Ooh, that Richard Littlejohn is a terrible man, and the Daily Mail, dreadful paper! Why just three months ago, he was demanding that young children be protected from the full onslaught of adult sexuality, as they were ‘too young to deal with it’.

“The school shouldn’t be allowed to elevate its ‘commitment to diversity and equality’ above its duty of care to its pupils and their parents.

It should be protecting pupils from some of the more, er, challenging realities of adult life, not forcing them down their throats.

These are primary school children, for heaven’s sake. Most them still believe in Father Christmas. Let them enjoy their childhood. They will lose their innocence soon enough.”

What hateful sentiments, how dare he seek to protect young children! 3 months, almost to the day, later, it was being claimed that Richard Littlejohn, in the course of his earlier article, had ‘outed’ Lucy Meadows as ‘trangendered’ and thus ‘monstered her’. There is an on-line petition at ‘SumofUs’ which fights for ‘people over profits’ to fire him from his job, which has now collected near a quarter of a million signatures designed to hound Littlejohn from his job.

For suggesting that the school that employed Lucy Meadows should put the mental welfare of its young children ahead of its duty to diversity and equality? Surely not. I forgot, he also made the terrible error of referring to Lucy as ‘he’.

As it happens, Littlejohn didn’t ‘out Lucy Meadows’. The school did that in a letter to all its parents blandly stating that:

A primary school has written to parents to explain that a male teacher will be returning after Christmas as a woman.

St Mary Magdalen’s School in Accrington have asked pupils to address Nathan Upton as Miss Meadows from the start of the Spring term.

Karen Hardman, the headteacher at the Church of England school, said Mr Upton, who will also be dressing as a woman, has her full support.

Mr Upton has asked for his privacy to be respected, saying it had not been an easy decision to make.

Looks as though the school is also referring to Lucy Meadows as he too, without any campaign to sack the journalist responsible or the head teacher concerned? The day after that article was published, Richard Littlejohn wrote his piece suggesting that perhaps the teacher concerned (and the school, in my opinion) might serve seven year olds better by not asking them to confront full-on the confusing aspects of trangenderisim. At no point in the article did he condemn those who feel the need to reorientate their sexuality – he merely felt that asking seven-year olds to cope with Mr Upton becoming Miss Meadows ‘overnight’ in their eyes was asking too much.

“Why should they be forced to deal with the news that a male teacher they have always known as Mr Upton will henceforth be a woman called Miss Meadows?”

“Nathan Upton is entitled to his gender reassignment surgery, but he isn’t entitled to project his personal problems on to impressionable young children.

By insisting on returning to St Mary Magdalen’s, he is putting his own selfish needs ahead of the well-being of the children he has taught for the past few years.

It would have been easy for him to disappear quietly at Christmas, have the operation and then return to work as ‘Miss Meadows’ at another school on the other side of town in September. No-one would have been any the wiser.

But if he cares so little for the sensibilities of the children he is paid to teach, he’s not only trapped in the wrong body, he’s in the wrong job.”

This was akin to stealing an egg from a broody hen to the trangendered community, who puffed up their feathers and screeched with one voice ‘we’re being monstered, victimised, we’re vulnerable’ and the rest of the lexicon from the approved book of ‘Outraged Community’.

Three months after this article, sadly Lucy Meadows decided to take her own life. It appears it was not the first time she had made this decision, just the first time she had been successful.  Last Wednesday the inquest opened with the Coroner saying:

I understand there have been previous attempts to commit suicide. I don’t know if they are relevant or not.

There are shades of Jacintha Saldana here, the nurse whose suicide was popularly believed to have been as a result of ‘hounding’ by pranksters who had asked her to put a call through to another nurse…she also was found to have made previous suicide attempts, but not before her death was used by those left leaning celebrities who would like to see the death of every right wing newspaper…

As it happens, the Daily Mail has been remarkably consistent in its support of transgenderism, possibly as a result of one of Richard Littlejohn’s past Daily Mail colleagues, ‘John Ozimek’, having successfully made the transition to ‘Jane Fae’ resulting in several sympathetic articles appearing in the Daily Mail. I count Jane Fae as a friend of mine, and I am in awe of the manner in which he has managed to hold together his extended family during spectacularly difficult and traumatic times. I know from my many conversations with Jane just what a fraught and frightening journey it is to make. I also know that it is not all that goes on in a person’s life.

Though it might surprise some of the more vocal activists, people undergoing treatment for transsexuality, also have difficulty paying their gas bill, rows with their ex-mother-in-law, partners that develop cancer, investments that suddenly lose money, disappointment in crucial exams, mental health problems, in fact the full panoply of traumas that afflict the rest of us.

There might be an argument that runs along the lines of ‘those who have made two previous suicide attacks should have that fact tattooed on their forehead’ so that everyone would know not to involve them in practical jokes, or dare to refer to them as ‘he’ when they are still legally ‘he’ and even their own school refers to them as ‘he’ – for fear that they will find themselves hounded out of a job by a baying crowd.

For when it comes to ‘hounding’ – what do the 250,000 who wish to hound Littlejohn out of a job know about his mental health? What did the thousands who wished to hound Jan Muir out of a job know about her mental health? Should, God forbid, Litteljohn suddenly be discovered swinging high in the cherry tree, what would be their defence for having ‘hounded’ him – Oh! He called Lucy ‘he’; he deserved to die?

Apparently hounding, true hounding, where thousands of outraged twitter moral activists describe someone as ‘vile and hateful’ and demand that they lose their employment is perfectly acceptable, where correctly reporting the comments of parents at a school who are concerned for the well being of their child is not.

