A question for Nigel Farage – Has the UK got room for another million people?
Are there houses for them all? How will the roads fare with another half million or so cars on the road?
Could the hospitals cope? – a particularly pertinent question given that many of them suffer from health problems…will the GPs surgeries be able to improve their act as this proposed influx gets on the phone and demands an urgent appointment to access their medication?
What about the civil service? Are there enough bods on seats to process all the applications for money to be sent to new bank account details? Are Social Services ready with ‘emergency loans’ when their money doesn’t arrive in time?
Sorry, did you not realise that these million souls were poised to arrive? They are sitting on the edge of their seats rights now, waiting to see if ‘the moment’ is now; the moment when they should pack up their present life and arrive en masse in the British Isles.
They will integrate well, you won’t pick them out on the streets – they already speak English and they like to dress in Marks and Spencers finest.
They will be keen to vote too, and take an active part in civic life.
Sadly, many of them will be in dire financial straits, having sold whatever they can in order to arrive at the White cliffs of Dover.
And they will be very, very, angry.
If Britain pulls out of the European Union, as many would like to see happen, every last one of these people will be handed a British passport, and given full rights to avail themselves of all that the wonderful welfare state has to offer. As it happens, they will fare well financially in Britain, being instantly and automatically entitled to a much wider range of benefits than they have at present.
One million people, that is 1/60th of the curent population, a massive overnight increase.
Who are they? Where will they come from? Take your pick, every part of the European Union.
They are, of course, the one million Britons who listened to the politicians who said that now Britain was part of the European Union, they were free to live in any part of Europe. I am one of them.
I have not seen it mentioned anywhere in the media, nor by any politician, that if Britain withdraws from the EU, we will have no choice but to return to Britain. Overnight our status will become the same as, for instance, an American living in Germany.
A large proportion of those living in Europe are pensioners. A few will be able to afford private medical insurance – most pensioners will not, they rely on the reciprocal arrangements between Britain and their present home as fellow members of the EU. Instead of Britain paying a flat £2,500 a year towards their healthcare, the UK will have to fund all their hip replacements, heart ops, and diabetes care….If they stay where they are, they will no longer get the annual pension increase, minuscule as it is – and within a few years, inflation will have reduced them to penury.
Many of them will be forced to sell their houses at the same time – forcing a huge drop in house prices, if they can sell at all – don’t expect them to be financially self sufficient when they arrive back at Dover. Who knows whether the various European governments would even allow the wholesale transfer of millions of pounds to the UK, Britain has been known to prevent sterling leaving its shores before now which caused tremendous problems in the Mediterranean countries’ tourist trade, a little tit for tat would not be a great surprise.
Few of these people have any say in the matter, it will be decided without reference to them – Britain has long refused to allow its citizens to continue to vote in the country of their birth unless they plan to return within 15 years. The Government spends more time debating whether to allow prisoners to have the vote.
I find it extraordinary that this aspect of the In/Out debate on Britain’s membership of the European Union is not even mentioned – if staying in the EU meant a potential influx of another million people to the crowded shores it would be on the front page of every newspaper.
Time and again I am told that the reason so many in the UK will vote for UKIP is because UKIP promises to take them out of the EU – and they are fed up with the mass immigration apparently forced on Britain by virtue of its EU membership? Just thought I’d point out that you’ll end up with a different sort of migrant – the penniless, elderly, health resource consuming, English pensioners currently self supporting in Europe.
Tax credits, mmmn, free bus passes, mmmn, TV licence, mmmn, free health care, mmmn, help with council tax – all these things we fail to consume at the moment…
As you wish…
Updated to add: I fear many commentators have misunderstood my point – no doubt my fault. There is no danger that France or Spain or any other country ‘would send us packing’ or force repatriation upon us – the point is that it is the EU which has protected our interests against the illogical actions of the British Government. It is the British Government which has sought to repay us for not being a drain on Social Services in the UK by freezing our pensions – the EU said that was discrimination and disallowed it. It is the British Government which refuses us a vote unless we promise to return within 15 years. It is the British Government which has now been forced to give us the Winter Fuel Payments despite a campaign against us claiming that we are all sunning ourselves in Marbella, despite many of us enduring harsher winters than occur in the UK. We have all paid into the British Government in exactly the same way as you have – although we receive much less in return. What we do receive is courtesy of EU decisions forcing the UK Government not to discriminate against us.
