murderous thug and consider them ‘captives of his right hand’, spoils of war, to do with as he wishes.

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Joe Public August 27, 2014 at 10:53 am

I wonder if McPherson would also agree that it’s ‘Institutionalised Racism’ to ignore a common ethnicity?

Sigillum August 27, 2014 at 11:01 am

I agree with Julia on this one. Whilst all child sex abuse, this is a pernicious evil. It is in part driven by the attitude of a sector of the Pakistani Muslim community which regards any non Islamic girl as a whore in any event. Couple this with the fear on the part of the People’s Republic of Rotherham/South Yorkshire to touch any subject which might tarnish the glory of multiculturalism and a police force run by morons who treated the girls as the problem where also in thrall to the PC agenda and you get the perfect storm. The reports of fathers who tried to rescue their daughters from houses where they were being abused and ended up getting arrested are particularly concerning.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 11:13 am

It’s fairly obvious that if the girls had been “proper” children then the police would have had no problem in heroically rescuing them. One question that strikes me is whether the fathers did not so much mind their daughters being shagged, so much as that they minded that they were being shagged by a Paki. It’d be interesting to spot all the local newspaper reportage of fathers being arrested in this way? If it happened as presented.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 11:25 am

“It’s fairly obvious that …”

No. It actually isn’t.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 11:55 am: If the police knew an 11 year-old was “in de house” and arrested the father who tried to get her out, I’m a Dutch Uncle. It’ll be the same as happened in Rochdale/Oxford: sexually mature teenagers expressing their lifestyle choices.

Interestingly though, in the Oxford case there was an “11 year-old” headlining the show.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/operation-bull.html
GIRLS AS YOUNG AS 11 ‘BURNED BY GANG SELLING THEM FOR SEX’

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eric hardcastle August 27, 2014 at 3:48 pm

But did these daughters want to be “rescued”? . Or were they actually quite liking the life they were leading then?

stephen lewis August 27, 2014 at 7:19 pm

I’m sorry Moor … on this occasion your arguments fail to inspire me. These girls may well have been “damaged” but they were a lot more damaged after these events and it would appear that the Police and the council did little to assist .. by their own admission .. for fear of being deemed racist.

You’ll see the same in racial aggravation cases.. the police aren’t interested in how the dispute came to happen .. only that the P word was used or the B word was used.

These men have used that political correctness as a weapon … and they’ve got away with it .. for a very long time.

Henry Wood August 27, 2014 at 7:29 pm: Regarding the police doing little for fear of being deemed racist:
Ten years ago they were claiming they *had* investigated – ‘A spokeswoman from the West Yorkshire police says, “In the case of alleged sexual exploitation of young women in Keighley, social services and the police have been conducting extensive enquiries for the last two years. A number of girls have been interviewed, aged mainly between 13 and 16. We have found no evidence of systematic exploitation. Some of the girls admitted having relationships with older men but they described them as their boyfriends and did not feel they were being exploited.” ‘
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/aug/09/channel4.otherparties
They “investigated” and found no evidence. That officer for one should be tracked down and brought to book.

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stephen lewis August 29, 2014 at 6:01 pm

@eric

I suspect they had nothing left in their life to want anything else. Having come from Rotherham and seen the state of Luton, the lower echelons often have nothing else left living for. They are merely existing….. no-one seems to care because we’re too busy trying to maintain our own meagre existence. We often seem keener to help people in the 3rd world rather than genuinely improve our society locally. We’re programmed to think that these lower echelons had just the same opportunities etc etc .. and they get their job seekers allowance .. what more do they want?

The truth is that opportunities don’t come to everyone… I found early on that I seemed a bit luckier than some … and still seem to be. Not as lucky as others though I hasten to add LOL.

I have dealt with customers with millions in the bank and customers with just a few quid to their name, intelligence seems to have very little to do with either. We can also have the tide turn against us at a moments notice .. my £1m recruitment business became £250k within 1 year and we genuinely did nothing different, there simply wasn’t the jobs in the electronics industry in the UK.

They certainly wouldn’t like their life … there simply wasn’t much else on offer.

Anna Raccoon August 29, 2014 at 6:16 pm

“We often seem keener to help people in the 3rd world rather than genuinely improve our society locally.”

I think it is worse than that – we are programmed to see those in 3rd word countries as being genuinely deserving and our ‘lower echelons’ as being responsible for their own plight.

Mr Wray September 1, 2014 at 5:50 pm: Ah, the soft racism of low expectations.

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macheath August 27, 2014 at 11:54 am

There is, perhaps, a danger that the multiple knee-jerks provoked by this case will obscure the question of collaboration – a truly chilling factor in sexual relationships whether the perpetrators are Pakistani taxi-drivers, South London street gangs or Premiership footballers (or, for that matter, students at a top public school or university). Individuals may exert pressures on a partner but the potential for exploitation is surely magnified many times over by group involvement.

I know nothing of the law in this area – how legally significant is it that the perpetrator has conspired with others?

Dioclese August 27, 2014 at 12:08 pm

Good article as ever, Anna. However I do have to take issue with you on the Quran comment because if the great prophet had a 9 year old wife then you have to consider that a muslim would consider this to be acceptable in terms of his religion. It doesn’t of course make it acceptable or legal in the UK but I can see where the argument comes from. I hasten to add I don’t accept it and that people living in the UK must abide by it’s laws and moral standards – even if these standards are being eroded day by day. There is also the question of consent even if the child is legally unable to give it…

There are questions to be asked over this scandal. Interesting also that this is Cyril Smith land and he, allegedly, was a paedophile too. “Something is rotten in the State of Denmark” I fear.

The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 1:16 pm

Best theological guess is that the Blessed Virgin Mary was no more than 13 when she received the Lord’s seed in her womb. So Xians should perhaps bear that thought in mind when knocking Mohammed(ans) liking girls just old enough to bleed.

Dr Cromarty August 27, 2014 at 3:20 pm

As far as I’m aware no Christians are claiming it’s ok to have sex with children. While the behaviour of a tiny proportion of clergy has been disgusting and criminal it has (belatedly) received criminal and canonical sanction. There is nowhere in orthodox Christian teaching that advocates or excuses the rape of children – indeed it is roundly condemned. What is your purpose in making false equivalence between the teachings and behaviour of Christ and Mahomet?

Ian B August 27, 2014 at 3:38 pm

The thing that always gets me is why when we’re having a go at the Muzzies, everyone starts using these antiquated versions like “moslems” and “mohammedans” and “Mahomet” and so on. Should we just settle on “blackamoors” and be done with it?

The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 4:03 pm

Personally I was going to go with ‘Saracens’ cos it’s got a romantic ‘buggering olive skinned Sons Of The Desert in the Wadi at dust’ feel to it….

The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 4:11 pm: “dusk” !

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suffolkgirl August 27, 2014 at 5:28 pm

Yep. I just replied to Julia along those lines. There is no doubt to me that foreign men have been well represented in the sex and gang stakes, but the target of panic changes over the years.

eric hardcastle August 27, 2014 at 3:53 pm

There is no mention of an age of consent in the Bible and is Mary became a urrogate it must have been normal- there was no outcry was there?
Let’s not forget 100 years ago the age of consent in the UK was 13 and plenety of fundamentalist Christians have very odd practices including the Mormons.

Dioclese August 29, 2014 at 12:16 am

Good point. Historically in England and Wales the age of consent for heterosexual intercourse for girls was 12, there was no lower age limit for heterosexual intercourse for boys, buggery (but not other forms of gay sex) was illegal between men and boys at any age, and there were no explicit laws about lesbian sex. The Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 raised the age of consent for girls to 16.

Girls could marry at 12 and boys at 14 with parental consent until the Age of Marriage Act 1929 raised it to 16 with parental consent and 21 without consent in all of the UK except Northern Ireland. This was changed to 18 when the age of majority was lowered from 21 to 18.

Ho Hum August 29, 2014 at 2:21 am: Small addendum. I don’t think that Scotland has ever had a requirement for parental consent. If you are of age, you are deemed to be able to be responsible for your own actions

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The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 4:09 pm

“As far as I’m aware no Christians are claiming it’s ok to have sex with children”

Trust me, there are, usually of the more American flavour…the Neo-millerite groups like Koresh just as one example. Many hold that a girl becomes a woman at 13 (that whole Bat Mitzvah thang) and can marry or , as is normal in such groups, be wed to some Elderly Prophet Of God…preferably as a ‘Sister Wife’.

“What is your purpose in making false equivalence between the teachings and behaviour of Christ and Mahomet?” I mentioned neither prophet, I was simply pointing out God’s own behaviour wouldn’t fly in a court of modern law. I can just see the DM Headline NOW “ELDERLY DEITY ARTIFICIALLY INSEMINATES C H I L D. Parents FURY at paedo Fix It God”

The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 4:22 pm

“I mentioned neither prophet, “, sorry on 2nd reading I did actually mention one of them.

Dr Cromarty August 27, 2014 at 5:23 pm

I specifically mentioned orthodox Christian teaching. If you are citing fringe sects as though they are mainstream representative of Christian doctrine your motives are clear. The lives of Christ and Mahomet are germane. One was blameless (the most he could have been charge with was a public order offence after cleansing the Temple), Mahomet was a polygamous, vindictive, genocidal, child-marrying warlord. Since each is seen as the model of perfect behaviour, when Christians misbehave they are going against the teachings if their Master. Muslim behaviour becomes more explainable when seen in the light of the life of their ‘prophet’.

Indulging Muslim behaviour seems folly.

The Blocked Dwarf August 27, 2014 at 7:32 pm

“I specifically mentioned orthodox Christian teaching” indeed you did but only after you had generalized that ‘No Christians were claiming etc’, I just wanted to point out that a rather large and increasingly vocal, media savvy (and often increasingly well armed) chunk of Xianity thinks differently.

Christ of blameless behaviour -except for the ABH at the temple? You must read a different version of the bible to me then …oh and just a thought, King David was a serial adulterer, murderer, possibly gay and a bad father yet he spoke with God. Infact being a ‘bit of a shit’ almost seems to have been a prerequisite for becoming a prophet of God so Mohamed’s teachings should not be viewed in the light of his personal behaviour less we must, say, judge the 10 Commandments by Moses’ or the Commandments of Noah by Noah’s.

Dr Cromarty August 27, 2014 at 9:20 pm

Millerites and branch Davidians are not orthodox Christians. You’re talking bullshit and you have an agenda.

The Blocked Dwarf August 28, 2014 at 1:39 am

I suspect most of what you (and btw it’s fairly obvious that the ‘Dr’ in your nick wasn’t in theology) would describe as ‘orthodox’ Xians subscribe to the doctrine of the Virgin Birth, therefore they accept the fact that God impregnated (for want of a better word) an underage -by modern standards- girl. Even if one chooses to believe, unreasonably, that Mary was more likely to have been 16+, I doubt any serious theologian would contend that she was 18+ (ie no longer a ‘child’ by the lights of the MSM).

Bullshit? That was beneath you.

Nope no agenda whatsoever, beyond a dislike of anyone maligning another’s faith especially when his (and mine) own is not without it’s warts.

Paul August 28, 2014 at 5:09 am

That’s ridiculous. That’s saying that because some Christians (in the current context very easily linked Us – the West) have done some bad things, then we aren’t able to decry the bad (indeed wicked) deeds of others – in this case the enemy of the West, on all counts.

Two wrongs may not make a right, but two wrongs must co-exist together, seems to be your reasoning.

Next, you might well be saying that because Britain once fiddled with the business of slavery, then we mustn’t condemn others who may wish to enslave – even if they to enslave ourselves.

Are you a liberal, or a Marxist, or something like that?

Paul August 28, 2014 at 5:10 am: *wish to* enslave ourselves.
The Blocked Dwarf August 28, 2014 at 2:15 pm: “Are you a liberal, or a Marxist, or something like that?”

No. You can put me in the drawer labeled “Right wing European Libertarian Arian (and that *is* spelt right btw) , ” ….or ‘confused’ maybe.

Jonathan August 27, 2014 at 12:18 pm

No Anna you should NOT go back to bed – you are the only sensible commentator who actually bothers to read and examine reports (and I include myself amongst the lazies). A first rate piece making seriously intelligent points.

Opus August 27, 2014 at 12:21 pm

I assumed that ‘Rotherham’ is acceptable Racism.

Last week in my local rag a Muslim man was convicted of Rape – the police had found six victims. I assumed (there being six victims and over a period of ten years ) that this was not a case of the parties being unknown to each other. My own observation (at close hand) and from report is that men from the middle-east are not backward in coming forward and act on what they see as sexual signalling. In short, I regard the allegations as false and the conviction and imprisonment as wrong. Do I get brownie points for anti-racism or am I to be condemned as a supporter of Rape Culture?