Is it any accident that both Jan Muir and Richard Littlejohn work for the Daily Mail, the most successful on-line right wing newspaper? Is it any accident that the petition is raised by an organisation that declares itself ‘for people not profits’, a left wing campaigning organisation.

Do any of these shrill activists actually care about Jacintha Saldana’s family now she has ceased to be a stick to berate the right wing press. Do any care about Lucy Meadow’s family? Possibly about as much as they care for the well being of the original Duncroft girls now that they have had their fun whacking the BBC over the head with the Savile story.

It is a spectacularly ugly politics that is being played out in the media right now; no credit to the United Kingdom at all.

Jonathan Mason
March 30, 2013 at 13:48

I find it interesting that the most common comment on this case that you
will find in The Guardian is that “this should never have been commented on in
a national newspaper, as it was a purely local and personal matter.

And yet the furore over the Burchill article a few weeks ago shows that
there is apparently a great deal of public interest in matters pertaining to
sex changes.

The Daily Mail is a very prolific newspaper and Web site that handles a
huge number of stories, some very well and others atrociously, but its real
game is just the sheer number of stories.

A recent story concerns the birth of a baby of 15 1/2 pounds, two weeks
late, by natural childbirth, when the mother had no idea she was expecting an
extra large child. The child was born blue and not breathing and only achieved
a heartbeat after prolonged CPR. Whether he will have permanent deficits is a
moot point.

Online discussion focuses mainly on whether the child is cute or not, and
yet to me this ought to be a massive story, bigger than the sex change
suicide, about the desperately poor quality of prenatal care available in the
UK. At no point, even though the baby was overdue was a sonogram or
ultrasound scan ever performed and apparently no consideration was given to a
Cesarian section. As a result the baby nearly died.

My own baby is 6 months old and was born here in the Dominican Republic, a
third world country. She had a sonogram done with a portable ultrasound
machine at EACH prenatal visit (several times) as well as one full scale
ultrasound that was not covered by insurance for which we paid $50 cash and
got the full CD with color film of the moving baby, measurements, estimated
weight, and so on. My wife’s health insurance costs about $30 per month.
Because of a lack of amniotic fluid when she went into labour, the baby was
delivered by C-section and she is perfect.

Quite frankly, I would be scared to take my wife to the UK if she was
pregnant. Even Haiti would be better.

This appalling prenatal care in the NHS (relative to other countries) is,
in my mind, a MUCH more serious issue than anything to do with sex change
operations for teachers, yet hardly gets a mention from anyone in either the
Mail or the Guardian

Ho Hum March 30, 2013 at 14:37

Absolutely shocking. According to WHO there are 25 deaths pre 5 years of
age per 1000 live births in the Dominican Republic but only 5 in the UK.
Maybe you should contact the Mail and tell them that as the DR pre natal
care is so good, maybe it would do a national service to use this story as a
base to show that UK pre natal care must be killing thousands before birth
to make that sort of difference. And as WHO is surprised at how little DR
maternalortality rates have improved, there may be a hidden scandal awaiting
us here.

It seems a bit surprising though that the CBS.article on this birth
quoted medics there as saying there wasn’t too much that was unusual about
big babies not being identified, given the limits of the technology
available, but then, what do they know in comparison to the Mails expert
opinion?

Jonathan
Mason March 30, 2013 at 15:09

From the CBS article: “George was held in the hospital for 4.5 weeks
for observation, and now is going for regular check-ups. An MRI scan
revealed that he would not have any major problems from the lack of
oxygen, but he may have some learning disabilities, Packer explained.”

“Learning difficulties” means that the baby may be mentally retarded.
Oh well, no biggie!

Also note the readers’ comments beneath the CBS article. Ultrasound
scans may not be quite accurate for determining weight, but NO SCAN was
done even though the baby was 2 weeks overdue, and the baby was DOUBLE the
normal weight and two feet long. A scan using techniques like measuring
the length of the femur would not be THAT far off.

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 18:02

I didn’t want to get into this unduly, but so far I’ve had people
directly misquote what I wrote, and now you implying that I think that
the outcome here is no big deal, and I’m not standing for that

You may or may not have noticed that above I noted that newspaper
articles on disabilities, and the impact they have, some might say they
are designed to have, are often suspect in that, as I wrote, ‘You merely
need to look at the sort of comments made BTL in almost any newspaper
article that relates to disabilities, particularly those that you have
any personal knowledge of whatsoever, to see how ignorantly rabid that
mob can be’

I can say that as a result of real practical experience. One of my
children has a serious disability that actually did result from an
unfortunate birthing. They too arrived overdue, suffered oxygen
deprivation on birth and had to be extracted by emergency Caesarean.
Since then we have gone through almost the whole range of trials that
parents with such children can face, including battles with the Local
Education services, schooling on a residential care basis from age 5 and
so on. We have seen the sort of family purgatory that others in similar,
and worse, situations go through too, to the extent that it seriously
irritates me when I see some hack produce a load of facile inflammatory
tosh from which the simpleminded can both voice their inherent
prejudices and also demonstrate the stupidity that comes from, and
sometimes frighteningly even without, ignorance.

But with regard to this specific topic, our pre-natal care was
exemplary. Sure, there was no post due date scan. But then we knew
enough to know that that wasn’t unusual, nor was any other aspect of the
pre-natal care. It does help a bit in dealing with this, that we
actually did understand enough to know a bit better. My wife was a
senior exec at the hospital, such that when the consultant popped his
head in during the Cesarean, they were on first name terms – much, I
vividly remember, to the consternation of the two blokes doing the
procedure! – I was so at another, and, while the junior staff dealing
with us at the time wouldn’t have known that, if we had been getting any
BS or second rate care you could be sure we would have said so. Nothing
was out of the ordinary.

