You would think that when a trade requires a license before practitioners can work in it, that it increases safety for the customer. They can then enjoy the safety brought about by an organisation to which they can go to about complaints.

It might.

But it also increases barriers to entry into that trade. And usually when a trade’s body tries to get the state to impose a license for it’s workers, what they really want is to control the tradespeople and ensure that they pay for their license, and that non-licensed tradespeople are excluded from the good jobs. Such licensing is anti-competitive.

When you have the American Society of Interior Designers fighting for 30 years to get more regulation in it’s business claiming public health and safety is at risk from unlicensed interior design then you know that licensing is not about public health and safety. When you hear that the ASID can impose fines of thousands of dollars, in the four states that they managed to licenses imposed in, on anyone who calls themselves an interior designer (even just mentioning it on Big Brother) when they are not then you know that licensing is not about public health and safety. It’s all about creating barriers to entry into that trade.

It’s also censorship because people can’t call themselves by the type of work they do. This ends up with some calling themselves an Interior Architect rather than Interior Designer just to avoid the licensing scheme.

Those who have paid the fees and passed the exams to gain entry enjoy an uncompetitive advantage over others who might be just as skilled but who haven’t the funds to pay for the, usually expensive, exams. To those who have jumped through the hoops and loops, they have to keep paying for the license. This means that they have to charge their customers higher fees to cover their increased costs.

Another example again proves that licensing is not about health and safety. I know that this blog’s main customer group are UK based and this example is American, but it’s the principle that is the case here. In America cosmetologists (hair dressers to you and me) have to spend on average 372 days of training to be qualified and licensed. But Emergency Medical Technicians only need 33 days and two exams to get their qualifications.

When just reducing the licensing requirements for florists (which only exists in Louisiana) took many years and two legal cases it shows how wedded the trade organisations are to licenses. Their argument to keep licenses was that “If aspiring florists can’t take the instruction and pass the exam, how can they do an arrangement that you and I want to buy?” Ignoring the fact that if the customer doesn’t like the arrangement then they won’t buy it.

Here in the UK we have GasSafe, ex CORGI, licensing who can work with gas in the home. CORGI was setup in 1970 after a gas explosion in a block of flats at Ronan Point. However the problem with Ronan Point wasn’t the gas but the very flimsy building method along with badly joined concrete panels. Ronan Point wasn’t the only gas explosion caused by someone lighting a gas cooker and wasn’t the last either.

CORGI was initially voluntary, it was made compulsory in 1991. Basically it allowed CORGI to become a state sanctioned monopoly. In 2009 CORGI was replaced by GasSafe primarily to put in place more stringent measures of checking the engineer’s qualifications. But it hasn’t stopped houses blowing up due to problems with gas. Now it could be said that the houses which blow up do so because of the householder’s incompetence so it’s not the fault of GasSafe. But that is the point, the number of problems due to incompetent gas engineers are very small compared to those caused by householders.

A licensing scheme for electricians was also started after Part P of the building regulations came into force. The major point of whole campaign for imposing the licensing scheme was based on the case where an MP’s daughter was electrocuted by a screws which held up a metal shelf touching a cable. Though the builders were a bit slap-dash, Mary Wherry’s husband didn’t check that were he was screwing didn’t contain any cables. Now the cable wasn’t the mandatory 50mm deep when installed but when 25% of the housing stock in the UK were built before 1900 there will be many houses where electrical installations won’t be up to current standards. Part P licensing does nothing for them. I myself have been nearly electrocuted due to badly placed mains cable. And it’s imposition forced many skilled electricians out of work who had worked for their whole life but who couldn’t afford the extra cost of exams and joining fees.

So if I am against licensing how are the public going to be kept safe from rogue traders you ask. I argue that existing laws to do with responsibilities can ensure that trades people work to high standards. Also, to get repeat business they naturally have to do a good job otherwise they quickly go out of business. If traders don’t work responsibly it means that they get prosecuted for the deaths and injuries of their customers. That alone is enough of a force to keep nearly all workmen and women on the straight and narrow. It won’t catch all rogue trader but neither do licensing schemes.

SBML

Peter MacFarlane
May 18, 2012 at 08:43

Do it yourself.

Tell no-one.

How would they find out?