If we find ourselves once more with British passports, rather than being European citizens, those protections will be removed at a stroke, we will have no say whatsoever in this. Without those protections, many, many people will be forced for financial reasons to leave their home in Europe and return to the UK.
As it happens, I won’t be one of them – my husband has lived and worked in France for many years, long before we married; I will stay here with him – but I still feel exceedingly sorry for the many who are being ignored in this saga who are not in that happy position.
Quite why there is so much vitriol towards those who have paid into the British system all their working lives, but then chose not to take out of it their full entitlement and live outside of the UK I cannot begin to understand.
As for taking French citizenship – why would I? I live here to be with my husband, not because I have no wish to be a British citizen.
January 10, 2013 at 18:36
-
Good point Anna. Just think all us ex-pats ( me Portugal)
Carers
allowance
attendance allowance
free bus passes
pension credit
warm
front allowance
community care grant
free TV license
housing
benefit
council tax benefit.
Makes a mouth watering temptation. But the bread is awful .
- January 10, 2013 at 19:03
-
January 10, 2013 at 19:09
-
Oh My. You nearly had me there for a minute. I nearly booked my ticket
back to UK. And then I remembered the last ten years when I managed to
survive on the depleted Euro, and no Winter Fuel Allowance, which
incidentally, they are still trying to deprive me of, by telling me that I
have someone else living in my house who is entitled to the other £100 that
they haven’t paid me. Yet. But they will by the time I have done with them.
And they do know that I live alone.
I also remembered that I still sleep
easy in my bed, and that people here still treat me with good manners and
respect.
I already get a free TV Licence. I don’t need Housing Benefit.
And The Council Taxes around here are a joke by comparison to UK. But I
don’t have to pay one of those because The UK Basic State Pension is
considered to be below the poverty line.
France has been very good to me
in many more ways than one.
Oh, and I WILL get back payments on The Winter Fuel Allowance that UK
illegally deprived me of back since 2001. Trying to diss me out one hundred
measly pounds has only made me more determined.
- January 8, 2013 at 22:38
-
Simple. We scrap the free hand-outs to all pensioners, whether resident or
ex-pat, and then you won’t be able to claim you’re being discriminated
against.
- January 8, 2013 at 22:30
-
Anna, have you thought of asking UKIP the very question?
To me it is
simple logic that ALL those who have contributed to the UK National Insurance
system should get their fair share, whilst economic migrants from the far
reaches of Europe get nothing. They will soon depart home.
UKIP are quite
pragmatic thinkers and I imagine this may have been considered at some
point.
- January 8, 2013 at 14:10
-
If it happens to one person, it’s a tradegy, to a million, it’s a
statistic.
-
January 8, 2013 at 10:46
-
A million more crammed into the Welfare State is, indeed, a scary thought.
Which if we remain in the EU Anna suggests we’ll be spared.
Except we won’t. The estimates for those from the newly resident-qualified
EU States expected here are pretty close to Anna’s scary estimate, so, whilst
the EU may have been her saviour on the pension front, it’s pretty much the
villain for those of us bracing ourselves for this next influx. In short,
Anna’s horror story of welfare collapse is coming true – courtesy of the
EU.
- January 8, 2013 at 09:25
-
I came back to the UK 15 months ago, having spent more than half my working
life away from these shores (I’m now 50); I’m almost regretting the return but
agree with Anna’s point: I felt castigated.
- January 7, 2013 at 16:30
-
I would have thought the biggest worry for expat pensioners is loss of
spending power due to currency fluctuations. I had a taste of this in the 80′s
when the Rand went from about 1.8/£ to about 4.5/£ rather quickly. My payments
to the UK quickly became unaffordable; luckily there was a fairy godmother
about for me.
I don’t think any eu state is going to be in a hurry to kick
out self supporting expats bringing in money and spending in the local
economy.
Still can’t see how the eu or more particularly the euro can ever
work without massive and perpetual transfers, not loans, from the rich to the
poor.
But then I’m not an economist or politician.
- January 7, 2013 at 13:47
-
Surely the main contra-point is that UKIP aren’t going to get elected in
any general election and Nigel is married to a German anyhow, so the question
might be better addressed to the boy David, or Mr Ed, the stalking horse.
