I have finally lost patience with the whingeing weegies in the sulphurous sewer that is Glasgow. The spectacle presented worldwide in national news outlets, of Scotland’s ’finest’, who are normally keen to tell us that they live on the breadline, breaking out the champagne and party poppers to celebrate the death of a woman, any woman, is beyond despicable, and utterly hypocritical. They have no part to play in any nation that contains the words ‘Great’ in its title.

It is time for the Socialist Republic of Scotland to stand alone.

That they all appear to be too young to have any experience of life before Thatcher, their views can only be the product of their schooling and parenting.  They have been indoctrinated from birth, and like undisciplined dogs, it would be kinder to maroon them in their inhospitable land now, rather than endure their rabid attacks on unsuspecting citizens.

To hear their views – ‘Thatcher forced the sale of council houses’ – she forced no one. She gave their comrades, their dutiful soviet style fellow citizens, the opportunity to sell their council houses and escape; no one forced them.  No one demanded that they deprive future citizens of a council house – they chose to do so in their droves, happy to take the money  from hard working citizens who wished to buy – and run; part of the reason that Southern Spain is now full of retired laundromat workers, and  amusement arcade mechanics soaking up the sun rather than grinding their way through another day of grunge and humiliation in downtown Glasgow. Do I see the ex-Glaswegians in Spain celebrating Thatcher’s death? No, they at least are not hypocrites.

‘They’ve never forgiven Thatcher for ‘using Scotland as a testing ground’ for the Poll Tax’ – does that mean they wouldn’t have been celebrating if it had started in another part of the country first? I doubt it. They would find another reason. They would only have been happy if Scotland had been excused paying anything at all for its services. They’ve never been weaned from the national teat.

‘They’ve never forgiven her for decimating the mining communities’ – rubbish; the strikes decimated the mining communities. Just as the strikes decimated the Liverpool ship building communities. Strikes called because they saw no reason why their fellow citizens shouldn’t continue to pay over the odds for fuel, and live in a land of environmentally unfriendly smog – so that they could continue to live next door to their Aunty Maisie, with no regard for their Uncle Jimmy and his coal dust slaked lungs, or his crushed arm from yet another pit fall. Come to that, the risk of the comrades ‘glowing in the dark‘. They would really rather, those champagne wielding idiots, be down a mine today? Would they Hell! Given the choice, they’d rather be drawing their dole and whingeing. Let Scotland have its independence – they can re-open their mines and hack away at the unforgiving coal face to their hearts content. The South won’t have to subsidise their vocal demands to live in the past.

It is the socialists who demand so many new hate laws, who rush like lemmings to Twittter whenever they feel outraged on behalf of someone, especially a woman, who has been slighted in some way – yet it is the socialists who feel that it is acceptable to ‘tramp down the earth‘, to dance in the streets, to celebrate the death of a woman with the ‘toffs’ drink of choice, champagne.  Why? Because she had a different philosophy to them. 23 years ago.

Can you imagine if Scargill had been successful and the government had given in to his bullying of the nation, that Thatcherites would have been out on the street cheering and celebrating his death when it occurred? It is unthinkable.

Can you imagine if Thatcher had demanded that all mines remain open and all able bodied men in Scotland work down them? Uproar!

Can you imagine if Thatcher had passed a law saying that council houses were only for ‘those in need’ – that you could not pass it on to your children, could not buy or sell it, could only live in a particular type of house whilst your need dictated it? Plenty of houses coming empty as children grew up and moved away – but uproar at the unfairness to ‘the poor’.

Can you imagine if Thatcher had opened the borders and encouraged the immigration of hundreds of thousands of people prepared to work for less money ‘to rub the noses of the left in it’. General strikes all over the country!

Can you imagine if Thatcher had sold all the countries Gold, and then overspent by billions cosseting rich voters in the South of England? By God, they’d have had a million reasons to hate the woman then – but do you imagine that any Southerners would be crass enough, hypocritical enough, ignorant enough, to be found dancing in the streets on Gordon Browns’ death? D’you know what her real crime was?

The greatest division this nation has ever seen were the conflicts of trade unions towards the end of a Labour Government—terrible conflicts. That trade union movement then was under the diktat of trade union bosses, some of whom are still there. They used their power against their members. They made them come out on strike when they didn’t want to. They loved secondary picketing. They went and demonstrated outside companies where there was no dispute whatsoever, and sometimes closed them down. They were acting as they were later in the coal strike, before my whole trade union laws were through of this Government. They were out to use their power to hold the nation to ransom, to stop power from getting to the whole of manufacturing industry to damage people’s jobs, to stop power from getting to every house in the country, power, heat and light to every housewife, every child, every school, every pensioner. You want division; you want conflict; you want hatred. There it was. It was that which Thatcherism—if you call it that—tried to stop. Not by arrogance, but by giving power to the ordinary, decent, honourable, trade union member who didn’t want to go on strike. By giving power to him over the Scargills of this world.

