Bring Me the Head of PC Simon Harwood on a Platter!
If they desire a thing they declare that it is true. If they desire it not, though that were Death itself, they cry aloud, ‘It has never been.’ Thus their talk is the talk of children, and like children they snatch at what they covet.
Rudyard Kipling
If the Social Media ‘mob’ had its way, the head of PC Simon Harwood would this morning be gracing a spike at the gateway to the Blogosphere. We haven’t yet descended into mob violence, though the forces that wish we were, were massing outside Scotland Yard last night.
There is no uglier sight than the vigilante force denied their victim, no more illogical thought process than that dictated by 140 character snippets of prose taken out of context.
Welcome to the world of trial by twitter.
The world of the Guardian reader, where Ian Tomlinson was a ‘kindly man who loved Dandelion and Burdock‘, a devoted family man, who through no fault of his own, driven by circumstances, and the forces of a cruel, cruel, world, was reduced to sleeping rough on the streets, sipping alcohol from a paper cup, and making his shambling, shy, smiling, way home is driven into the path of a man who embodies true evil, no extenuating circumstances, does not bear too close examination. Perhaps that is why its adherents prefer to be limited to 140 characters.
140 characters just leaves room to declare that all police are ‘mindless thugs’, without the space to afford PC Simon Harwood any excuses for his behaviour. Perhaps there are no excuses; there are certainly extenuating circumstances though – and you do not have to go to the lengths of describing a life time alcoholic as a ‘lover of Dandelion and Burdock’.
The ‘mindless thugs’ of popular lore are expected to have a resilience over and above that of the man in the street. One minute they are just another man on the street, the next minute, after hours of diversity training, how ‘to spot a racist on Twitter’ training, the correct way to address a half dressed slattern who has been playing strip poker with four strangers all night and now complains that although she agreed to share a bed with two of them, she didn’t agree to sex; is expected to turn into a paragon of even temper that you can spit at, throw your hypodermic needle at, lob petrol bombs at, scream at, and in Ian Tomlinson’s case, grin and gurn at as you slowly amble in front of a line of police dogs in the middle of a riot. Strangely enough, all that diversity training does little to prepare a man for finding that when a brick lands on his head, half the crowd will yell with delight – ‘Pig down’! Nor did the ‘Twitter training’ prevent Simon Harwood from losing his temper that day.
He was wrong to do so, undoubtedly; it was against regulations, obviously. But ‘mindless thug’, a ‘murderer’ who has escaped justice through the combined forces of the illuminati, a judge with lizard like tendencies, an example of the conspiracy effected by ‘the elite’ against decent working class men…I don’t think so.
The fact that so many people do think so is evidence of the powerful forces within our society who wish to ensure that the State, and only the State, takes all and provides what it chooses after helping itself to whatever the ‘new elite’ consider is their due recompense.
Consider first of all, that a Police Officer is not a ‘servant of the people’, a phrase I see constantly repeated, nor is he a State employee. He is a servant of the Crown, a subtle difference. One that gets right up the noses of the Guardianistas. His duty is to uphold the law of the land, of the Crown, not the whims of the mob. Nor of the Guardian republicans.It explains why the likes of Vera Baird are so keen to ease themselves into position whereby they decide the priorities of their local police force. Expect to see the Police in Northumberland spending most of their time listening, with a kindly expression on their face, to the ‘Facebook’ tale of woe of the woman called slag by the Father of two of her six children , etc. etc. and a bare minimum of time ensuring that the local bank manager (evil bastard) (Boo!) manages to get to work past the combined marching force of the GMB out on strike yet again.
Consider also, that Simon Harwood was not found ‘not guilty’ of Manslaughter, not by the other ‘mindless thugs’, most of whom would join me in condemning his loss of self control, nor by the Masonic influences of the establishment/illuminati/judiciary – but by twelve men and women plucked from the street, people just like Ian Tomlinson! Guardian readers even, who had heard ALL the evidence, not just a 15 minute YouTube clip, considered ALL the factors, and, Family Fortunes style, the top answer was “NO”, not guilty of Manslaughter.
Who knows what the verdict might have been had they been asked to consider whether he should have lost his temper, been employed in the first place, or should have been out catching Facebook defamers? That isn’t what they were asked. That does appear to be what Simon Harwood is being tried for in the media now.
The ‘I’ for Independent, IPCC, was straight out of the trap last night, with a cleverly worded statement which suggested that they will support the family in its attempts to have a third bite at the Harwood cherry.
“Our investigation painstakingly assembled a huge amount of evidence, and concluded that PC Harwood had a case to answer for unlawful use of force. We first concluded this in July 2009 and I understand – and indeed share – the frustrations of Mr Tomlinson’s family and others at how long the case has taken to come before a court.”
‘Quite right too’, says Social Media. ‘Didn’t the Inquest find him guilty’? Actually, NO they didn’t. The inquest was specifically prohibited by law from any such finding.
‘Yeah’, says Social Media, ‘but he was a bastard, have you heard about all his previous convictions’? Well, no I haven’t actually. I have heard, thanks to the BBC, of all the previous unproven allegations that were made against him. Police Officers attract ‘allegations’ like flies to a corpse. In Harwood’s case, only one was proven, that he had misused a police computer to track the driver of a car that was involved in an incident with his ex-wife.
Do you really want a world where every allegation ever made against you is dragged up in court when you stand trial for something? I think not, currently you have a system where not even previous convictions can be mentioned unless you bring them up.
‘But he shouldn’t have been re-hired in the first place’. Quite possibly not, I’ll grant you – but you think the man should have gone to prison for manslaughter because his employers didn’t check his credentials closely enough? That is the logical outcome of that argument.