What I take exception to in your thesis is the extrapolation from
summary details in a tabloid, that is renowned for its poor presentation
of technical issues, which may or may not be a full picture of
everything that was involved, to the conclusion that this somehow
supports your assertion that ‘yet to me this ought to be a massive
story, bigger than the sex change suicide, about the desperately poor
quality of prenatal care available in the UK’. Being blunt, it doesn’t.

And if you really want to argue an extrapolation from a history of
one, well, I’ll put up mine and they can cancel out

Look, by all means, enjoy your child’s growing up, it goes faster
than you ever expect. I also trust that you’ll bring them up well and
have a lot of fun. Most of all, I hope that, as one who has really been
there and done that, you don’t have anything like the experience we had.
Our outcome so far has been at the better end of the scale, relative to
the range of possibilities as to what might have happened, but you don’t
ever want to go through the worst of the first 10 years or so we had,
never ever being sure where it would all end up.

I also hope that you can in future see things a bit more more
broadly, and realistically, than though the blinkers of any tabloid
inspired peurile idealism

Jonathan
Mason March 30, 2013 at 19:43

I’m sorry about your child. That must have been very hard, and it
was certainly my greatest fear when my daughter was born that we would
have that type of result.

However, I worked in the health system in the USA for many years,
and in that country if a baby suffered oxygen deprivation at birth,
was overweight and overdue, and no scans had been done to determine
the size of the baby and whether a Cesarian was needed, the insurance
company that represented the doctors would undoubtedly settle out of
court because they would not be able to put up a defense that accepted
professional standards of care were followed.

I agree that the Daily Mail is not always an accurate source of
information, but if a 50-year-old technology that is cheap,portable,
and harmless is still not widely available in the UK health system,
then that is a scandal worthy of a lot of press attention.

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 22:39

Jonathan

A serious question, if I may? Are your origins American? Let me
hasten to add, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it might
help me understand better where you are coming from on this, as well
as well as some of your other comments

Jonathan
Mason March 31, 2013 at 02:06

@Ho

No, I was born in London and grew up in Yorkshire and worked for
the NHS in Leeds. I lived in the US for about 20 years. Also lived for
more than a decade in Bermuda. Living the last few years in the
Dominican Republic and rarely speak English any more.

Ho Hum
April 1, 2013 at 10:37

Thanks Jonathan

I guess part of the difference on our approaches is perceptional,
probably based on our differing experience

The UK has, based on the last main study, the most efficient
healthcare system in the developed world, something its detractors
often overlook, when you take into account a whole range of factors,
but probably most important in this instance in a comparison to the US
system, the costs of insurance and administration. We just don’t do
defensive medicine in the same way, and as a result don’t do what are
considered to be unnecessary procedures and treatments, to satisfy the
demands of insurers

That doesn’t mean we don’t have incentives to provide quality care,
as the NHSLA’s criteria, (the NHSLA is the NHS equivalent of a risk
pooling system) are really tough to meet and woe betide you if you
don’t make them. (As an aside, it’s also a myth that senior people
don’t get into deep doo doo when things don’t go well. The real
turnover at the top is not always too obvious and is often quite
brutal, it’s just handled quietly. I have personally seen someone at
CEO level turn up in the morning and be gone, out of the door, never
to return, by lunchtime. Seriously! – and I knew it was going to
happen too, and they didn’t.) To the same end, care pathways are
continually being developed and NICE provides clarity as to what is
and is not effective treatment. HRG measures, ie comparative financial
efficiency measures highlights outliers for at least investigation and
at best action to improve

None of this here, or anywhere, provides for perfection, as this
case demonstrates, but again, the extrapolation from it alone to some
determination that it somehow consequently proves that related UK
healthcare is cloaking some sort of underlying scandal is void

Jonathan
Mason April 1, 2013 at 15:43

@Ho

Yes, defensive medicine can be overdone in the US, (about 30% of
deliveries are Cesarian in the US, which seems very high) but I think
all medicine is in a sense defensive, i.e. aimed at eliminating things
that might go wrong. For example a whole series of tests are done in
any country to make sure the mother does not have syphilis, HIV,
diabetes, rubella, Hepatitis B or C, anaemia, blood pressure problems,
Down syndrome, inherited conditions, and a variety of other conditions
that may affect the outcomes of pregnancy. In certain populations
other tests like sickle cell have to be done too. It would be
interesting to know what the NHS regards as the standard for
identifying babies that are above normal size.

Ho Hum
April 1, 2013 at 16:14

‘all medicine is in a sense defensive, i.e. aimed at eliminating
things that might go wrong’

Jonathan, this is probably now getting a bit pointless, as the next
logical step would be to argue that we are now straying into
preventive medicine, which is not actually the same as defensive
medicine, particularly with reference to the use of either term in
circumstances such as this, and I doubt if we’d agree as to what falls
more generally within which either. Let’s call it quits there

Whatever, if either, or even both of us, is aiming to live forever
as a result of the efforts of the medical, nursing or allied
professions, we’re going to be mighty disappointed

Jabba the Cat March 30, 2013 at 11:59

I just wonder what sort of message adults expect to send to children in
their most influential formative years with teacher being dressed as a man one
day, presumably addressed as ‘sir’, and then turning up the next, so to speak,
dressed as a woman and being addressed as ‘miss’? Kiddie head fuck comes to
mind…

miss mildred
March 30, 2013 at 10:42

This issue has touched off a lively and sometimes acrimonious discussion.
Probably because it involves children and a sexual matter. I do not know if we
know how far down the process of transition this teacher had gone. Surgeons
want those seeking surgery to live as the gender they want to be for some time
before surgery is done. The hormones to switch gender would be given some time
before. It may be very uncomfortable to take on board those hormones and get
used to them in your system. Does the person then reveal themselves as
involved in a sex change process to a school full of young children? How is it
done? Are there too many rules against a request to change schools after a
break to consolidate the change and feel at ease with it? Maybe it was
suggested and turned down. Everyone is possibly in their own shell, protecting
their own interests, communication goes haywire. The rest is history….all very
sad and tragic. Once again the MSM might have blood on their hands for
parading an issue that should have remained in the local rag.