Those dancing in the streets preferred the dictatorship of Scargill. Let them have it.

Is it unfair to set loose an entire nation based on the antics of a few puerile unreconstructed Neanderthals dancing in the streets?

If it is fair to base the effects of a moving global economy, of third world countries discovering that they can manufacturer things cheaper and more efficiently than we can, of technology and innovation decimating some industries – on the words of one woman, and generate so much hatred, then I believe it is.

Unless, of course, the unthinkable were to happen, and those in charge of the Scottish economy denounce those celebrations with the same venom they reserve for those who offend footballers, then I might recant…

Frankie April 12, 2013 at 18:41

I say ‘Give us all the vote and, by an overwhelming majority, we, the
citizens of the United Kingdom will overwhelmingly vote to give those
ungrateful blighters what they have asked for – their independence.’

Thereafter, erect Customs posts along the border, rebuild the wall and
leave them to enjoy the fruits(?) of their own wealth. I would much rather we
were all United Kingdom and could all get on, but it would seem that some will
never be content to be a part of a greater whole.

Let them depart then.

Lucozade April 11, 2013 at 17:25

Ho Hum,

Re: “Surely there is also an argument that Scots vote cyclically for Labour
and the SNP, because doing so is the only realistic way of getting rid of the
other from power”

I think that’s the case usually, I don’t think many would vote for Labour
other wise….

Mark April 11, 2013 at 15:36

Unfortunately I think that the majority of Scots know which side their
bread is buttered and would rather get their beer tokens from the hated
English rather than risk relying on their ain folk to keep them happily
lolling about on their fat backsides.

Lucozade April 11, 2013 at 15:44

Mark,

I’ll be voting for independence anyway if it gets rid of the tories, lol

Mark April 11, 2013 at 16:03

Independence might get rid of the Tories in Scotland (not that there
are any there these days) but it will help them secure a majority in
England – even with the execrable leadership of Cameron.

Moor Larkin April 11, 2013 at 16:10

@ Independence might get rid of the Tories in Scotland (not that
there are any there these days) @

From earlier……….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/region/7.stm
Scottish
National Party…………….. 491,386
Conservative………………………….. 412,855

shome mishtake shurely?

Mark
April 11, 2013 at 16:30

As I understand it there is only one Conservative MP who won a
Scottish seat – David Mundell who represents Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale
and Tweeddale.
Despite the three names it is only one seat.

Moor Larkin April 11, 2013 at 16:42

It was as much the number of votes in favour of the SNP v those
favouring the Tories that caught my eye….

Ho Hum
April 11, 2013 at 16:50

Surely there is also an argument that Scots vote cyclically for
Labour and the SNP, because doing so is the only realistic way of
getting rid of the other from power

Moor Larkin April 11, 2013 at 17:01

I would guess they have voted SNP for the Scottish Parliament in
much the same way my dad would vote Tory in the council elections and
they vote Labour in the Generals – just as my dad said he did, much as
I would pressure him otherwise……….

Presumably, if Independence occurs there will still be a Scottish
Labour Party. Perhaps a Scottish Tory Party might be a tad
differentiated from the UK version and rise to prominence with future
hands of friendship over the garden wall.

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 16:21

Mark,

Re: “Independence might get rid of the Tories in Scotland (not that
there are any there these days) but it will help them secure a majority
in England – even with the execrable leadership of Cameron”

Well, let’s just hope Scotland gets independence then.

Bet it won’t though….

Ho Hum
April 11, 2013 at 16:40

I would love to agree with you that that would be a good thing, but
I can’t. At one time in the past, now far too distant, a Scot might
reasonably have had a vision of himself as if a colossus, astride the
globe. Not now. All we’ve had recently is Gordon B and Wee Alex, more
like a couple of Lawsons Pork Pies and Chipolata, or maybe even the
Krankies, looking for all the world as if they would be better
employed doing some sort of jig from the White Heather Club
archives

Independence? Way to go, if you want be run by a bunch of small
minded, puritanical wee men and women, convinced of their own
superiority in all matters moral, fiscal and legal, with limited
vision and an apparent underlying taste for compulsion that would make
Eastern Bloc residents run for the hills. Scots, as politicians, are
generally not up to it when it comes to having real vision as to how
to lead free people, in a free country, in a free world

Not that others are much better, but left with no balancing
influence at all, I shudder to think where it will end up

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 17:39

Ho Hum,

Re: “Independence? Way to go, if you want be run by a bunch of
small minded, puritanical wee men and women, convinced of their own
superiority in all matters moral, fiscal and legal, with limited
vision and an apparent underlying taste for compulsion that would make
Eastern Bloc residents run for the hills”

Not really. What do you mean by convinced of their own superiority
in all matters moral, legal and fiscal though?