Were I a parent I would at least warn my children (especially the males) as to what to beware of in their dealings with the opposite sex and why. This never happened when I was young when even the most conservative and stuffy of parents had in practise a laissez-faire attitude (turning a blind eye to what they must have known was likely to be going on) and sex was a matter for the parties concerned – not the parents, the state or anyone else – one did not have to learn the 1959 Sexual Offences Act as one might study The Highway Code and no one based their courting behaviour on its strictures – especially and including the Homosexuals. This probably accounts for the sometimes delusional though jealous remarks of more than one of my married bosses when I was still below the age of reason whereby it was assumed that I was getting copious sex all the time. I was too embarrassed to confess that I did not even have a girlfriend. I merely report how it then was.

GildasTheMonk August 27, 2014 at 12:27 pm

I find it quite ironic that South Yorkshire police – not a force renowned for its culture of intellectual exploration of the arts, philosophy and so forth – find the resources to send a fleet of cars to raid Sir Cliff’s home on the say so of someone’s word about what allegedly happened at a public event 25 years ago, but seem to have taken no action in the face of a network of manipulative and violent rapists. Such are the priorities of public services in modern Britain….

oi you August 27, 2014 at 3:12 pm

Got it in one.

Don Cox August 27, 2014 at 4:10 pm: Not only cars but helicopters too.

How much per hour does a helicopter cost? And what made anyone think they would be needed in this case ?

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eric hardcastle August 27, 2014 at 3:57 pm

and a Christian event at that !

Dave August 27, 2014 at 11:40 pm: Quote of the Day!

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Ian B August 27, 2014 at 12:39 pm

There’s an interesting thing here for me, having spent some time *cough* researching sex panics. There is a recurrent narrative of the “foreign men taking our women”. Even if we exclude the Rape Of The Sabine Women, which I’m only including to be honest in the hope it’ll make me look scholarly.

So much for that then.

100 years ago, it was the Chinese in the frame, particularly in the USA. They were seducing and kidnapping girls into a life of vice. It drove the prohibition of opium dens both there and here, and suffragettes liked to publicly raid chinese establishments and save whoever they found in there, however desirable of salvation they might have been. Or of course 50 years ago, it was West Indian men who aroused the same suspicions and ire.

Black Bastards Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without.

Ever since this first blew up, I’ve been unable to avoid thinking we’re seeing a similar narrative recurring.

The other thing that keeps bothering me is that it seems to me that the people most enthusiastically denouncing the muzziepaedoconspiracy are the same type of people who, seeing another tabloid story about a girl getting pregnant at 12, run around like headless chickens screaming about chavs getting pregnant to get council flats and having no morals and so on.

I really don’t think this has much to do with Islam, however appealing that narrative may be.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 1:39 pm

Rudyard Kipling’s yarn about the men who would be Kings has them conquering Kafiristan and being treated like Gods, but then one of them decides to demand the Kafiristani’s give him one of their women as a wife. The strangest thing is that the tribes Kipling imagines, he describes as more English than the English… and it involves Freemasonry…

“”But getting a wife was not as easy as Dan thought. He put it before the Council, and there was no answer till Billy Fish said that he’d better ask the girls. Dravot damned them all round. “‘What’s wrong with me?’ he shouts, standing by the idol Imbra. ‘Am I a dog, or am I not enough of a man for your wenches? Haven’t I put the shadow of my hand over this country? Who stopped the last Afghan raid?’ It was me really, but Dravot was too angry to remember. ‘Who bought your guns? Who repaired the bridges? Who’s the Grand Master of the sign cut in the stone?’ says he, and he thumped his hand on the block that he used to sit on in Lodge, and at Council, which opened like Lodge always. Billy Fish said nothing, and no more did the others. ‘Keep your hair on, Dan,’ said I, ‘and ask the girls. That’s how it’s done at Home, and these people are quite English.’”
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2334/2334-h/2334-h.htm#link2H_4_0074

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 2:10 pm: “I really don’t think this has much to do with Islam…”

The report seems quite clear to me.

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EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 12:42 pm

I’ve read the report. This really isn’t about underage sex with unsuitable partners, or the inability of parents or those in loco parentis to police teenage sexuality. There are very serious allegations of criminality here: gang-rape, drugs, abduction, extortion etc. A good deal more serious than those against CR, RH, DLT, FS etc. What is being discussed in the report is not consensual experimentation by horny teens. Now either we believe the report or we don’t, but I don’t think we should muddy the waters by saying the Rotherham allegations are identical with Justin and Sophie “discovering each other” on a joint-family holiday in the South of France.

GildasTheMonk August 27, 2014 at 2:44 pm: I agree

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Joe Public August 27, 2014 at 6:13 pm: From:- http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Easy-Meat-Multiculturalism-Islam-and-Child-Sex-Slavery-05-03-2014.pdf

“Many girls are terrified and with reason… a girl had her tongue nailed to the table when she threatened to tell.
– former government advisor, Daily Mail, 2008”

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Ms Mildred August 27, 2014 at 12:49 pm

This whole business is a mish mash of competing issues. Children ‘out of control’…especially girls, not a new problem. Possible alleged racism. A growing police awareness of the threat of Moslem radicalism amongst home grown males and the occasional female. Northern towns blessed with large numbers of ‘heritage’ male persons with nothing better to do than hunt down ‘captive’ groups of despised young kuffar females, ‘groom’ them, by giving them treats, then hand them round their friends. Call the Midwife by Worth has a very graphic outspoken section on this vile process. Sickening in the telling, in an otherwise rather mild book. True or not I do not know. Please note it was the nineteen fifties! No one comes out of these affairs smelling of roses. As for the police, facing up to these difficult ethnic conundrums…they would rather pathetically attack white worn out old farts, WOOFS, with a bit of dosh to splash around the anonymous allegators, than deal with more up to date issues as they become apparent. However the strident racism lobby prevail. Any dramatic action against these priapic ‘heritage ‘persons might be disected and mulled over for years without end by those clever enough to employ an expert legal brain to speak up for them. Result a police force too fearful to tackle people of ‘heritage’ full on. When they do, sometimes there are sickening riots, or a prosecution fails. Result…young girls being ‘groomed’, then badly used. Result, a severe attack of cognitive dissonance on police’s part, and Crown Persecution Service as well (persecute old celebrity farts), no riots and burnings there, are there? Result the clever lawyers latch onto yet another group of ‘survivors’. The ? bottomless public purse raided, once again, to line lawyers pockets.

Ed P August 27, 2014 at 1:02 pm

There’s a deafening silence from Rotherham’s Muslims.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 2:09 pm

Isn’t there always..?

Gil August 27, 2014 at 4:21 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-27/rotherham-muslim-youth-abusers-must-be-punished/
“Muslims disgusted justice was not done: By Muhbeen Hussain, Founder of Rotherham Muslim Youth Group …”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rotherham-child-abuse-scandal-paedophile-4113152
https://twitter.com/MuhbeenH
https://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/is-that-muhbeen-hussain-i-see-before-me/

Jacqui Thornton August 27, 2014 at 7:00 pm

So are we agreed there is not a deafening silence from Rotherham’s Muslims then?

Gil August 27, 2014 at 10:28 pm: http://www.mcb.org.uk/child-abuse-in-rotherham-we-cannot-let-this-happen-again/

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JuliaM August 28, 2014 at 8:36 am: No we’re not. The examples Gill points out aren’t enough. Actions speak louder than words. When these people are driven out of the shelters of their communities and not simply welcomed back in once the lax ‘justice’ system has finished with them, we’ll know there’s been a sea-change:

http://dailym.ai/1tEbc4x

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The Slog August 27, 2014 at 1:36 pm

The Rothers collusion between cops, Labour Councillors and Islamic taxi drivers has been around for some time, but guaranteed to earn a Spike for anyone silly enough to submit posts/add comment threads on any but the bravest sites.
This site remains one of the bravest. Rant on Raccoon, you’re in good form.

Meanwhile, the elephant in the room must not be noticed. So here’s a hairy mammoth called Rolf Harris. Truly, a travesty Show Trial. And equally, lots of nasty motives for stitching the poor guy up:
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/the-paedofile-rolf-harris-case-a-travesty-in-court-and-the-corporacratic-motives-behind-it/

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 4:03 pm

“The Rothers collusion between cops, Labour Councillors and Islamic taxi drivers has been around for some time….”

More, please, John. My gut instinct tells me that we are in the middle of a huge spin operation to lay the blame at the door of “political correctness,” the vast international Islamicist conspiracy to degrade white women, or organised kiddie-fiddlers, of whatever stripe. This is exactly the sort of thing guaranteed to ensure everyone will run round in circles, bashing their favourite Aunt Sally, and absolutely no one in power in Rotherham in the period in question will ever face charges of any kind.

I am fairly sure this is yet another example of gross incompetence and corruption at the local level, a la “The Red Riding Trilogy”. What we now call “grooming of underage white girls by Paki paedophiles who are commanded to do so by the Koran” is very similar to how forced prostitution is “done” all over the world and by all sorts, from Palermo to Pittsburgh. Now what I would like to know more about is this “collusion” you refer to, but I am not holding my breath

Ian B August 28, 2014 at 1:51 am

A lot of people seem to be ignoring the part of the report (11:14 onwards) that describes Muslim/Pakistani girls being targetted.

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 2:28 pm: Well, it doesn’t suit their narrative does it?

This isn’t about criminal racketeering, enabled by a (fill-in-the-blanks-no-names-no-libel-action) police force, and a corrupt local administration but something else we would much rather talk about instead.

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Rightwinggit August 27, 2014 at 1:38 pm

Anna said:

“Most of the men were of Pakistani origin”

Therefore, it IS a Pakistani problem.

Don Cox August 27, 2014 at 4:17 pm

Pakistan is a big country. I think the important thing is that these men derive from the most primitive tribal regions of Pakistan.

They might be compared to the Vikings, for instance.

Rightwinggit August 27, 2014 at 11:32 pm: They’re muslims.

I’ve had the displeasure of working with them.

The only good one, is a dead one.

Oh, and I’m Saxon.

So, in my language, fuck off, you cunt.

And why did our tosshole government let the most primitive in?

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windsock August 27, 2014 at 1:39 pm

At the age of 14 I was offered a ride in a car by two strange men (white) who had pulled up alongside me. They offered to take me to their place “for a drink”. I knew what they meant and I knew I wanted to (being curious and hormonal)… but I didn’t because I had already learned at that point that everything has consequences and I knew enough to know I could not predict what they would be if I accepted the invitation. Whether that came from experience, good parenting or good schooling, I’m not sure. Probably a combination of all three.

Perhaps we should be putting more emphasis on consequences, both for young people who may or may not know what they are getting into, and also those old enough to know better but think they can get away with it and that applies to cultures, managers of institutions and DJs/pop stars. All I see is a lot of hand wringing and shirking or responsibility.

One of your best pieces, Anna.

windsock August 27, 2014 at 1:44 pm: edit… “shirking of responsibility”…

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English Pensioner August 27, 2014 at 2:16 pm

Part of the reasons behind the lack of parental control is the State interfering in how one brings up children. One can no longer smack them and a determined child can just run wild. I watched a child of about 6 or so in the supermarket screaming her head off because her mother wouldn’t buy her something and in her temper knocked a whole row of packets off the shelf.
In my day, if either of my daughters had done that, not only would she have had an immediate hard slap, but she’d have been confined to her room for the rest of the day (without phone, TV, internet, etc) and probably without dinner as well. It didn’t do either of them any harm, and they clearly don’t resent it otherwise they wouldn’t come round to visit us or invite us out so frequently
Do that now and there’s hell to pay, I’ve seen a mother in the supermarket just give a child a gentle slap and everyone around is “tut-tuting”. It’s not entirely the parents’ fault that these children are out of control, society has a lot to answer for.

Ho Hum August 27, 2014 at 11:32 pm

A Scottish Pensioner agrees.

Sigillum August 28, 2014 at 12:24 pm: I agree too

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Joe Public August 27, 2014 at 2:55 pm

For further insight, try this March 2014 report ‘ “Easy Meat” Multiculturalism, Islam and Child Sex Slavery’

“Foreword:
This is a shocking report. It is written with care, but the evidence is hard to believe. Readers should beware, because there is something to feel angry about on most pages: the prevalence of the crime; the length of time that it has continued; its blatancy; the lengths our authorities have gone to in order to cover up for it; but most of all, the vulnerability and suffering of the victims.”

http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Easy-Meat-Multiculturalism-Islam-and-Child-Sex-Slavery-05-03-2014.pdf

Jacqui Thornton August 27, 2014 at 7:12 pm

This is the second time I have seen this report mentioned on here today. What do we know of it’s origins? I have just looked up the ‘Law and Freedom Foundation’ but all I have found so far is this, http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/spike-johnson-mosquebusters-creeping-sharia-edl-gavin-boby. Anyone able to offer anything else as to their credibility and agenda?

Anna Raccoon August 27, 2014 at 7:30 pm

I would like to know that too Jaquie – looks impressive, but I would like to know the pedigree….

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 7:49 pm

Anna, google Peter McLoughlin (the report’s “author”) and EDL.

