An open question to anyone about having to pay for parking on the road. Why do we have to a pay?

We already pay road tax for the upkeep of roads, even though only a small proportion of it is actually spent on the roads and other transport infrastructure. So why are drivers having to pay another “tax” on top for the privilege of parking on the road.

Paying for parking on private land (eg. NCP) or in public car parks is different. There the charges help to pay for the upkeep of the site and the wages of the parking attendants.

But paying to park on the road? It just does not make sense. The only reason it exists is so that a council can collect money. A tax in effect.

It can’t be to dissuade people from parking otherwise it would be a fine. Fines for parking on double yellow lines are different to parking charges. It can’t be to ensure that drivers only park for as long as they need to and no longer. That would happen only if the person didn’t need to use their car anymore. The whole point about parking on the road is that the person has come to carry out a time limited task of some sort – shopping, visiting the dentist, going to the bank, etc.

Does paying provide any benefit? Does it mean more people can park? Nope, there are only so many parking places. Does it allow the council to use the money to improve the local environment (better roads, better lighting, better signs, etc.)? Nope, it only goes to pay for parking attendants to go around slapping parking fines on drivers.

So why do we have to pay? Because the state tell us we have to pay and invents laws to fine us when we don’t – that why. Can we get the state to change their mind? Nope, because democracy doesn’t work. We don’t vote for our elected officials on the basis of small issues such as this. We vote on tribal lines. So we are effectively stuck with this stupid situation until the revolution comes. Or until an elected official gets off their arse and realises that they should be doing stuff for their community, not for their own political ends.

Removing parking charges would be a huge benefit to local communities. It would increase the footfall in local markets/shops because people would not have to pay £1 minimum (for example) just to spend 5 mins popping into a shop. An increase in business’ profits would mean that more businesses would be attracted to the area, meaning more employment, meaning more stuff to buy and generally making the area more attractive. So parking on the road should be free and parking in public car parks should be free for an initial short period (15 mins) of time.

Going off at a tangent, but that’s one reason why supermarkets are so attractive – they have free parking. How many of you go to a supermarket to buy a few items rather than go to their local market to do the same? Think about why you do it. Do you do it because you can drive and park for free or because the prices are cheaper in the supermarket? Do you still do it when the market is closer?

In my local town, there are currently two supermarkets and a good local market. There are plans to open up two new supermarkets and obviously the traders in the local market are up in arms about it with petitions being filled in. The supermarkets counter by saying that customers can use their car parks for free and do some shopping in the supermarket and some shopping in the local market. A tacit acknowledgement that free parking is one of the main reasons why people use supermarkets. But how many customers will do some of their shopping in a supermarket and then pop to the butcher in the local market. None, because unless the butcher’s prices were very low compared to the supermarket there would be no reason to do so. So the supermarket wins and the local shopkeepers have to go out of business. Some would say this is just standard market driven competition. But is the competition fair? I don’t think so, and not just because of the supermarket’s immense buying power. The supermarkets can control what parking charges are for their shoppers and they make it free to encourage more shoppers to visit. Local shop keepers and markets don’t have the same control about the parking charges in their area so are at a disadvantage straight away.

So to reiterate, parking on the road should be free and parking in public car parks should be free for an initial short period (15 mins) of time. This provides a level playing field.

[Orginaly published on a-nest-of-procyon-lotor]

Parking related link: www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8087984/50-years-of-traffic-wardens.html

Ciaran November 4, 2010 at 14:46

My local (small) town has free on-street parking all round the town,
several large free council-maintained car parks, and when the supermarket in
the town expanded its car park, part of the deal was that it would be
legitimate to use their car park when visiting the rest of the nearby shopping
area, not just the supermarket itself.

It’s not, for once, the big bad state, blighting towns and shopkeepers with
handed-down rules. Clearly these things are decided very locally.

JuliaM November 2,
2010 at 05:31

The ‘paid for’ car park nearest to me refunds your money – for the first
three hours – via Sainsbury if you spend over £10, which seems like a good way
of sorting out the commuter traffic. It isn’t too onerous, either.

SadButMadLad November 1, 2010 at 16:55

So to amend my initialise statement, parking on the road or in public car
parks should be free for an initial short period (15 mins) of time. This
provides a level playing field. It ensure shop keepers get their footfall
whilst detering all-day stayers.

Meters should only be installed where there are problems with all-day
stayers.
The charge should be low and according to the actual amount of
time parked not blocks of time.
The fines for overstaying should be in
proportion to the overstay.

Span
Ows November 1, 2010 at 15:12

I think Tim has hit the nail correctly: most shops and town centres have a
fair few flats above/residents etc; if there were no limit any of these would
have their cars there in front of the shops 24/7 (instead of in their
presumably assigned parking space miles (well, 100 metres) away.

