Oh Come All Ye Debt-full,
Feckless, Unrepentant,
O come ye, O come ye to Welby.com
Come and behold Him,
Born the King of Tallymen;
O come, let us adore Him,
O come, let us adore Him,
O come, let us adore Him,
Christ, Good Lord….the bloody world’s gone mad.
Jesus drove the Moneylenders from the Temple. The Archbishop of Canterbury has decided to set up shop in opposition to them. All hail the modern Church of England!
Welby.com pay day loan company extraordinaire is born. Archbishop Justin Welby has decided that the church is to go into the money lending business. It’s a stroke of genius.
The Church has been scrapping around for coppers from a depleted audience on a Sunday morning recently, gazing with a decidedly ungodly avarice at Wonga.Com’s vast income which allows it to advertise for new customers on prime time television – and Welby wants some of it…..
How to do that? Undercut them of course. ‘Religion-is-Us’ will lend the poor and huddled masses cheap pay day loans at reduced rates. Now that’s a great idea – in theory. But there is a reason why Wonga.com charge the rates they do – it’s because most of their customers are feckless idiots who don’t repay their loans – so Wonga have to charge everybody a lot of money to cover the unpaid debts, now that they aren’t allowed to chop your legs off any longer.
‘Religion-is-Us’ has some excellent PR going for it – I mean the Queen herself as chief executive, lets see Wonga.com match that! So, your CEOs granddaughter just dropped a sprog Wonga – who cares? Think you’re going to get Kay Burley camped outside for two days – think on!
‘Religion-is-Us’ won’t have to pay lobbyists to ensure that the government doesn’t pass any inconvenient legislation curbing its money lending activities – after all they’ve got a row of senior executives aka Bishops sitting in the House of Lords.
But what are you going to do about the bad debts Welby? I know you’ve got a few trendy vicars who ride motorbikes and wear leather jackets – but you don’t really think they are going to scare Jason and Karl into coughing up do you? How does the Devil pay for souls these days? Would he cover the debts?
Perhaps you’ll bring the ducking stool back – I seem to remember that Hereford Cathedral still has its ducking stool.
I’ve had an idea. See, Britain is a welfare state. That means that everyone who isn’t working is given the money for food and a roof over their head. Now if they haven’t got food or a roof over their head, that generally means that they chose to spend the money on something else first. Why wait until they’re skint? Get stuck in there lad! These are the businesses you should be in…
‘The Religious Arms’ – cheap beers, half price Stella, olde worlde atmosphere, original oak benches, flagstone floor, Camra approved.
‘Church Fags & Co’ – genuine imported Bulgarian baccy at prices you wont beat.
‘Meths and Myths’ – an evening of your favourite spirit in revivalist fashion.
‘Camp wedding venues’ – even the vicar wears a frock. (Scrub that, you’re already doing it).
Bingo! That’s it Bingo! Fill those seats, full house, use those hymn boards to put the numbers up.
Fill the font with chocolate – those chocolate towers are ever so popular.
Branch out – Britain isn’t the only Christian country – what about a Gay Rave in Kenya or Uganda? Wipe the floor with Club 18-25.
You’ve still got those bad debts to solve though…forget breaking their legs, break their necks instead – look! Burials are up too.
It’s win, win, win!
Suggestions for Justin Welby’s other business ventures?
Update: This morning the Financial Times (behind a paywall sadly) has discovered the identity of the main funder for the company behind those evil usurers – Wonga.com
It’s the Church of England Pension Fund……bwa….bwa…..can’t quite get my breath…..gasp……too, too good to be true. Archbishop Justice Welby is reportedly ‘furious’!!!!!
July 27, 2013 at 13:06
-
Wonga do charge high rates of interest. But it’s in the region of 50% not
5000%. And not much different to the cost of an unauthorised overdraft from a
bank, or using a credit card and paying the minimum each month. As to their
defaults, they are actually very low, in the region of 17% because they reject
60% of applicants. So they don’t get many feckless idiots who don’t repay
their loans. Wonga also stop charging interest after 60 days after a default
so the cost does not go stratospheric and after such an event you won’t be
able use Wonga again and they will seriously chase you for the money – http://help.wonga.com/articles/What_Is_external/What-happens-if-I-dont-repay-my-loan-UK/
As for other payday loan companies, they could be sharks or they could be
doing the same thing. But to pick Wonga which is the major good guy in the
market as a stick to beat the whole payday loan system is just the wrong way
to do it. Attack the bad guys, the real sharks, not Wonga.