Compared to the entirely way the UK politicians have wilfully avoided
addressing the mind-boggling plethora of issues viz-a-viz Scottish
Independence, I would think the Euro-question is pretty small beer. The thing
is to have votes, votes, votes – that’s what keeps ‘em ‘appy – not
Politics.
-
January 7, 2013 at 13:21
-
DON’T PANIC ! DON’T PANIC !
Anna , this is a posting far below your
usual standard.
I fear less the fanciful return of various crinkly
suntanned expats
than I do the influx of millions of job and/or benefit
seeking EU citizens
and their effects on this nation’s
infrastructure.
What happens as the desperate and ever expanding EU tries
to incorporate
more and countries on the periphery of Europe ?
North
Africa ? Near and Middle East ? Various ” ‘stans” ?
Door’s open , come on
in citizen.
Limit the damage. Get out, if our political “masters” will let
us.
-
January 7, 2013 at 13:20
-
These thoughts have crossed my mind recently, although not with the
intention of returning to UK, only on how I would survive here, since I have
no desire to subject myself to The British National Health Service, wherein I
would no doubt be dead in six months despite never being ill.
I have
currently concluded that I have two choices. I will apply to The French
Government for assistance which they will give me, albeit clawing it back from
my French Property when I am dead. Or my children will have to contribute to
my income if they wish to inherit my French Estate intact. The latter is
required of all French Citizens by Law with regard to their own old people, so
no discrimination there. And if you haven’t got any family then you won’t care
of what happens to your property once you are dead. However, should my Care
exceed what I own then The French Government is hardly likely to sue me once I
am six feet under.
I shall of course, discuss this with my children should
the need arise. A Tenner a week from all of them should sort it. Nothing more
than they spend on fripperies that I have never even contemplated or
wanted.
I have had a good life here for the last twenty years. I sleep in
peace. I am treated with respect and good manners, the like of which Britain
lost track before I even left. Why would I want to go back to that hell hole?
There is a very nice Old People’s Home just up the road, and full of people
that I have known for quite some time. And The French are kind.
-
January 7, 2013 at 13:15
-
As someone who was born in the UK but having Manx / Irish parentage (I hold
a British Islands: Isle of Man passport) this concern had also worried me as
it would have caused irrevocable harm to my personal and business life.
As an insurance policy against this, I exercised my right under the
constitution of the Republic of Ireland to an Irish passport. Although this is
not a cast-iron guarantee against the vindictiveness of UK politicians and/or
civil servants, I am hopeful that it will provide some measure of protection
in the event of a UK exit or even renegotiation with the EU.
It is estimated that about 1/4 of the UK population has a grand-parent that
was born in “The island of Ireland” (so including the 6-counties of Ulster)
and therefore have the right to claim Irish citizenship. All that is required
is the completion of a number of forms, birth & marriage certificates for
parents & grand-parents as well as the cost of the passport itself (free
to pensioners).
I obtained mine from the Irish Consulate in London, just down the road from
Harrods in 2008.
-
January 10, 2013 at 19:15
-
Yes John, we were so short sighted we lost Spike Milligan to the Irish,
who gladly claimed him as their own. He had served Britain for six years in
the Army but we felt he was such a dodgy geezer he had to swear fealty to
the Crown, which he wouldn’t do. How ironic when you think of some of the
quite dreadful specimens we have gladly given a passport to. In fact I hear
some have more than one
-
January 7, 2013 at 13:10
-
I think that your argument is a bit dramatic. Even if Britain went out of
the EU, a million people would not immediately be thrown into beggary, and
they would not come home at the same time. Besides, when when old folk get
>really< old, do they not come home anyway? You do raise a valid point
that UKIP would have to decide whether to enter into new reciprocal agreements
with EU countries (begging the question of whether it made sense to leave the
EU at all), or not bother.
-
January 7, 2013 at 13:06
-
I for one would welcome the influx of people with common sense, decency and
values. On another note, it seems the Russians are becoming very accommodating
lately, although admittedly only for aged actors.