Jonathan Mason
March 30, 2013 at 11:49

The whole thing is very disturbing and yet surely it can be discussed in
a public forum, because we are talking about something that concerned a
government school, or at least a Church of England school run by the local
authorities. I wonder if it would be different if it were a private school.
What happened here may influence how these matters are handled in the future
in state schools.

Incidentally, the press criticism might have been a lot worse. From the
Bolton News Report “Parents said their children had been told by Mr Upton
that he had been born with a girl’s brain in a boy’s body.”. No mention of
the fact that he had married and had two children. One is forced to wonder
was he upfront with his wife and her family about his birth situation at the
time of this marriage–but that truly is a private matter and not a question
of public policy.

Lucozade March 30, 2013 at 09:09

Re: “It should be protecting pupils from some of the more, er, challenging
realities of adult life, not forcing them down their throats”

And were wound he and the parents stand on this kid?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2227381/At-16-girl-youngest-world-life-changing-operation-guess-was.html

Demelza March 30, 2013 at 09:08

Well, Littlejohn’s article is a rallying point but, from what I’ve heard
and read elsewhere by those who’d been contacted by Lucy, the distress was
primarily down to being pursued by “the press pack”. That they took a
communication from the school to its parents, and turned it into a national
story. That, during the initial burst of the story, they contacted her pupils’
parent, seeking out the one or two who were unhappy in order to turn the
spotlight on them. That she never knew when there would be a photographer
lurking, and where the pictures might appear.
Those who follow the path of
gender transition are usually desperate before they start, often suicidal. And
the transition will cost dearly: staying in the same house, the same marriage,
the same family relationships and friendships, the same job and staying
solvent at all…happens in some cases, but rarely. So Lucy Meadows was trying
to muddle her way through transition, safeguaring her income, and a national
paper decides to put her under a huge spotlight for, apparently, no reason
other than to entertain and outrage its readers. Her transition went from a
low-key local matter to a high profile national matter not because it was in
the public interest, but because it might be considered of interest to the
public.
And that is why I condemn the Daily Mail.

Anna
Raccoon March 30, 2013 at 09:18

Do you condemn the Daily Mail for its sensitive and informative
interviews with ex-Daily Mail writer Jane Fae and her family also?

Ho Hum March 30, 2013 at 18:12

Absolutely not at all, but don’t the press have this habit of looking
after ‘their own’, while being the devils who will then still take the
hindmost?

Lucozade March 30, 2013 at 10:03

Demelza,

Re “Her transition went from a low-key local matter to a high profile
national matter not because it was in the public interest, but because it
might be considered of interest to the public”

You have to wonder if as many people would feel ‘disturbed’ by it if the
idea hadn’t been planted that the ought to be?

I understand that initially, it would probably be quite a surprise or
even shock to the younger children, but they may well have got used to it
quickly and especially if they’d had it explained to them properly
first.

It wouldn’t nessiserliy be a completely negative thing either, it would
help kids like Caroline Kinsey http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107085/Caroline-Kinsey-lived-man-41-years-parents-didnt-tell-shes-hermaphrodite.html,
Adeleh Deane http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2109384/Ive-changed-gender-times-Young-woman-reveals-she-intersex-28.html
or those with parents, grandparents, brothers or sisters in that position
feel less alone and more confident about themselves as well as encouraging
the other children’s attitudes to be more accepting and supportive of people
with differences.

So there may be a down side, but I don’t think that downside would have
to be insurmountable and there could also maybe be some positive aspects of
having someone like Lucy as a teacher….

Lucozade March 30, 2013 at 08:52

Jon Danzig,

It’s obvious some parents are just never happy unless they are having a
moan and are always on the look out for an excuse to have one.

I bet the parents were more disturbed by the sex change than the kids
were….

Jon Danzig
March 29, 2013 at 21:01

It seems to me that some UK media aren’t equipped to compute serious
issues, especially anything to do with sex. When it comes to sex, gender and
sexuality, some of our tabloid newspapers continue to display a prurient,
voyeuristic, immature, prejudiced, sniggering attitude. This is surely much
more damaging and poisoning to children’s minds, and the future adults that
they will become.

My blog about this: ‘UK media needs a sex change’ http://goo.gl/xdJBd

Elena ‘andcart
March 29, 2013 at 19:28

Do we actually have to talk about this? Would it not just be better to get
on with who we think we are without making a song and dance of it?
I think
I am a Shape Shifting Alien. No, really, I do. I am having a bit of bother
with Shape Shifting at the moment, but I am working on that. But there was
never any doubt that I am an Alien. However, talking about it does me no good
at all because those who don’t already think that I am crackers will certainly
do so if word ever becomes common knowledge.

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 20:11

However, if you did change shape, you might want to let your friends have
a little missive to explain why, before they saw the two heads and the tail?
And want to bet that the Mail, the Sun and the Mirror wouldn’t also tell
millions of people, whose business it really isn’t?