-
July 26, 2013 at 12:52
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Maybe I am thick but, as a debt advice giver for 14 years……I often pushed
those in mild, almost accidental debt towards the local Credit Union office,
just round the corner. If it happens, in future, to be one sited in a church,
so what? Many of those in chronic debt would be less in debt if they had
somehow learnt that saving, waiting to gratify a wish to ‘own’ a product,
might be a great help.It took our town a long time to set one up. The nuts and
bolts of setting up a Credit Union are complex. Perhaps as the Archbishop was
once a banker, this is where he has an understanding of the difference between
the CU way the usual lenders way. I don’t go to church. I do not put churches
down either.
- July 26, 2013 at 12:30
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You know perfectly well what I meant, to try and turn it back to me just
portrays a certain degree of petulance.
I don’t wish to get into a slanging match, so I’ll leave it at that.
- July 26, 2013 at 12:36
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Everything you receive without working for, means that elsewhere, someone
is working for it without receiving it.
- July 26, 2013 at 12:07
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Cheap jibes based on personal knowledge don’t become you.
- July 26, 2013 at 12:15
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“Cheap jibes based on personal knowledge don’t become you.”
“With regard to living in France, that is a choice you and your fellow ex
pats were free to make.”
You’re welcome Pot.
- July 26, 2013 at 12:35
-
@ “With regard to living in France………..” @
Mrs Girard-Bellamlih, who is French but has been living in London for
12 years, has been forced to work seven days a week for months to pay back
her borrowing. the care assistant took out a series of high-interest loans
to pay her rent, when she found herself short of cash after starting a new
job on a lower salary. When she asked for an extension on one £300 loan,
it ended up costing her £600 after extra payments were added on. ‘The loan
was incredibly easy to take out, I just went online and the money was in
my account in ten minutes. But I was very worried when I found I had to
extend it and found it had increased so dramatically. ‘I ended up just
paying the interest each month for a while until I could afford to pay it
all back.’
Yet despite such stories, there is nothing illegal about
what these frequently foreign-owned companies do in the UK. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-2094224/Instant-money-loans-Payday-loan-firms-ruining-lives.html
Interesting to note in that article that there seems to be a strong
suggestion that young female borrowers are the target market and there
seems little suggestion that the unemployed would even be considered for a
loan. This business seems to target only the employed.
- July 26, 2013 at 11:49
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Naughty! I didn’t say that life on the breadline was more pleasant in the
past.
Yes, of course there are some feckless idiots, twas ever this way, but not
‘most’ as you stated. With regard to living in France, that is a choice you
and your fellow ex pats were free to make.
This is now the 21st century, not some distant 60′s memory. Why shouldn’t
the less fortunate have a half decent lifestyle? The vast majority of families
in the benefit system are decent hard working people. Their minimum wages are
supplemented with tax credits and housing benfits. Not everyone is sat
watching Jeremy Kyle and drinking Stella on their DFS sofas as you seem to
think.
- July 26, 2013 at 12:00
- July 26, 2013 at 12:32
-
“…Not everyone is sat watching Jeremy Kyle and drinking Stella on their
DFS sofas as you seem to think…”
No, but many are. That is without question – and I personally know people
who have never worked, are approaching 60 and in the last 10 years have had
5 or 6 holidays in Egypt. I know others who have never worked, complain
bitterly about their benefits (‘Smy rite, innit?) yet still smoke some
20/day, buy wine and visit the pub more often than I can afford to.
I have to be up at 0430 so I can be out of my house at 0610, have a two
and a half hour trip (each way) to work, which includes between one and a
half and two miles (again, each way) on foot. And I am well over 60. And I
have a 45 yr history of (psoriatic) arthritis. I get back home at around
1900 which leaves me some seven hours for bathing, preparing my clothes,
eating, ironing etc. etc. and having around 4-5 hrs sleep per night.
I’m lucky to have a job, but I fail to see the justification for the
large amounts extracted from my pay-packet, which is given to others to fund
a lifestyle far more luxurious than mine.
- July 26, 2013 at 11:22
-
You’re living in the past Anna. I take my knowledge first hand from living
in an area that is full of these ”feckless idiots” as you call them. Where do
you get your up to date information from?
- July 26, 2013 at 11:36
- July 26, 2013 at 11:10
-
– it’s because most of their customers are feckless idiots who don’t repay
their loans –
It’s becoming increasingly obvious that you really don’t have any idea what
it is like to be living on the breadline in Britain today.
- July 26, 2013 at 11:15
- July 26, 2013 at 10:51
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The Church helping the down trodden and needy!
Whatever next?