They should just let me take over….

convinced of their own superiority in all matters moral, fiscal and
legal, with limited vision and an apparent underlying taste for
compulsion that would make

Ho Hum
April 11, 2013 at 18:36

As an example then. From within…

Shifting the Culture
A proposal for a bill to bring forward
measures to help change culture in relation to alcohol in Scotland

Dr Richard Simpson MSP &
Graeme Pearson MSP

(both Scottish Labour)

‘We propose a new requirement on any court which convicts a person
for an offence in
which (in the court’s opinion) alcohol was a
significant contributory factor, to notify the
person’s GP
accordingly. We would consider extending this to other
circumstances
involving alcohol- related offending behaviour, but
which do not involve a conviction
– for example, the issuing of a
fixed penalty notice or fiscal fine, a warning letter from
the
procurator fiscal, or just arrest and detention by the police
(where the person is
subsequently released without charge). In
these situations, the police or other authority
could also be
obliged to report the circumstances to the person’s GP.

The requirement to report to a particular GP would only arise if
the offender was
prepared to provide his or her GP’s details
voluntarily; if this was not provided, the
obligation would be to
inform all GPs’ surgeries in the area in which the offender
is
resident. ‘

The latter suggestion is a wee bit of a shift in moral and legal
interference, isn’t it? Even if not convicted….
Sheesh…they mean
well, but what sort of world do you want to live in, when those sort
of ideas start expanding into other things? And don’t tell me they
won’t. I’m too old to fall for that sort of nonsense again. Anyway,
they’re old hat to Labour. For instance…

http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/blog/2008/05/13/hazel-blears-and-sergeant-flanderka—tension-monitoring-ie-snooping-on-local-communities.html

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 19:02

Ho Hum,

Re: “Even if not convicted….”

Yeah that’s talking it a bit too far. I could see the point if the
person had actually committed a crime because of their drinking. But
you wouldn’t really want the doctor contacted just because you
accidentally got a bit too drunk once for the first time in 5 years
and hadn’t even been convicted of a crime….

m.barnes April 11, 2013 at 13:33

As I am constantly reminded by family and friends whenever I go back to
Scotland, you shouldn’t believe everything you read in the media. A consistent
% of scots have said in poll after poll that they don’t want independence.
Alex will have his referendum and it will go the same way as Nick’s. The fact
that Alex Salmond could annoy the angels should not disguise the paucity of
his arguments.

Den April 11, 2013 at 13:50

That may be the case but, the fact remains that 5 million Scots help to
give Labour a majority in Westminster which rules us 50+ million. This is
totally disproportionate. The English should have a vote in the referendum
so that Scotland can be made independent, thus saving us from another tax n
spend, cultural Marxist mob. All the Labour/Marxism doesn’t stop Scottish
racism against the English e.g. “Anyone but England T-Shirts” etc. Apart
from anything else, the last two Scottish PMs have really fouled us up. Let
the Scots go their own way and we ours. Cry ‘God for Harry, England and St
George’.

Ho Hum April 11, 2013 at 14:10

Oddly, the most popular party throughout the whole country seems to
have fairly consistently won the country’s ‘national’ elections. I guess
there must have been a few beastly English & Welsh just happened to
make up for the overall shortfall that there would have been in in the
Scots numbers alone, when making those majorities

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/UK_parliamentary_elections_from_1950_graph.png

And for what it’s worth, St George was Greek, born in what is now
Israel, and famous for exploits in Asia Minor, ie Turkey. If the English
were to go their own way, they might want to take a map, just so as to
make sure they don’t get lost……

Den April 11, 2013 at 14:18

So what? He’s still the patron saint of my country. I suppose we
don’t have to ask permission as to who we want for our patron saint.
What’s wrong with being born in Israel or doing stuff in Asia Minor?
Sounds a bit racist that

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 15:34

Den,

Re: “last two Scottish PMs have really fouled us up”

Life under Margaret Thatcher and the Conservatives may have been good
for you, fair enough, but it most definitely was not good for everyone. My
dad always worked and my mum worked part time in the evening when we were
very young – and in the late 80′s and early 90′s we most definitely were
‘poor’.

In order for those in high paid jobs to be in that position there also
needs to be people in lower paid jobs beneath them, whose jobs are just as
valuable and required, that is an unavoidable fact. If people don’t get
paid enough to make ends meet then they are going to not be particularly
happy about that.