WinstonSmith
May 17, 2012 at 12:26

Back in 1977 I did a four year electrical apprenticeship including day
release at college to become a fully qualified electrician. Now to increase
safety, (yeah, right) we have more regulations and requirements (including
Part P). I have seen a training organisation offering to turn anyone who has
no experience in the electrical field into a fully qualified electrician
in………………SEVEN WEEKS!! If you require to be Part P qualified it’s another week,
so two months from no experience to wiring a new hospital ….or re-wiring the
Houses of Parliament.

Clarissa May 16,
2012 at 13:51

One of my parents’ best friends joined the British Gas (or whatever it was
back in the early 60s) out of school as an apprentice. By the time he was
finally (BG turned him down a few times) allowed to take voluntary redundancy
in his 50s and go self-employed he was a perfectly capable plumber and
electrician.

Until he stopped working he kept up his CORGI registration but the people
making sure he knew what he was doing were people he had himself trained.
Unsurprisingly the whole business was a formality albeit an annoying one which
cost him time and money.

Even his registration has lapsed he is the first point of call in the
family if there plumbing issue.

Surreptitious
Evil May 15, 2012 at 22:24

“But PCI DSS isn’t about generating income (that’s just a side effect).
It’s about Visa and Mastercard being able to claim that using their system is
secure.”

It’s about Mastercard, Visa, American Express and Discover being able to
avoid class-action law suits in the USA by pointing to PCI-DSS and saying “we
required them to be secure.” Not that PCI-DSS compliance has anything to do
with being secure.

I’m a Chartered Electrical Engineer and I’m legally not permitted to
replace a damaged wall socket in my house. Which, it has to be said, is up to
somewhat more modern standards than when it was built. Which was before they
had mains electric or wiring standards.

right_writes May
15, 2012 at 21:14

Have you got a licence for that blog SBML?

If not you can join SLOB (Society of Licenced Bloggers) following a
“learning path” and an annual membership fee.

Matt
Wardman May 15, 2012 at 21:34

I always think of blogs as BOLS.

Joe Public May 15, 2012 at 20:15

I’ve yet to read of a fatality caused by poor flower-arranging, or dreadful
colour co-ordination.

One of the major reasons for CORGI / GasSafe is the fact that a dangerously
fitted-or-maintained gas installation may have wide-area implications.

An illustrative example of the power & damage caused by a gas explosion
could be the Stockline factory explosion, killing 9 & injuring 33.

Caused by poorly maintained, underground LPG piping corroding, releasing
heavier-than-air LPG gas that came into contact with a source of ignition.

The factory owner had a “Risk Assessment” carried out by a student on a
holiday job.

If an idiot DIY’er blows up his own house, well so what. If an incompetent
‘engineer’ installs or maintains equipment in a factory you’re working in, or
a shopping centre you’re visiting, you expect a right to be safe.

Matt
Wardman May 15, 2012 at 21:33

I suspect that there are various Vicars buried in unmarked graves after
annoying the flower arranging ladies.

>If an idiot DIY’er blows up his own house, well so what.

Well, the person who buys from him will inherit the risk. If it’s buried
in the plasterwork, it can’t be checked.

(CF eg new regulations in rental property that a gas flue must now be
inspectable along it’s entire length by inspection hatches installed where
it is boxed in. This is as of a couple of months ago).

I’d concur on regulation for the sake of protecting the profession – eg
the sparks organisations lobbying for Part P.

There’s also a periodic effect. At present electrical junction boxes are
less popular, which means a gradual removal of all the existing junction
boxes.

In 25 years time junction boxes will be OK again, and they will gradually
get reinstalled.

Generally I’m fine with regulations on potentially dangerous
activity.

I get cross when reg A and reg B contradict each other.

Example: As a landlord I am required to supply fire alarms in a basic
rental. But I cannot supply battery operated alarms because if the tenant
removes them then is killed by a fire I may be liable for supplying
turn-off-able fire alarms.

By the same token, a wired in fire alarm is required to have it’s own
circuit in the fuse box, which means that it can be .. er .. turned off.

Joe Public
May 15, 2012 at 22:00

“I get cross when reg A and reg B contradict each other.”

Like in certain large factory/warehouse gas radiant heater
installations which demand that additional ventilation is mandatory if the
heaters have a flue, but, not if they’re flueless!

microdave May 16, 2012 at 10:41

Sorry JP – I know your connections and views on this aspect, but even
being a qualified person doesn’t guarantee the customers safety:
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/wrentham_gas_explosion_prosecution_sees_norwich_man_in_court_1_1378384

“He had no previous convictions and is still a Gas Safe registered
installer.”