Almost unnoticed, whilst the arguments raged on Twitter, over in Birmingham, another jury of 12 good men and true was finding that driving your car deliberately at a group of men who were merely trying to protect their property wasn’t manslaughter either. That they were found not guilty earned one brief line of comment from the BBC, but the fact that a senior police officer had lied about immunity given to witnesses during the trial, an entirely peripheral matter that had NOT led to the judge deciding a fair trial could not take place, earned itself 39 of the 43 lines of comment, resulting in the impression being given that the men had escaped a manslaughter conviction because of the lies of that senior officer. Now why would they want to give that impression?
There is a mood afoot in Social Media, bolstered by the efforts of the BBC and the Guardian to see the police so denigrated that they disband – and be replaced by what? G4S? Most of them won’t bother to turn into work on the day that you need their services! Be careful what you wish for.
In the meantime, I say to those who seriously believe that the police are all mindless thugs – next time you get into a row in your local pub as to which of the seven children are really yours, and your mate threatens to settle it with a broken beer glass – do NOT call the police.
You are already in a fraught situation, and the last thing you need to do is invite half a dozen ‘mindless thugs’ into the fracas, who knows where it will end? Sort it out by yourself. In fact don’t bother to call them when you find yourself faced by a drug crazed schizophrenic wielding a Samurai sword in the middle of the High Street, nor when some scroat has smashed the window of your car for messing with his wife.
It’ll be good practice for the day when the Police finally go on strike.
- July 23, 2012 at 23:38
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An excellent post.
Whilst I accept that I cannot make any serious comment re PC Harwood’s
culpability since I am not party to all the evidence, your overall point Anna,
that trial-by-media is becoming far too common is very valid.
Frighteningly so.
Could I turn people’s minds back a little to the comparatively recent
dreadful murder of Joanna Yates in Bristol?
Does anyone remember the field-day the press had with the landlord, Chris
Jeffries, whose only offence appears to have had a certain degree of
eccentricity.
Yet the MSM virtually had him hung, drawn & quartered. Luckily it
subsequently cost them a packet, but do they care? Hell, no. Do they remember
it now? Hell, no. Did they learn anything? Hell, no.
Our legal system is riddled with inconsistencies and downright flaws – some
trivial, some monumental: but I still think that, warts and all, it is, on the
whole, better than trial by Redtop.
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July 23, 2012 at 15:35
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The video shows a confused (probably drunk) old man with his back to the
police. One of whom strikes him violently from behind causing him to fall.
Causing his death? No idea – and the jury (much better informed than I) says
‘no’. But it leaves a very nasty taste, and I’m afraid that Tomlinson has been
forgotten. That some of your posters feel it necessary to insult the man is
shameful.
It’s clear that Harwood was (is) unfit to be a policeman (and equally clear
that the rest of the Met should not be tainted by his behaviour). And that’s
the only salient fact we can take away from this sad business.
The flaming that seems to have engulfed this normally sensible site telling
us that all police are bastards or all demonstators are morons is, well,
boring.
- July 21, 2012 at 23:54
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As an antidote to the police haters:
I was talking to a friend today and
mentioned an ex-policeman bowler. Friend: ‘..do you know he’s got the George
Cross?’, and explained why.
That bowler is ex policeman Tony Gledhill,
G.C.
Check out what he did.
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July 22, 2012 at 01:42
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“Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis”
@Binao – Tony Gledhill GC
– That was then (Aug 1966 – about the time I was accepted to join
‘Nearly-metroland Police’) – now it is more probable they would have faced
an IPCC ‘investigation’ – and Disciplinary Proceedings – for ‘causing the
offenders car to crash.’
@Pompey – So far as I recall , in ’60s, my ‘Riot Training’ chiefly
consisted of being ordered NOT to wear footballers’ shin pads, a cricket
‘box’ or thick gloves – in case our victims (eg – people who had tried
stabbing us with ‘placard poles’- 6ft lengths of 2 x2 timber with a
sharpened end) – alleged we had come prepared for violence.
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July 21, 2012 at 18:57
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Met police training scheme for Riot squad
Senior Training Officer meets
recruit and gives him a baton and says ” I want you to go out and club five
people including a disabled person, a mother, a member of the ethnic minority
and a left wing protestor, mash em up real bad ! and then I want you to find a
cat and club this as well”
Recruit ” Why do I have to club the cat?”
Senior Training Officer” Good lad, welcome to the MET Riot Squad you passed
the course”
- July 21, 2012 at 13:41
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Oh! OK– ha ha
- July 21, 2012 at 12:58
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Crikey.
Try posting that on the Inspector Gadget blog and you may have
to revise your opinion.Just ignore the “first” game ,it`s an annoying
tradition that does`nt detract from the general quality of the
contributions.
- July 21, 2012 at 13:25
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The Lord Harry, jerym. I didn’t get to where I am today by revising my
opinion !!!
(That’s a jest)
- July 21, 2012 at 13:25
- July 21, 2012 at 11:58
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In all of these supportive and condemning comments about policepersons, one
small matter has been completely overlooked. Most on the ‘front line’ are just
ordinary coppers who, like ordinary troops in the Forces, are not terribly
well educated, mostly around ‘average’ in intelligence and from backgrounds
(school/home) which are not generally well regarded for producing high
quality. To expect many to excercise discretion or make sound judgements is
expecting a bit too much.
Being an old shyte I can recall the coppers of my youth. Most were mature
men who could be relied upon. But today I have to wonder. Most look very like
the ordinary thug in the street apart from the uniform. The You Tube wossit is
chocka with videos of thick coppers who seek to ad-lib the ‘law’ out of their
rears. They ‘demand’ names and addresses as if they were entitled to even ask
for them. They invent ‘laws’ on self-demand, such as ‘You cannot record me’.
They order folks to hand over cameras. They threaten arrest when no offence
has been committed. They ‘claim’ that ‘someone complained’ but refuse to say
whom, and it is doubtful is anyone has. They ‘move you on’ when you are simply
going about your lawful occasions.
The general public used to hold the police in some regard. It is
encouraging to see that some here still do. But I would think they are in the
minority. Personally, I would trust a copper as I would trust anyone else
trying to lord it over me and tell me what I can and can’t do. They are, to
me, untrustworthy agents of a State which is untrustworthy.