Contrary to popular belief among those fortunate enough to have either
always been comfortably well off, or when not earning so much perhaps
didn’t have a family to look after at that point, not everyone 20 to 25 or
more years ago who complained about being ‘poor’, was actually on the
dole.

A lot of people that don’t vote Conservative probably don’t do so (if
they vote at all) A) because they don’t like their policies or B) Because
they remember what it was bloody like the last time round (before David
Cameron and Tony Blair etc). It’s as simple as that.

In order for people to work in high paid positions, they need people
below them working less well paid positions which are very often no less
valuable.

Den April 11, 2013 at 16:16

Hi Lucozade,

You seem to have me confused with someone else and your Socialist
views leave me cold I’m afraid. I left school in ’58 and worked on a
factory line. I realised that one could be socially mobile (before
NuLab) and went to night school, the OU and Brookes eventually getting
an HNC, a BA and a Masters. I worked as a labourer, an electrician and,
in later years a manager. Yes, my wage/salary gradually improved and we
could buy shoes for the kids – I had a couple of pints of beer once a
month – things were looking up. I paid union dues all my life – I had
been brought up by decent Socialists – not the sort that want to run
things according to the Frankfurt School. Needless to say the union
organisers did very well and the workers less so. I believed in
socialism until I was 57 years old when my wife was terminally ill.
Surprise, surprise, there was nothing of the welfare safety net left for
us it had all been pissed away. We struggled on alone till the end. That
was when I realised the truth about Socialism. It looks good on paper –
but how can corrupt humanity operate it properly without the psychopaths
taking it over and running it to their own advantage? I am now an
individualist and do what I can myself. I’ve never voted Tory and won’t
while they carry on in the way they are. I shall go with UKIP for now to
try to get away from the Marxist run EU. Before you lecture me again let
me say that I don’t suppose UKIP would show high principle if ever it
got power. “Power tends to corrupt…….”. In this Socialist world I trust
very few people nowadays and there are no politicians on my list.

The Socialist trade unionists with whom I worked in the 50s did not
pay their hard-earned shillings in union dues to bring about this
welfare state of dependence – they would be horrified at what has been
done. They were hard working, decent men who wanted a safety net, not
something to be manipulated into what we have now: Welfare dependence,
Cultural Marxism, politically correct censorship, a Marxist EU and a
neutered Parliament.

I’ll stop now, you’ve certainly drawn me out – I wonder if that was
your intention? I’ll end by saying don’t judge anyone till you know
their story. I await your further insights.

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 16:40

Den,

Oh right I didn’t realise, just thought you were harping on about
what a good Prime minister Margaret Thatcher was over Tony Blair,
Gordon Brown etc, so wanted to point out that it wasn’t for
everyone.

I didn’t realise my views were all that socialist.

So, could your wife not get sick pay/benefits?

Daedalus X. Parrot April 11, 2013 at 17:00

Very well said Den.

Lucozade April 11, 2013 at 01:55

Glasgow’s appears to be the tamest of them all, especially compared with
Bristol!

And seems to be comprised mainly of older people with a special interest in
politics ….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306165/Margaret-Thatcher-death-parties-The-Lefts-sick-celebration-Brixtons-streets.html

Lucozade April 10, 2013 at 21:58

carol42,

Re: “Glasgow has been run by Labour as long as I can remember, and little
has improved but they still get voted in again and again”

Glasgow seems to have a lot more going for it than a lot of places
facilities etc….

Ho Hum April 10, 2013 at 22:15

@ carol42

Some might think that your saying that Glasgow might be thought to be a
dump because it once was, is almost like saying that London isn’t a dump
because it once wasn’t, except, of course, for the fact that it always was.
Anyway….

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2930

carol42 April 10, 2013 at 23:18

That is certainly true of the city centre and the West End, it is the
wastelands ourside that are deeply depressing. I was there last year in
Paisley, not Glasgow I know, but it was a sad experience. One area that is
vastly improved is Castlemilk since it now seems to be much beter run, it
used to be a real dump. A friend recently bought her flat there and houses
seem to be selling very well. Shame they don’t seem to be able to so the
same in other vast housing estates.

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 00:17

carol42,

Yeah it’s all been rejuvenated – theirs some nice houses in
Castlemilk.