Mark in Mayenne
March 29, 2013 at 18:14

Kids always eventually learn that you have to kill the cute piggy to get
the bacon. It’s traumatic but it’s part of life. I’m not sure any harm was
done by a bland announcement that Mr is now Miss, in a very “so what” kind of
way. And I don’t think any harm was done in expressing an opinion that harm
*might* have been done, either.

Jonathan Mason
March 29, 2013 at 18:41

I don’t know. When I was a child, or even a teen, or even an adult, I
don’t think I knew that such a thing was possible, and quite possibly it
would be profoundly disturbing for a young child who might have nightmares
about having his own penis surgically removed.

OK, you will say, young children do not need to be told about the
surgery, but there are family members and older siblings and these kind of
things leak out anyway. They cannot be controlled.

When I was a kid, I did not know anything about adult affairs, and really
didn’t want to know. I was interested in cricket, football, fishing, pets,
cycling, being an Olympic athlete, cowboys and indians, and all that
stuff.

I know my four year old step daughter loves her female teachers and gives
them a hug and kiss at the beginning and end of the school day, but I think
she would be a bit disturbed if she returns to school on Monday after the
Easter break to find that her class teacher has returned with a beard and
deep voice, and traded her skirt for trousers and now has a completely
different name. It would give me nightmares anyway.

Lucozade
March 29, 2013 at 21:47

Jonathan Mason,

Re: “but I think she would be a bit disturbed if she returns to school
on Monday after the Easter break to find that her class teacher has
returned with a beard and deep voice, and traded her skirt for trousers
and now has a completely different name. It would give me nightmares
anyway”

Is that not why the school sent a letter out? To give parents a chance
to explain to the kids?

If this man/woman was a primary teacher do we know what class/age group
he/she took?

When I was 9 a man where I lived had a sex change and it was advertised
in the local paper, he worked in a local shop so people came into contact
with him daily. He was a dad and had grand children younger than I was.

Everyone knew about it, when a 7 year old girl came to visit us, seen
him/her and said “that woman has hands like shovels” we thought nothing of
telling her “she used to be a man – shes had a sex change”. I never
noticed anyone acting disturbed, though the man/woman in question probably
did become the butt of a few jokes, which is a shame, so from that point
of view i’m not sure being a primary teacher is the probably the best job
for someone in this position.

When you were a boy sex changes were a lot lot rarer – so you would
have been more grossed out by it, but these days they are far more common
I dare say every village has one and every town has a few. How do you keep
kids blind to the fact that Mr Jones who works in the local news agents
has become Miss Jones?

Shaftmonde March 29, 2013 at 16:51

Far from seeking to control online pornography, governments would be better
employed by heeding the current trend towards ochlocracy; by which I mean the
mob rule of various campaigning social groups, having an axe to grind, and
demanding that their ideas be enshrined in law.
Let them have their say by
all means, but let’s have the backbone to ignore them.
All too often they
will find an amenable spineless politician to serve their purpose.

Lucozade March 29, 2013 at 17:02

Shaftmonde,

True….

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 20:17

Absolutely spot on. But can you find me any politician these days who has
a backbone, or whose ‘moral stance’ can’t be bought? They are no better than
Pontius Pilate, who knew better, but still sold out for the sake of
popularity, peace and quiet……..

Ted Treen March 29, 2013 at 23:40

It’s always the same. To a politician, a vociferous minority ALWAYS
outweighs a quiet majority.

Please don’t get me started on their sneering condemnation of
“populism”.

Do they understand the meaning of the word “Democracy”?

Not that we have experienced effective democracy in the UK – the
establishment would never permit it.

Ho Hum March 30, 2013 at 00:48

Some Germans found populist democracy an absolute shtik in the
1930s………

Ted Treen
March 30, 2013 at 01:54

Vielleicht, mein Freund..
..but Adolf and his mob hijacked a
democratic process, and his rise to power certainly wasn’t as a result
of populist approval, any more that Joe Stalin’s was.

Admittedly in the latter part of the ’30s, there was a populist
approval:- Germany was strong. Germany was respected. etc. etc. The
poverty & inflation of the Weimar Republic was a thing of the past –
as was being the pariah of Europe, post 1918. This is not so different
to our own state-dependents consistently voting for Blair & Co.,
because it offers them more “bread & circuses” on a regular basis.
“Herr Schmidt of 1938″ would have taken the same “pragmatic” approach as
our Jeremy Kyle watchers – I’m better off so I do not care about
Kristallnacht, or Nacht der langen Messer – besides, the SA were gutter
thugs anyway…”

There were

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 02:25

Er, in 1933 43% of the vote on an 88% turnout wasn’t populist
approval? Any UK party would give its eye teeth for those figures.

And weren’t those same popular politicians the masters at
denigrating and persecuting minority groups who weren’t People Like
Us? To the point where the people who believed their diatribe casually
euthanised the mentally ill and the disabled, killed the Romanies,
imprisoned those that disagreed with them and exterminated almost an
entire generation of Judaic people? And it had a sort of what might
now be Mummysnet with millions of members, youth leagues and so on. Go
on, it wasn’t a populist movement at all, was it?

Now about those unfortunate enough to be part of the transgendered
minority, bottom line, are you with Niemöller, or not?

JuliaM March 30, 2013 at 07:06

“Now about those unfortunate enough to be part of the
transgendered minority, bottom line, are you with Niemöller, or
not?”

Ah, Neimoller. Tell me, then, Ho Hum, who is it you think is
‘coming for the transgenders’?

Jonathan Mason
March 29, 2013 at 14:46

We really don’t know why this young person committed suicide, but
ostensibly you would think the change of gender would mark the happiest time
of his or her life, having suffered with the mismatch of personality and body
for so long. One has to have a sneaking suspicion that he/she found that the
joy of sex change was not all it was cracked up to be.