- July 21, 2012 at 14:35
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The Olympic torch passed through my town yesterday and the police
motorcyclists accompanying it were nothing like your description of, “..just
ordinary coppers who, like ordinary troops…”. Perhaps, after the bad
publicity (from the above case), they had been briefed to be friendly and
approachable, for they certainly were: “high-fiving” the people lining the
route, stopping so kids could admire their bikes, allowing photographs to be
taken with them, etc.
Most of those youngsters will have formed very
favourable impressions of policemen – surely a good, positive attitude with
incalculable benefits for the kids’ future, perhaps teenage, encounters with
the law.
So I do not see an insoluble problem of alienation between
police and citizen, just the usual few “bad apples” to be dealt with and the
majority good, dedicated men & women still maintaining a standard much
higher than pertains in most other countries.
- July 21, 2012 at 15:10
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Included in my class of 16 recruits at Police Training College were 5
graduates from university, a store manager with an HND, 3 people from the
military (including me, an ex Infantry Warrant Officer Class 1 with 5 ‘A’
levels), 2 ex Police officers who had left the Police, didn’t like life
outside and had rejoined, a State Registered Nurse, and a plumber who had
ran his own company for 7 years before being bought out by a plumbing chain.
A varied group of people with mixed educational or vocational qualifications
so I suppose that collectively they could be assessed as being ‘average’ in
that department. As for the atrocious comment about ordinary troops in the
Forces being not terriblky well educated I can only say that you are talking
out of your *rse! The qualifications required for progression in the Armed
Forces are certainly more complex and intense than almost anything equired
in civvy street outside law and medicine. Take the REME, for instance where
the successful completion of a 2 year course to become an artificer is
required for progression above the rank of Sgt; The Royal Corps of Signals
requires a knowledge of computers which would give Bill Gates a headache;
and even the so called ‘lower’ Corps such as the Royal Logistics Corps
requires expertise in, for instance, driving tank transporters or other
specialised vehicles. None of the above are examples of not terribly well
educated soldiers of avergae intelligence. And that’s only the Army. Who do
you think keeps the few planes we have in the RAF in the sky? Airmen and
women. Who do you think operates the highly technical equipment in the few
ships and boats we have left in the Royal Navy? Naval Ratings. Many of these
go on to become Police officers, as I did, when their military service comes
to an end and they bring their qualifications and experience, not only iof
life, but of working under extreme pressure and in dangerous situations with
the ability of operating either as a team or as an individual, using the
skills and initiative instilled in them through training and operations.
Youtube wossit are selective – put there by people who enjoy taking the
mnickey out of the Police and some are deliberately set up to ensure the
officers fall on their faces. If you accept those as the whole face of the
Police then you are an idiot. I really do believe you have the correct
blogging name. Crikey!
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July 21, 2012 at 15:18
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I just may be an idiot, as you say, ex-warrant ociffer with 5 ‘A’
levels. I was an airman, though, too. And an NCO, and would you believe an
Officer too. I have three degrees. BA, BA(hons) and an MSc. And 20 years
in the Service. But what the heck. I didn’t try to be a copper as last
resort as my parents were married when I was born too.
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July 21, 2012 at 15:57
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“I didn’t try to be a copper as my prents were married when I was
born too.” The usual retort is, “Surely it would have been nicer if they
had been married to each other?” Once you start the insults, old fruit,
you realise you have lost the high ground. By the way, have stopped
showing my grandchildren the videos of your adventures. I’ve had to. No
matter what I said, having watched a few minutes of you on Youtube, I
couldn’t convince them that you weren’t a killer! Sorry.
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July 21, 2012 at 16:00
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I do feel a fool. That last comment was meant for Noggin and not
you. Crikey! What have I done? Unless you are both the one and
same?
- July 21, 2012 at 22:50
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What are you on about?
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- July 21, 2012 at 23:23
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Well said Crikey!
- July 21, 2012 at 14:35
- July 21, 2012 at 11:42
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Going by quite a few of these comments, Iwould suggest the best thing to do
would be to completely disband the Police Forces of England, Wales, Scotland
and Northern Ireland and let firms like G4S take over – it’s going to happen
in the next five years anyway, so let’s do it now! Then we’ll see who squeals
first. Many of those critical of the Police – and yes, of course the Police do
get it wrong sometimes, just like people in every other profession – are those
who have had no personal contact or input. Some of the older readers will
remember Sir Robin Day, a noted broadcaster, journalist and interviewer. He
had very strong views about capital and corporal punishment and Police
brutality and regularly used his influence, and brilliant sarcasm and wit, to
denigrate or humiliate those who had different points of view. One late
evening, in 1963 or 64 – I remember ‘cos I had just started a new job in
London – he was walking out of Television Centre when he was mugged and had
his jaw broken. Of course, it made all the newspaper headlines and the (then)
London Evening News led with the headline (in smaller print) “Sir Robin Day’s
first words after having his jaw wired” then (in larger print) “I HOPE THEY
HANG THE BASTARDS!” Of course, the newspapers weren’t as ethical in their
reporting as they are now so it may be that an element of journalistic licence
had crept in (wouldn’t happen today, of course!). His whole attitude changed
because, suddenly, instead of standing away from the action and reporting, he
was personally involved. I would suggest that he would not be alone.
By the
way, this is a brilliant blog topic!
- July 21,
2012 at 12:53
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Poor old Robin Day. At least his attitude changed! It seems this bloke hasn’t learned much:
“She added: ‘He’s quite phlegmatic about it. He’s fine, although a bit
nonplussed to be robbed outside the Mansion House, of all places. It’s quite
shocking.
‘He was wearing his full regalia, tights and everything.
‘Some of the most senior bods in the City of London police are looking
into it.’”
How nice.
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July 21, 2012 at 14:41
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You may be interested in this letter posted in the Guardian newspaper.
