Black and White | Plain Speaking.
Whoa! Haven’t we all got our knickers in a twist? So much so that I find myself in agreement with Keith Vaz – not quite sure what the long term effects on my health that will be – probably detrimental.
The brouhaha stems from the jail sentences handed down yesterday to Mohammed Liaqat, 28, and Abid Saddique, 27, at Nottingham crown court after being found guilty at a trial in November of charges including rape. Saddique was jailed for at least 11 years while Liaqat will be locked up for at least eight years. The pair were the ringleaders of a gang that groomed and abused girls aged from 12 to 18.
It is not the jail sentences that are the cause of so much comment – commendably severe – but the subsequent comments regarding the racial profile of the offenders.
Jack Straw MP for Blackburn was first out of the box, giving succour to Nick Griffin’s oft trumpeted views regarding Muslim paedophile gangs by saying “there is a specific problem which involves Pakistani heritage men … who target vulnerable young white girls. We need to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this way.”
Keith Vaz countered with “”I disagree with Jack Straw … I don’t think you can stereotype an entire community.”
Indeed, I don’t think that you can – stereotype an entire community of 12 and 14 year old girls. Nor do I think that Jack Straw is right in saying that the solution is “to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this way.”
Not all 12 to 14 year old girls are wandering the streets late at night, believing that someone buying you a can of fizzy pop should be rewarded with a kiss and a cuddle in the back seat of their car which then gets seriously out of hand, watched by their goggle eyed friends. Not all 12 to 14 year old girls are standing on the street corner ready to be targeted.
That is not to exonerate the offenders in this case at all – every paedophile should be prosecuted; nor is it to lay any blame on the girls involved.
However, rather than feed into the anti-Muslim rhetoric and blame the Muslim community for not controlling their young men – how about looking to the parents of those young girls, and speaking to the white community in these areas?
Jack Straw correctly points out that the 12 to 14 year old girls in the Muslim community are off limits – how is that? Do they not walk to school; do they not pass young men in the street? Of course they do, with their heads held high and an attitude of total disdain, instilled in them from childhood, that anything less than a decent marriage is out of the question. A can of fizzy pop isn’t going to lure them round the back of an abandoned block of flats, nor is the offer of drugs or other gifts.
They are also routinely escorted by Brothers, and Fathers, part of a life time’s training that you look after your young people.
The difference with the girls ‘targeted’ in Jack Straw’s words, is that many of them are from broken homes, in care, unloved, unwanted, uncared for, unprotected. They have no self respect, no pride in themselves – how could they? No one ever took the time to give it to them.
The solution, Jack me boy, is to get the white community to be more open about the problems that are leading large numbers of Anglo-Saxon young girls to be that vulnerable in the first place, to lay themselves open to being ‘targeted’.
Feeding into the BNP rhetoric might conceivably eventually ensure that we never see a Pakistani offender jailed for a similar offence again – but it won’t cure the problem of a swathe of young children, drinking, smoking and taking drugs, out in our streets late at night, half dressed and willing to exchange favours for paltry gifts with any racial group of young men cruising the streets looking for willing victims.
The judge said that he thought that the race of the victims was ‘coincidental’ – I don’t.
There are millions of white 12 to 14 year olds who are not being ‘groomed’ – because they are at home with their parents, finishing their home work, tucked up in bed. As they should be. They are children.
Let’s put our own house in order before we start campaigning for the BNP just days before the Saddleworth and Oldham East by-election, shall we Jack?
January 11, 2011 at 10:58
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Off topic re your post, but on a related subject you may (or may not) find
interesting:
- January 10, 2011 at 12:52
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Anna,
In this case I totally disagre with you. In response to your thoughts of
equality. I present to you facts of the bigotry through out the Islamic world.
I would be delighted for you to respond with your own facts.
http://www.energypublisher.com/article.asp?id=45064
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a-sxcF0QIo
- January 10, 2011 at 13:05
- January 10,
2011 at 11:09
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I wonder if you’ve seen Yasmin Alibhai-Brown’s column in the ‘Independent’
today?
Sorry, no link, I’m on my iPhone. But it’s quite remarkable. Not what I
expected from her AT ALL.
- January 10, 2011 at 13:20
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- January
10, 2011 at 13:36
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Cheers!