- July 26, 2013 at 11:03
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If I’m reading the background to all this correctly, they’ve been helping
their staff for a long time and doing bugger all for the needy, so maybe
Welby is onto something; but I’m a bit puzzled why he had this “meeting”
with the Wonga boss first. What was that meant to achieve exactly? It’s not
like Wonga are alone in this line of business.
If the Church starts running an ethical bookmaker business, will he have
chats with Betfred first? Not that I’m suggesting Betfred aren’t ethical. At
the end of the day, wouldn’t the Church be better off giving money to these
needy people instead of making them borrow it? What next? School-fee loans
from the NSPCC rather than Scholarships….. remember those? Rich people
giving money to poorer people’s kids. A very Victorian idea. How
old-fashioned.
- July 26, 2013 at 08:32
-
And so it came to pass – the C/E attacking the wonga wronga you’ll pay
longa longa ……. a company they fund !!!! Someone shudda told the arch bish
http://news.sky.com/story/1120531/wonga-church-of-england-funding-link-found
- July 25, 2013 at 23:29
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No only until the day of judgement…community service and a tag!
- July 25, 2013 at 21:48
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I can see this all ending in tears. Can anyone imagine the C of E taking
people to court, bringing the bailiffs in for non payment of the pay day loan?
Yep, tits up.
-
July 25, 2013 at 23:04
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What if there’s an afterlife ……. ? Will one be expected to pay for ever,
and ever …….. and ever
-
July 25, 2013 at 23:09
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Amen.
-
July 25, 2013 at 23:14
-
-
July 25, 2013 at 23:54
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The threat of Excommunication should be sufficient ………..
Welby could plagiarise a papal bull of Pope Paul III, from 12 November
1548:-
The promise that God inflicts “maledictions and excommunications” on all
who abandon a debt of theirs whom they have the means to repay, and that
they cannot be absolved unless they first refund all expenses incurred.
- July 25, 2013 at 20:35
-
A retired teacher friend told me that GCSE maths is actually taught in
three national streams and that only the minority in the top one learns the
full National Curriculum, including percentages. If you don’t understand such
a simple concept, how are you supposed to negotiate mortgages and other loans?
While I would prefer an education system that actually helps people cope with
their adult lives, I would settle for people learning on the job of life by
being exposed to the consequences of their ignorance. Of course, the modern
Welfare State doesn’t permit that!
So in the present screwed-up situation, I see no harm at all in the Church
having a go at something practical. At least taxpayers won’t be asked to fund
it. Churchgoers’ offerings have the moral benefit of being voluntary. The CofE
used to be wealthy until it lost most of it in the 90s property crash. If this
venture beggars it more, so what? It may bring clerics back into contact with
reality, which would be no bad thing. Both sides of the Church Credit Union
loan application should learn something. And the Church, one hopes, may be
more likely to query if the borrower really *needs* the loan and offer advice
about a debt-free life. Wonga.com and its competitors cannot reasonably be
expected to do that.
- July 25, 2013 at 19:54
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“Collect your loan in church on Sunday” (after sitting through the service
to qualify, of course.) That’ll put bums on seats!
-
July 25, 2013 at 18:18
-
The sermon could be interesting. Half way through the vicar says “And now
some important messages from our sponsors…” and Mr Singh from the corner shop
stands up to tell the congregation what’s on special offer this week followed
by the local window cleaner touting for business.
And, of course, when they’re all finished the vicar says “Welcome back”
even though nobody went anywhere.
- July 25, 2013 at 17:42
-
Seems Welby might be onto something here.
What about renaming canterbury
cathedral in favour of sponsorship. St Barclays has a nice ring to it. And how
about sponsors logos on clerical robes
-
July 25, 2013 at 17:00
-
I checked this story, because, as presented, it’s actually pretty
implausible, given that Welby used to be a banker, and probably hasn’t
forgotten the importance of loan repayment. And I found that the article by
Anna leaves out one key detail.
It isn’t aimed at the poor and huddled masses. It’s a credit union for
“Church of England staff”. So you have to be a bishop, or vicar, or deacon, or
whatever to borrow from prayday loans. And since the income of these folks
comes from the church, it’ll be a doddle for the church to collect on any bad
debts.
- July 25, 2013 at 17:10
- July 25, 2013 at 19:30
-
July 25, 2013 at 21:22
-
The Catholic Church has always played a smart game by encouraging its
adherents to confess all their wickednesses each week, however serious or
trivial, to the local priest. That way, the ‘sinner’ is in permanent hock to
the local priest who knows all about the sinner’s naughtinesses, so will be
encouraged to keep attending, contribute more to the plate, keep breeding
more to stay poor, thus staying in hock for ever. Two thousand years and
counting, it still works a treat.