I wouldn’t vote Conservative anyway, no way, lol….

carol42 April 10, 2013 at 21:21

I am Glasgow born though I left many years ago and I was utterly disgusted
by the sight of those idiots in George Square. To ‘celebrate’ anyones death is
vile. I just wish the BBC would spend a few hours with the old footage of just
what it was like in the 70s, only those of us who were there know the full
horror of those days, not stupid kids who were likely not even born then and
who have clearly not been taught any factual history or politics. If Scotland
has more of a sense of community I can’t say I ever saw it when I lived there
and most of my family still do. Glasgow has been run by Labour as long as I
can remember, and little has improved but they still get voted in again and
again. I am unsure about independence, it would be a shame but in a way it
might be better for everyone, though the unfair develution will have to sorted
at some time if there is not to be independence. Maybe it is time for Northern
Ireland, Scotland and Wales to go their own way and let England run her own
affairs. I think some of the trouble for Scotland is that many of her most
able and ambitious tend to leave and for those who stay the best jobs are in
the public sector. Perhaps the Union is coming to a natural end. From my own
family only one is voting for independemce that I know of.

Brian April 10,
2013 at 18:11

Individuals in Scotland have had a right to buy their croft houses and land
since 1976 and crofting communities have been able to force a sale on the
laird since 2003:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/farmingrural/Rural/rural-land/right-to-buy/crofting

Leftie bigots applaud this policy because it is compulsory purchase from a
private landlord’s stock of property onto the open market. Council house right
to buy (it has always been possible to buy surplus council houses if the
council agreed to sell) transfers property from a public landlord onto the
open market. If one swallows a double measure of hypocrisy it is possible to
appreciate the difference.

davidb April 10, 2013 at 17:56

I was bemused by much of the above. Alas you are all being manipulated by
media, and are not seeing bigger pictures. A more profound understanding of
the history of these islands, their various tribes and of the historic role of
religion would allow a more sober reflection.

If it is right that England should stay out of the Euro because a one size
interest rate is bad for a group of economies so divergent, how is it right
for Scotland, Northern England, Cornwall and London to share the same
currency? Are houses in Penzance selling for £20million? Does the consumer
credit market in Liverpool need damping down? But the rump of this UK economy
has been funded by an explosion of financial services in the City of London.
So interest rates and taxes and monetary policy have been dictated by the
requirements of that place. That is not any more in Scotland’s interest than
it is in Newcastle’s. If Salmond wants to join the Euro he will be laughed at
– although not 10 years ago. If Scotland has its own currency – well we export
whisky and oil – so our currency would be “hard” if it wasn’t pegged to
something else. Best not rock the boat, there’s a referendum to be won.
Politics.

A handful of dicks from the Shagger Sheridan Tendancy doth not a nation
make. 10 % of the electors voted for extreme left parties just a few years ago
in Scotland. They no more represent the majority of Scots than do morris
dancers represent England. So some of them felt it was OK to be filmed
clowning around in bad taste. It was a couple of hundred I heard reported. We
must all be the same then. And all black men must be rapists and all guys with
beards are child molesters. Get a grip. Most people are indifferent, many I
know acknowledge her strengths and some do not want to resile from an
irrational bitterness. The Irish minority community derived much support here
in Scotland during the troubles. Bobby Sands ( a fine songwriter btw ) was
revered in some quarters. I could quite understand if someone bore a grudge
for the Baroness’ perceived part in his demise. Did anyone find out if the
handful of mawkish souls had a “sound” reason for their ill manners?

Scotland pays its way in the UK. The real cash drain is Ireland. But chunks
of Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Birmingham and even bits of London are a
big drain on the public purse. Oh, and we are your shock troops. Twice as many
in proportion to population die in your global posturing wars. Got to have
that UN seat and unaffordable trident missiles or England would be the poor
permanent member.

The empire is gone now. Do many of you who have this hatred of Scotland
bear a bitter resentment towards India, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and
the other quarter of the globe that decided it did not want to be part of
“England” any more? Anna, I don’t know if Monbazillac was ever part of
England, but do you feel a bitterness towards the people of Calais or Poitiers
which used to belong to England? What is this antipathy towards us ungrateful
Scots? Are there not enough ingrates in Lewisham or Notting Hill to go
round?

I thought she was the best PM we have had since the war. And I am voting
Yes in the referendum. I do not hate you FEB’s, I just think that Frenchmen
should run France, Spaniards Spain, and Scotsmen Scotland. Is that so bad?

Johnd2008 April 10, 2013 at 14:39

I have experienced this type of mindless hate by the left before when I
refused to strike in 1971. The instructions came down from Union headquarters
without the pretence of a ballot. One thing that no one seems to be asking, in
the event of a yes vote for independence, how many ships will there be in a
Scottish navy and how many aircraft in the Scottish air force?

Ted Treen April 10, 2013 at 21:46

a) Two coracles and b) one tame but probably pissed Golden Eagle.