It is of course possible to do links on the iPhone, but it’s a bit of a
palaver. And I’m lazy…
- January 9, 2011 at 20:09
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I live in the consituency next to Jack Straw’s and I can tell you Anna a
big part of the problem is that here in Lancashire and Yorkshire we have a
substantial minority of the Muslim community that has simply declined to
accept the mores of their host nation.
Only a few months ago my son’s girlfriend had trouble with a cab driver who
decided tht as she was out with her sisters and no man, was showing her arms
and legs and her hair was not covered she was a prostitute. He demanded sex
for the ride home. Debbie had the presence of mind to say that if he took her
home he could go in with her. She then texted ahread and David, six feet and
built like the proverbial brick outhouse, was waiting. And backup was arriving
because he has a lot of friends nearby.
There have however been too many rape cases in the area resulting in
convictions of Pakistani taxi drivers. Unfortunately the people convicted
serve their time and on release are straight back behind the wheel of a
cab.
So let’s not be mealy mouthed and try to shift blame onto White society. In
doing that we are doing the majority of Indian and Pakistani people no favours
but would be doing Nick Griffin a big one. We know British society has a lot
of problems so we do not need to be creating new ones.
- January 9, 2011 at 19:08
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Since when did children of 12 become responsible for being raped.
Every single pedo uses tricks and lures but suddenly because the attackers
are Pakistani we aree looking for reasons.
It is quite simple. White Girls are infidels and they have no status or
value within Pakistani Muslim society. Therefore they can be raped without
this being an issue for the parents, friends of the attackers.
It is Islamic law that Pakistani girls can only be raped within
marriage.
The problem is how these people view women. “Fields to be ploughed” I
believe is what the clerics call it.
This happens everywhere in the world where there are large numbers of
Muslim men in contact with infidel girls. Muslim girls are kept away from the
men. If they are raped the father kills the girl to preserve the honour of the
family.
This is not new. It is a cultural reality for hundreds of years.
- January 9, 2011 at 17:07
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Instead of agreeing with Keith Vaz and siding against the victims, maybe a
little more investigation could be done into what is really going on on our
streets. For example, why is a convicted rapist cab diver in Bradford allowed
to continue working as a cab driver??
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/32-Bradford-cabbies-convicted-of.6540436.jp
Would
you feel safe getting in a minicab in Bradford?
- January 9, 2011 at 17:25
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Perhaps Mr Holly, instead of reading the Yorkshire Post, you might like
to spend more time reading my post and explaining to me where you think that
I even so much as hinted at ‘siding against the victims’.
- January 9, 2011 at 18:12
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Will this do? “the 12 to 14 year old girls in the Muslim community…
walk to school… pass young men in the street… with their heads held high
and an attitude of total disdain… anything less than a decent marriage is
out of the question. A can of fizzy pop isn’t going to lure them round the
back of an abandoned block of flats, nor is the offer of drugs or other
gifts.”
- January 9, 2011 at
18:35
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I take it then Zaphod that you aren’t in favour of the community to
which the victims belong taking a hard look at themselves to see just
why those girls became vulnerable to such approaches?
I’m not blaming
the girls – I’m blaming the society that left them so ill equipped to
deal with life.
Any suggestion to you that the background of those
girls might be to equally to blame is ‘siding against the victims’ –
nothing less than outright absolute condemnation of the perpetrators
with no other factor to be considered is your requirement yes?
But
that’s fine – you can have out right condemnation from me of the
Pakistani perpetrators and their countrymen, I can go along with that.
Lets hang ‘em all, castrate them, kick ‘em out of the counrty. Yep, its
all the fault of their culture.
Now, is it OK now to drape our town
centres with half dressed 12 year olds who are prepared to do anything
for a fag and a can of Stella – happy to see your 12 year old join them,
think they will be safe now?
I sure as Hell don’t.
I reckon one of
our home grown paedophiles will be along for them like the proverbial No
12 bus – then who are you going to blame?
My point has always been
that Jack Straw was making a thoroughly opportunistic staement that
merely fed into the BNP rhetoric immediately before an important
neighbourhood by-election. If I really believed that 12 year old girls
were ONLY at risk from gangs of Muslim men of Pakistani heritage as he
puts it, then I would be the first to applaud him for speaking
out.
What I won’t do is aplaud him for making a statement which
appears to read as though it is only the responsibility of the Pakistani
communtiy to reign in their young men and change their attitudes and the
problem is solved. Especially when as an ex Home Secretary he knows
better than that.