It looks like Welby.con has worked out that the CofE can’t get away with
introducing weekly confession, so has identified the next best thing: just
use the device of an apparently-friendly Credit Union to keep folk in hock –
what’s more, they can then lean on the poor suckers to put some of the money
they’ve borrowed straight back in the plate, so it can be lent out again,
while the borrowers’ debts just keep rising. Ideal Ponzi territory – but
then he was/is a banker, or some other rhyming-slang.
- July 25, 2013 at 16:56
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Under EU-sanctioned non-discrimination laws, the Holy See refuses to allow
its market share to dwindle, so decides on a marketing ploy.
Discounts.
Now, for a limited period, just two Hail Marys per sin confessed. Visit
your local priest today.
-
July 25, 2013 at 16:53
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Pope Francis has not yet moved to the Papal apartments, prefers a more
humble abode. Not your typical Pope so far.
-
July 25, 2013 at 16:51
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Indulgences. You sell people a “Get out of purgatory free” certificate. You
can sell it online, and they can download the certificate and print it on
their own printer, thus eliminating printing costs, delivery costs and the
dangerous wait until the certificate arrives (what if you die in the
meantime?). You’re already immune to any “Truth in advertising” legislation;
you must be because you’re already making advertising claims that you cannot
back up, I see them outside most of your churches.
And at a higher price, there’s the “Get out of Hell free” card, which
allows you to commit any crime up to and including murder (secular legal
restrictions apply, you still might go to prison) without going to Hell.
You could also bring back simony. Don’t just give away the sacrament –
insist that people should fork up for it. If they have faith, they’ll see it
as a great deal. And on the supply side, since it costs nothing, the margins
are excellent.
And that opens up another opportunity – if the vicar is able to raise
revenue this way, the office of vicar becomes quite valuable, and anything
that’s valuable, could be sold. Instead of the current wasteful practice of
appointing vicars for free, you could charge a stiff fee for the position.
While on the subject of supply-side costs, holy water is another sure-fire
fundraiser. All you need is tapwater and a blessing. Since there’s no dilution
issue, you could bless an entire reservoir-full of water, bottle that, and
sell it. I’ve even got a suggested brand name for you. Peckham Spring.
The church used to do very well out of selling indulgences. I can’t imagine
why they stopped.
- July 25, 2013 at 16:45
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Now available at http://www.praydayloan.co.uk/
-
July 25, 2013 at 16:19
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When the going gets tough … http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/23/jack-monroe-face-modern-poverty
- July 26,
2013 at 07:02
-
“Losing £14 a week to the bedroom tax may…”
ARRRGH! IT’S NOT A TAX! Nor is housing benefit ‘a tyranny’, FFS!
- July 26, 2013 at 08:11
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A shame she cannot sell the tattoos on her arms, they must be worth a
few hundred.
How do you get to be 24 and so helplessly hopeless?
Oh
she’s not! She’s just got a book deal!!
I love a happy ending.
- July 27, 2013 at 12:34
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She had been passionate about cooking ever since her food technology
course at school (“a form of escapism from all the words and
numbers”)
So she hadn’t got the self-discipline required to do the harder and
more boring stuff at school – like the essential subjects Maths &
English, but preferred to mess about enjoying herself doing cookery –
now given the wonderfully Orwellian name of Food Technology. I wonder
why she’s unemployed?
(Yes, yes, I know there are people who can read and write and add up
and they are umemployed too. Let them eat cake too. Actually Spaghetti
Hoops. Heartless bastard I am).
She went to a grammar school too, crows the Guardian. In any other
circumstances they would pillory her for that. But no, she left at 16
(yes, and….?) ‘bullied and disillusioned’.
I went to a grammar school and left at aged 16. There was a bit of
bullying went on, especially when one was about 4 foot nothing, 11 years
old and way down the pecking order. Mind you this was the barbarian
1970s and all the pupils were warmongers and abusers and criminals in
waiting – ie: young men. I wouldn’t say I was disillusioned though.
About what exactly? It may have been a grammar school but we weren’t
going around feeling that profound and being ‘disillusioned’ with
various lofty ideals. We were only aged 16 – or less. Silly girl.
But anyway, now she has jobs flowing out of the walls at her, though
I note none of them are in the real business of production and wealth
creation. Still – she can’t make ends meet, not even after a dropsy of
25 grand from the Bolsheviks. NO DOUBT SHE’S SPENT IT ALL ON CIDER &
MORE TATTOOS I say, in my best Daily Fail voice. Get a proper job, never
mind ‘in the meeja a lot’ ….. moaning and complaining and fomenting yet
more dissent. Give this woman a real job – in a turnip field in
Northumbria, plying a hoe between the rows of precious vegetables. After
all she’s energetic – the article tells us so.