Happy hunting

Boby is all over the net: his MO is to claim he is preventing a civil war between Muslims and non-Muslims by stamping out the excesses of “Islamicisation” and we should all be grateful to him. He has quite a large social media footprint.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261623/Mosque-buster-claims-stop-tide-Islam-giving-free-advice-block-building-plans-new-places-worship.html

Jacqui Thornton August 28, 2014 at 2:14 am

Yes, did not take much digging. Promoted on the ‘Law and Freedom Foundation’ (previously known as ‘Mosqubusters’), website, and endorsed by the EDL. Nuff said…

JuliaM August 28, 2014 at 8:38 am

Ah, but Jacqui, haven’t the EDL been proved right..?

wiggia August 28, 2014 at 3:23 pm: As was, more tut tutting, this man arrested for daring to speak about it all ………………
http://bnp.org.uk/news/media-admits-nick-griffin-has-been-right-all-along-over-muslim-paedophile-gangs

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Joe Public August 28, 2014 at 2:45 pm

Whilst I was unaware of the writer’s background, at least he provides source references for virtually every statement made. OK, some can be questionable (e.g. HuffPo), but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

It precedes the ‘official’ report by 5 months.

It also explains the mind-set of (many of) those of a particular heritage.

You ask “Anyone able to offer anything else as to their credibility and agenda?” Was their prediction true or not?

eric hardcastle August 27, 2014 at 3:23 pm

Meanwhile in my new addiction to “reality TV” I have been watching Sun Sea Sex & Suspicious Parents in Oz and pondering that
(a) the yoof of today are sexually amoral- or are so when they are blind drunk
(b) My Moroccan hotelier pal is correct when he told me the whole of the Medeterranen is now stuffed and each ‘resort’ resembles the last one
(c) That judge who recently retired gave good advice when she said young females should not write themselves off
(d) none of the contestants in the above show seem to be Asian
(e) Mark Williams-Thomas & the NSPCC must feel sick at missing the boat on Rotherham

oi you August 27, 2014 at 3:35 pm

(e) missing the boat…

By their lack of response, you’d almost think they were pleased they’d missed it.

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 5:07 pm: Never did I think I’d see the day when MWT kept his trap shut! Who says this cloud has no silver lining?

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Daisy Ray August 27, 2014 at 3:48 pm

You’re right about every moral entrepreneur going scrambling on the boat. Sky News made the mistake of asking Peter Saunders of NAPAC to put in his twopennorth. He obviously hadn’t read so much as a press release about Rotherham, so responded with completely random rant which incorporated Geoffrey Dickens’ dossier and “one in four children are abused’, ending predictably with a request for money. So very helpful. Incidentally, won’t mass sackings of social workers,cops,councilors and any other head the mob think should roll render child protection in Rotherham even more chaotic than it appears to be already?

JuliaM August 27, 2014 at 5:07 pm: Is that even possible?

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Cascadian August 27, 2014 at 5:07 pm

The landlady is always very thorough in her research, however this time I think she has ignored a significant factor in how the abuse was enabled.

Within the last twenty years it has been very much in vogue to teach young girls that they are independent and can make their own decisions, to the point where (perhaps) very young immature girls (eleven year-old?) might be defiant of their parents best efforts to restrain her from provocative or naive behaviour. It is all very well to argue that parents should have control over their teen daughters but when faced by the tide of some of the sillier feminist ideas fed to these girls in the schools where they are taught that they can “report” their parents if they attempt to physically restrain their daughters from stupid actions, it is easy to see why parents cannot wield the power necessary to convince their daughters of the wisdom of their actions. The patriarchy must never be able to mould sensible behaviour, pity the fathers and the poor mothers in the face of such nonsense.

In short, parents are being failed by multiple levels of the government. At school, by the police, by social services and the courts, all of whom seem to shrug and concede to “girl-power” and the feninists.

That this has allowed cynical muslims to exploit the situation is undoubted, though looking at the photos of the accused it seems obvious that inbreeding and mental capacity also has to be considered.

Like others I do believe a political component is being ignored, these socialist hell-holes are Britains equivalent of Detroit and Chicago where the police, social services and I would hazrd to guess the judiciary are thoroughly infested with right-on socialists providing the worst of service.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 5:36 pm

@ mental capacity also has to be considered @
The anonymity of the victims helps maintain the media notions of fragrantly pale and thin English middle-class roses. I wonder if some were of Afro-Caribbean extraction. No way to know. I recall some Romanies or somesuch got banged up a while ago, with the evil (Caucasian) foreigners crying out in court that the girls never said No, so what was the crime? Drugs also seem to me to be the pivot of the cultural shift betwixt the 1960’s and the point of arrival now. Muslim girls don’t get drunk either.

Anna Raccoon August 27, 2014 at 5:39 pm

“It is easy to see why parents cannot wield the power necessary to convince their daughters of the wisdom of their actions”

I totally agree with you Cascadian – and with those who say ‘muslim culture’ enabled this particular incident – my point was merely that a lot of the shouting and screaming going on today has more to do with racism, and political point scoring than genuine concern for abused children.

There are girls under 18 – under 16 indeed, having sex all over the country, without outcry – there are also girls getting beaten up, raped, and murdered. What distinguishes this particular incident is both the nationality of the perpetrators – which makes little or no difference to the physical harm done by having sex – and the fact that they were in the care of the local authority – which again, makes little or no difference to the physical harm done by having sex too early.

The issue of the rapes and violence is a separate issue – which should rightly be condemned.

What I object to is a) those using this issue as an opportunity to let out their inner racist under the guise of moralising. b) Those using it to further their careers or open up new heads of legal action which is profitable for them and c) That many thousands of those doing so also have teenage children engaged in sex with ‘older men’, being ‘plied with alcohol’ by older men, and they turn a blind eye to it because they basically have no objection to the men concerned since they are reasonable marriage prospects and besides ‘their daughter is sensible’ and they have ‘talked to her about contraception’.

I spent last night having a furious exchange with someone whose daughter has been sleeping with different men since she was 14 – mostly around the 22 to 25 age group ‘because boys her own age are so childish’ and who violently objected to me saying that was no different to the attitude of some of the Rotherham parents and who then proceeded to castigate the local authority ‘because they were paid to look after those girls and should have stopped it….followed by the inevitable ‘but didn’t because they were Muslims’.

Ms Mildred hit the nail on the head saying that Rotherham has conflated a number of different issues. It is not that I don’t think Rotherham is important – its more that I don’t think it is more important than the general issue of child abuse.

Cascadian August 27, 2014 at 10:24 pm: @Anna Raccoon, well I consider that very high praise indeed, thank you.

While I am in almost total agreement with your comments that this issue should not be used for unwarranted racial abuse, it would be foolish to try to ignore the cohort that bought about this report. As to any analysis of underage female abuse, I concede entirely to your life experience-you are the pre-eminent commentator on this issue. Having said that, I find I still have some sympathy with commentors who wish to highlight failings of the system caused by a highly sensitized bureaucracy not wishing to challenge the current multicultural orthodoxy.

Ms Mildred’s comments are indeed worth re-reading as are English Pensioner. I only wish that Elena Andcart would make an appearance with her sensible analysis.

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Ho Hum August 27, 2014 at 11:30 pm: I only managed to skim this earlier today, but my first thought was that a lot of the comments were missing the point you were making. Now that you’ve reiterated it, many of them still seem to be. Hang in there, Anna. Remember that often prophets are without honour, even amongst those who think they know them best…

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Gil August 27, 2014 at 5:40 pm

The idea of well-meaning parents unable to control wayward children led astray by right-on feminists doesn’t seem to tally with this:

5:12 “One child who was being prepared to give evidence received a text saying the perpetrator had her younger sister and the choice of what happened next was up to her. She withdrew her statements. At least two other families were terrorised by groups of perpetrators, sitting in cars outside the family home, smashing windows, making abusive and threatening phone calls. On some occasions child victims went back to perpetrators in the belief that this was the only way their parents and other children in the family would be safe. In the most extreme cases, no one in the family believed that the authorities could protect them.”
5.15 “…The perpetrators targeted children’s residential units and residential services for care leavers…”
5.16 “…Many of the case files we read described children who had troubled family backgrounds, with a history of domestic violence, parental addiction, and in some cases serious mental health problems. A significant number of the victims had a history of child neglect and/or sexual abuse when they were younger…”

Cascadian August 27, 2014 at 7:32 pm: I think you missed my point, or I did not make myself clear.

It seems to me young girls indoctrinated by puerile “girl-power” and having been made aware of their ‘uman rites by well-meaning but ultimately enabling teachers and social workers can easily argue they free to do whatever they please “and nobody can stop me”. In the face of that parents have to weigh a potential visit from the police if the little madam exerts her “rights” but the parents bar her exit from the harm.

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Fat Steve August 27, 2014 at 7:30 pm

@Cascadian ‘these socialist hell-holes’—- a memorably good turn of phrase in relation what I think is one of the more important elements in a story that has too many strands to take out any single key point. I doubt ethnicity/religion as being the most important element to explains how these events came about. It may though have rather a great deal to do with the culture of a predominantly working class town in England –and Anna makes a fair point that the middle classes have their own view on appropriate cultural responses to under age sex which is by no means different in substance.
Just one observation though and that is the whole complex model of child protection clearly failed comprehensively —everyone’s and no one’s fault –when that happens the model itself is flawed and needs to be rethought —forget politics –forget special interest groups—forget moral entrepreneurs —forget political correctness —-let them all but out and stop whinging and proselytising —and just get on and turn back the cultural clock to a time when life was adequately secure that this sort of thing was not so predictable. It is the poverty of the ambitions of the young encouraged by the poverty of vision of those who have care for them (be it parents or state) that leads to poor outcomes

Pete August 27, 2014 at 6:03 pm

It’s all very well blaming their parents for not stopping them. A few years ago a young woman was interviewed on R4. A few years previously, when she 15 I think, she’d been in a relationship with an older guy of which her dad disapproved. He physically prevented her from leaving the house to go and see him, whereupon she phoned the police, told them he had assaulted her (not sexual assault, just that he’d forcibly restrained her). They arrested him and took him away. The girl continued her relationship with the older guy until she herself eventually realised it was a bad idea. So what were these parents supposed to do? Physically prevent them and get arrested? Or do nothing, and be accused of gross negligence?

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 6:21 pm

A year or two back a father of “Asian” heritage (from the names) was killed in Canada. His daughter went out against his continual protests. He tracked her down. She was with “boys” and shouted to them that “a paedo” was after her. One of the “boys” punched the fellow for her, and it was presumably one of those lucky lumberjack punches – and the father died as he hit the ground unconcious. The “boy” was done for manslaughter and got about six years I think. The comments on the reportage were full of raging arguments that it was the father’s own fault for not having a proper relationship with his daughter. And everyone lived happily ever after.

Mr Wray September 1, 2014 at 7:06 pm: Unfortunately Moor there is a continuum of relationship outcomes from the failed to the successful. Not everyone is able to maintain successful relationships with their children. Within the failed group not everyone fails with all their children. Some parents may only have one ‘wayward’ child and other ‘well behaved’ ones. The factors that effect outcomes are legion and made so much worse by poverty and poor education.

No, the blame here lies firmly with the criminals not the parents.

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eric hardcastle August 27, 2014 at 6:45 pm

http://linkis.com/labourlist.org/Nxnpo

Why Pakistanis should be angry as everyone else with what happened in Rotherham

Simon August 27, 2014 at 7:44 pm

I took the time to read the Report – partly for reasons of necessity (as a Councillor in Bradford, I fear much of this is close to home) and partly because I’m always sceptical about the reporting of these matters by our newspapers and broadcast media. I also understand your cynicism.

However, the report really struck home when it, for example, described one case:

“Her father provided Risky Business with all the information he had been able to obtain about the details of how and where his daughter had been exploited and abused, and who the perpetrators were…Three months later, the social care manager recorded on the file that Child H had been assessed as at no risk of sexual exploitation, and the case was closed.”

So the Council were told about the problem, provided with information and decided not to act. The Author of the report cites a dozen or so such cases including indications that social work staff were intimidated:

“Notes from the children’s unit files at the time suggest there was a level of chaos surrounding the care of Child E and other children in the unit, with staff powerless as older children in the residential units introduced younger and more vulnerable children like Child E to predatory adult males who were targeting children’s homes.”

It may be that the big scary numbers are an exaggeration, it might be that we should make less of the ethnicity of perpetrators and victims, but the Report unquestionably describes a total failure on behalf of the Council’s social workers and the South Yorkshire police. Although wrapped in familiar words the conclusions included this:

“Time and again we read in the files and other documents of children being violently raped, beaten, forced to perform sex acts in taxis and cars when they were being trafficked between towns, and serially abused by large numbers of men. Many children repeatedly self-harmed and some became suicidal. They suffered family breakdown and some became homeless. Several years after they had been abused, a disproportionate number were victims of domestic violence, had developed long-standing drug and alcohol addiction, and had parenting difficulties with their own children, resulting in child protection/children in need interventions. Some suffered post-traumatic stress and other emotional and psychological problems, often undiagnosed and untreated. ”

All this evidence came, not from interviews with victims conducted years after the event, but from the Council’s own files on actual cases written down at the time the abuse was taking place.