The vulnerability of an entire generation of young
girls – and boys – the problem is not restricted to girls by any means –
who have been brought into this world, kicked out into state care, fed,
watered and had a roof put over their heads by way of an ‘upbringing’
and left with no notion of self respect or ability to see what is good
for them is nothing short of shameful and a responsible politician would
have been saying that all communiteis need to look
at what is happening to their young people and talk openly about the
problems.
An irresponsible politician would just appeal to the knee
jerk reaction of ‘look what those dirty Paki’s are doing to our
innoncent young girls’. Cheap.
-
January 9, 2011 at 19:29
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Anna, I refer you to my earlier comment.
“There is no easy
answer here. Sometimes, the best lesson is, shit happens.”
I’m not laying blame on any group. I don’t think this example
warrants any knee-jerk reactions.
Okay, I don’t really imagine that you were blaming the victims. But
some are gonna take it that way.
I think you were blaming our
society, and the parents. But I’m a parent, and I didn’t guard my
daughter totally. She had a lot of freedom. Freedom and security are
mutually incompatible. I take some risks for freedom. And shit
happens.
- January 9, 2011 at 14:53
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You really need to start seeing this attitude to women in its wider context
within Islam. There are many and numerous clips on youtube, maybe you should
begin your education by searching for “How to beat your wife”. And no, I don’t
believe in using the “cultural relativism” excuse for barbaric attitudes,
especially in these days of a divided multicultural Britain.
- January
9, 2011 at 12:20
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At least we can all agree that Jack Straw is an odious hypocrite.
- January 9, 2011 at 12:14
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Suppose it were true, (it seems to be), that in some areas, Pakistani lads
were more likely to rape young girls. Then what?
If we study all of the
rape statistics, we’ll find lots of risk factors. Being male, of course. But
there will be lots of smaller groupings to generate extra suspicion. Loners
and misfits. Middle-aged men married more than 20 years? Funny-looking guys?
Train spotters? Whatever. Should these groups all attract suspicion and
special measures?
Similar groups can be found among the victims.
What social engineering do you want to do? Some new laws, and
beaurocracies? A few new fake charities, nudging?
There is no easy answer here. Sometimes, the best lesson is, shit
happens.
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January 10, 2011 at 09:51
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There is some sand over there, should just about fit your head.
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January 9, 2011 at 10:42
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This reminds me a little of blaming theft on those those that forget to
lock up.
- January 9, 2011 at 07:02
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I was listening to Ken Livingstone and David Mellor discussing this topic
yesterday and they like others in ‘charge’ or with ‘a voice’ utterly refuse to
face reality.
Everybody knows that had this been a gang of white men
picking only on Asian or black girls the racial element would have been
highlighted and the sentencing would be more severe.
Its the continuous
denials of the Police, CPS and indeed M.P.s of this existing that makes it
more of a problem.
Or perhaps elderly folk shouldn’t be allowed to walk to
the shops because they are easy victims? They should know better and stay
indoors.
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January 9, 2011 at 01:05
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My children are teenagers and while they hate that we live on the edge of
the middle of nowhere, I am glad that we do. We live an what amounts to an
inconvenient distance from all my childrens’ friends, meaning that they
couldn’t in the past, and can’t now, just announce they are ‘popping’ out to
so-and-so’s house. Once they are home for the night, they are home for the
night and most-times that’s 4.00pm. Then it’s all biscuit-tin raids and
helping themselves to ‘mini-dins’ before my grudging gesture towards
home-cooking eventually hits the plate at 7.30.
They hate where we live, I love it, not least because they aren’t going to
‘just pop over to so-and-so’s’ : they are hardly going to call on the elderly
couple in the only other house in the neighbourhood are they?
We don’t live on an estate or indeed anywhere near any other people they
think to be human. If we didn’t live where we do, I can’t say with any
certainty that my own teenage girl wouldn’t have taken to flouncing out of the
house whenever the mood took her, claiming to be ‘popping over to so-and-so’s’
when she was in fact hanging around outside the chip-shop giving her Facebook
and mobile details to anyone who’d take them.
I thank my lucky stars that each time my teenage girl flees the room in an
incandescent rage, it’s upstairs and not out of the door into the wild blue
yonder.
It’s easy to condemn parents for not controlling their children. I’m just
so thankful that, as yet, my darling girl hasn’t stormed out into the night
just to prove a point.