Of course you can put it down to mental illness, depression, etc. but I
wonder how legitimate it is to divorce lowered or elevated mood from the way
the personality interacts with the physical and human environment. Depression
is not quite an exogenous condition like measles or the Plague.

I worked with mentally ill people for many, many years. One of the original
reasons I got into psychiatry (probably the main one) was that I wanted to
understand human behaviour better, but after 30 years I was somewhat
disillusioned by the fact that psychiatry finds human behaviour largely
meaningless.

One kills oneself or others because biochemicals in the brain are not
working properly. If this view is correct, then life and morality are largely
meaningless, and people who commit great crimes have to be divided into those
who are innocent by means of mental illness and those who are just evil, but
if they are sufficiently evil, then they are practically insane by definition.
When people commit suicide, it is just a meaningless biochemical event for the
most part, unless there is a clear and rational motive, such as leaving life
insurance money for the family.

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 20:21

Maybe there is nothing totally irrational in wanting to be rid of the
attentions of the Mail, the tabloids and the mobs they can foment?

Engineer
March 29, 2013 at 20:53

There is a danger in statements like “wanting to be rid of the Mail,
the tabloids and the mobs they can foment”. The tabloids reflect free
speech – they may not accord with your opinions or mine, but they do
reflect that of many people. They do not foment mobs, they allow opinion
to be expressed. Supressing free speech may lead to something much
nastier.

Ho Hum
March 29, 2013 at 22:09

‘Wanting to be rid of the attentions of’ is not the same as ‘wanting
to be rid of’. Would you feel quite as blase about things if they picked
on you? Especially for something such as just trying to be yourself?

I should like there to be unfettered freedom of speech. I just don’t
trust everyone to use it constructively, or kindly, or with the basic
humanity with which I trust we would all hope for.

And the tabloids are amongst the worst for doing to others what they
wouldn’t do to themselves. Or has Private Eye (not that you can at all
believe absolutely everything that appears there) just been lying to us
absolutely consistently about that for the last 30 to 40 years or
so?

Lucozade
March 30, 2013 at 00:18

Ho Hum,

Re: “Would you feel quite as blase about things if they picked on
you? Especially for something such as just trying to be yourself?

I should like there to be unfettered freedom of speech. I just
don’t trust everyone to use it constructively, or kindly, or with the
basic humanity with which I trust we would all hope for.

And the tabloids are amongst the worst for doing to others what
they wouldn’t do to themselves”

Totally agree.

Jonathan
Mason March 29, 2013 at 21:03

But is there any evidence that he/she was pursued by mobs? Her
complaint to the Press Council seems to have been about the fact that she
was harassed by paparazzi who wanted photos. Also interesting to note that
apparently there were prior suicide attempts (but when?) and that he/she
was formerly married to a woman, who was the person who found the body. No
reports of cause of death, or whether there was a suicide note. Indeed it
is only a supposition that it was suicide, although one imagines that is
probably a true one. One report says police are not treating death as
suspicious.

This article appears to have preceded the Daily Mail article and the
comments include some critical views.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/northwest/10116784._Sir__will_become__Miss__at_Accrington_school/

Jonathan
Mason March 29, 2013 at 21:15

This is a quotation of one of the comments on the Bolton News
story.

I am a Parent with 2 children who attend the school.
I have
complained regarding the issue as my children are both very confused
about the issue. I was the one answering all their questions they had
not the school.
Everyone is going on about what is best for Mr
Upton/Miss Meadows, what about what is best for the children.
I am
not against what people do in their private life but this has been
impacted on parents and children. Please bare in mind the parents had no
say in whether there children were told. Children from the age of 4
years were told so yes infants were included too, are these children
supposed to understand this I do not think so.
As for me being an
idiot, bigot etc. No I am a concerned parent which I HAVE A RIGHT TO
BE!.
I complained through the right channels though
instead.
Everyone is good luck to him, what about the children it
could affect, those that dont understand what will it do to their
education?
Yes he is a good teacher that I cannot fault him for in
any way. This should have been handled differently thats all I am
saying.

So we see that all the Daily Mail did was to pick up a local story
and run it in a national daily, giving voice to the concerns of at least
one parent. Surely this is a legitimate thing to do with a story of
public interest. The outcome is most unfortunate, and obviously not what
anyone would have wished for, but is it better to suppress such stories
altogether?

Ho Hum
March 29, 2013 at 23:01

OK OK, I’ve looked into this further and I must have been wrong all
the way along. Let me give up gracefully, and, after this, say no
more. The Lancashire Evening Telegraph is staffed by saints, the first
Daily Mail article is to be taken at its literal face value, it didn’t
blow its dog whistle, its target demographic didn’t bark, and there
was no absolutely no mob of any kind whatsoever hounding this person,
made up of members of the press, parents or otherwise.

See, even, I presume, Littlejohn’s friend (or is it Anna’s? The
lack of possible quotataion marks makes it unclear)….. ‘I count Jane
Fae as a friend of mine’.. says so

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/03/press-regulation-freedom-speech-and-death-lucy-meadows

Joe Public
March 29, 2013 at 21:44

“When people commit suicide, it is just a meaningless biochemical event
for the most part, unless there is a clear and rational motive, such as
leaving life insurance money for the family.”

Or, they’re seeking 72 virgins.

Ted Treen
March 29, 2013 at 23:36

If they’re seeking 72 virgins, why the recent spate of bombs in the
Y-fronts?