I did some initial electrical work at a farm on the understanding that it
was “signed off” by registered contractors. Since then I have found a
catalogue of errors left behind by said contractors – one of which lead to a
small fire. Did I call them back? Did I hell, I sorted them out myself,
properly. They’ve since gone bust anyway…

Many years ago my employer had to go down the BS5750 route. I remember
being told that it wouldn’t necessarily make any difference to the service
provided to the customer, but if the firm eventually went bankrupt at least
they would be able to document HOW they went bankrupt!

cascadian May 15, 2012 at 19:22

The certification requirements of the florists and cosmetologists are
frivolous and probably anti-competitive barriers to entry. Even so we seem to
live in an age of credentialism where students pay good money to attend
university to study and receive certification in many frivolous jobs.
Bureaucracy rules OK.

After spending a lifetime in construction, I can relate to some of the
certification issues. Construction workers have a generally well-deserved
reputation for attracting the less educated strata of society and setting
standards and providing continuous supervision of most trades is no bad thing.
It is no surprise that this cohort also suffers the highest fatalities
on-the-job they are sometimes literally dangerous to be around, who in heaven
knows what is hidden in the unsupervised building structure without
supervision and standrds? Whether those standards should be government or
industry mandated is an interesting question, if government-controlled there
is a tendency to prefer volume of regulations over quality, whilst
industry-controlled regulations can easily be used as barriers to entry for
smaller poorly-financed start-ups. The consequence of a lack in standards is
evident when we see disastrous building collapses in places like Italy after
relatively mild earthquakes-the truth is that the good old ways were often the
easy and dangerous old ways.

The example of the interior designers is relevant, these practitioners tend
to attract “artsy” women who have tremendous skills when picking colour
schemes and throw cushions, but frequently are deficient in knowledge of
building codes, requirements for sprinklers, fire compartments, travel
distances for egress (have I jargoned you out yet) or other fire safety
requirements within high rise buildings.

OK I slanged women and construction workers there SBML, that should attract
some traffic.

JuliaM May 15,
2012 at 18:31

“Also, to get repeat business they naturally have to do a good job
otherwise they quickly go out of business. If traders don’t work responsibly
it means that they get prosecuted for the deaths and injuries of their
customers. “

Only if they are:

A) identifiable, and
B) catchable

I wonder if the European Arrest Warrant will come into play when Stanislav
cannot be found after the unfortunate incident with Mr Smith’s electric
toothbrush..?

Elena ‘andcart
May 15, 2012 at 18:25

Lucky old me. I work on The Black. But then I am a poverty stricken
Pensioner. And the rotters who take advantage of me are much more culpable
than I am. Not that one can do a lot of damage cutting grass.

PS. Welcome to The New Management. I shall miss Anna dreadfully, but you
all have done so well during this last year.

stab11 May 15, 2012 at 14:50

Don’t ever get me started on Part bloody P ! I’m not an electrician but I
work closely with them and hear many tales about it. The exam is entirely rote
learning so you need to memorise that a cable carrying X current needs to be
buried to a depth of Y or that over say 10 metres your cable can’t have a
resistance above say 0.5 ohms. Many of the older electricians have never been
able to pass the exam possibly because once you get over a certain age the
amount of total cr*p you can store in your brain is reduced. But you get
training companies who specialise is taking anyone of the street (who can
afford a few thousand pounds) ramming the required knowledge and nothing more
into their brains before quickly having them sit the exam and quite often
pass.

As a result I have seen quite a few cases where the older unqualified men
do the wiring work all week then on Friday afternoon someone in his 20′s
appears who last year was selling car insurance down the phone but passed the
exam. He then certifies their work (rarely even looking at it since he
wouldn’t know what he was looking at anyway) and the job is done.

Last year I was trying to supervise a group of younger qualified
electricians to do a job that required certain aspects of the work to be done
to a higher level of safety than the regulations require due to the dangerous
procedures that went on in the building. I tried to explain this to them but
might as well have told my cat for all the good it did. All they knew was how
to regurgitate the regulations but didn’t understand why I was wanting things
doing differently. In the end I waited till they had gone and redid parts of
it myself.

Harbinger an ex-colleague of mine was an ex doors also and told me that all
the Eastern Europeans had to do was show their passport to get their badge
since the Police had no way of finding out what they had done back home.

SadButMadLad
May 15, 2012 at 15:52

I’ve re-wired three houses. Each time I had to get a proper certified
electrician in to check my work. Every time they could only find the most
minor fault (e.g. a label not written properly) just to justify their
job.