And I think, so far, that’s down to the fact that we live on the edge of
the middle of nowhere.
- January 8, 2011 at 23:30
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From the outside the UK seems to have done everything it can to cause
social unrest and fragmentation.
Teach children promiscuity, make marriage
a high economic risk, encourage idleness, import conflicting social groups,
pervert the police to political ends, always give the devil the hearing in any
argument and of course break the country up into little bits.
What more do
you need.
- January 10, 2011 at 21:09
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yes – but apart from that we have it about right……
- January 8, 2011 at 21:54
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Human nature can go a long way to offering some explaination of such
things.
If young men, surging with testosterone as young men do, grow up in an
environment where they are barely allowed to look at young women, much less
talk to them and understand that they are people too, some of them will seek
an outlet for all that pent up frustration. (Most will learn to control
themselves, as most of us do – it’s called maturing.)
If young women grow up in an atmosphere of uncontrolled sexualisation, the
naive among them may not realise the provocative nature of their actions in,
for example, wearing short skirts to impress thei mates with how grown-up they
are.
Put the two groups together, and a problem is bound to arise – as it
has.
The answer must come from both directions. Better understanding of
sexuality and humanity by both ‘communities’ – but that’s easier said than
done.
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January 8, 2011 at 21:14
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Been out most of the day in Whitest Devon.
This is Jack Straw all over- the slimiest of the cynical slime.
Remember the ‘I will not talk to women wearing Burqhas in my surgery’ this
is just another ‘I am with the white working classes, salt of the earth our
racism is ‘ better’ than the BNP racism.
This is nothing to do with Asians grooming our white vestal virgins, its
about votes in Oldham, the whole thrust of keep Oldham Labour campaign is to
defeat the other far left party the BNP.
- January
9, 2011 at 05:42
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“Remember the ‘I will not talk to women wearing Burqhas in my surgery’
…”
I remember it. I’m always likely to remember it, too, because it marks
the one and only time that I’ve ever agreed with anything Straw had to
say!
- January 9, 2011 at 20:29
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It was actually the Niqab he objected to and he had every right to do
so.
- January 8, 2011 at 18:38
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Good post Anna, thought provoking. You made your point very well, it’s
surprising there is so much comment here taking issue with points you didn’t
actually make.
- January 8, 2011 at 19:03
- January 8, 2011 at 18:17
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“There are millions of white 12 to 14 year olds who are not being
‘groomed’ – because they are at home with their parents, finishing their home
work, tucked up in bed. As they should be. They are children.”
Exactly so. Ensuring this happens is one of the first duties of
parenthood.
- January 8, 2011 at 18:02
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I do feel in something of a minority on all this – I can’t see that we must
provide such excuse and get out for the young – and not-so-young – men –
running these ‘gangs’. The argument is a bit like the old rapist’s defence –
“look at how she was dressed, m’lud, she asked for it.”
Nor is it an excuse to say that – as the song goes – some girls will and
some girls won’t. Otherwise we arrive at the Heinz Kiosk – “WE ARE ALL GUILTY”
– position which is plainly nonsense.
The problem at the root of all this is attitudes towards women – are they
things or real people. Too many young men – from all kinds of background –
seem to think women are for shagging, babies and cooking and not much
else.
- January 8, 2011 at 18:15
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Simon,
I agree that attitudes towards women, and those deemed
acceptable by women are at the root of all this.
Tempting as it is to
just heap blame on the heads of the offenders, who richly deserve it, I
simply don’t accept that the problem will go away merely by addressing these
Pakistani gangs. A start yes, but it sounds as though people are saying ‘we
shouldn’t have to take responsibility for our 12 year old children, they
should be able to run wild in the street and cadge drink and fags off anyone
at midnight without coming to any harm’.
- January 8, 2011 at 22:27
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OK. Here’s an interesting point (and one we had some very very
interesting debates about in Bradford – sadly I can’t give details): a
number of these young women are reported to have been in local authority
‘care’. So it wasn’t mum by the state letting them run around loose, so to
speak.
There is a real issue with corporate parenting and moral management (as
it were) – many social workers won’t even give contraceptive advice let
alone manage access effectively.