A real voice of reason.
• The Guardian appears to regard the acquittal of PC Simon Harwood for
the manslaughter of Ian Tomlinson as a failure (Tried – and failed,
Editorial, 20 July). I do not have sufficient knowledge of the evidence to
comment on this.
It is disquieting, however, in a newspaper with the Guardian’s history
of exposing miscarriages of justice to read insinuations about defence
counsel with “sparkling advocacy” dazzling jurors, or that the director of
public prosecutions, faced with flawed forensic evidence, was somehow
cowardly for not having brought a prosecution to satisfy those who “knew”
the defendant was guilty.
There are clearly many questions arising from the flawed handling of
this case. But caution should be exercised, as repeated examples have
shown that undermining the presumption of innocence and changing the law
to convict “the guilty”, however tempting in hard cases, invariably makes
bad law.
Dr Hannah Quirk
School of law, University of Manchester
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- July 21,
- July 21, 2012 at 00:30
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Being older and having been around a bit:
First, experience of police in
my own community, in mainland Europe, the US, and RSA, would suggest that we
are pretty well served by our frontline police. Just don’t get me started
however on the organisation and availability of the forces.
Second, in
England, about one person in 500 is a policeman, very roughly. So we may know
one; even if they don’t talk about the job. Do you personally know of a dodgy
cop in your area? I can only ever recall one total waste of a pair of boots-
just ineffective, not corrupt or vicious.
Sure there are bad policemen,
hopefully not like the corrupt officers of decades ago, but most I’ve come
into contact with have been courteous and competent.
So regardless of
whatever the truth is about this one policeman, I still have confidence in
policemen, if not in the organisation..
- July 21, 2012 at 23:16
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Being older and having been around a bit:, I have very little confidence
in policemen, or in the organisation..
- July 21, 2012 at 23:16
- July 20, 2012 at 22:45
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Not once in all the comments that I`ve read on this affair has anyone
acknowledged that all the information on which they have based their arguments
was obtained via the press. Think about it in the light of the case sometime
ago when a barrister firing a shot gun at random from his window was shot dead
by the police. The press reports regarding the officer`s evidence at the
inquest was a complete fabrication lead by the Daily Mail and eagerly echoed
by the rest of them and it was only when the New Statesman obtained and
published the actual court transcript that the truth was revealed.
We have
a tendency to believe what we want to believe and when faced with a fact that
contradicts our argument we then change the target.
I think of this as the
“yeah but what about”style of debate and it`s very annoying and not at all
productive.
- July 20, 2012 at 23:09
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Exactly! Jerym is ‘on the ball’.
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July 20, 2012 at 23:15
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People have a tendency to believe what they see, and millions have seen a
man, with hands in pockets, walking away from the police as he was assaulted
with a stick and pushed to the floor, causing injuries that killed him.
It is good that people question what they read, as the initial Met
statements were proven to be total falsehoods.
- July 20, 2012 at 23:28
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That`s just your interpretation. I see a man sauntering along with his
hands in his pockets being a pain in the arse in a potentially dangerous
situation between a mob bent on making trouble and a line of policemen
attempting to control them
- July 20, 2012 at 23:59
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Best kill him then, just to be on the safe side. He was only a drunk
and a tramp after all.
Are you saying that Harwood has done absolutely nothing wrong and
should be allowed to continue to ‘serve’ Her Majesty?
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July 21, 2012 at 08:11
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You`re being silly again Noggin
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- July 20, 2012 at 23:59
- July
21, 2012 at 06:15
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Initial Met statements being found out later to be a tissue of lies
seems to be such a common occurrence I do wonder why more press officers
aren’t gripping the rail at the Old Bailey…
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July 22, 2012 at 00:47
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Almost true, but very subtly incomplete:- in fact, people have a
tendency to believe what they want to see: backed up with a tendency to
believe that what they wanted to see was actually what they saw.
- July 22, 2012 at 13:36
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Good observation Ted
- July 22, 2012 at 13:36
- July 20, 2012 at 23:28
- July 20, 2012 at 23:09
- July 20, 2012 at 22:10
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Anna, you are legally trained right? Can you (or anyone) explain how
striking a man with a baton and pushing him to the ground causing injuries
which according to the inquest caused his death ~ would constitute
manslaughter? Could you also explain how this doesn’t (please state the
difference).
~ I’m not being perverse, I genuinely wish to understand the nuances in
this area of law.
This would be very useful information if I ever get assaulted or my house
is burgled or if an unarmed person walks away from me whilst making faces with
his hands in his pockets and my steroids are making me very, very angry.
- July 20, 2012 at 22:14
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Who was on steroids?
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July 20, 2012 at 22:41
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And did they get them from the doctor?
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- July 20, 2012 at 22:14
- July 20, 2012 at 20:51
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Excellent blog.
I am a PC who often posts on sites where we get
hammered.I think we are going to take some flak on this case.At least the
Lefties will now stop quoting Blair Peach as they have a new poster boy for
police brutality.
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July 20, 2012 at 22:17
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De Menezes is good one. Shot in the face for being brown.