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 7:59 pm

Quite. I would also like to know why three separate enquiries between 2002 and 2006 were ignored and suppressed, and I don’t think the answer is “rampant political correctness”.

Good luck with that, Simon – you’ll need it.

Mudplugger August 27, 2014 at 10:06 pm: Simon will certainly need it.

Rotherham’s population is around 250,ooo, Bradford’s is around 500,000.

Assuming a similar profile of offending, that sounds like almost 3,000 victims over the same period in Bradford – yet no stampede of reported cases from there – looks like the Bradford ‘rotten borough’ may be even more wilfully blind that the Rotherham one.

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Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 8:40 pm

@ indications that social work staff were intimidated: … staff powerless as older children in the residential units introduced younger and more vulnerable children like Child E @
Something I took very strongly from the landlady’s text is that the beaurocracy need seriously to sort out the differences between “children” and “juvenile teenagers” and “young adults”, and then house and deal with them accordingly. Fifty years ago a fifteen year old could be working in a factory. Soon nobody will be allowed to leave school until they are 18. Progress? Fine if you like school and are good at it.

One thing I do remember starkly from being a kid in the Sixties was that we were not afraid of adults but we always made sure we hid from “the big lads” when we were out playing in lonely places. I imagine now that they were aged 14 to 16 or so. That probably explains my fascination with “Lord of the Flies” at the time and since.

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 9:07 pm

@ Moor, yes, nothing new about that. it was so in my day, too some 10 years later.

The 2011 Barnardo’s Report into what they call child sex exploitation, but I call “forced prostitution” makes the point that the pimps are getting younger. There is a good deal of evidence that slightly older teens are being used to induct younger kids into rings – sometimes the older teens actually see it as step on the ladder themselves, progressing from apprentices to jouneymen.

But if you read the reports, i’ve read you are looking at a completely incompetent, demoralised and ineffective care system, in Rotherham, whose problems had nothing to do with being indoctrinated by looney-feminist-Trotskyites to ignore the evidence of their own eyes: namely that girls were being “turned out” by criminal gangs. there are also serious issues to do with how the police operated, and the relationship between local politicans and police.

Moor Larkin August 27, 2014 at 9:57 pm

I seem to recall there was an incompetent, demoralised and inneffective care system in Doncaster. Same fundamental problem too.
“Council hit headlines when two boys in its care tortured two small children”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2299761/Doncaster-Council-lose-right-care-children-wake-foster-children-torture-scandal.html

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 10:13 pm: indeed, Moor. The Audit Commission’s report back in 2010 opened: ‘Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council is failing.’

‘The Council is not properly run and as a result it is failing in its legal obligation to make arrangements to secure continuous improvement in the way in which it exercises its functions, having regard to a combination of economy, efficiency and effectiveness.

‘Those leading the Council – the Mayor and Cabinet, some councillors and some officers – do not collectively have the capacity or capability to make the necessary improvements in governance.’

The leader of the Council and the Mayor came from the English Democrat Party at the time.

Rotten boroughs.

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Katabasis August 27, 2014 at 8:02 pm

I’ve been quite sympathetic to your scepticism over the many celebrity paedophila scandals we’ve had thrown at us in the last few year Anna.

However, you seem to be the one knee-jerking in this case.

You can’t have read the same report I did and wrote what you did above.

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 8:52 pm

http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/child-sex-exploitation-what-they-dont-want-you-to-know-hmic-report/

This interesting little blog (undoubtedly a joint effort) gives quite a good insight into what Private Eye would call a “rotten borough”. A quick scout around its numerous weblog headings (not all of them to do with the Big Case, by any means) paints an interesting picture. I am tempted to recall the great toast from The Red Riding Trilogy: “Here’s to the North – where we do what we like.” Do check out exaclty how Councillors and Police ensured complaints were “disappeared”. It’s on the homepage. I leave it up to you to decide whether this collusion was a result of a fear of being labelled institutionally racist, because I can think of much simpler explanations.

Incompetence, corruption, and a sense of impunity. That’s what I call it.

And that is the very last thing they want it to be called. Just look at the attitude of Shaun Wright, who has his fingers in many pies, according to the Rotherham bloggers. if they can say it was all down to central government enforcing political correctness on them between 1996 and 1014, they will. “Look over there, not over here.”

Sigillum August 27, 2014 at 9:43 pm

Well said

JuliaM August 28, 2014 at 8:42 am: In resigning from the Labour Party, the better to dig himself deeper into Rotherham’s finances like the blood engorged tick that he is, Shaun Wright just presented Ed Miliband with the challenge that may well break him…

*popcorn*

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Sigillum August 27, 2014 at 9:29 pm

There was a powerful piece on Radio 5 this afternoon. A young woman using the pseudonym (see below) Sarah, of “Pakistani origin” explained how a close relative has been convicted of similar offences. She pulled no punches. In certain aspects of Pakistani culture boys are adored and can do no wrong. Girls are of marginal significance. Any reports of complaints of behaviour like this would be met with complete denial, she said, and – her words not mine – playing the race card. To these men, any non Muslim woman was regarded with contempt. Her view was that abuse of women is a constant aspect of Pakistani – Pakistani marriage too; a matter which I have repeatedly observed in my job, actually.
She has protested at her close relative’s behaviour, hence why she had to use a pseudonym – she had been abused and driven from her home by threats, and worse.
Not a nice culture.
I will try and find a link to the interview when it is posted on the 5 Live Website

erichardcastle August 28, 2014 at 4:58 am

But the problem lies with her doesn’t it?
She is the one caught between 2 cultures and cherry picking the bits from each that suit her and rejecting likewise.

Robert the Biker August 28, 2014 at 7:15 am

Isn’t that what integration is about? You fit in with the host culture, but no one expects you to eat fish and chips three times a week, the same as I (family here since Saxon times) am permitted to eat a curry.

Moor Larkin August 29, 2014 at 10:28 am: Struck me that the domineering male set-up in the culture lies behind some of the eventual problems between young women from a modern Western culture and men from this more traditional set-up. The girls grow up a bit and suddenly don’t find “doing what he tells me” the same attractive proposition they did whilst romantically-minded teenagers. Cue relationship breakdown and eventual re-interpretations of the past. What exactly did go wrong between Imran Khan and Jemima Goldsmith, the golden couple of Multi-Kulti? Nobody has ever even asked the question so far as I know, not that Jemima was exactly a teenager back then but a rich daddy tends to keep a young girl young.

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Sigillum August 27, 2014 at 9:38 pm

It’s here at 1 hour 13 minutes. You can move the cursor at the bottom to get to the interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04f8997

It is powerful stuff

Fat Steve August 28, 2014 at 11:18 am

@Sigillium at 1 hour 13 minutes
A really interesting interview —interesting how the Interviewer was trying to lead the interview (and succeeding to some limited extent) but two key points as I saw them
1. Its how your parents bring you up –which I think might be better expressed as what your parents don’t try to convince is acceptable
2. The ‘system’ failed and can’t be relied upon—and so perhaps the ‘system’ may be fatally flawed and I speculate perhaps because it tries to be all things to all men rather than concentrating on what is SAFEST for the child.

Sigillum August 28, 2014 at 12:29 pm

He is am awful interviewer but I think it got to the root of the matter. It is the mindset of a certain aspect of Pakistani society. When she says it has nothing to do with Islam properly understood, from my researches and study I tend to agree

Joe Public August 28, 2014 at 3:01 pm: Not ‘nothing to do with Islam’, but the mindset of a certain aspect of Pakistani society is a more-extreme interpretation of Islam.

In order of importance, it is Muslim men, a distant second – Muslim women, and then the rest of us kafirs. The latter, if in the control of the former, may be slaves.

Chilling reading is this:-

http://islamqa.info/en/5707

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Mudplugger August 27, 2014 at 9:56 pm

Accepting the Landlady’s key point about parenting, whether natural or in-loco, there are a few other over-riding issues at play here.

First is that for the past 20 years we have witnessed the over-sexualisation of young children, particularly girls. Blame the Spice Girls if you must, but it has been a wider combination of entertainment and marketing, accidental or otherwise, which has brought them to a high level of sexual awareness far earlier than any other generation.

Secondly, the culture in immigrant Muslim homes is quite different from most other origins. Boy-children, especially the first-born, can do no wrong, they are almost worshipped from birth as the future patriarch of the family. No questions are asked of their external behaviour by parents, as that would be to demean their position in the family’s future. At the same time, girl-children are determinedly protected from exposure to any extra-familiar influences, especially those of a sexual nature. Add naturally burgeoning testosterone into this mix in a Western environment, and the boys will seek out channels to fulfil their needs, using their fondness for, and availability of, ‘bling’ to attract targets susceptible to their approaches – these targets are mostly to be readily found amongst the more vulnerable of young, white, early-teenaged girls, vulnerable for whatever reasons, most often inadequate parenting.

The third facet is the political dimension: when those people or parties who encouraged multiculturalism can see it going so badly wrong, and so are concerned that their political investment in that principle risks being devalued, their only available response is to invoke political correctness to provide cover, in the hope it will render the problem invisible.

And the final sub-element is that all this takes place in some of the politically most ‘rotten boroughs’ in the country. When one party exercises such absolute control over local services and influence over the local police force, when any opposition or questioning is dismissed without effect, when both the elected and employed officials drink from the same trough, there is no accountability, so no fear of consequences, it’s all business as usual, mutual back-scratching of almost masonic proportions.

None of the above excuses the indefensible actions of those Asian young men, or the incredible naivety of those impressionable, if vulnerable, young girls but it provides some of the background framework in which this has been allowed to develop.
All proven perpetrators should be prosecuted, all blinkered officials should be fired, all involved Muslim families should be deeply ashamed – but I fear that none of that list will be achieved.

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 10:31 pm

I’d agree with all of those, mudplugger – except they are not of equal weight.

Girls can be as sexed-up as you like and Muslim first-borns spoiled randy beasts, but what we are talking about here is organised forced prostitution of girls within the care system, (meaning they were already in a sh*t-load of trouble,) right under the noses of police, care-workers and local government. This was ignored and covered up by those very same agencies.

if the latter had done their jobs properly, none of this would have happened.

remember: this is criminal behaviour, as described in the various Rotherham reports – including the three earlier ones which were suppressed. We are not talking about cheeky little madams putting it about with boys from a different ethnic background, who regard them as cheap sluts, the silly things, they’ll grow out of it. We are talking about multiple rape by multiple perpetarators, physical assault (of the girl’s families too), coerced prostitution and a variety of other very serious criminal offences. No one can pretend this is anything other than criminality. it is not a life-style choice for young girls , it is not acceptable by Muslims as “part of their culture” and something they expect their first-borns to do, as onet of the perks of male primogeniture. it is sheer criminality.

Now this is what we need to be looking at. Where were the police in all this? – because believe me, they knew. That has been accepted.

Mudplugger August 27, 2014 at 10:56 pm

I agree, hence my idealist hope that all blinkered officials should be fired – above all it is appalling and indefensible criminality, including conspiracy, and should be fully prosecuted wherever possible.
But the realist in me recognises that it will not happen – in a rotten borough like Rotherham (and many others), the ingrained mutuality between all the ‘authorities’ ensures that damage to any members will be limited, ranks will be closed, only external agents accused, anything except bringing the truly guilty to account. Apart from the many abused victims, that’s the other great sadness in all this.

EyesWideShut August 27, 2014 at 11:57 pm: Yes. I honestly believe that all this chat about “the responsibility of the Muslim community (not the state, you’ll note) to sort their own criminals out on the state’s behalf” and “political correctness meant nothing could ever be done about a non-white offender” is a smokescreen. Unfortunately, quite a few people seem to be primed to fall for it.

A close reading of the report shows that police regarded the complainants with contempt, social workers were frightened, over-whelmed and underpaid and councillors were uninterested. If not downright collusive, as the Rotherham blog I have linked to would appear to indicate.

it bears all the hall-marks of a classic case of corrupt and incompetent local government. And there are many of them.

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erichardcastle August 28, 2014 at 4:56 am

I have good friends who are Greek and you describe the family set-up to a tee.
There is the ‘British’ factor- that Britain expects everyone to conform to their notion of correct behaviour.
I see this throughout Asia but most especially in Thailand where there is a huge ex-pat British contingent.
They love the ease & inexpensive life but still, every now and then, demand Thailand somehow conform to their ‘morality’.

GildasTheMonk August 28, 2014 at 12:30 pm

Well said, Mudplugger

Engineer August 27, 2014 at 10:01 pm

Lots of discussion about the history, but less about what should happen now.