- January 8, 2011 at 17:20
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Anna, I fully take your point that parents are often to blame for letting
their children run wild, and that they should not be out on the streets so
late. However, not all the targetting and grooming is “on the streets ” late
at night, a lot of it is in shopping centres and involves older children from
the same school etc then the victim being “passed on ” to uncles and older
cousins etc. Ann Cryer MP for Keighley (from memory) did keep trying to raise
this issue but oddly enough was largely ingnored by the MSM and Home Secretary
Jack “The Weasel” Straw….
The
Penguin.
- January 8, 2011 at 17:56
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I am under the impression, possibly wrongly, that a lot of these kids are
in care. I read on the Beeb “Often they were from challenging backgrounds”
which I take as code for in care.
If I am right then parents are not directly to blame in many of the cases
but our high quality caring professions.
- January 8, 2011 at
18:00
- January 8, 2011 at 16:40
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These muslims are not targetting white girls specifically, they are
targetting infidels. Young Sikh girls are as much at risk as white British
girls are.
Get off your high horse Anna and actually look at the statistics
that have been deliberately covered up for so long. It is insulting to group
these muslims together with Asians. There are not gangs of Indians targetting
British girls to either rape or convert them to their religion.
Stop
throwing in red herrings such as the BNP To their credit, they highlighted
this problem long before the media would admit to it.
This is more of an
islamic supremacist problem than a racist one. You are not helping one little
bit by making excuses for islamic attitudes to Westerners! Shame on you. I
really thought you were someone with common sense and the courage to call a
spade a spade!
- January 8, 2011 at 17:28
- January 8, 2011 at 16:12
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I agree that the White parents deserve a b…. good rollocking for allowing
their daughters to get into these scrapes in the first place. I know it’s not
easy, being a good parent never is.
BUT we must also understand the culture of the attacker if we are to
understand the crime, and thus prevent its further repetition. And the
relevant ideology is Islam. Muslims revere Mohammed as the only man whose
example is perfect for all time, and are enjoined today to emulate this
perfect example. One of those examples is his marriage to Aisha when she was
six, and the consummation of that marriage when Aisha was nine years old.
Islam also requires that females must be closely guarded by an appropriate
male (ie father, brother, or husband) and must cover themselves to show
submission to that male.
In the eyes of all those who have been brought up in this belief system and
its Sharia law, it is therefore quite correct that uncovered unaccompanied
females are indeed prostitutes and should be treated as such so long as they
are of marriageable age (ie over the age of nine), and especially if they are
Kafir (non believers in Islam). Their behaviour has in fact been exemplary.
Remember that statement by an Australian Imam about “uncovered cat meat”? He
was being serious.
And as their belief also calls for Sharia to reign supreme over all the
world, by force if necessary, they will probably consider themselves very hard
done by to have been given this “unjustified” (ie not Sharia compliant)
punishment. But at least it will have given them an eight year uninterrupted
opportunity for Da’wa (Islamic proselytizing) at the taxpayer’s expense. We
can be reassured by that.
- January
8, 2011 at 16:52
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Actually, I’ve seen lots of blogs and discussions about this, and there’s
an automatic assumption that these victims were all Anglo-Saxon (White)
girls. But were they?
- January 11, 2011 at 03:21
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JuilaM, the only information that I could find on this was from the CEO
of the victim support group, ‘Coalition for the Removal of Pimping’,
(CROP):
“We’ve been working over the last 7, 8, 9 years with over 400 families
and of those families – mostly in the NW, and the NE and the Midlands but
not entirely so – 96, 97% …are white and in terms of the perpetrators
those gangs in the vast majority are from Pakistani Asian origin.”
http://foundavoice.blogspot.com/2011/01/victimhood-poker-no-laughing-matter.html
Cheers,
FAV
- January 12, 2011 at 10:22
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I think you are speaking of wahhabism a reform muslim ideology that
existed in the past century from Saudi.
Its very hard to believe such criminals would be the pious type that come
to mosque and pray 5 times each day.
some issues you raised are of that ideology and have no regard to the
Quran, as they would funnily quote from it, and then say “except in ….” and
would recite why this teaching doesn’t apply for whatever manufactured
reasoning.
The only matter I would specifically reply to, is that the idea of women
wearing modestly as it also applies to men, except that men don’t cover
their hair. Actually In the Quran God (as I believe) addresses women
individually, rather than to submit to man, but about morality and
righteousness. alot of this issue is mentioned in the chapter of the light
in the quran if you are really interested in getting ahead in information.