“I’m not going to stop championing causes, campaigning and stamping
my feet about things that are wrong,
Guards – shoot that woman!
Until people realise benefits doesn’t mean scrounger, and austerity
isn’t a fun middle-class way to grow your own vegetables, there’s still
a lot of work to do.”
Lot of work eh, that W word again. She hasn’t seen a day of it in her
life. But, I hear you say…..
She’s bringing up a demanding little human being – all on her own.
Yes well then, no surprises there either. She should have spent more
time listening in Biology classes rather than baking cakes and being
disillusioned.
Have you read some of the comments under the article? Some of the
contributors just put +1 …… which is I think an extremely profound way
of doing things and furthermore proves that these people did take notice
in Maths classes. That’s why they are now successful and read The
Guardian.
- July 31, 2013 at 23:19
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I am somewhat suspicious about Jack Monroe and her “food” blog. I
remember first hearing about it about six months ago, and went to
check it out … there were only maybe three recipes on her site at the
time — the rest was political comment. I remember wondering how she
was getting so much exposure for this *feed yourself for tuppence*
blog when there was so little of that content there.
As a frugal cook brought up in very old-fashioned and traditional
working-class methods of making food go a long way, I think her
costings are very disingenuous, the portion sizes are very small, and
she uses very expensive ingredients. In one recipe, the idea is that a
meal for one person would contain a quarter of a courgette, 12g of
cheese, 50g of yoghurt, scattering of green beans and 50g of pasta:
this might feed a small child, but it is nowhere near a main meal for
an adult and to actually make the dish, you would need over £10 of
ingredients to hand. By her accounting methods, I can make an enormous
slab of meat mousakka for 45p.
-
July 25, 2013 at 16:15
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Don’t worry, at this rate Welby will be being bailed out by the Vatican
bank (that well known bastion of probity) in return for reunification with
Rome.
Then truly will Poe Francis be able to claim the title of “Petrus Romanus”
and we can wend or merry way towards the Apocalypse.
- July 25, 2013 at 16:08
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The only people Christ is recorded as having lifted a physical finger
against were the moneychangers in the Temple, the financial skivs of the day.
His verbal condemnations were mostly pointedly targeted at the sanctimonious
religious leaders, who imposed undue moral burdens on people, by the ever
increasing application of minute rules and regulations, as if they were of
some spiritual value, as opposed to their teaching people of the great
principles which most of us might agree should underpin the manner in which we
live with, and help, each other
In that context, he’d probably had more than a few words of disdain for
most of today’s bankers, usurers, politicians and omnipotent moral busybodies.
And as far as this goes, I’d think he might be more inclined to take the view
that the ArchBish might be for Him, rather than against Him, irrespective of
whether or not the good intent might be a wee bit clouded, in practical terms,
by an element of wishful thinking or fond hope syndrome
- July 25, 2013 at 15:43
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Back in the bad old days before Henry VIII threw his strop with the Pope,
it is alledged that the Bishop of Bath and Wells controlled the finest
brothels in the land. It would make a change from choirboys, wouldn’t it!
-
July 26, 2013 at 09:51
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That is why the sign of the (Bishops’) red cap was the mark of a brothel
and of the pubs which were dual purpose. e.g. “The Mother Red Cap”.
- July 25, 2013 at 15:24
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And, from the NS&I today, vaguely ‘on topic’:
From 1 August 2013 we will allocate 5% of the prize fund to higher value
prizes, 4% to medium value prizes and 91% to lower value prizes (currently 6%,
5% and 89% respectively). The odds of each £1 Bond number winning a prize in
the monthly draw will be 26,000 to 1 (currently 24,000 to 1).
If you hold Premium Bonds, this means the chances of each of your £1 Bond
numbers winning a prize will be slightly less from 1 August.
We understand that rate reductions are never good news so we wanted to let
you know about the change as soon as we could. However, we believe that
Premium Bonds are still a great way to enjoy 100% security for your money,
backed by HM Treasury, while giving you the chance to win £1 million or other
cash prizes. And any prize you win is completely free of UK Income Tax and
Capital Gains Tax.
I’ll have to cash in the GBP10 worth of premium bonds I’ve had since Ernie
started and have never won me a penny in however many decades that is…
-
July 25, 2013 at 14:54
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At this rate they’ll be putting newsthump out of business too.
They are beyond parody.
{ 46 comments }