Obviously, there has been serious criminality going on, so that needs to be addressed, immediately. Whether Rotherham plod are up to it is a moot point; one for South Yorkshire Constabulary. I think I also agree with Theresa May that Shaun Wright’s position as elected Police Commissioner is untenable, especially as he was council cabinet member with responsibility for children’s services whilst some of this mayhem was going on. He has to step aside if he has any honour, surely?

Then an overhaul of Social Services. As so often, it seems the working grades had a pretty good idea about what was going on, but management and leadership was seriously lacking. So management needs changing, at both political and executive levels.

That addresses (or starts to) the immediate problems in Rotherham. What about the wider problem of child abuse, grooming for prostitution, and the apparent negative attitudes of some sections of society towards young women of other races and religions?

Firstly, a careful check that it isn’t happening elsewhere. If it is, deal with it.

Secondly, does sex education in schools and at home go far enough? I know it’s almost impossible to tell some youngsters anything – they always think they know it all until they find out the hard way – but maybe it should cover not just the mechanics of sex (how to put a condom on a banana – very handy), but the dangers of STDs, and the differences between positive relationships and negative, potentially damaging ones. That might at least forewarn some teenage girls of the possible dangers of being conned into negative relationships.

Thirdly, and perhaps most sensitively, it does seem that some in the Muslim community do take parts of the Koran too literally; the bits about non-Muslims being effectively second class at best, or worthless compared to Muslims. That’s definitely not a British Value, and perhaps it should be (politely) pointed out to the less enlightened ‘teachers’ by the more responsible ones. That nettle does need to be grasped, before even more ammunition is handed to the bigots spouting religious hatred. It might even go some way to addressing the problem of ‘jihad’ too.

wiggia August 28, 2014 at 3:46 pm: Oh it’s happening elsewhere…………..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22617339

plus the Newcastle one the Police have been trying to hush up involving 120 arrests.

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Opus August 27, 2014 at 10:04 pm

So which is it? – that the young English females (adolescents I would say) of Rotherham are strong and empowered females confident in their own body and in their own sexuality, as we are told women should be these days – and plenty that I have had the misfortune to come across are as rude and arrogant as they are entitled and vacuous – or; that these are vulnerable children let down by social services and preyed upon by evil males?

Is the truth perhaps that the social experiment of the last forty years, in fatherless families, free contraceptive pills, abortion and divorce on demand, has created a monster the state cannot control as Rotherham goes St Trinian’s crazy even as the chattering-classes of Islington and Camden insist that the politically correct pronouncements that come from Westminster accurately reflect England as it is, even as it chases-down yet one more aging entertainer who once many decades ago allegedly placed his hand, just there, for a micro-second too long.

It is quite possible that I have entirely misunderstood the situation.

erichardcastle August 28, 2014 at 4:49 am: I did say back in the early 80s that Maggie’s social experiments would lead to what you have correctly explained. New Labour willfully aided as well.

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Alexander Baron August 27, 2014 at 10:20 pm

I haven’t read the entire report yet but leaving aside the loaded language – trafficked, ie taken someone in a car – I’m wondering how much of this we can believe. There have been convictions of gangs – sound convictions – but the rape of an 11 year old girl is a very different proposition from the “grooming” of a 15 year old. Girls of that age should be kept on a tight rein. How can such a crime not be reported? I would have thought for a rape of that nature one perpetrator should be looking at 10 years and up.

AdrianS August 27, 2014 at 10:23 pm

A few thoughts. All the time the police spent investigating historic celebs abuse they could have been looking at this lot. Will Bill Wyman get a knock on the door from the old bill as well?
Hopefully Doreen Lawrence will have something interesting to say on this lot.
The law is not equal at all !

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 9:07 am: Bill was reported in the newspapers as having gone to the old Bill himself when savilisation all first started. He was told they had no interest in him and to go home and not worry. Pete Townshend gave an interview where he appeared to have said that Peter Spindler himself sent him a letter, telling him that the police never really thought he was a paedo, so he was not to worry either.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/who-are-you-who-who-who-who.html

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Engineer August 27, 2014 at 10:45 pm

Testing….

ivan August 28, 2014 at 12:22 am: Passed!

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Dave August 28, 2014 at 12:03 am

As far as I’m concerned it is criminality, plain & simple.

Organised gangs preyed on vulnerable females. Everybody knew. No-one did anything. Why?

Cover up upon cover up. Why?

We read stories that councillors were leaned on to shut them up. The police looked the other way or arrested the wrong people. Why?

Gildas noted that it was South Yorkshire Police who sent a fleet of cars to search Cliff Richard’s home
South Yorkshire Police also tried to cover up their failings in the Hillsborough disaster.
South Yorkshire Police failed to act on these complaints and allegations for years
Is there a picture emerging?

Shaun Wright (the Police commissioner) is in this up to his eyeballs.

So less talk about young people’s sleeping habits- and more focus on the criminals please

suffolkgirl August 28, 2014 at 12:09 am

I’ve read the report now and I would salute Anna for making it so readily available. This hasn’t been the case on many other comment sites. I find it hard to evaluate. All of the evidence is taken from samples of case files and recollections now of past events. One particularly frustrating point is that in some of the worst cases of intimidation it isn’t very clear how much was shared with the police. Some case s show that the girls in question refused to absolutely to cooperate. It also seems to show that current cases are being better handled by the police, which makes the demands on all sides for the Commissioner’s head on a stick a bit counterintuitive. My suspicion is that he will not go quietly.
There’s no doubt Rotherham had a problem, but it also seems to have put more effort than some to at least identifying it. I can’t find out much about the investigating team except that they are Scottish. I wonder what the problem looks like north of the border. A bit of context would be useful.
I notice the BBC are now using the highly speculative 1400 figure as gospel truth.
Finally I really dislike the smack down one social worker got for pointing out that in terms of prevalence neglect is a greater problem than grooming. I should think the two are inextricably linked, in any event.

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 9:14 am

These events the report is dealing with are contigous in time with the earlier reports about Rochdale and Oxford, so there’s not much new about the syatem of “care” revealed. I only just noticed that the Rotherham abuse [apparently] started the same year as Labour took power – 1997. Presumably there were no famous dead 70’s celebs from Rotherham who could have been offered up to the media sacrificial altar as Savile & Smith were, back when Rochdale and Oxford should have been en vogue in the press.

Gil August 28, 2014 at 11:03 am: Perhaps scurrying after a few white VIPs helps to draw the eye away from thumb-twiddling over groups of non-white non-VIPs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNczh8C1mcM

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Stewart Cowan August 28, 2014 at 4:48 am

“5,991 girls under the age of 16 became pregnant in 2011 – that is just the figure for those who didn’t take the morning after pill, and didn’t use contraception…”

Modern “sex education” has been devised by government panels of ‘experts’ composed of (last time I checked) right-on social workers and directors of contraception and abortion ‘providers’. The advice they are giving the government ensures these ‘charities’ have a growing stream of clients.

As for the ‘morning after pill’: that involves murdering a newly created life.

Who are really to blame, other than the perpetrators of these heinous crimes? The social engineers using Fabian and Frankfurt School techniques to promote sex, increase family dysfunction, redefine morality and use mass immigration to destroy national identity and create tension as part of their efforts to gain total socialist control.

They have infiltrated every institution to such an extent that situations like this have become possible. This particular case wouldn’t have happened but for mass immigration, mass breakdown of family life, loss of morals in public institutions and so on.

All of it supported by the mainstream political parties, also heavily infiltrated, of course.

MTG August 28, 2014 at 9:24 am

A rather sloppy whitewash dressing, Anna. A finger in this fish pie somewhere?

JGA August 28, 2014 at 10:43 am

With respect Anna, with respect to your mention of girls “under the age of eighteen” someone reading your post who had not themselves read the report, may be led to assume these girls had mostly already reached the age of consent.

The report gives specific, clear examples showing that these girls were 11, 12, 13, 14 years old when their abuse by these men first started.

theyfearthehare August 28, 2014 at 11:50 am

The key line of the report for me was

“the post of Sexual Exploitation Co-ordinator was created (though unclear whether it was ever filled)”

Thats so typical of every single public sector organisation that Ive ever consulted for. No doubt dozens of people spent months in meetings, pre meeting, and pre-pre meetings, justifying the need for the role, identifying the attributes required to fill the role, writing job descriptions etc etc…. then doing absolutely bugger all. What a wasted opportunity, would have suited MWT down to a T

Years later, everyone has selective memories, noone can remember sweet FA, the paperworks been lost etc.

And yet, here we all are arguing about a document produced by a public sector organisation, as if its contents where actually factual….

Are south yorkshire police institutionally corrupt, and unfit for purpose.. well of course they are, same as practically every other police force. Are rotherham social services unfit for purpose.. well of course they are, FFS even Ofsted (an organisation comprised of exactly the same types of people with the same flaws, and itself unfit for purpose) had admitted that at times standards fell short and lessons needed to be learned yada yada yada. Will men take advantage of women for sex ? Why the hell are we even discussing this nonsense ?

Until people start to take some sort of collective responsibility for sorting out these issues rather than relying on increasingly disfunctional nanny state, its going to get worse. How bad does it need to get before people start to wake up and smell the coffee ?

Anna Raccoon August 28, 2014 at 12:00 pm

+ 1

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 12:26 pm: +2

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Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 12:37 pm

John Reid started the political fashion of avoiding the fact that he was an incompetent ass by simply saying that the department he was supposed to be managing was “unfit for purpose”, rather than do anything sensible about it. It then became a very popular expression. It’s all very 1970’s Monty Python I suppose. Society is to blame. Just as full of meaning.
http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Google-trends-fit-for-purpose-news-graph-countries-Oct.-2010.jpg

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 12:43 pm

“Collective responsibility” is exactly what Shaun Wright says he is taking, which means he feels no need to take “personal responsibility” for anything at all.

Great, isn’t it?

When everyone is responsible, no one is responsible.

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 12:59 pm

If the parts of the Report referring to the frustrated fathers, denied the right to protect their “child” are true, then how is it justified that the “child” was outside of the care of a responsible parent as he seems to have been. Much of the system must be hopelessly Utopian in the rules and dispiritingly Utilitarian in the reality. The Police got drawn into being “Social Workers” as a result of the Satanic Scandal I seem to recall. It seems that rather than successfuly knocking some rationality into the Social Work Diva’s, the cops have simply succumbed to the their hypnotic mantra-like behaviours.

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 1:12 pm

Well, in some cases the child was handed over to care services because the parents were at their wits’ end and having failed to control the child, short of locking them up in a basement, believed social services would do a better job.

What is more, when the same parents made detailed complaints about what on the face of it were very serious criminal offences to the police, they got nowhere. Parents who tracked their offspring down to dens of iniquity found that either they or the child was arrested.

The police were not acting as social workers here. Social workers don’t have the power of arrest. In fact, they weren’t even acting like police, or certainly not the kind of police we want. I don’t expect this to interest people, though. For some reason, it just doesn’t.

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 1:36 pm

I cannot see how an adult cannot control a child. I can see how they might struggle to control a post-pubescent young adult however. So far as the police are concerned, one can only assume they have been so eviscerated of purpose by continual vituperation that they are no longer even capable of racially harrassing the immigrant communities, notwithstanding that they regularly shoot one or two of them with depressing regularity. Something about all this doesn’t make commonsense. I suspect it is in part because reports insist on speaking about “children” in these cases, yet 10 year-olds such as the Bulger killers are tried as adults and demonised accordingly. There is a terrible schizophrenic quality about the UK and it’s Establishment doings.

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 2:06 pm

Well, seemingly they can’t, Moor. But I think this is something of a red herring, anyway. in Northern ireland, we have had long-standing problems with drugs gangs targeting vulnerable youngsters and inducting them into organised prostitution rings. The perpetrators and the victims were from the same ethnic and religious background. In many cases, it turned out that the police were using the same gangs as low-level informants, and there fore did not look too closely at their activities.

I don’t for one moment believe that the attitude of the police in Rotherham was because they had been eviscerated by continual vituperation. there is a good deal more to it than that. Remember this is the same force which falsified statements in official reports on Hillsborough to pin the blame on Liverpool supporters. Here’s a good quote from the author of “The Biggest Gang in Britain” – a memoir of Manchester Police in the 1960s regarding the matter.

Hayes, of Poynton, Cheshire, said: “The police concerned attempted to blame ‘rogue elements’ for this callous deceit.

“I knew this was another pathetic lie because I know how the police work.

“The Hillsborough Conspiracy has shocked the establishment, the media and the general public alike.

“Whether it has shocked ex-police officers of the 60s, 70s and 80s is very doubtful.”

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 2:31 pm

@Hillsborough
Oh for Pete’s sake, that was a couple of generations ago. You might just as well say this is the force that imposed Maggies’ will on the miners. These old things are a complete red herring except in the sense that the new-bloods will have been trained to never repeat these sins because the ‘powers-that-be’ declared them wicked. The cops were fully blamed for Hillsborough at the time anyway. What people seem to want is “someone to be sacked”. It’s the footie manager mentality, as if changing the England Coach will make the England team any less shit.