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July 20, 2012 at 22:31
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Not for being brown – for being a suspected terrorist (the fact that he
had illegally overstayed his visa and should hav returned home to Brazil
months earlier didn’t exactly help). That it was a tragic mistake is not
in doubt but he was not deliberately targeted for the reason you
mentioned. I would suspect that you have not had any Police, or military,
experience where you were placed in a life or death situation, where you
had to make a split-second decision based on the information you had in
front of you at that time and yet you KNEW that there would be a bunch of
Guardian reading, self-satisfying numpties who would take weeks going over
your actions and, with the benefit of hindsight, discover that you had
made a mistake. I was a soldier in the british Army and served in Malaya,
Borneo, Aden and Northern Ireland (3 tours) where I was rquired to make
those split-second decisions several times a day. I was extremely
fortunate that none of them resulted in an unlawful death, though they
sometimes did result in a number of deaths. In each case, I had to face a
military enquiry and answer questions from desk-bound officers while at
the same time screaming inside, “You weren’t there! You have no idea what
really happened in such a short space of time!” The officers involved in
the De Menezes case acted on the information given to them at the time and
they acted on that. The reason he was shot several times in the head was
to prvent the possibility of any brain activity setting off an explosive
device through bodily reflex action. I have no doubt that every one of
those officers go through their actions several times a day and ask
themselves, “Could I have done it differently? Would it have made a
difference if I had?” I know. I’ve been there and I’ve done that. The only
reason that you can sleep safely in your bed at night is because there are
men and women who put themselves in that position. I honestly don’t know
what your prblem is, but it could be resolved by having a decent chat at a
pub with good beer with someone who knows what they are talking about. I
still think it’s grolliffe.
- July 20, 2012 at 22:51
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Excellent reply Pensivat from someone who quite simply appears to
know what he is talking about.
- July 20, 2012 at 23:06
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You have absolutely no idea what experience I have, and I’m not going
to have a flame war with you over how many men’s lives I’ve been
responsible for, nor the outcome of the life and death decisions I’ve
sometimes had to make.
I’m sure De Menezes would not have been shot if he were white.
I
do not read The Guardian. It is a good thing that ‘numpties’ investigate
every minor detail every time the police kill yet another person that
they were not legally entitled to.
Are you sure that Cressida Dick (how apt) spends her days wondering
how things could have turned out better, what with her gaining a big
promotion just months after this travesty?
He was only a dago though, overstaying his visa, so he got what was
coming, eh?
These things are all irrelevant to the Tomlinson killing, although
they do serve to show that gross incompetence is not punished when the
perpetrators are police, even when that incompetence leads to death. It
is even rewarded, as with Dick.
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July 20, 2012 at 23:17
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Go away Noggin, you`re being very silly.
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- July
21, 2012 at 06:04
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Penseivat: “..(the fact that he had illegally overstayed his visa
and should hav returned home to Brazil months earlier didn’t exactly
help).”
When someone uses this – and the fact that Tomlinson was an
alcoholic/had relatives who didn’t care about him – I find it tends to
devalue anything else they have to say.
Simply because it’s not actually relevant ant it sounds rather like a
sulky five-year-old caught with his hand in the cookie jar trying
desperately to find some way of deflecting blame.
- July
21, 2012 at 06:13
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And as for the ‘Few Good Men’ line about rough men standing by so I
can sleep safely in my bed, I’d have thought the police’s woeful
performance at the Tottenham riots, when decent citizens were burned out
of their homes and businesses, would have caused anyone thinking of
relying on that to feel such a flush of shame that they’d be unable to
type the words.
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July 21, 2012 at 09:29
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Perhaps our “woeful” performance was because every time we use
force someone like you criticises us? Or we end up in court when it
goes wrong three years after the event?
- July 21, 2012 at 10:59
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Jaded, please show me where I’ve criticised the police for using
unnecessary force on a criminal who was resisting arrest?
On those to whom force should not have been applied, then oh, yes!
That will draw my ire. But the bang-to-rights bad ‘un? He can have ‘an
accident’ with the cell doorframe, and I’ll buy you a pint.
-
July 21, 2012 at 11:54
-
For this, you have to look at Politically motivated Senior Police
Officers, i.e. those who wish to progress further up the career ladder
without stepping on too many toes, so they wait for their leaders to
obtain instructions from their political masters and for those
instructions to flow down the chain of command. The Police Force is a
disciplined, rank structured, organisation and as much as many of
those foot soldiers would have wanted to get stuck in, they had to
wait for instructions on where to go, what kit (woefully provided and
not really up to the job) they would have and what back-up they would
have if things got pear-shaped – as they did on several occasions. As
mentioned above, every person from ACPO down to the man or woman on
the front line knew, just knew, that every action they took would be
photographed and video’d by people on both sides and then, in the
aftermath, a number of high ranking officials and politicians wouls
spend weeks looking at their actions before deciding they were a
disgrace to the Police and the community. It was strange that, when
the 9/11 attack took place, the Mayor of New York and every member of
his staff were on the streets within hours. The Highest ranking
Police, Fire and Ambulance officers were also on the streets, sleeves
rolled up, getting their hands dirty and organising rescues and
actions from the scene. In the riots, where was the Mayor London?.
Where were his staff? Where were the central politicians and where, oh
where, was the Prime Minister? Every good foot soldier (and I use that
term loosely, not only militarily) knows that they need good,
decisive, leaders to get the job done. Political prevarication does
not get the job done. In the aftermath, everyone in authority used the
basic law of political responsibility – “It is like water, flows
downwards until it finds the lowest possible level.” The lowest
possible level were those Police officers who put their lives on the
line and, despite misgiving and outright condemnation of their leaders
instructions, were prevented from doing what was expected of them.
-
- July 20, 2012 at 22:51
-
-
-
July 20, 2012 at 20:20
-
Anna. A really good post covering all the relevant points. It’s a real
shame that a lot of people appear so blinkered but so will it remain.
- July 20, 2012 at 20:11
-
[Re-posted from my original on IG]-
\\
MOST unfortunately (from the
media PoV) – UK law requires a ‘Criminal Court’ (not an Inquest) to decide on
‘Guilt’ before a sentence can be passed.
But the Press can ‘name and shame’
and ‘call for justice’ -by deploying the most powerful weapons in history.
Printing contentious comments ‘within quotation marks’ – and making claims
about ‘Popular Demand’.
Definitions –
“Justice” – Decision -including penalties/ compensation –
by any court or tribunal, with which I agree. From which, therefore, no appeal
is permissible.