The real niggle for me is the “enter your number plate” fiddles. If I pay
for two hours and only use 20 minutes I should have every right to hand my
ticket to another parker.

Guthrum November 1, 2010 at 12:27

For the moment use 1984@lpuk.org

Matt
Wardman November 1, 2010 at 11:08

Off topic Is there a contact address for the group blog?

Roger Thornhill
November 1, 2010 at 10:27

As Tim says, parking can increase footfall because it means places are not
hogged all day, so preventing customers from parking at a reasonable
distance.

Ealing has “stop and shop” places, 20 or 30 mins free parking, so that
shopping is encouraged and this is sensible. It keeps those spaces for
customers for free and not for someone sitting in an office all day around the
corner.

What is so counter-productive is when machines refuse to calculate on a per
minute tariff, just allowing 30 or 60 min units, so unless you have the exact
money, you are being ripped off. Anyone who says the machine would be
incapable of such a calculation is either stupid or lying.

BLATANT PLUG: I developed an a phone app and remote database to show all
available parking (including yellow lines) and the regulations thereof, linked
to GPS on a map of your location and what places were free, chargeable or
subject to a fine/tow right at that time and in English, not plate-speak (e.g.
“20p/10mins for the next 1:45mins, then free thereafter).

Councils were systematically uninterested. Can’t think why. Lack of time
and funds has mothballed this working prototype.

555PPS November 1, 2010 at 09:58

Council provided parking should not be free, as it is a scarce resource in
some places. Parking charges should however be kept to a minimum and should be
as simple to pay for as it is in private car parks. In the multi storey car
park, that is near my work, we have a choice of paying using coins or credit
card over the phone. There is no barrier system, so that you can pay when you
leave.
The hourly parking charges change for each hour you want to
stay.
So £1 for one hour, £2.10 for two hours, etc. up to a maximum of 6
hours. It is not the same amount per hour. People in a hurry
might miss the
parking charges scale and end up paying the wrong amount.
I believe that
the reason for these sort of tactics is that some will forget to follow the
rules and then be issued with a ‘Ticket’.
It seems to me that there should
be some differentiation between somebody who is late getting back to a car to
refill the meter and somebody who is trying to avoid having to pay. If you are
over 10 minutes late you get charged £60. It seems like a disproportionate
punishment is being levied in comparison to the amount of revenue lost.

On road parking is utilised about 50% on the weekdays, about 75% on
saturdays and 100% on Sundays. Parking is free on Sundays.

It seems to me that the problem is not paying for parking but the way in
which it is indiscriminately deployed and ruthlessly enforced.

Clarissa November
1, 2010 at 09:14

My home town tried to introduce paid parking in the shopping car park in
the mid-90s as a way to discourage the commuters and other all day stayers.
However rather than be sensible and make it free for the first hour or so they
introduced pay and display and charged for all stays no matter how brief.

The result? Rebellion. The mums dropping their kids off at the local
primary school didn’t pay or caused chaos twice a day on the main road through
town by dropping their kids off in the road; shoppers either didn’t pay or
placed their tickets with time remaining on the machine for the next person to
use and thus reduce the take the council got; and the local shopkeepers were
very unamused as they could see trade dropping.

In the end the council gave up, took the meters away and the situation
returned to normal.

SadButMadLad October 31, 2010 at 20:24

@Tim – I acknowledge the shopkeepers want increased footfall and that
putting in meters to encourage people to only stay for the shopping and
nothing else. But only in those areas where there are other reasons for
parking. Where there are offices and shops then parking meters should
encourage the office workers to park elsewhere. But parking places are
sometimes so limited that some office workers do put money into the meters all
day. Where there are only shops, meters aren’t necessary and are actually
counterproductive. The other issue is that car parks are a lot more common now
a days so those who don’t want to waste time finding a spot can park in them.
Another point about the meters. They aren’t controlled by the shopkeepers.
They are controlled by the council. Unlike supermarkets who control their own
parking facilities. The council are the ones who keep the money and increase
the charges till they no longer serve the needs of shopkeepers.

@GrumbylGumby – If there was free on the road parking then yes, then early
bird office workers would fill them up. But in areas where there are shops car
parks would also exist because the office workers would need parking
facilities no matter what. The combination of office and visitors would drive
the need to create car parks. So visitors end up paying for their parking.
Pretty much what meters do. Office workers and some lucky visitors get free
parking. In no way does it make the roads less clogged unless everyone was so
desperate to find a free parking spot. But so long as the charges aren’t too
high then it comes down to the trade off of either spending ages circling for
a spot or paying for a guaranteed spot in a car park.