Thankfully I didn’t need to pay for the building control certificate just
for the re-wiring as a lot more work was being done on each property so the
electrical work was included. Otherwise that would be £100 or so on it’s
own.

wassname May 15, 2012 at 17:50

I had rewired a few houses, part of a hotel, garages, sheds, gardens,
cars and household appliances for over 35 years until the last wiring job I
did as a favour for anybody in 2003 just before Part ‘P’. It was my hobby; I
enjoyed doing it as a distraction. I volounteered as an ‘emergency
electrical’ warden for the local neighbourhood watch so that if an elderly
couple has a fuse blown or somethingon a Sunday, I would help them out. I
resigned in 2003. My day job was working with 11000 volt equipment for the
supply industry where safety was paramount. It seems ironic that it was Part
‘P’ that made me part ‘P’olitically aware and I’ve watched the ratchet of
regulation invade our freedoms ever since. An Englishman’s home is now
somebody else’s castle because he’s not allowed to install the defences he
needs. As someone who has always ‘done for myself and mine’ I now feel
castrated,my tool is no longer used,if you take my meaning!

drsolly
May 15, 2012 at 14:37

I run a Secure Server, taking credit card info. To do that, I have to pass
a test called the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard, PCI DSS. This
can cost quite a lot, although as I do most of the work myself for this, the
cost mostly isn’t visible (my time), although some of it is (the cost of
getting it tested).

I had to renew it last week. Part of the renewal is to submit the Secure
Server to a test by a third party (that’s done every three months).

It failed. Modifying the software to make it pass didn’t look possible (or
at least, I couldn’t see how to do it). I then had to spend days on setting up
a new Secure Server, and that also failed. After much research, I found that
the problem (a security issue called BEAST, first discovered in September
2011, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/27/beast_attacks_paypay/)
is a very common problem, and very difficult to deal with (but very unlikely
to affect users), because it’s really a problem with your browser, not my
server. But I still have to pass the PCI DSS test. Because they say so.

After a long time, I worked out how to make my Secure Server pass the test,
so now I’m certified again. In the course of doing that, I had discussions
with other people in the security field, and they told me that I’m not the
only one having big problems with this, and that many of the big banks haven’t
passed.

Huh. So I tested Paypal. And if Paypal were to submit to the test for
credit card acceptance that I (and I thought everyone else) has to pass, then
they would fail.

I didn’t test any of the banks. If you want to know if they pass, you could
ask them, but I suspect they wouldn’t (although I would guess that the person
you ask, wouldn’t know that).

But PCI DSS isn’t about generating income (that’s just a side effect). It’s
about Visa and Mastercard being able to claim that using their system is
secure.

Security professionals call this sort of thing “Security theatre”.

Harbinger May 15, 2012 at 13:39

I used to work on doors. I started around 18 back in ’89. I was paid 12.50
ph, not taxed and needed no license. The skills needed were to be able to
handle yourself. The police also left you alone.

I moved to London and decided to continue. I was told I needed a license
and not just any license but work-area specific. If I worked in the west End I
needed a Westminster City License. If I worked in Shoreditch I needed a
Hackney License etc etc and to obtain permission to get a license all doorman
had to do a course. This all cost money and it went straight into the coffers
of local councils, corrupt, local councils.

I stopped working on doors back in 2005. It was pointless. Door companies
had sprung up all over the place like weeds. They’d get a door contract and
undercut each other but the average was around 13/14 UK sterling a man. They
paid their doorman much less. Doorman then, because of a license paid tax.
Their background checked and final interviews to obtain a license were with
the police. Bottom line people who were unable to handle themselves and stop
trouble became doorman. The cheaper wages (some got 5) attracted floods of
former Soviet block europeans.

Now they have an S.I.A. badge. This allows you to work all over the UK and
costs around 300. However anyone who works in the public eye where restraint
may be required needs one. And this is and always has been about generating
income. It’s also bolstered the police stat as pigs are always hanging around
like a bad smell. I laugh when I see most doormen today.

Mike Spilligan
May 15, 2012 at 13:17

Three or four years ago I was talking to an ex-CORGI man who told me that
the compulsory annual updating (costing £000s per company and per operative)
was mostly going through the motions on safety. What was more relevant was
that any changes to the rules gave everyone a chance to go back to clients and
push for sales covering “the latest safety standards” – trying to imply that
existing installations – some installed within that year – had somehow become
unsafe. Every change was an “opportunity” to make money on the basis of
fear.