“Injustice” (aka – ‘cover-up’, loop-hole, &c) Any legal procedure
(Allegation/investigation/ trial) that results in a verdict that I – and my
friends/popular media – don’t like. In every such instance ‘The Authorities’
should be forced to have another go – change the Law if necessary – FIND extra
witnesses &/or incriminating evidence…
\\
- July 20, 2012 at 20:01
-
Good post, Anna.
(Can I claim an “IGFirst by Proxy” – for posting that
quote (One view of the Question) on Gadget @01:23 20th July?)
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/k/kipling/rudyard/many/chapter5.html
- July 20, 2012 at 19:43
-
the doctor:
You must be seriously warped or at least one-eyed. I am very
glad I am not a patient of yours.
- July 20, 2012 at 17:36
-
I posted this on my site yesterday ;
Justice denied . AGAIN .
Once again the Police get away with manslaughter , aided by a cowardly jury
afraid to convict a policeman for fear of Police reprisals . How a not guilty
verdict could be delivered after seeing that video is beyond belief and all
reason .
It would appear that the Police are out of control and are above
the law of the land and are nothing but the Government’s bully boys and girls
; a likening of the Police to the Nazi S.A. is not unwarranted .
- July 20, 2012 at 19:50
-
Afraid of police reprisals?
And how, pray tell, do the police obtain the details of jury members? Or
do they wait by the back door of the court and smack them over the head when
they emerge?
A likening of you to a steaming pile of goat shit is not unwarranted.
-
July 20, 2012 at 20:09
-
Sorry Doc, exactly what part of the evidence have you seen that wasn’t
made available to the jury? I can only hope your ‘doctorate’ isn’t in
medicine! If it is, please tell me where you work so I can stay away. If,
as you appear to be doing so, you are comparing todays English Police
Forces with the Nazi SA, then I’m afraid you are slightly out of kilter. A
Nazi SA member would not have reached a court of law (same with KGB,
Stasi, Zimbabwe Security Service or the Somali Police Community Service
Officers). OK, I made the last one up, but in a totalitarian state, there
would never be a prosecution of a Police officer in such a case as that of
Harwood’s. However, all is not lost. Thanks to Devious Dave’s current
‘You’re My Favourite’, Tom Winsor, the new Inspectorate of Constabulary,
all future Police offiers will have a minimum of 3 ‘A’ levels (macrami,
domestic science and the history of Morris Dancing all count) so people
like Simon Harwood won’t have a look in. To add to this, as the number of
Police officers will be reduced by 45% over the next 5 years, this will
leave plenty of scope for firms like G4S (which Tom Winsor’s company is
acting for in consultation with Police Forces to increase the number of
private company personnel). Lincolnshire Police is all but taken over by
G4S as we speak so we will all have a grandstand view as to how this
forward looking programme will progress. So, the next time you find
yourself facing some knife wielding maniac who has broken into your house,
and you phone 999, you will probably end up with 3 G4S security staff (7
not bothering to turn up for work) or Police officers who will then
conduct a conversation with your intruder in the future of Cheryl Cole’s
fashion sense. Have fun!
-
July 21, 2012 at 22:51
-
“(7 not bothering to turn up for work) ”
That’s right blame the recruits because they’re not clairvoyant and
had no information from the company they were supposed to have been
recruited by.
On another point, do G4S security staff have any legal
standing? They are not police officers or servants of the Queen, just
Joe Bloggs in a military type uniform.
-
-
- July 20, 2012 at 22:37
-
But… Unpleasant and very probably excessive as PC Harwood’s actions were,
they did not cause/contribute to the death of Ian Tomlinson , as that fact
was not established to the criminal burden of proof, so he cannot be guilty
of manslaughter.
- July 20, 2012 at 19:50
- July 20,
2012 at 16:45
-
Indeed it is! My father occasionally used to read bits of it out to us when
the news made him think of it (such a shame blogging came along too late for
him – he’s have been a natural).
That was a long time ago and I had quite forgotten; I’m very grateful to
you for reminding me of it!
- July 20,
2012 at 16:25
-
A good choice of opening quote; followed to its source it yields this sequel, remarkably apposite for our
twitter-ridden society:
If one cries in the streets, ‘There has been an injustice,’ they take
him not to make complaint to those appointed, but all who pass, drinking his
words, fly clamorously to the house of the accused and write evil things of
him, his wives and his daughters; for they take no thought to the weighing of
evidence, but are as women. And with one hand they beat their constables who
guard the streets, and with the other beat the constables for resenting that
beating, and fine them.
- July 20, 2012 at 16:01
-
Most Police are decent public servants, but Harwood’s disciplinary record
doesn’t appear to be a shining beacon. I am curious as to why it seems that
details of Harwood’s past were excluded from the trial, when it seems to me
that his record has at least some relevance to this case.
Never the less, despite Harwood’s acquittal in court, his innocence will
not be understood in the “Court of Public Opinion”. Many people, and I am one
of them, will have decided that Harwood was little more than a thug when they
saw that video for the first time. Guilty of manslaughter or not, he should
not be a Police Officer if he acts like that on an innocent and non-aggressive
passer by. End of.
-
July 20, 2012 at 16:01
-
I just don’t understand this. Simon Harwood was Acquitted by a Jury who saw
all of The Evidence pertaining to this Case. Or are we to join The Court of
Public Opinion, albeit after The Case is resolved? This often happens in
America, but usually before The Trial, which I find very worrying. Although
heaven help Christopher Jefferies if he had ever been charged. Fortunately he
was innocent, but you might have wondered about this if you were reading The
British Press at the time.
But I thought that this particular Blog was
about The Public reaction to Simon Harwood’s Acquittal, and how The Public
view The Police under difficult circumstances, and not about his possible
guilt. He isn’t Guilty. A very proper Court of Law has said so.
Actually, I
don’t have a lot of time for The Police in general. But I do know a Court of
Law when I see one.
- July 21, 2012 at 22:35
-
“A very proper Court of Law has said so.”