- January 7, 2013 at 13:45
-
I was actually really amused by the way Gérard Depardieu handled his
original confrontation with Jean-Marc Ayrault (French PM) after being called
“shabby” by the PM. He made it quite clear that he supported M. Sarkozy in
the elections and exactly what he thought of the presumption of the
socialist government in stealing 75% of his hard earned money, which largely
went towards paying for his 80 or so members of staff.
His original approach of moving just over the Belgian border was a
suitably “French” snub to the socialists, but I’m not so sure about his
accepting Russian citizenship. This is a very in-your-face affront that goes
far beyond objecting to theft by the state and goes to the very heart of
what it means to be French. I suspect those who supported his earlier moves
as “just being Depardieu” will not and cannot support this.
Its one thing to be a fat drunken lecher with a great comedic talent, but
it is another to throw a temper tantrum like some petulant 5-year old and
bow down to the Reincarnation of St. Paul (look it up) in the form of
Vladimir Putin.
I suspect that dear Gérard is going to regret this, but probably not for
long given the state of his health.
- January 7, 2013 at 12:03
-
But at least they’re OUR “penniless, elderly, health resource consuming,
English pensioners currently self supporting in Europe” – that beats a
thousand shiploads of fast-breeding, benefits-consuming aliens any day,
wherever they come from.
- January 7, 2013 at 11:44
-
I shouldn’t worry too much, Anna. Even if we do get a referendum, and even
if we do stump up a majority for out altogether (neither of those is in any
way certain at the moment, and if they do happen they’re both a few years
off), it’ll take a decade or more to disentangle all the legal, administrative
and government threads.
Personally, I’d very much like us to politely withdraw from the
bureaucratic dictatorship that nobody has ever voted for. There are about 62
million living in Britain, and about a million expats in the EU. The greater
good of the greater number.
There’s also the question of EU citizens of non-British origin living and
working in the UK. It’s not going to be in Britains’s interests to summarily
deport them all. A degree of common sense will surely prevail over it all, as
it surely will in other EU states as well.
- January 7, 2013 at 11:36
-
Now with the update it is better understood. A very good question to ask
and something that would have to be considered as part of any changing of our
relationship. It does highlight that our political/civil service classes do
like to sneak things in and then blame the EU (gold plating
illegitimates).
- January 7, 2013 at 11:42
-
Thank you Derek. I once posed the same question regarding independence
for Scotland…how would the British Government treat those people who had
gone to live in Scotland if Scotland overnight failed to be part of the
UK….the answer apparently was that the generous Scots would look after them
– which is scarcely the point, the point is why doesn’t the British
Government look after us – we have paid for the service as much as anyone
else.
- January 8, 2013 at 10:39
-
Surely Anna that as you have lived in France for several years now you
must have contributed to the French system and would continue to do so. I
see absolutely no reason that when Britain leaves the EU you should be
under any pressure to do anything. With regards to you having *paid for
the service” as a French resident you are no longer paying taxes in the UK
but France. I am sure however that as a British passport holder you would
be welcomed back into the UK should you decide to return.
I am a little
confused by this post as normally you are so clear and concise in your
writings. Having been a French resident myself and returned to the UK this
sounds a bit like typical ex-pat tittle tattle, the sort of topic
discussed over wine and canapes.
I avidly read your posts and find your
contributions an inspiration and incisive and clear. This one does not fit
that mould at all.
Have a happy and healthy new year Anna.
- January 8, 2013 at
11:01
- January 7, 2013 at 11:25
-
What is the sixth biggest French Town by population ? Answer London !! 400K
at the last count but most likely getting bigger thanks to the socialist
ideologue Hollande . a million or so East Europeans ? The ferries will be busy
.LOL. I welcome British people back . At the moment I feel like a foreigner in
my own land . I will still be voting for UKIP . The Party that wants OUT of
the EU Empire . There is no future for my children in the Barmy Brussels post
democratic “project ” .
- January 7, 2013 at 10:53
-
Surprised at this one Anna, scare story of the sort to be found in a daily
rag.
EU countries won’t be booting out decent citizens that contribute, though i
wouldn’t blame them using the excuse to get rid of assorted ne’er do wells of
no use to man or beast.