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 2:42 pm

Moor, you need to read the report in detail and ask yourself why the police acted as they have been alleged to do, including the incident mentioned in section 10.11. I don’t think it was due to an exaggerated sense of racial sensitivity. They certainly showed very little sensitivity to the complainants, or their families.

I am under no illusions that the police are prevented from investigating and prosecuting organised crime simply because the offenders are of a particular ethnic or religious background.

Personally, I have no interest in who is “sacked” if they are merely a sacrificial victim, enabling business as usual to be carried on by their successors.

Moor Larkin August 29, 2014 at 10:13 am: Caught a Radio Funf interview with a “Rotherham victim” this morning. She told of how she hung around shops with a mate. In due course a bloke invites them back to his gaff. How old are you? 16. Get in. Cue nice night out with lots of his friends. As they leave he strokes her cheek – the first suggestion of any intimacy. You’re not 16 are you. 15…. Okay – 14. He takes her home having made another date. Sexual relations ensue. He regularly buys her her favourite grub – a cheese sandwich and a bottle of Lucozade. She says she would have preferred a beef sandwich but he couldn’t allow beef (this bit puzzled me). And so it went on. On at least one occasion the police burst into his flat and she was half-naked, hiding under the bed, but the police told her to come out. There was no suggestion the cops breaking in had anyhitng to do with her – the bloke was a Paki so doubtless a victim of police attention. This apparently was one of the many many occasions that the police failed to “arrest him”…. I got fed up with listening; maybe it got juicier as she got older.

Sorry EyesWideShut but, regardless of what the earnestly written Report is saying, this victim has all the hallmarks of an errant, out of control and willful young woman who is now under the influence of a different train of thought in her adulthood. That the man knowingly engaged in consensual sex with an underage is indisputable but “racketeering”? Not the slightest suggestion of it to my mind; just low morals and high-mindedness come into theoretical collision a decade later. I guess this makes me even more a paedo-denier than before, but I think I’ll continue to sleep at night with a clear conscience. Maybe in a gaol cell in due course for my Thought Crime, but hey, life is a bitch and then we all die anyway.

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Mudplugger August 28, 2014 at 2:07 pm

It is a standard strategy of all public bodies (and some private ones too) when faced with anything hard and difficult, to form a committee or task-force, ideally one which can be labelled ‘multi-agency’. This is nothing whatsoever to do with solving the problem, but all about ensuring that any eventual accountability cannot be pinned to any individual person or unit or management chain – it’s CYA (Cover Your Arse) pure and simple, nothing more, nothing less.
This is evidenced by the outrageous behaviour of Shaun Wright, shamelessly ducking and diving behind ‘collective responisbility’ to maintain his position (and pension) – at least the Labour Party soon acknowledged that he is a disgrace to their honourable history, but that slippery toad never will.
Until personal accountability forms part of every individual’s job description this farce will continue, so nothing will be solved, no-one will be fired, and the problems will just get worse.

Cascadian August 28, 2014 at 6:53 pm: ” at least the Labour Party soon acknowledged that he is a disgrace to their honourable history”……..add a snort of derision here.

Rotherham has been a liebour rotten borough for generations, there is nothing honourable in what they have achieved.

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Cascadian August 28, 2014 at 8:41 pm

“Until people start to take some sort of collective responsibility for sorting out these issues rather than relying on increasingly disfunctional nanny state, “……like NOT voting for liebour? That seems to be underway judging by the recent MEP elections in the area, finally the silent majority seem to be rousing themselves. Which is the proper but long-term way to fix the problem.

A little bit of targetted vigilante justice would not be amiss either, the foul police should be made very aware that they have lost the public’s trust.

Cascadian August 28, 2014 at 8:42 pm: Sorry posted in the wrong place-ignore.

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Cascadian August 28, 2014 at 8:43 pm

A little bit of targetted vigilante justice would not be amiss either, the foul police should be made very aware that they have lost the public’s trust.

Cascadian August 28, 2014 at 8:46 pm: Sigh, this post is in reply to theyfearthehare.

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EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 11:56 am

Section 10.ii of the report talks about a complainant who decided to go to the police, without telling anyone. Whilst she was there she received a text from her abuser, threatening her sister. She left the police station before she could give evidence, saying “you can’t protect me”.

The report speculates that, since she hadn’t told anyone she was going to the police, somebody in the police force tipped the gang off.

It seems we are going to be told that the police did nothing because they were scared of being labelled racist. I fthis particular allegation is true, I think there is a bit more to Rotherham than the tyrannny of political correctness. Anyone having flashbacks to the glory days of the Met in the 1960s?

This is looking more and more like organised racketeering.

Mansys August 28, 2014 at 12:43 pm

Good post.

Opus August 28, 2014 at 12:44 pm

Is there not something priceless that in the week when the government is proposing bringing in law (under the best possible motives) to imprison men for exercising some form of control at home (verbal or physical bullying) it transpires that in Rotherham men who in despair have been forced to take the law into their own hands (to protect their daughters from Rape, Pregnancy and Prostitution) have for their pains been arrested by the police who appear to have been operating in favour of an aristocracy of the skin a Droit de Seigneur at a level undreamed of even in France before their revolution.

The death of monogamous marriage and the rise of social services (in its place – largely the same people) has been ignited with mass immigration to produce this mess.

Chris August 28, 2014 at 2:55 pm

I’ve just got my crystal ball out – and do you know what, it’s showing a new ‘witch hunt’.
A witch hunt involving predominantly Turkish & Asian men who have takeaways and have in the past shagged white sluts. I foresee lazy policeforces reacting to this Rotherham scandal by chucking them in ‘white Caucasian males’ into the ‘Persecution Pot’ marked ‘sitting ducks’. Every kebab shop & curry house in the North to be taken apart, not for ‘trafficking’ but just for being Young “innits” who took what was offered to them on a plate. It won’t matter that they’re not ‘Pakistani’ or even pimps, but that they work in takeaways and are practicing heterosexuals.

Moor Larkin August 28, 2014 at 2:58 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2483351/Cherlene-Downes-missing-person-case-reopened-police.html
This kebab shop was at the heart of Charlene’s case. Its then owner was falsely accused of killing her and chopping her up. He and another man were paid compensation after the case against them collapsed.

Chris August 28, 2014 at 3:17 pm

How many ‘misunderstood’ young trollops over the past 20 years will have been serviced at the local takeaway as they learnt valuable life skills? I’m thinking of pretty respectable establishments – I wouldn’t begin to imagine what went down on the kebab houses of ‘Shameless’ style estates. The kind of antics they used to depict on Shameless (in the more enlightened times of the pre-witch hunt 00’s) at least….

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 9:28 pm: The case against them was based on recordings, which were not properly transcribed and contained no reference at all to “mincing”, “disposing of the bones” etc, – all of which the police introduced as evidence. Give me a P, give me an E, give me an R, give me J, give me a U, give me an R, give me a Y. What does that spell?

In the 2008 case, Mr Bromley-Davenport said of his client:

“Mr Raveshi’s defence team have uncovered, within the Blackpool Police Service, an astonishing catalogue of incompetence, failures to disclose, manipulation and lies, some of which were uttered on oath during the trial last year. If the jury at that trial had swallowed the lies and been duped by the manipulation, a grave miscarriage of justice would have occurred and Mr Raveshi would now be serving a very long prison sentence for offences he did not commit. For nearly three and a half years the Blackpool Police have been hellbent on the ruthless pursuit of someone, who has steadfastly maintained his innocence throughout.”

DS Jan Beasant was in charge of the recordings. She was found guilty of two counts of misconduct and forced to resign.

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stephen lewis August 28, 2014 at 9:45 pm

I’ll repeat my previous post .. my 19 year old daughter is no slut …. and yet I see significant parallels between the report and my experience that I had no inkling the potential seriousness that we , as a family, may have escaped.

Younger pakistani boy befriending my daughter at the age of approx 15. As a non racist I felt no issues with this.
Then after a time she became frightened of going to Luton town centre, she had already been stopped (persuaded) that trips to a local park in the midst of the Pakistani community late at night was not a good thing to do. She was being invited by some other girlfriends to attend the park
2 other Pakistani lads knocked on my door and she did not want to answer it, I did answer and they were very arrogant boys who wanted her to go to the town centre.
It was about this time that she started wetting the bed every night. She was now receiving threatening texts (which I poo -pooed). We took her to the Doctors to have the bed wetting checked (they also checked her for drug use).
Then my car was vandalised, then obscene images and writing on our garden fence. These were cleaned and repaired
Then I saw someone vandalising my car and gave chase and called the police… the police with my help caught the offenders .. one was the boy who was sending threatening texts. He had to cough up £30 in compensation .. on the spot and I had a man-police-man conversation.

He disappeared for a while and then was spotted again .. and my car was vandalised and my fence had the obscene images and writing on it again.

Hopefully 3 years later we are through this .. she now goes to Luton town centre again.

I consider myself and my family very lucky… I truly hope (perhaps as a consequence of not being a low social wealth family .. orher not being in care) that we avoided some of the claims that are being made in Rotherham.

My neighbour is married to a terrific pakistani girl, she was kidnapped and sent to Pakistan at the age of 14 because she was unwilling to comply. When she hitched to the white guy, Pakistani brothers were very menacing and both were frightened, she is now the biggest money earner and they like to be friends with her now… surprise.

Not all Pakistani.. or non Pakistani men are the same.. but there is definitely a culture and philosophy of females being second rate and white females 5th rate but worth a go.

If you have never lived near this at the right social level you will not have seen the exposure. I now have and my second daughter will be monitored and protected a lot more closely .. assuming we still continue to live in Luton.

Chris August 29, 2014 at 10:44 am

Without a doubt this scandal is founded in hard facts – there’s no doubt at all that the “Pakistani Community” have ghettoised areas of the UK such as Luton, Dewsbury & Bradford and behave as you describe. An old friend of mine was a native of Bradford and despite being an ‘old school’ inclusive socialist type bemoaned the fact that *they* had taken over and destroyed Bradford, often bullying the indigenous population out as they went.

I just know though that the ‘Horsemen of the Apocalypse’ are already hijacking this for their own agenda (women = ‘victims’, men = ‘predators’), and instead of tackling the misogynic and racist culture within the Pakistani community we will see an all-out ‘allegations amnesty’ directed at anyone with a takeaway – the readership of The Sun won’t know a ‘Paki’ from a Hindu or a Turk, and neither they nor the police will care either way.
I also anticipate ‘race riots’ for those water cannons as the Bill Maloney’s of the country finally find they can align their inherent criminality and paedohysteria with their ‘pie & mash’ racism they’ve had to keep hidden so long, and direct it in an ‘approved’ direction.

Moor Larkin August 29, 2014 at 10:53 am: They hate the queers more than the darkies if you ask me

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Anna Raccoon August 29, 2014 at 11:41 am: “I also anticipate ‘race riots’ or those water cannons as the Bill Maloney’s of the country finally find they can align their inherent criminality and paedohysteria with their ‘pie & mash’ racism they’ve had to keep hidden so long, and direct it in an ‘approved’ direction.”
Precisely Chris – so racist has this discussion become that I now find myself being accused of being a ‘wishy-washy liberal’ because I don’t want people to overlook all the other child abuse that occurs in this country. I’m trying to get my head round that one – calling for more prosecutions makes you a wishy-washy liberal….I expected to be castigated for being ‘anti-Libertarian’ but this takes some thinking about.

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oi you August 28, 2014 at 3:58 pm

Some very interesting and informed comments here. Restores my belief in humanity somewhat. Unlike that report.

MTG August 28, 2014 at 4:29 pm

There can be no whitewash at the Wright House.

EyesWideShut August 28, 2014 at 8:17 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/28/south-yorkshire-police-hmic-report-rotherham

HMIC none too impressed with South Yorks Police.

This audit is quite separate from the Jays Report, though obviously there is a degree of overlap, shall we say.

The Cowboy Online August 29, 2014 at 10:04 am

Anna, my problem with your rant is that you, like so many of the so-called liberal persuasion, refuse to see the ethnic and religious elements of what’s happened in Rotherham, instead hiding behind a veil of political correctness and hurling accusations of racism at those who, correctly in my opinion, see that this is the deliberate targeting by one culture, towards those of another culture they regard as inferior.

Anna Raccoon August 29, 2014 at 10:21 am

Yes, yes, yes dear. Quite agree. One culture targeting another – don’t have a problem with that view – and Ms Raccoon is the least politically correct person you are likely to meet.
My problem with the current coverage both main stream media and commentators is that everybody is having such a fine time letting their inner racist out to play and demanding that opponents heads roll that they are completely overlooking the fact that girls are being groomed and abused in similar fashion right across the country – but they are such nice young men!
If we assume, which is farcical and they aren’t, that every one of those Rotherham girls is included in the 6,000 underage pregnancies I quoted – that still leaves 4,500 girls who have been groomed and abused across the country – and only the ones that got pregnant as a result. Where is the outcry about them? Who is demanding heads roll in council offices? No one is even mentioning them – they don’t exist as a ‘story’.
My point is simply that we shouldn’t overlook the fact that this story is hot news because the men were Pakistani and that is useful to a lot of people who couldn’t give a fig about child protection.