Tom Mein April 10, 2013 at 14:35

Well said Anna, maybe it would be nice of the whole of the UK had an
opportunity to vote on Scottish independence rather like the way that Scottish
mps are able to vote on English affairs?

Tony (Somerset)
April 10, 2013 at 13:54

If Scotland wants to go, let them go. But don’t expect the rest of the UK
to pay anything.

GildasTheMonk
April 10, 2013 at 13:38

I am bound to say I have been harbouring exactly such sentiments for some
time now. I am heartily sick of the endless carping. Also, it would end the
prospect of Labour rule in England forever – a distinct plus!

Wigner’s Friend
April 10, 2013 at 13:30

The only problem is that: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306651/Scotland-expects-Bank-England-bail-split-UK.html
and knowing this government they will probably let them get away with it.

Furor Teutonicus
April 10, 2013 at 12:59

Fucking BRILLIANT! Well said Anna!!!

SK April 10, 2013 at 12:45

No need to generalise. In every nation there are different kind of people
with different beliefs.

For the people who commented about Scotland and only saw oil as the main
benefit, i think you might have to look further and think about water.

SE cant have enough and wont have enough soon and Scotland is the only
solution.

Michael April 10, 2013 at 12:03

Street celebrations at a funeral? The Westboro Baptist Church would be
proud. Maybe the protesters (many too young to properly remember her
premiership) should knock up a few banners. I suggest, “God hates Mags”.

Mudplugger April 10, 2013 at 11:43

I really can’t understand why any sane Conservative would now want to keep
Scotland in the UK. The Lib-Dems at least have an excuse because of all those
woolly votes in the Highland & Islands. The Labour Party knows it can rely
on brain-dead votes, and thus MPs, to sustain its cunning devolution formula
of giving away power whilst retaining all their payroll-seats at Westminster
to counter the opposite nature of most English voters. But why any Tory group
would want to keep it, thus making any future majority far more difficult, if
not impossible, completely baffles me.

Add into the equation that the unspoken long-term plan to hand over
Northern Ireland to the Irish Republic is already running its course, it’s
just waiting for the predictable demographics to catch up in a decade or two,
then the concept of the four-nation United Kingdom is already dead in the
turbulent waters surrrounding it.

Scotland’s largely a beautiful place, enjoying stunning, unspoilt scenery
and some very smart, personable folk (although, if we’re honest, most of that
type have already left in the kilted diaspora). Sadly Scotland’s attractions
are now far outweighed by its evident downsides, only some of which feature in
Anna’s piece.

“Time to go”, said Zebedee.

Joe Public
April 10, 2013 at 11:59

“Scotland’s largely a beautiful place, enjoying stunning, unspoilt
scenery and some very smart, personable folk ”

“Unspoilt” scenery? With SNP policy of 100% renewables plan by
2020, there are already hundreds of Subsidy (wind) Farms blighting the
glens, so that also calls into question their alleged ‘smartness’ too.

Mudplugger
April 10, 2013 at 15:53

JP You may indeed be right – I’ve not been there post-windmill
nonsense. Another reason to cut adrift.

Ted Treen
April 10, 2013 at 21:38

“…there are already hundreds of Subsidy (wind) Farms blighting the
glens…”

You can bet your best sporran that would not be so if Jock Public were
footing the bill.

Ho Hum
April 11, 2013 at 18:48

That wouldn’t be because Scotland doesn’t really need them, would it,
being a net exporter of electricity to England?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/65841/7345-elec-gen-2008-2011-et-article.pdf

Ken Ferguson
April 10, 2013 at 11:41

As someone who has lived in various locations throughout the UK, I do agree
that there is a much stronger communitarian ethos in Scotland than there is in
England. Whether a few Socialist Worker idiots celebrating Thatcher’s death in
Glasgow is sufficient reason to cast them adrift is another matter.

Norway is one of the richest countries in the world and there is a strong
argument that, had Scotland been independent throughout the boom in North Sea
oil, it would be rich enough to indulge itself in whatever socialist fantasies
it wished. And I agree that if it still thinks such a future is viable it
should be able to choose it.

But don’t, for a moment, suppose that casting Scotland adrift would somehow
defeat, or even affect collectivism in England. I’m afraid we are too badly
infected already and nobody seems interested in looking for a vaccine.

Ho Hum April 10, 2013 at 13:23

‘I do agree that there is a much stronger communitarian ethos in Scotland
than there is in England.’