Phew, that’s alright then! Because a Court of Law must be correct. Oh
wait, wasn’t there a young lad who was recently released after spending
EIGHT years in prison after the police lied and a “Court of Law” and Jury
“banged him up” for a brutal murder he didn’t commit?. Thank god we no
longer execute people or that would’ve been another pardon after the
fact.
The police lie – a lot, in the case of Harwood they said that they
were under threat from “rioters” when they obviouslyly were not, in the case
of the extra-judicial killing of Menezes they tried to claim he leaped over
a barrier and was non-cooperative etc – all found to be lies. How about
having that anything in a police statement should be considered as under
oath, and then prosecuted as perjury when they are found to have lied there
little cotton socks off?
It seems that quite a few of the respondents on
here have rose coloured spectacles and very little experience of the police
making up “the law” as they see fit.
- July 21, 2012 at 22:37
-
“their” – Doh!
- July 21, 2012 at 22:37
- July 21, 2012 at 22:35
- July 20, 2012 at 15:40
-
The policeman was charged with manslaughter.
One of the definitions of
manslaughter is where the reckless actions of A lead to the death of B. In
these circumstances the personality or previous lives or profession of either
A or B are of absolutely no importance.
The trial was concluded and the
policeman was acquitted. The end.
Surely the discussion should centre on
the how’s and why’s of the policeman’s unorthodox career pattern and his
continued employment in the Territorial support group.
- July 20, 2012 at 15:19
-
Well he was tried not guilty end of criminal case.
However in frames there does not be any one in charge supervising conduct
of officers who were under considerable stress.
Facing a line of rioters is not funny.
Surely it shoukd have been recognised if any offiicer was getting erratic
he should have been withdrawn from line – is this not what a junior NCO would
do in forces?
Surely there should have been a sergeant to seven officers and an inspector
above him supervising the activity.
In my view there needs to be review of command and control pretty damned
quick!
The recruitment training process also looks a shambles
To many graduates educated to the point of stupidity in higher ranks?
Su
-
July 20, 2012 at 16:10
-
“Facing a line of rioters is not funny” Funny thing is, they weren’t
rioters.
Wasn’t this during the G20 summit protests, where decent law abidng
people were being ‘kettled’?
-
July 20, 2012 at 22:01
-
You obviously know how to separate a load of people who intend to just
protest and cause no trouble that are stood next to another bunch of
people who are intent on causing trouble. What is your secret? Do you go
and ask each one individually? Maybe just pick on those with their faces
covered? Or the clothes they are wearing? The banners they are carrying?
Just like wherever there are large groups of people say at a football
match. Not all are interested in fighting but they are next to those that
are. It is impossible to separate one from the other. But…..you obviously
have loads of experience in doing just that!
- July 20, 2012 at 22:58
-
So treat all members of the public as worst case scenario ?
And
yet we are asked to believe that not all coppers are like Harwood
?
Will Harwood pull another sicky and leave before the disciplinary
hearing ?
-
July 20, 2012 at 23:06
-
The rules have changed and that particular ‘Exit’ has been firmly
slammed shut.
-
- July
21, 2012 at 05:59
-
I think we can safely say that someone shambling along with his back
to you and his hands in his pockets, who is clearly elderly into the
bargain, is quite easy to separate from those intent on causing
trouble.
- July 20, 2012 at 22:58
-
-
-
July 20, 2012 at 14:27
-
Very valid points Anna. Although the history of the man suggests he was
prone to over react. It was the allegations in resepct of road rage that
partocularly concerned me. “Allegations!” some may cry, but I think one can
take a reasonably pragmatic view on a pattern. On the other side of the coin,
we had all those riots last year with the Police, perhaps unsurprisingly,
unwilling to get “stuck in” because or either Health and Safety or being done
for brutality. It is a difficult line they have to walk. I have experienced
decent, sensible police men and women and stupid, officious one. I suppose
they reflect us, as they should. But I also agree that the procedural
“lynching” will now proceed. I am more cioncerned how he was allowed to
“retire” on medical grounds then re-emerge, and so forth.
- July 20,
2012 at 14:27
-
I thought bad character evidence was allowed under certain conditions
by the Criminal Justice Act 2003.
Perhaps Bushell’s Case should be
overturned after 340 years and juries should be forced to return verdicts
acceptable to those that know best but didn’t hear and see all the
evidence.
Finally, people are shocked by bad apples in the police because
they contrast so starkly with the other 99.99% of coppers of good charater who
do the job properly. If the police are given additional powers over their
fellow citizens then the Spanish Practices of the system, eg medical
retirements ahead of disciplinary proceedings, must be reformed and
recruitment vetting procedures (checking of referees, confirming the previous
five years’ history and investigating any allegations) rigorously applied.
- July 20, 2012 at 22:31
-
There was a bad character evidence application made by the CPS, but it
was refused by the trial judge.
- July 20, 2012 at 22:31
- July 20, 2012 at 13:11
-
At last, a common-sense, non-Police (therefore obviously biased), report on
this sad affair, from which no-one comes out of with any credit. One of the
really sad things about this is the continuing witch-hunt against Harwood
(we’ll keep putting him on trial until we get the right result!) by the IPCC
and the Tomlinson family. Debbie Glass has obviously made her mind up and the
Tomlinson family’s threat to seek action through the civil court means this
could run and run. Perhaps if the caring, obviously close-knit, Tomlinson
family had taken some interest in their father, and prevented him from living
on the streets for the past 5 years, he may be alive today. Some family! Their
shock and trauma were well displayed in the media and I suspect, possibly
cynically, this will remain right up to the point where the compensation
cheque clears. Compare this with the sad, but very gentle man in Birmingham
who didn’t have the result he wanted, yet accepted it and asked everyone else
to do the same.
- July 20, 2012 at 13:03
-
How are we supposed to know when we are in an area where the police have
suspended their duty of care and transitioned to anyone in the area may be
beaten to the ground mode?
We could try to leave the area when whenever see
policemen in riot gear just like Ian Tomlinson attempted to do .