Anything else you mention are part of this reform, which are completely
false and thank god, only few individuals adhere to it in comparison with
the general population as I experienced it.
- January 8, 2011 at 14:57
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I love the logic on display here – because many of these girls are from
broken homes then it is the fault of the white English community that they are
being gang raped by Muslim paedophiles. Brilliant. Surely before denying there
is a problem as per Keith Vaz, we need to look at the numbers – from a total
of 56 convictions, 53 of the defendants were Asian. We could do with a
thorough examination of statistics, but as with gun and knife crime in our
cities, anyone drawing conclusions is likely to be denounced as racist. So
lets not get our hopes up anything will actually get done.
Unfortunate though it is there will always be broken homes and the
resulting societal problems, as you will find anywhere in the world. So your
argument is patently ridiculous. Yes, there are vulnerable girls on our
streets, but the blame should be squarely on the shoulders of the paedophile
rapists. To deny that is to follow the sick culture prevalent in Muslim
countries of blaming the women who are raped, and in fact prosecuting and
punishing them.
Finally, you aren’t comparing like with like, the English culture and
community with Pakistanis, in your little argument about blame. Do a quick
search on Aasia Bibi to get a bit of a flavour of what we are dealing with
here.
- January 8, 2011 at 15:16
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No, that isn’t the logic that is on display here. Neither is it the logic
on display here that it is all the fault of those nasty Muslims. See my
earlier reply to Wrinkled Weasel.
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January 8, 2011 at 16:06
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er, no, you state “our own communtiy must take its share of the blame
for letting those girls become that vulnerable in the first place”. Which
is the exact point I was disagreeing with.
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January 8, 2011 at 16:11
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as for your other point about crime going down if we were to return
Britain to the more homogenous society we had until very recently, I
don’t know. Perhaps you’d like to ask the parents of Ben Kinsella, Mary
Anne Lenaghan, Tim Robinson, Nicholas Pearton, Tom ap Rhys Pryce and the
countless others like them what they think?
-
January 8, 2011 at 16:17
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The driving ideology of these criminals tells them “never take a
Kafir for a friend”. An homogenous society is impossible while they
insist on holding themselves in segregation, ready for the imposition
of Sharia, and our relegation to the status of “the worst of all
beings”.
- January 8, 2011 at 16:50
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And what is ‘our own community’? Is it White people? And are ‘White
people’ the same over, from Cornwall to Cumberland?
If that’s what you mean, Anna, why not say so? Using terms like ‘our
own community’ is just as wrong as anyone stereotyping the Pakistani
‘community’ ..
- January 8, 2011 at
17:22
- January 8, 2011 at 18:41
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“What I mean by ‘our community’, is the rest of the population
minus Jack Straw’s ‘Pakistani community’..”
So, that includes the Sikh community, the Hindu community, the
strict West Indian community, Welsh Baptists, Orthodox Jews….
All of them known for their attitudes to underage sex and ‘decent’
behaviour before marriage. Sorry, Anna, but there’s really no
homogenous ‘other community’ to set against the Pakistani one that
Jack Straw is speaking about there.
- January 8, 2011 at 19:02
- January
8, 2011 at 14:41
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Perhaps worth nothing the experiences of ex PC Philip Balmforth in this
context:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3642686.ece
- January 8,
2011 at 14:17
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“Nor do I think that Jack Straw is right in saying that the solution is
“to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is
going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number
of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this
way.””
Overall across the country? Perhaps not.
But it does seem to be a particular problem in this area, since out
of 56 men convicted in the Midlands and north of England since 1997, 50 were
from Muslim backgrounds.
- January 8, 2011 at 18:54
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50 out of 56 is an overwhelming percentage and it is is only through the
cowardice that ‘political correctness’ has infected us with that no-one in a
position of authority will dare state the truth for fear of his/her
job/personal safety. This includes the judiciary, the police, the probation
service, most of the posts in the welfare state and our spineless
parliamentarians. I’m actually quite surprised the the term ‘white’ was
openly used for the girls.
- January 12, 2011 at 09:52
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Just out of curiosity since 1997, only 56 men ever went to jail in the
Midlands and the North?
- January 8, 2011 at 14:10
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You have buried your head in the sand Anna because the truth offends your
liberal sensibilities.
http://wrinkledweasel.blogspot.com/2011/01/british-establishment-says-its-time-to.html
- January 8, 2011 at 15:10
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When you have wolves attacking your sheep, you eradicate the predatory
wolves.