It must be a bit of a bummer to arrive in heaven, be presented with 72
virgins and then realise you’ve just blown your appendage off…

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 00:40

It’s actually something that is quite unusual, in that it both makes
perfect sense to, and also absolutely no sense at all to, people who
have the common characteristic of being dickheads

Ted Treen
March 30, 2013 at 01:05

Lucozade March 29, 2013 at 14:34

“The school shouldn’t be allowed to elevate its ‘commitment to diversity
and equality’ above its duty of care to its pupils and their parents”

I disagree with that. I knew of an old man who had a sex change when I was
a kid. These people are part of the real world like it or not. They could be
someones dad, granddad, son, brother, uncle, cousin, grandson, daughter,
sister, aunt etc. Some kids might know people like that in their
families….

I think schools should be encouraging tolerance and discouraging prejudice
towards people who haven’t harmed anyone else. I’ve actually read stories in
the daily mail of children themselves that have considered themselves
‘transgender’ (i’m not sure about the reality of that, but thats how they
claim to feel), it is true though that some individuals are born with neither
male organs or female or organs or sometimes both – so this is not just an
issue that only effects people over a certain and it would not be good for
someone suffering from something like that to feel ostracized because of it or
like the have to be ashamed.

I think schools should be encouraging people to be tolerant and respectful
of other people and their differences (provided they are not trying to harm
anyone), not to be ignorant of the world around them – or they could very well
grow into ignorant adults….

Ted Treen March 29, 2013 at 23:31

If only the left were “encouraging tolerance and discouraging prejudice
towards people who haven’t harmed anyone else.” That really would be
something to write about. However, their usual modus operandi is heaping
diatribes of execrable excoriation upon anyone who has the outrageous
temerity to hold opinions differing to theirs.

Chris Barratt’s earlier reference to “Littlecock” is part & parcel of
the same approach:- verbally abuse, disrespect and vilify the messenger in
order to taint the message itself. The mob, left supporters who have been
bought with other people’s money, will often follow the lead of their
paymasters so the largesse will continue, freeing them from the intolerable
burden of having to rely upon their own efforts and abilities and take
responsibility for their own lives and well-being.

Obviously, trifles such as leaving their offspring to enjoy what little
innocence and childhood they have left pales into insignificance when one
has to establish one’s own credentials as a left-leaning, right-on PC
camp-follower and professional outragee.

“”I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
to say it” is a phrase heard from centre-right and small-government
libertarians, but I cannot recall hearing it from the left – or even ever
having read of it being uttered by them.

Lucozade
March 30, 2013 at 00:47

Ted Treen,

Re: “Obviously, trifles such as leaving their offspring to enjoy what
little innocence and childhood they have left pales into insignificance
when one has to establish one’s own credentials as a left-leaning,
right-on PC camp-follower and professional outragee”

How does having a transgender teacher affect their “innocence” or
“childhood” at all? It doesn’t. They can still go home and play cow boys
and Indians (pretending to kill each other).

Do you think kids are not going to find out people like that exsist?
Well they will. Theres one in Coronation street, there was one singing in
the Eurovision song contest, they could have one living on their street or
a friend of theirs parent or sibling could be one.

It would not bother me if my kid had a transgender teacher, why should
it? It wouldn’t have bothered me if i’d had one. It takes all sorts to
make a world.

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 00:51

Bloody tolerance! It shouldn’t be allowed….

Ted Treen
March 30, 2013 at 01:03

You say “It doesn’t” because they can still go home and play…

They could still go home and play if they attended a public
execution.

They could still go home and play if they operated the trigger at a
public execution.

They could still go home and play if they had been taken and forced
to be child soldiers in Africa.

So I will re-iterate that having to face and deal with situations,
ideas and circumstances entirely inappropriate for an unformed intellect
and immature mind is far more likely to be harmful than otherwise.

I say your view (to which you have a perfect right) is at best
sophistry.

“It would not bother me if my kid had a transgender teacher, why
should it? It wouldn’t have bothered me if i’d had one.”
I’m so
pleased that your 7-year old self had the same levels of maturity and
wisdom that your 20-something yr old or 30-something yr old self
has.

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 01:28

‘So I will re-iterate that having to face and deal with situations,
ideas and circumstances entirely inappropriate for an unformed
intellect and immature mind is far more likely to be harmful than
otherwise.’

Ah, now I get it. Littlejohn was just making sure that as many
other children as possible might get to know about it too. A variation
on the Men in Black logic, of the ‘Well, no, it makes perfect sense’
sort, I guess

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 01:47

‘I’m so pleased that your 7-year old self had the same levels of
maturity and wisdom that your 20-something yr old or 30-something yr
old self has’

BTW, that does remind me of something which I can be guilty of
doing occasionally, well described by someone I read recently when
they wrote….’their usual modus operandi is heaping diatribes of
execrable excoriation upon anyone who has the outrageous temerity to
hold opinions differing to theirs’.

For their own good of course….

Lucozade
March 30, 2013 at 03:46

Ted Treen,

Re: “I’m so pleased that your 7-year old self had the same levels
of maturity and wisdom that your 20-something yr old or 30-something
yr old self has”

Well as I said the man who worked in the newsagent near me had a
sex change when I was 9, and I knew of him as a man before that, I do
not recall being bothered one iota, though he/she was not my teacher
and I did not have to live with him/her. I don’t remember any other
kids being that bothered either, including those younger than
myself.

Maybe if it was your teacher the confusion for younger kids, i’d
say about 4-8, might be slightly more because they have to deal with
them on a daily basis after being used to them being a man. So perhaps
it would have been better for everyone if the teacher had managed to
change schools, but that is not to say I think the results of having a
transgender teacher would all be totally negative as it encourages
kids to be tolerant of others, which is a good thing that will help
them to get on better in life I think.