- July 20, 2012 at 12:58
-
Yes, it is fairly clear that Tomlinson was a death waiting to
happen.
Here’s another Olympic Torch incident: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18920202
One can see that British (and global too) “society” has descended back into
the ‘mind-set’ of the mid 1970s during the last half decade or so.
The hope
is gone. The violence is back.
Now who could this benefit?
- July 20, 2012 at 17:29
-
I’m sorry, are you suggesting that the police officers intervention here
was thuggish?
I don’t understand the point you are trying to make.
- July 21, 2012 at 01:25
-
Study the video carefully, what you will see are three male officers
responding properly, the two female officers are apparently there to hold
hands. Along with many I would suggest they are physically incapable of the
correct response anyway.
If that is the kind of police force you want, you will quickly get it by
criticizing officers that respond at a moment of crisis. Will the response
always be correct? Of course not, but there is enough oversight to be
confident that your police are not thuggish.
- July
21, 2012 at 05:58
-
Sorry, Cascadian, but ‘moment of crisis’..?
“Officer in trouble! Shambling man not moving away fast enough! GO GO
GO!!!!’”
There was no ‘crisis’ there. It wasn’t even, as others have pointed
out, a ‘riot’. I’ve seen more threatening crowds at the New Year
sales.
-
July 21, 2012 at 06:30
-
Problem being Julia we have no insight into the perpetrators mind,
did the olympic torch snatcher mean to beat the runner with it?, the
police certainly responded with enough force to remove that possibility.
Did Harwood reasonably suspect that Tomlinson may have a hidden weapon
beneath his baggy tee-shirt? Most violence avoidance courses teach that
distance is your friend, were the police instructed to maintain a safe
perimeter in front of them?
You and I were not there Julia, we do not know what threats the
police line were told to expect or respond to. I suspect we both do not
know much about crowd control, or proper police protocols for moving
intransigent people along.
I am not siding with Harwood, his actions may have been over zealous,
what I am saying is that I am content to allow existing protocols and
hearings decide what is justifiable. We should also accept the fact that
there is a place for aggressive men policing our streets, indeed as
others have pointed out a more robust response to the recent Tottenham
riots may have been beneficial. Frankly I fear the type of policing
exemplified by the two female officers more than the occasional
Harwood.
- July 21, 2012 at 11:02
-
It doesn’t really matter what threats they were told to expect or
respond to initially, does it? They should have enough nous to realise
that if that dire threat doesn’t materialise, they don’t need to use
the force they would have applied.
And if distance truly is your friend, why not let the man walking
away continue to walk away?
I’m far, far more in favour of aggressive policing when needed than
you might imagine. I’m one of the ones pointing out the failure of
Tottenham!
- July 21, 2012 at 11:02
-
- July
- July 20, 2012 at 17:29
- July 20, 2012 at 12:51
-
I do not take issue with any of the points you raise, but one:
“Do you really want a world where every allegation ever made against you is
dragged up in court when you stand trial for something? I think not, currently
you have a system where not even previous convictions can be mentioned unless
you bring them up.”
We already have that system which covers over 50% of civil court cases and
which do not even rate a ‘trial’. It is in the Family Court where allegations,
nearly aways against a Father and even when proven false, are accepted as
‘likely’ on the ‘precautionary’ principle. False accusers are not even
prosecuted for purjury. As for prior convictions, they head the list on the
front page of the court documents.
I think we have to accept the reality of the Law being already discredited.
It is barely any wonder that the ‘upholders’ of the Law, whether seen as
serving the Queen or not, are distrusted and occasionally reviled, even by the
best of us.
Further, one might wonder about just what proportion of “devoted family
m(e)n, who through no fault of his own, driven by circumstances, and the
forces of a cruel, cruel, world, was reduced to sleeping rough on the streets,
sipping alcohol from a paper cup, and making his shambling, shy, smiling, way
home is driven into the path of a man who embodies true evil”, have actually
faced evil in the same Court before.
-
July 20, 2012 at 12:10
-
Jolly well said. I watched the video and Ian Tomlinson was behaving in a
provocative manner, cocky, actually, inviting intervention. Whether or not
this was cause to hit him I really wouldn’t like to say because I didn’t see
what went on before, but Simon Harwood certainly didn’t have time to ask after
his health or the state of his liver, which is almost certainly what killed
him. And he was drunk at the time. But I can’t help wondering what sort of
Compensation his “Family” would have been looking for if Simon Harwood had
been convicted. It won’t have been Loss of Earnings or Emotional Support for
his wife and children. Would it?
- July
20, 2012 at 12:24
-
What video were you watching? Can’t have been the one of Tomlinson ‘with
his hands in his pockets’
- July
20, 2012 at 12:51
-
I am ‘inviting intervention’ if I walk away from the police..?
We are in true Constable Savage territory here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y
-
July 21, 2012 at 13:40
-
‘with his hands in his pockets’—- very agressive behaviour indeed rom a
rolling drunk
I tried to join the Met but when they did background checks they found
that my parents were married so my application was rejected
- July
- July
-
July 20, 2012 at 12:09
-
- July 20,
2012 at 12:08
-
No, not all police are bastards. Far from it. That’s why it’s so important
to weed out the PC Harwoods from their ranks.
With his history, he was an accident waiting to happen. He should never
ever have been accepted back into the TSG. The Met is going to have to face
difficult questions on that one.
- July 20, 2012 at 12:34
-
Quite. It’s the bad apples that are not thrown out of the barrel that
lead the public (incorrectly) to believe they are all as bad as each other.
A policeman’s lot is not a happy one when it is made harder by other police,
and the public should not have to take a gamble on which type they are
dealing with.
- July 20, 2012 at 23:09
-
A
- July 20, 2012 at 23:09
-
Sorry, the above was a mistake.
- July 20, 2012 at 23:09
- July 20, 2012 at 23:09
- July 20, 2012 at 12:34
{ 101 comments }