Moor Larkin August 29, 2014 at 11:32 am

Isn’t it great being a wishy-washy liberal Madame? I never thought I’d be a whinging hand-wringing apologist for criminals either, but the present is often a foreign country I am finding.

stephen lewis August 29, 2014 at 11:32 am

Not sure that’s wholly fair Anna… many unwanted, too young pregnancies are from boys and girls of a similar age and background. After having sex for the 1st time with my (to be ) wife, her periods went awry and we thought she was pregnant.. at 15 (nearly 2 months away 16) and I was just over 17.

It’s hot news because of the significant violence shown towards these girls from 11 onwards by a specific racial group of men against a specific racial group of girls. It’s hot news because they have also been using boys of eg 13 to befriend these girls and then introducing them to a steadily aging group of men. They have been preying on a specific group perhaps because of a very protective culture towards their own females at a younger age.

Ever wondered why muslim men prefer segregated schools (male/female) and why they have small buses to ferry girls to and from school, they know there are some callous individuals within their own group, they know their own weaknesses. White families hwoever have become accustomed to trusting their neighbours and casually allow boys like the one I mentioned above because the judge people by their own values.

I suspect in this case you’re judging these callous Pakistani men and boys by your own values ( and mine by the way). However it is only when you come very close to being on the wrong end.. and now I find I was a victim of racial aggravation legislation in a direct way and possibly my daughter (and family as a consequence) came very close to another close call that is centred around racial politics.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t believe that child abuse cannot occur in other sections of the community but I think it highly unlikely that a group of white men and boys (let’s not forget the very young boys being used by these gangs because they’re growing up with a similar attitude) would focus on pakistani or black girls.

I once heard a Hindu customer talking about muslims in the most racist way during a process of recruitment for his company and I was astounded by his aggression… whilst he was wrong to commit all muslims to those atrocities… I think he may have been right for a minority of muslim men brought up on the subjugation of female form and the inherent importance of the male of the muslim community.

It’s interesting that I have a complete faith in your research regarding Dunsfold and JS yet find myself disagreeing quietly (hopefully in a considered manner) regarding this situation. By coincidence I come from Rotherham and now live in Luton.

I don’t know where these girls come from but I suggest that I would not be far wrong in saying they come from Attercliffe, Eastwood and perhaps Dalton Magna. All these areas are significantly deprived a as consequence of the ending of steel production.

I digress

I recently had cause to drive through Dalton and Thrybergh … home to Parkgate steel workers for several decades and noticed how in the early afternoon how many young men were roaming the street seemingly aimlessly. These men would have had fathers who would normally have acquired them jobs at Parkgate steel works but since the 90’s the jobs for men have dwindled and now there are call centres. However these boys were groomed by fathers and the education system for “mans work”, they don’t have communication skills or the desire to carry coffee cups around or work in the multitude of retail parks that have sprung up. Warehouses don’t have anywhere near the volume of men that a steelworks or a pit had within them.

Luton, ironically has similar issues, Renault trucks, Vauxhall Motors, Bedford trucks, whitbread, Electrolux, SKF bearings … all gone or shadows of their former selves.

Both have burgeoning Pakistani populations of young men with not a lot to do, but with Range Rovers parked outside low social housing, they rent Bentleys and Lamborghinis for weddings… I don’t think you have to be a scientist to see a distinct possibility that this is being paid for by drugs.

Drugs they are using to ensnare their female victims.

Ho Hum August 29, 2014 at 12:19 pm

So what’s your bottom line?

Do you, or do you not, believe that the same, or somewhat similar, practices are prevalent in other racial or cultural groups, be they found amongst the indigent population or those who have immigrated over the last 50 to 60 years or so?

And if you think that they are, what’s still wrong with the point made in the original article?

stephen lewis August 29, 2014 at 12:33 pm

I’m not sure ho hum .. as I ‘m not sure what has or hasn’t been said anymore.

I seem to recall having an issue with the idea that the low social status girls parents were at fault, but I too felt it was safe enough for my daughter to go to town at 15 and knock about with boys of a similar or younger age. I’d say that now I’d be very wary of the youngest girl befriending pakistani boys .. as a consequence of my experience. I didn’t have a problem with her having sexual experiences at 15 though as a father I’d prefer her not to.

Living in Luton, Bradford, Rotherham, Leicester, Rochdale et al I would now be very vigilant about muslim boys taking an interest in my girls because of my experience .. but not so with white boys .. is that racist .. perhaps .. but experience is something we should learn by.

Dan November 11, 2014 at 9:51 pm: Racist? No stats bear it out. If you explain the danger in frank terms and she screws up it’s her problem at that point .

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The Cowboy Online August 29, 2014 at 12:06 pm

“They picked children up from schools and care homes and trafficked them across northern cities for other men to join in the fun. They doused a 15-year-old in petrol and threatened to set her alight should she dare to report them. They menaced entire families and made young girls watch as they raped other children.”

Not all Child Protection issues are equal, perhaps that’s why the Rotherham situation has garnered so much outrage, that and the suspicion that – due to political correctness and a two-tier legal systems – what’s happened in Rotherham is also likely to be happening elsewhere in the country where towns have been so ‘vibrantly enhanced’.

(And if you could delete the duplicate of this, clicked reply in the wrong place. Thanks.)

Moor Larkin August 29, 2014 at 12:01 pm

@ Range Rovers parked outside low social housing, they rent Bentleys and Lamborghinis for weddings… I don’t think you have to be a scientist to see a distinct possibility that this is being paid for by drugs. @
I always put that down to the wealth accrued by their hard-working parents in the corner shops and local restaurants, which they either had inherited or been granted. A friend of my daughter spent some time in the company of such a heir to the fortune. She eventually left him, but he let her keep the convertible.

stephen lewis August 29, 2014 at 12:22 pm

Moor .. I’m happy to accept the hard working .. and your point is taken with sincerity on my part. I happen to work (for free) for a couple of friends in Bury Park, they rent their adjoining unit to a Pakistani mechanic and his 2 sons… even they think what I’m thinking. Live and wrk in it and the scales fall from your eyes.
As I said earlier you tend to judge by your own standards until you live and breathe somewhere that has differing standards. I tend to judge individuals by their actions towards me personally… rather than their creed or colour … as bizarre as that might seem bearing in mind my words used on this blog.

For example it was a Pakistani woman who accused me of calling her an f..ing P. bitch … but it was also a woman from Asian descent (not so sure if she was Pakistani .. perhaps not who actually saved me by appearing in court and denouncing the other womans accusations as she witnessed the event. Incidentally the police didn’t locate her despite her giving a statement to the school headmaster and standing with another woman whom the police did take a statement from.

If I’d turned up in Rawmarsh with a new Range Rover whilst living on the council estate .. there would have been similar discussions because surely I could buy a house in a better part of town.. the drivers of such vehicles are well known by the informed about their activities. Though many are perfectly sound owners of shops and hard working .. when the driver is 19 or doesn’t seem to be able to see over the steering wheel or stops in strange places with another car alongside – you know what they’re up to.

This isn’t a Pakistani only method of operation, I was merely indicating that the drugs were a strong possibility of being tools to ensnare their female victims of low social status. Granted in the context of a typewritten message – it may have appeared so.

Moor Larkin August 29, 2014 at 12:50 pm

Jimmy Savile famously parked his white Rolls Royce outside his mother’s terraced house in the 1960’s. I wonder what the neighbours said back then…

Interesting to hear your experience of a false accusation. It does seem that the police nowadays are merely agents for your prosecution by the Crown. Your legal defence is very much your own problem. That seems especially to be the case when the crime is “political” (race/sex/hot issue in the media). Jim Davidson’s recent book is a perfect exemplar of all that is wrong with the relationship that has developed via ACPO and CPS getting together to ‘decide’ Policy. He was lucky enough to be able to afford the £800k or so he reckons it took.

Total respect for working with your daughter and good thoughts for you both. One question your anecdote begs though is, do you think she was importuned via drugs? Or was it simply an attempted seduction by what she deemed as exotic and exciting at the time. The girlfriend of my own daughter certainly knew of drugs but there never seemed any suggestion she was being controlled by them, or even took them herself. British youth is infested by drug-taking at every level from alcohol to plant fertiliser these days. They seem to “love it”. So drugs in these situations just seem top me to be part of US, the British – as we have freely made ourselves.

stephen lewis August 29, 2014 at 1:35 pm: JS was a famous figure by then Moor .. but I am smiling at the thought all the same.

When she started bed wetting every single night we took her to the doctors and they checked for any drug abuse and she was clear. Mys suspicion is that because we are in fact a socially OK family and we have reasonable wealth her brain was working on the negativity of drugs and she “had something to lose”. Thus she didn’t fall prey (assuming there was anything in my fears), however she was definitely subject to facebook aggressive abuse and threats and her phone/sim card had to be changed 3 times and I do now believe that she was in a state of fear about these boys.

Another parallel is that the youngest boy that befriended her gave her a mobile and seemed particularly annoyed that he couldn’t get it back off her .. I am not aware of why. Perhaps she sold it for a bit of cash. This tallies with the idea that they gave gifts to lure the kids in and eventually, I suspect drugs are introduced whether surreptitiously or by consent and then the girls are trapped.

It’s a hypothesis but I have previously spent 20 years of my life studying how to get the right people in the right jobs and was successful at keeping those people with the jobs and companies unlike many of my competitors who made a placement simply for the cash.

I could be wrong but I think I have a handle on this situation now.

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The Cowboy Online August 29, 2014 at 12:05 pm

jemima August 29, 2014 at 12:11 pm

http://sometimesitsjustacigar.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-culture-of-abuse-and-rotherham/

Your post reminded me of this by my fellow blogger at cigar, who recognized the culture, or sub culture that says its OK to abuse children, and has nothing to do with race or religion

The Cowboy Online August 29, 2014 at 3:04 pm: “recognized the culture, or sub culture that says its OK to abuse children, and has nothing to do with race or religion”, that’s in their opinion and I do wonder if some people so desperately look for the mouse while ignoring the elephant stood large in the room. I live a 20 minute drive from Luton, and have a job that takes me all over the country, and I can tell you – from personal experience, not what I’ve read in the papers – that in those areas where Muslims make up a large part of the ‘community’ they openly regard me, as a white male, with hostility and as someone inferior to them. It’s in their religion as well, to regard the infidel and kuffar as being inferior to Muslims, so how the hell can people argue that these attitudes aren’t relevant?

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Unobservant Person August 29, 2014 at 8:26 pm

When did the Age of Consent suddenly become 18? I didn’t see it in the papers or on the TV

Reimer August 30, 2014 at 2:12 pm

And until all unsolved murders are solved nobody has any right to charge anyone with murder or complicity…

Great solipsistic contrarian bollocks.

Jonathan Mason August 30, 2014 at 6:20 pm

I pretty much agree with what Anna says here. I once worked in Florida ina secure residential facility for juvenile delinquent girls, most of them with drug problems, some with mental illnesses. Many of their parents were themselves quite familiar with the justice system from the inside. Most of these girls had prostituted themselves for drugs, though I have no idea who their, often very numerous, sexual partners were, nor was that our concern. However I never heard anyone suggest that they were paedophiles or that the girls were victims of paedophilia, though some of them might have been.

As far as sex is concerned, once the genie is out of the bottle, it is out. Nearly all of our girls, with only one exception, it was reported to me, engaged in sexual activities with other girls, like mutual masturbation, even thought there was not a Pakistani in sight. When they reached the age of 18, they were automatically discharged home and there is little doubt that many continued to use drugs and prostitute after they left our care, so one could say that the program didn’t do much good, except:

1. They had to go to school while they were there. Once I sat in an English lesson in which the set text was Hamlet–a gory melodrama setting a very poor example of adult behavior in every way.
2. They got health care and health education including gynaecological care that many of them needed.
3. They got substance abuse counseling
4. By being locked up they did not have access to drugs or alcohol or opportunities to sell sex for drugs, so to that extent numerous legal offenses involving underage girls were prevented.

This seems to be what a lot of people are asking for in England today, even if they don’t know they are–lock ’em up until they are 18 and thus pre-empt all kinds of lawbreaking on their part and the part of others.

Moor Larkin September 2, 2014 at 12:54 pm: @ Nearly all of our girls, with only one exception, it was reported to me, engaged in sexual activities with other girls, like mutual masturbation, even thought there was not a Pakistani in sight. @
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJmg-879j5o

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sassy August 31, 2014 at 10:19 am

I was sexually abused by a dear old (to me, then) European gentleman for 3 or 4 years from the time I was 10, until my family moved to another state. He was an absolute sweetie and I don’t believe I have suffered because of it.
No actual penetration was involved and he gave me money, which I liked.
He gave me numerous orgasms and I obviously enjoyed it as I kept going back for more. I have led a quite impressive sexual life for the 50 or so years since then, which continues to this day with my latest lover.
I’m not saying it is the ideal start to a young girl’s sexual life but it simply didn’t hurt me.
I was finally raped at the age of 16 and I’m still cross about that – I wasn’t ready!