That was the primary problem. There were parts of Scotland which had been
true blue Tory for yonks, but she managed to breed a resentment to her
intentions by her use of language and a thinking that was totally alien to
the way most Scots perceived their culture, and what they thought was a good
and proper way of going about your dealings with your fellow men and women

The Tories certainly didn’t then get kicked of Scotland by the miners et
al. Industrialised Scotland was Labour through and through and, at the time,
likely to remain so as long as any one candidate could turn up with a red
rosette, any intellect, common sense and breadth of vision being unnecessary
extras. No, the Tories didn’t lose lost their rural heartlands of Northern
and Eastern Scotland etc by losing the votes of unreconstructed miners and
trades unionists – in those areas there were no pits or heavy industries. It
wasn’t by any underlying or inherent pro Labour partisanship either, as
almost all non urban local government was controlled and run by
Independents.

It was the perceived cultural divide she created, and her failure to
understand the implications, or willingness to ignore them, that alienated
her there.

Now, that said, Scots may have proved to be great scientists, engineers,
technological innovators and explorers, but the inbuilt authoritarianism
that Anna refers to makes them really useless as politicians, as they are
all too ready to impose their will on anyone else they can on the basis that
there is only right or wrong, and if they are right, everyone else must be
wrong and consequently, as they surely then need to be protected from
themselves, the only right and decent thing to do is to do whatever means is
necessary to achieve that, compulsorily if necessary. It’s one’s moral duty
to do others good

The logic is scientific in its precision, but it comes in packages where,
if the bearer has had a Presbetyrian, or worse still, a Calvanist
upbringing, it is all too often delivered with the underlying emotional
intellect of a brick, insofar as it completely ignores other people’s
positions and feelings and any shades of grey in terms of right or wrong,
but this is something which Scots have developed such thick skins to over
the years that they can happily ignore those, and even seem crass in their
ability to do such, but by which they will very readily upset the
sensitivities of their softer hearted counterparts elsewhere.

Of course, Mrs T’s approach to communitarianism, individualism and so on
(remember ‘there is no such thing as society’? – I know the context and full
quote, but that was the headline message most people absorbed), that could
readily be construed as being one in which she considered that only she was
right, but when you put that up against the thinking of an equally stubborn
group who saw themselves as having lived quite happily in a communitarian
spirit developed over centuries, she and the Tories north of the border were
bound to come to grief

Now, as for dispatching all Scots into some sort of outer darkness, while
I have no charge over the Scottish Economy, I trust that our hostess will,
in the light of a bright new day, see that doing so on the basis of a media
report highlighting a few latter day nitwits in George Square, while similar
activities are going on in balmy England, might not necessarily be a good
idea as, even if many Scots hold no real love for Mrs T, the twats cavoring
about on the streets are probably as unrepresentative of the majority in
their conduct as their counterpart loonies in Bristol and Brixton etc

If she should not feel like relenting, then if she could be as good as
remove Brixton from the map too, that would be helpful, as it would make
getting home easier. And, while in despatching mood, to ensure a measure of
equality in the process, she might also wish to remove for everyone’s
benefit that other self righteous group, who sound quite similar to most
Scots I grew up with, described as being those who ‘were frugal, reticent,
utterly self-reliant, and immensely aspirational. They were also suspicious
of progressive values, vulgarity of any kind, self-indulgence,
pretentiousness, and people who know best’. That would do us all good.

Lucozade
April 10, 2013 at 17:35

Ho Hum,

Re: “the twats cavoring about on the streets are probably as
unrepresentative of the majority in their conduct as their counterpart
loonies in Bristol and Brixton etc”

Now Glasgow has a population of 598,830, and only 300 have been
reported as celebrating Margarate Thatchers death on George Square, some
may well have just been passers by and someone organised it on Facebook
apparently….

Ted Treen
April 10, 2013 at 21:36

Whilst what you say may be true, I can confirm from my circle of
acquaintances (from all walks of life) that were a plebiscite held in
England over the matter of Scottish independence, said independence
would be approved by an overwhelming majority.

Maybe that’s the fault of a perceived cultural divide on the part of
the English.

Jeremy
Poynton April 10, 2013 at 13:56

Worth remembering that the reason Scotland joined the Union was that the
country was bankrupt. For most of the time since said Union, they have lived
off the teat of England. They owed us that oil, indeed, and we are still
subbing them hugely.

Lucozade
April 10, 2013 at 16:40

Re: “Worth remembering that the reason Scotland joined the Union was
that the country was bankrupt”

That was back in the early 18th centuary.

Re: “For most of the time since said Union, they have lived off the
teat of England”

How?

davidb April 10, 2013 at 17:13

Now that is a myth. The reason for the Union was that a handfull of
aristos with lands in both countries saw fit to sell their country in
return for their own debts being repaid. Think of it like a bank going
bankrupt but the price of bailing it out is that your country is handed
over to a richer foreign power. You only get a vote in the matter if you
are a creditor of the bank. Interest rates were not unduely high ( TC
Smout ) in Scotland at the time, so Darien didn’t bankrupt Scotland,
merely those investing in the venture.