I know a couple of older kids whose father is actually living with
a transgender person (as his girlfriend) and has been since they were
about 5 or 6. So it could be worse….

Jonathan Mason
March 29, 2013 at 13:46

There does seem to be quite an epidemic of young British men wanting to cut
off their penises these days, however their birth certificates will surely
always show them to be men and there will be certain biological features, such
as the structure of the pelvis that will always give the game away, no matter
how ingenious the reconstructive surgeons.

JuliaM March 29,
2013 at 15:21

I think they can apply for altered birth certificates now, can’t
they?

Jonathan
Mason March 29, 2013 at 18:49

I don’t know. I think if I presented a copy of my birth certificate to
immigration in the US and it had the word boy crossed out and replaced
with the word girl in different writing, they might have a problem with
it. In any case it would be falsifying a historical event.

JuliaM March
30, 2013 at 07:02

Fear not! Nothing so crude. They’d just issue you a brand new one.

And yes. That is indeed falsifying a historical event. We’re
apparently OK with that now.

Lucozade
March 30, 2013 at 16:26

JuliaM,

Re: “They’d just issue you a brand new one”

Could I get one knocking about 10 years off my age then?

Ho Hum
March 30, 2013 at 18:08

Would you see that as true also of people who change their
nationality? I can think on one prominent former Australian who would
be living a lie….

Lucozade
March 30, 2013 at 18:54

They should let kids who are adopted be issued with a new birth
certificate saying their adoptive mother gave birth to them too then….

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 12:55

Not entirely unfair comment. But I trust your last para denotes even
handedness on this issue.

For instance, the Mail isn’t averse to trying to hound people out of jobs,
or generate readers’ self righteous sanctimonious condemnation or moral panic,
froth, or sometimes almost vindictive trouble for just about anyone and
anything else it happens to take exception to, and the audience it targets in
seeking to purvey its version of indignation, truth and justice, at 100m+
unique visitors a month, is a wee bit bigger than the paltry 250k who took
exception here.

And, even if innocent himself, one has to question Littlejohn’s wisdom in
putting forward, what may possibly be, the prejudices of a few in front of
those millions, most of whom probably have no clue as to the mental health or
other issues associated with those who genuinely suffer from, and have to live
with the effects of, gender confusion. You merely need to look at the sort of
comments made BTL in almost any newspaper article that relates to
disabilities, particularly those that you have any personal knowledge of
whatsoever, to see how ignorantly rabid that mob can be

Chris
Barratt March 29, 2013 at 12:50

To a point though, Littlecock does set himself up for this treatment by the
kind of journalism he engages in. Like the abysmal Jeremy Vine show on Radio
2, he is part of the “sixth form debate” level of parasitical opinions not far
down from “The Sun Says”. Like Peter Hitchens and others, they seem perfectly
happy with this role and “life in the stocks”, sneering pseudo-intellectual
columns for the curtain twitchers of the UK.

JuliaM March 29,
2013 at 15:20

And to that the ‘Freak Of The Week’ shows so unaccountably popular on
Channel Five – usually medical in nature, they pander to the sorts of people
who’d have toured the asylums…

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 20:24

Probably would have been seen at Tyburn too, most likely dragging the
poor sods there

Chris
Barratt March 29, 2013 at 12:30

I have something in the pipeline re: selective bullying & the media.
There is (yet more) hypocrisy of a spectacular level in this “anti-bullying”
society.
As an (obvious) example – Yewtree. Out and out bullying using the
law.

Edna Fletcher
March 30, 2013 at 00:16

The hypocrisy comes from the government ministers and their appartchik,
the press have merely honed the art.

The splendid example is the mantra and profile given to safeguarding
vulnerable elders, to such a degree they can be deprived of their right to
non interference from state intervention just on the say so of the local
authority and secret courts. Yet the Telegraph, a rare paper indeed to have
done so, reported this week that there will have been 30,000 deaths of the
elderly from the ‘cold freeze’ here because they cannot afford the rocketing
fuel bills to keep the heat on at home. This is surely a form of government
led abuse because it actually has the power to do something about this
situation to safeguard elders from harm.

Britain is a society now with hypocrisy a core feature played out by
those in public life.

Elena ‘andcart
March 29, 2013 at 11:57

I can hardly believe what is going on, and there is just so much of it. I
have been watching from the other side of The Channel, the antics in Britain
and in The British Press for a number of years now, and many a laugh I have
had because a lot of it has been funny from a distance. But I ain’t seeing
much to laugh at lately. Sadly, a lot of residents of Britain don’t seem to
realise, which is probably the most worrying thing of all.

JuliaM March 29,
2013 at 11:32

“I forgot, he also made the terrible error of referring to Lucy as
‘he’.”

No mistake. He was a ‘he’ and despite the best plastic surgery known to
2013, he’d always be a ‘he’.

Johnnydub March 29, 2013 at 11:12

” is a spectacularly ugly politics that is being played out in the media
right now;”

I think the readers of this blog along with most regular people need to
realise that the left wing big staters are winning – primarily because they
are so fucking relentless. They want to be able to control, muzzle and
ultimately ban any voice they don’t approve of.. and make to mistake, with
things like the hate speech legislation and Leveson , they are getting closer
to their goal…

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 13:03

Not far wrong. But it’s those on the other side of the fence act so
bloody stupid most of the time

Ho Hum March 29, 2013 at 13:04

oh dear…hitting return too quickly again. That was meant to say…

Not far wrong. But it’s a shame that those on the other side of the
fence act so bloody stupid most of the time