I too doubt we’ll be seeing the UK leaving EU, too many advantaged
manicured fingers in pies to allow that to happen, if Farage looks like he’s
gaining too much ground to be a danger to the Three Cheeks of the Same Arse
party (thankyou George Galloway a perfect title for the cabal), they’ll come
up with increasingly hostile means to discredit him, like certain other
leaders of apparent nationalist parties who seem to have be currently left
alone to carry on whilst they split the anti EU vote.
Cameron has started the EU is lovely circus smoke and mirrors campaign,
he’ll be backed by the other two factions in other ways, unfortunately the
electorate being easily bought swindled and tricked will believe the concerted
campaign, hooked as they are on MSM propaganda.
- January 7, 2013 at 10:43
-
My brother is a civilian worker in the German armed forces and works
alongside Americans, Australians and Canadians as well as other UK and EU
folk. I know he would never take German nationality (although he’s been there
long enough to qualify) but I also can’t see him being sacked since he would
no doubt be moved across to a work permit on the same basis as his non-EU
colleagues. So this is an issue I have reflected on in relation to in/out
arguments.
The comments I’ve read above mine betray a great deal of the
smack-the-ex-pat sentiment borne of a kind of jealousy that such people chose
not to stay and suffer (the weather/the roads/the reciprocal migrants), but
regrettably the fate of the pensioners you describe , Anna, is a consequence
of political God complexes, where individuals are but mere game counters on
the board where the terribly important people squabble about the rules.
- January 7, 2013 at 10:25
-
Doesn’t worry me. I’ll vote UKIP again.
- January 7, 2013 at 10:20
-
You could always follow the example of Gerard Depardieu and apply for
Russian citizenship – you might even get a hug from Mr. Putin!
- January
7, 2013 at 11:17
-
- January 8, 2013 at 22:33
-
Exactly what I was thinking!
- January 7, 2013 at 10:15
-
One of the most pathetic frightener stories of why we shouldn’t leave the
eu that I’ve ever read!!
- January 7, 2013 at 10:14
-
Make up your mind Anna. Are you going I arrive in Dover looking very smart
wearing the same brand of clothing often chosen by Lady T, or will you be
arriving penniless and angry – and why ‘angry’ if you do?
Many British people decided to settle in various regions across Europe long
before the wretched EU was formed. Those that chose to return here to die did
so happily. Since then, those of us that decided to do the same (but needing
the protection of the EU umbrella) have had 30 or 40 years in which to enjoy
playing at being European. Some people never wanted to leave however and would
like, now, to enjoy a few years without what seems to be daily interferences
from the EU and pro Europe supporters. Those little Englanders (God blees ‘em)
would now like to enjoy maybe 10 or 20 years of calm on the issue before they
also die. What’s wrong with that – after all, fair’s fair isn’t it?
We don’t mind visiting ‘The Continent’ from time to time of course. A few
days here and there but on the whole we do prefer our own little plots of
land.
Of course you could also choose to apply to become a French blogger. But it
hardly matters because there’s no way on earth the UK will be allowed to leave
the EU. The media will not allow it. Enoch, with all his intellectual
brilliance, couldn’t keep us out, so what chance do you think old Nigel has at
getting us out? Full marks to both of them however for at least trying.
So rest easy again wearing M&S gear surrounded by all those fine wines
and gourmet foods.
Moving on now to something interesting: Have you penned that update for us
yet regarding the JS story – what’s happening on the front line? Are you still
following it up? How do you think it will all pan out now? The police seem
quite prepared to spread their net wide enough to snare someone who they can
nail for something.
-
January 7, 2013 at 09:53
-
Well, yeah but, no but, yeah but….
Nobody who can walk and chew gum at
the same time is going to try any tit for tat crap with us! For every vehicle
we sell into Europe, they sell ten here (just look at what’s parked on the
streets). Every poor old dear sent back from Spain would be matched by a Greek
or Pole or Frenchy travelling in the opposite direction. The City is not
disappearing as a financial hub no matter what wishful thinking there is from
Frankfurt and most European countries just LOVE their expat British workers
because we know how to do things (in Petrochem, me), so no one is getting too
upish there.
As far as treaties go, the Euro nations would be as eager to
see things going on as normal as we would, there will be no problems there as
most of the stuff relates to free movement of goods and people plus such
things as landing and traverse rights for commercial aircraft, all two way
streets again you see. Not very bothered here, too many people over there
would lose big time for theit governments to get peculiar.