Moor
Larkin April 10, 2013 at 11:37

My only thought is that we should not judge the Scottish people by their
apparent mouthpieces any more than we might judge the British people by
theirs…..

Moor
Larkin April 10, 2013 at 12:13

My other thought is that we are allowing not a lot of people, to have an
inordinate influence upon our political thinking:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/region/7.stm
Labour…………………….
1,035,528
Liberal Democrat…………. 465,471
Scottish National Party……………..
491,386
Conservative………….. 412,855
UK Independence Party……………….
17,223
Green………… 16,827
British National Party………………. 8,910
Trade
Unionist and Socialist Coalition………… 3,530
Scottish Socialist Party……………
3,157
Christian Party………………….. 835

Paul April 11, 2013 at 08:07

The Scottish people ARE British and will remain British even if they
leave the union. They will still be inhabitants of the British Isles or at
least have been born in the British Isles. I think what you meant was
ENGLISH, now it seems, a dirty word. You haven’t been indoctrinated have
you?

Moor Larkin April 11, 2013 at 08:58

@Paul

I can see that you have grasped the subtlety yourself, but failed to
credit me with the same capacity. We’re all pawns m’dear.

I believe the definition of who will be able to vote in the Referendum
is associated with all those who are normally resident in Scotland and so
are subject to paying the local taxes (Poll or otherwise). Thus there will
be many English, Irish and Welsh people eligible to vote (but will they do
so? Or honourably abstain) whilst many of those who probably view
themselves as Scottish but cycled to get a job in Kent in the 1980′s, will
be “disenfranchised” in any “racial” sense. You might just as well have a
referendum for Merseyside, as Davidb elsewhere has pointed out. Maybe, if
the Scots experiment is successful,, we will one day have fuller and
fuller Balkanisation. It seems to work for the Czechs so why not us.

Lucozade
April 11, 2013 at 12:07

Moor Larkin,

Some people have suggested that the whole north of the county (not
just Scotland), should become separate from the south of England (or
vice-versa), if at all….

Ed P April 10, 2013 at 11:35

As Gordon Brown did much, much more harm to this country than all the good
that Mrs. Thatcher did, I beg to differ: I will be dancing with joy when he
snuffs it.

Chris Morriss
April 10, 2013 at 18:52

I’ll be tempted to do that as well, though the real jubilation for me (if
I’m still around), will be for when the mendacious war criminal Blair
finally gets taken away screaming by the denizens of the dungeon
dimensions.

Den April 10, 2013 at 11:27

In any case I’ve been fed up with them for ages. Send ‘em packing and
re-build Hadrian’s wall a hundred feet high. And share the gas and oil in
proportion to population of countries involved – they’d all have apoplexy.
Most of my observations of the Scots have been in London pubs where peace and
quiet was interrupted by Glaswegian drunks fighting anyone with an English
accent. Oh, and the only time I have been racially abused was in Glasgow on
account of an English accent. They are beyond the pale.

me April 10, 2013 at 11:40

I may, or may not, have been “racially abused” in Glasgow, during my few
visits there I have been unable to understand what anyone was saying.

Den April 10, 2013 at 11:51

Good one, well played.

D.

Jeremy
Poynton April 10, 2013 at 13:55

My father-in-law, an born and bred Socialist of the old school, a quiet
man and a lovely man, served in the Navy all over the world in WWII. Not a
man to speak ill of anyone, he made an exception for the Scots, who, he
noted, were always the ones who started bar room brawls when in port.

Yes, build the wall, and send in the White Walkers. Winter is coming … to
Scotland.

Anna
Raccoon April 10, 2013 at 14:04

Another Game of Thrones fan I see!

Ted Treen April 10, 2013 at 20:50

It was once said that modern day Scots are proof that the Vikings used to
shag the Highland Cattle.

Alright, it was said by me. In 1979. In a hotel bar in Aberdeen. Not one
of my wiser actions…

TheNoseyMole
April 13, 2013 at 20:10

It was also said of the native americans and the buffalo….

Moor Larkin April 13, 2013 at 20:36

Now I knows why them thar Injuns wuz called Braves……………..

Duncan Disorderly
April 10, 2013 at 11:22

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but who has ever marooned an
undisciplined dog in an inhospitable land?

“Rufus, if you bark like that at the postman again, I will maroon the hell
out of you in an inhospitable land!”

“A child has been taken to hospital after a dog attack, and is in a serious
but stable condition. The dog was marooned in an inhospitable land by
police.”

martin April 11, 2013 at 00:04

I once policed an inhospitable dog in a marooned land.