Reimer August 31, 2014 at 1:16 pm: Sounds like Robert the Rapist should have been a little more patient and at least let you finish your takeaway.

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Le Gin August 31, 2014 at 1:25 pm

So do you think that rounding up a few of the perps, erecting gallows in the Town Square and hanging them is counter-productive?

Jonathan Mason August 31, 2014 at 2:42 pm

Last night I read the Jay Report, or at least enough of it to get the general gist of it.

I was not very impressed and thought it was a sloppy piece of work. For example the methodology for reaching a “conservative” total of 1400 girls was not explained in detail, and in any case they did not have the names of 1400 girls, it was just guess based on a perusal of about 70 case files.

The report relates that one girl who was giving evidence to the report received a text message from malefactors saying that they were holding her sister and would do her harm if she continued to give evidence. The girl gave no further evidence. It is not made clear that the police were called to investigate this outrageous interference in a judicial process, whether the malefactors were arrested, or what the outcome was, nor have I seen this reported upon.

It is almost as if the culture of ignoring crimes was perpetuated by the inquiry.

Engineer September 1, 2014 at 12:13 am

Johnathon – the girl who received the text message was making her complaint to the police at the time. Because of the threat, and the reaction of the officers concerned, she left the police station saying, “You can’t protect me.” That was what she related to the enquiry, several years later.

The inquiry isn’t ignoring the crimes. It’s the first time some of these crimes have been taken seriously by anybody in any form of authority. That’s what’s so shocking.

Jonathan Mason September 1, 2014 at 3:59 am: OK, thanks for correcting me on that. Here’s what the report says (cut and pasted):

One child who was being prepared to give evidence received a text saying the perpetrator had her younger sister and the choice of what happened next was up to her. She withdrew her statements.

I was under the impresssion that she was to give evidence to the inquiry, but if she was already at a police station, then threatening a witness in a police station would be even more serious offense. Of course with no statute of limitations, there could still be a conviction of the offender(s) on this or other charges, but if the police had impounded her phone at the time and obtained phone company records, the evidence would have been that much stronger. However I can also see why they did not.

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Jonathan Mason August 31, 2014 at 9:59 pm

Readers of The Guardian will be interested to know that there was an Observer editorial today about Rotherham that led to some interesting below-the-line discussion that was soon shut down with only 200 comments. Recently Guardian readers have been outraged at the tendency of The Guardian to suppress comments about alleged Pakistani child rape gangs and some have practically accused The Guardian of being part of the same mindset as the social workers and police who have been roundly condemned for failing to act on complaints, with columnists preferring to pontificate rather than actually do any reporting on the ground.

My understanding from a couple of comments is that the police did not pursue the matter mentioned in the post above as the girl did not wish them to do so. This just seems like a complete perpetuation of the culture of ignoring serious crimes, while devoting resources to junkets to Cliff-bloody-Richard’s home in leafy Surrey or Berks to see if any evidence of him buggering a lad in Sheffield in 1985 happened to be lying around. Damn them all!

Jonathan Mason August 31, 2014 at 10:11 pm

Even more sinister goings-on. There was an article posted yesterday about the new rape consent law for students in California state colleges and universities with some decent discussion going on below the line. Today the whole below the line discussion has disappeared without comment. Can’t be a legal issue as it is all about a US law.

Gil September 2, 2014 at 10:45 am

BBC Inside Out – the hidden scandal of sexual grooming of young Sikh girls by Muslim men
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hXTM7ehvtk

Gil September 8, 2014 at 1:22 am

Two BBC Panorama programmes, same interviewee. In the first, she is the mother of a teenage girl murdered by a teenage Asian boyfriend in an “honour” killing, in the second the mother of two daughters sexually exploited by Asian males.

March 2012 “Britains Crimes of Honour” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnVjfbvsyQ
17:15 “here in Rotherham, one love story across the racial divide has had a tragic ending”

September 2014: “Stolen Childhoods: The Grooming Scandal” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zhMKTKuDNI
22:37 “without prosecutions, new abusers were able to claim new victims, as one mother probably knows better than anyone”

Could the failure to deal with the abuse of white girls be linked to a failure to deal with “honour”-based violence/domestic violence in Asian households? An Asian woman from a domestic abuse service in the September programme says (22:26) “those men that perpetrated against white young girls, they will have been abusing internally within their own communities”. But the Rotherham report mentions “honour” only twice, does not indicate that there is any overlap between honour-based violence and the exploitation of white girls, and even suggests that the two are regarded as separate in the minds of the authorities: “13.6 The present Chief Executive … also became aware of the issue at the time of the murder of Child S, when the senior investigating police involved were adamant that it was not linked to CSE, but was an honour killing. That was the message that the Council Leader followed.” All the references in the report to “domestic violence” are made in the context of the home circumstances of the victims, except for one, which suggests that domestic violence in Asian households might not have been taken as seriously as if it had occurred in white households: “11.8 … several of those [senior officers] involved in the operational management of services reported some attempts to pressurise them into changing their approach to some issues. This mainly affected the support given to Pakistani-heritage women fleeing domestic violence, where a small number of councillors had demanded that social workers reveal the whereabouts of these women or effect reconciliation rather than supporting the women to make up their own minds. This mainly affected the support given to Pakistani-heritage women fleeing domestic violence, where a small number of councillors had demanded that social workers reveal the whereabouts of these women or effect reconciliation rather than supporting the women to make up their own minds.”

Perhaps the white girls were experiencing the knock-on effects of abuse within the Asian communities and of how that was handled by the authorities.

Gil September 13, 2014 at 1:01 am

Interview with Samantha Morton. http://www.theguardian.com/society/video/2014/sep/12/samantha-morton-sexually-abused-child-care-homes-video-interview
She echoes some of what an ex police officer said today on the World at One. http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/wato

Dan November 11, 2014 at 9:44 pm

Who will stand up for you?

What a stupid dope.

The gangs are the forward edge of a conquest.

Giles May 26, 2015 at 12:20 am

I can’t believe you link to the Jay report and then make a series of assertions that you could know to be false had you read it. The sample of cases (which she says we’re chosen to be representive) makes abundantly clear the vast majority of cases were of brutal gang rape, not consensual sex. Did the girls go to the police? Yes in droves, as Andrew Norfolk has shown. The police destroyed evidence, arrested victims and parents trying to free them and two senior police officers threatened to hand over a Home Office researcher to the rape gangs for trying to expose this. That’s why 44 officers are now under investigation. How dare you blame 11 year old gang rape victims for their suffering? Shame on you! Incidentally after this report I moved to the Rotherham area to help a group who have been researching the rape gangs in the face of police intimidation for 7 years. I can tell you there were indeed girls snatched from the street and victims abused in Clifton Park while police watched.

Jon Miller August 3, 2015 at 10:26 pm

I grew up there and went to school in Rotherham in the early/mid 1980s. I had quite a few Pakistani friends, all of them the first generation in their families to be born here and all working class. Maybe grooming of young girls happened and maybe it didn’t; I do know that I never saw it or anything like it. Not even an inkling of anything like that.

Giles August 4, 2015 at 5:15 pm

What that boils down to is “maybe the four authors of five Government reports were all lying along with the workers of the “Risky Business” project, the front line social workers who have come forward since Jay, Andrew Norfolk of the Times, the MP Sarah Champion and the survivors and their families who have given their testimony.”
A bold conclusion based on having lived in the town ten years before the rape gangs took root.

JonM August 5, 2015 at 6:34 am

Either that, or it’s being presented as a phenomenon by journalists and social workers whereas in reality it’s just something rather banal.

JonM August 5, 2015 at 6:35 am

Plus of course the media who just love phrases like “rape gangs”.

Moor Larkin August 5, 2015 at 7:25 am

* maybe the four authors of five Government reports were all lying along with the workers of the “Risky Business” project, the front line social workers who have come forward since Jay, Andrew Norfolk of the Times, the MP Sarah Champion and the survivors and their families who have given their testimony *

I would have thought the MP and the journalist would be a given. Risky Business doubtless wouldnlt know a lie from a truth: the clue might be in the name? As to the social workers, we seem to have a dichotmoy because were they lying before the report when allegedly they were dismissing the behaviour of the gals as “lifestyle choice” or were they lying after the report when they jumped aboard the bus heading the other way? The “Government reports” will be as much value so far as the “truth” is concerned as the NHS Reports about Savile, which, as the landlady has long demonstrated in here, are completely without facts, never mind “truth”.

That unseemly things were happening between generally consenting people in Rotherham is a given. That some of those people were unable to consent so far as the law is concerned, is another given. That some girls were bullied, and even burned with cigarettes seems quite a possibility, but I’ve heard of much the same happening between legitimate boyfriends and girlfriends; it often ends with the male party coming home one night to find his clothes in the street and a court order against him enforced by eager police-people and his becoming homeless. Serves him right of course, but I’m not sure he’s a predatory rapist to boot. I have certainly read that a number of the females in the northern towns cases were unwilling witnesses, forced to testify to the truth that they engaged in sexual activity, but feeling they were somehow perjuring themselves all at one and the same time.

One big common sense question raised by all of this is could 1400 women in a relatively small town could be truly raped without anyone really noticing? Only a dyed-in-the-wool feminista would find that notion credible.

Giles August 5, 2015 at 8:12 am

Lots of people noticed actually. That’s why two senior South Yorkshire Police officers threatened to hand over the Home Office researcher to the rape gangs. It wouldn’t have been much of a threat if they thought it was all consensual.
I interviewed one of the leading whistle blowers recently (I don’t have permission to name her so you are free to disbelieve). She received both threats and offers of bribes from people in authority, sufficient proof of their knowledge.
Re the social workers, you are confusing two categories. It was the managers who denied the problem (and stole the Risky Business files). The front line social workers were trying to alert people. As for the Media, far from jumping on this many journalists were informed and refused to print. Even Andrew Norfolk admits he was scared to touch it for years.
The official complicity is going to come out in a series of trials over the next three to five years. I suggest you follow them. They (the NCA) are starting with the low hanging fruit (the pimps) but you will see in due course exactly how this was kept from the public and why. I have to limit my comments due to the need to avoid derailing trials but for the time being I will say “follow the money!”
Or, better still, just follow the trials.

Moor Larkin August 5, 2015 at 9:09 am

That it was illegal and that the girls were in the care of the State are two pertinent facts. I certainly accept that parents were complaining and a minority of social workers were in harmony with them that crimes were occurring. The nub of this is surely over what sort of rape was occurring. I’m afraid I simply don’t believe that police officers and social workers would be told that girls were being held down, beaten and raped repeatedly and not immediately rescued them. I can believe that parents and a minority of social workers were complaining that under age girls were sexually involved with Asian men in an extra-marital way and the police were wary of bigoted folks objecting to miscegenation on their patch.

I shall no doubt follow whatever is reported and have no worries about derailing trials because I only know what I read and what my common sense tells me is most likely to be true.

Giles August 5, 2015 at 9:50 am: I agree it is a mind blowing claim. But without betraying anything you can read accounts of survivors brutally raped and families threatened only to find police repeatedly “lost” evidence.
Or the social worker (you can see it on youtube) trying to protect a girl begging her not to hand her over to the rapists, only to be told by the rapists “the longer you make us wait the more we will take it out on her” and by her manger “hand her over!”
I don’t know how to link using this iPhone and I don’t have time to search out all the pieces (tragically most of the Times stuff is behind a pay wall) but there’s a lot of this.
How can people (many of them parents) turn a deaf ear and a blind eye? Again I agree it seems unbelievable but the alternative is to believe all these survivors and whistle blowers are lying.
I will tell you also that there is stuff to come out about the involvement of people in authority that you will find even harder to believe, I wouldn’t have believed it myself if I hadn’t investigated it.
There are a lot of stone hearted police, councillors and social workers out there. Indeed I have concluded the child protection industry is the single greatest threat to our children after the rape gangs themselves. I would once have said the same as you. Sure maybe one officer might be utterly heartless but a whole barrel full of rotten apples? Not in the UK!
I was much happier believing that but I had to submit to the evidence. Good people are a minority I have concluded, at least amongst the higher ranks of child protection.
Incidentally I’m not spinning the line that they all kept silent due to PC. Its certainly true mangers were blinded by ideology but there is so much more to this story. As I said “follow the money” (and the ownership of the taxi firms). That’s about the limit of what I can say I’m afraid.

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Giles August 5, 2015 at 8:25 am

Perhaps I should clarify the term “interview”. The information the group I am helping has been gathering is not for publication but rather to help us form a comprehensive picture to assist the National Crime Agency. But it will be in the public domain soon enough in consequence of the trials that I believe will be coming (over and above those already scheduled for the low hanging fruit).