- January 8, 2011 at
15:17
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You also fence in your sheep.
- January 8, 2011 at 16:47
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And then you have to provide them with an alternate food source, and
treatment for the problems confinement brings, etc…
- January 8, 2011 at 16:51
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Which still leaves the wolves free to find other victims.
- January 8, 2011 at 17:46
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Or fence out the predator. 20 mile moat between the sheep and the
wolves should fix it.
- January 8, 2011 at 23:52
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20 mile moat round Derby? … yeah ok, sounds good to me.
- January 8, 2011 at 15:14
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Actually No! You are all missing the point here. It is
not a matter of whether the girls were to blame or the men. I was
specifically addressing the question Jack Straw raised as to whether it was
solely the Muslim community who were responsible for ‘taming’ their men. I
would argue that our own communtiy must take its share of the blame for
letting those girls become that vulnerable in the first place.
Yes, it is
a specific problem in the Bradford area, an area with a high proportion of
young Muslim men – but even if the BNP were to be granted their wish and
every Muslim was forced to leave the country – do you not imagine that thsoe
girls would still be at risk? We have our own home grown paedophiles too –
so clouding the issue with a knee jerk reaction that the Muslim community
must ‘do something’, and if the filthy Muslims weren’t here, those nice 12
year olds would be able to walk the streets at midnight and nothing would
ever happen to them is just rhetoric, we also must ‘do something’.
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January 8, 2011 at 15:38
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The racism here is two way: Muslim men police their women fiercely.
White girls are seen as more vulnerable and are therefore targeted for
grooming precisely because they are white and from a culture with a looser
view of sexuality. White people therefore come to see Muslim men as
predators. Both are based on stereotypes.
- January 8, 2011 at 18:01
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I’ll take a decent bet that most of the vulnerable girls are either in
care, in foster homes or have grown up without their biological fathers,
i.e. with single mums. I don’t think many of them come from a stable home
with mum and dad both present. They’re already screwed – disadvantaged on
multiple levels as a result of uber-Liberal ‘any lifestyle is fine and the
State will pay’ public policy from the 1970s onwards. Many will have
severe psychological and emotional issues; for some, the opportunity of
being ‘owned’ and fucked by an older lad with a car offers a protection
and security they may never have enjoyed in their State Childrens Home –
and that really is a damning verdict.
- January 8, 2011 at
18:21
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Speaking from the rich experience of being an ex-inmate of a State
Children’s Home, and a 13 year old runaway to boot, all I ever wanted to
do was to put a roof over my own head that was beholden to no man. Yes,
there were some girl’s there who would accept support from any quarter,
but believe me, I was in the majority in that I woulnd’t have dreamt of
trusting any adult, male or female, to provide for me – and that, I
think you will find is a more common reaction to the sense of betrayal
by adults that those in Children’s Homes suffer from. Certainly in my
humble experience.
- January 8, 2011 at 18:52
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But you wouldn’t argue the point that few of these vulnerable girls
come from stable homes with two parents?
- January 8, 2011 at 19:00
- January 9, 2011 at 03:04
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Asian lads don’t drink either and can shift a lot of weed. They
don’t get pissed so drive about a bit bored.
- January 8, 2011 at 13:35
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I can only say i am in total agreement with this post,lets hope common
sense prevails.
- January
8, 2011 at 13:27
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Is it me, or do I get a whiff of “she was asking for it” here?
- January 8, 2011 at 14:01
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Yes, it is you. I specifically said I attached no blame to the girls. It
is the parents I am concerned about.
- January 9, 2011 at 03:01
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Probably foster kids.
- January 9, 2011 at 11:28
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It was me, too.
- January 9, 2011 at 12:08
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Fair enough, you did say that. But for me the point is that many of
these girls have no parents, effectively – they are in care or from very
chaotic backgrounds. If we can’t blame the girls (and we can’t, except for
being foolish), we fall back on blaming ‘the system’. I’d prefer to say
that the men involved are the problem. Without them, the girls would just
be bored kids hanging about on street corners.
- January 8,
2011 at 13:26
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“…or part of a doctrine that men control women – always – and women
learn to accept that?”
Indeed! We did away with this attitude when we got out of the medieval
period. Why should we bring it back?