-
January 7, 2013 at 09:50
-
If repatriation were to become an issue, my guess is that there would be a
net outflow of people from the UK.
In order to enjoy all the priviliges of French citizenship you will need to
become a French citizen but that, respectfully, is a matter for you and the
French Republic and not for Nigel Farage.
- January 7,
2013 at 09:46
-
I can’t see everybody flooding back to the UK…. it doesn’t make any sense
at all…
Here in Cyprus (large expat community) I still have no residence rights by
virtue of EU membership and have to provide my own private healthcare in order
to stay in the country…
- January
7, 2013 at 09:42
-
Interesting to note that if we leave the EU, loads of foreigners will be
allowed to stay here but the Brits living in the EU will have to return home.
Why? The answer I guess is that we are yet again proving to be a soft touch.
If the EU is sending us home, then we should send their nationals home as
well.
I can see why Cameron doesn’t want a referendum in the near future, because
that would shut the doors on the millions of Romanians and Bulgarians who are
already packing to come here in 2014. Can’t have that can we?
If there was an Olympics for mugs, Britain would clean up the gold medal
tally…
- January
7, 2013 at 09:38
-
It must be worrying, as is any uncertainty, especially as one gets older
and less adaptable. But even so plenty of people travelled and lived abroad
before the EU. I can’t imagine France wants to kick out all the english any
more than our lot want to kick out french tax exiles. I would be far more
worried about a collapse of the Euro.
- January 9, 2013 at 04:04
-
” I would be far more worried about a collapse of the Euro”………….Well done
Woodsys, that is THE issue in Europe, and it will happen much sooner than
any determination of Britain’s membership of EU. Worrying about in/out is
futile, worrying about what happens when all the euro banks eventually tell
the truth and start marking assets to market value, finally admitting they
are insolvent is going to be a big wake-up call for European governments as
their “guarantees” to depositors come due. There won’t be much complaining
about winter fuel allowances after people realise their savings have been
decimated. Your future is going to look an awful lot like Greece, for all
European citizens.
- January 7, 2013
at 09:35
-
What on earth makes you think you’ll be sent packing back to the UK?
So
long as you’re paying your taxes (abroad) own property (abroad) work (abroad)
it’s unlikely you’ll be sent back via cattle truck to the UK. As far as I’m
aware it isn’t UKIP policy to repatriate any foreigners living or working here
either.
You really don’t seem to have thought this one through or even
matched it to UKIP policies.
-
January 7, 2013 at 11:25
-
every last one of these people will be handed a British
passport
So what are they travelling on at the moment? I know it looks like a
little red Europass but that’s an illusion trying to make itself real. It is
actually a British Passport. All British pensioners are entitled to come
here any time they like, regardless of other political events. I’d rather
cope with returning ex-pats than ten times that number of non-nationals,
which is approximately the number being bandied about.
Why not ask France whether it intends to eject you, or apply for French
citizenship? The fundamental nature of living in a country where you aren’t
a citizen is that you may be removed for reasons beyond your control. It’s
only a foul if a country tries to disown its own citizens. Whether to take
this chance or cut ties with the auld country is always a matter for the
individual and ought to be considered a little more carefully than it
sometimes is.
Besides, the crude in/out visualization bears no resemblance to the
reality of European supranational organizations. It’s like gym membership;
other packages are available. This is an excellent wiki which shows that
other countries, such as Switzerland and Norway, make other choices. I’m
open to debate on which memberships to take out. Nobody should be frightened
by bogey-men pretending that the EU is the only grouping. It most certainly
is not. All we have to do is negotiate a move to another area of the
diagram.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Supranational_European_Bodies
- January 7, 2013 at
11:39
- January 7, 2013 at 22:35
-
Woman on a Raft: ” I’d rather cope with returning ex-pats than ten
times that number of non-nationals, which is approximately the number
being bandied about.”
Precisely. In fact I’d go further and say I’d prefer ten times that
number of ex-pats returning, than one million non-nationals.
-
January 8, 2013 at 01:56
-
“In fact I’d go further and say I’d prefer ten times that number of
ex-pats returning, than one million non-nationals.”
Well you’re just a beacon of common decency then aren’t you?
{ 43 comments }