- January 8, 2011 at 13:22
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“They are also routinely escorted by Brothers, and Fathers, part of a life
time’s training that you look after your young people.” – or part of a
doctrine that men control women – always – and women learn to accept that?
“..many of them are from broken homes, in care, unloved, unwanted, uncared
for, unprotected. They have no self respect, no pride in themselves – how
could they? No one ever took the time to give it to them.” – agreed. So the
question is, how do you change this attitude among the young women and men
from such homes, while protecting them from predators?
It is not an either/or situation. Both white and Pakistani communities need
to be challenged on how they protect young people.
- January 8, 2011 at 13:57
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I agree that we need to pay attention to our kids.
However I won’t help kids because of CRB checks, not that I have anything
to hide. I won’t take my daughter’s friends in the car without a daughter
(or female) present. This often means I drive past my house and don’t drop
my kids off until all deliveries are complete.
I now find that before I can take a starter hockey coach course I have to
have a “Safeguarding and Protecting Children in Sport” certificate.
However my main point. While working in Egypt I had several discussions
with fellow, local, engineers over British social ills. I remember one chat
about teenage pregnancy where I was told it wouldn’t happen in Egypt. I was
told in Upper Egypt a pregnent unmarried girl would be beaten to death by
the male relatives, in Cairo they would merely have a severe beating leading
to a stay in hospital.
I am fairly sure the Pakistani form of care is similar with Pakistan
substituting for Upper Egypt and Bradford and Blackburn for Cairo.
And yes, based on my conversations, western girls are seen as little
better than prostitutes because of the film, TV and magazine portrayal of
western promiscuity.
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January 8, 2011 at 15:21
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I understand your frustration about CRBs. I’ve needed one for each
organisation for which I volunteer – you can’t have one per person to
cover several organisations, but need one per person per organisation. It
appears that the state collects needless duplicate and intrusive
information.
Two points however: if this did not happen, maybe the likes of these
particular men would find their conquests through volunteering etc. Also:
what is more important – one’s anger at an intrusive state, or actively
helping your own and other children in a public setting to build a better
community ?
- January 8, 2011 at 16:03
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CRB checks prove nothing at all other than the fact you aren’t on the
sex offenders register. They DO NOT stop sex offenders that haven’t been
found out. Their introduction was a knee jerk reaction by the last
government to be seen to be doing something, anything.
- January 8, 2011 at 16:45
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What Ivan said.
- January 9, 2011 at 11:27
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I think that the damage done to muslim girls by their culture, far
exceeds the damage done to white girls by theirs.
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January 12, 2011 at 09:48
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I think this discussion on what culture is more destructive means
nothing in the reality of our individual differences.
What I mean is no 2 families are the same. For instance I would say my
mum and sisters in my family are not damaged by whatever lifestyle we
ascribe to and living within our faith, they are brilliant although we
have our problems like any other family. On the other hand you have
destructive families where you hear about domestic abuse or coercive and
abusive parenting, which are horrible and unfortunate, These exist in both
muslim families or non-muslim ones, its just a matter of being
human.
What I am trying to get to, is maybe its no the culture that is
the problem..its the individuals in particular. I can assure you that.
- January 8,
2011 at 13:10
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“It is not the jail sentences that are the cause of so much comment –
commendably severe…”
Eh..?!?!
- January 8, 2011 at 13:12
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Those are minimum sentences, on the judges orders, not open to
rebate.
- January
8, 2011 at 13:25
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But (according to the ‘Mail’, so caveat reader!) they are open to
shortening as a result of time on remand:
“Abid Saddique and Mohammed Liaqat were told they would
serve a minimum of 11 years and eight years respectively before they could
be considered for release.
But because they have served 617 days on remand since their arrest,
they could be released almost two years short of those minimum
terms.”
And frankly, even if this isn’t true, I don’t see an 11 year minimum as
being in any way, shape or form an appropriate sentence for their
crimes…
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January 8, 2011 at 15:28
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I’m not sure whether one judge’s immutable sentence can’t be shortened
by another, eg on appeal or simply by Home Office administrative
decision.
Also, is 11 years enough time? Prison is supposed to incarcerate
criminals who are a threat to society. Other predators have got whole of
life, or at least terms so long that when released they’re no longer a
danger to others. 40ish year old ex-lags could still have the same issues
that led them to commit crime in their 20s.
- January 8, 2011 at
15:36
{ 87 comments }