Meters can work in some places. But the use of meters all over the place
just shows how much it’s become a cash cow for councils and not a tool for
shop keepers to use to increase their footfall. Every area needs solutions
tailored to its specific needs.

@ramtops – Point taken – just like NI is not for the NHS, but goes into the
general taxation pot too. However roads need maintaining and paying more VED
than is used for maintaining the roads is a form of stealth tax which Gordon
Brown was very good at introducing.

Old Slaughter
October 31, 2010 at 20:23

Anna Raccoon without Anna. I guess a bit like Taggart after Taggart
died.

Oh well, I’ll give it a shot.

Eleanor November 1, 2010 at 05:33

Yes, It feels a bit disloyal somehow.. But life goes on I suppose.

As for Parking, if you didn’t have to pay to park outside The Butchers
then you would have more money to spend inside The Butchers, and The Butcher
would have to pay more Income Tax and VAT.

Me? I haven’t had to pay for parking for eighteen years.

Mcgraw October 31, 2010 at 20:20

http://www.yourparkingspace.co.uk/
Go private.
But ,yes
I get it, why pay ?.
Well councils need the money to employ trillions of
nappy changing coordinators.
Not to mention sooooociaaaaaal wuuuurkers.

RantinRab October
31, 2010 at 18:40

Excellent site. Saved me £40!!

http://forums.pepipoo.com/

RantinRab October
31, 2010 at 18:40

Excellent site. Saved me £40!!

http://forums.pepipoo.com/

ramtops
October 31, 2010 at 18:23

Er – you don’t pay road tax. Nobody has paid road tax in the UK since 1937;
you pay Vehicle Excise Duty, which has gone into the general taxation pot
since then.

ramtops
October 31, 2010 at 18:23

Er – you don’t pay road tax. Nobody has paid road tax in the UK since 1937;
you pay Vehicle Excise Duty, which has gone into the general taxation pot
since then.

GrumblyGumby
October 31, 2010 at 16:38

Not that I am in favour of charges, but:- you have neglected to consider
that parking charges on roads do deter workers from parking there all day,
thereby denying the opportunity for limited time parkers to use those spaces
and patronise local businesses.

I live near the town centre and benefit from a resident’s parking scheme,
without which I would find if very difficult to park. This is obvious from the
way that the handful of unrestricted spaces are occupied all day by office
workers’ cars.

At the same time, I find it deeply irritating that the council forgets that
this scheme operates for the benefit of residents and have started to operate
it more for revenue generation – eg visitor’s permits that don’t last a whole
day and so can’t be used for tradesmen working on your property.

Tim
Worstall October 31, 2010 at 16:25

“Does paying provide any benefit? ”

Yes, actually it does, which is why shopkeepers used to agitate to have
parking meters put in. For it increases the footfall.

If there are no parking charges then people will park there all day. Or
might at least. Meters mean that people will only park near the shops when
they actually want to go to the shops. So meters limit parking near shops to
those who actually want to use shops and only for the period of time they need
to use shops.

Meters thus increase the footfall of people using the shops.

No, really, they do….

Catosays October
31, 2010 at 15:39

Welcome ye back.

Since I live in the arsehole of nowhere, all my parking is free…but when I
venture into the nearest town, I take care to park in the supermarket’s park,
buy something there and make sure I’m out in 2 hours.

Having said that, it is entirely wrong for councils to charge.

Siriol October 31,
2010 at 15:19

This makes me fume. We have to pay to park outside our own home! Why?
‘Administration fees’, apparently. This is on top of the extortionate council
tax rates we pay go.

There are thirty houses on this street, with double yellow lines on three
quarters of the road (despite it being a very wide road), including directly
outside our house. We are left with space for about six cars inside the
‘residents’ bays’. A simple equation would show that this situation is
unworkable. But not to the local authority robots in charge. Try parking on a
neighbouring road, and you’re fined. Meanwhile, getting a bus is like waiting
for Godot.

Come the revolution…..

Richard B October
31, 2010 at 14:24

I have often thought exactly the same. It’s not as if the council own the
land they are charging for. If they did, I wouldn’t object. But they are
essentially charging people to use a resource that is not theirs to offer. The
law is completely on their side, of course, so disobedience won’t get you
further than a fine and a lot of trouble, but that doesn’t make it right.

You are spot on about free parking. People round here will travel 50-60
miles up the motorway to visit an ‘outlet’ because the parking is easy and
free, when they won’t shop in town because of the problem of parking. The town
is dying as a result. People are just damn lazy, but that’s how they are. If
the council freed up parking in and close to town, everyone would shop there,
but their policy over the last 10 years has been to make the town as
unappealing and awkward for the motorist as possible (pinch points, humps,
pedestrian priorities and so on). I do shop in the town, but only if I go on
the motorbike and can park easily and at no cost. That is while there is a
town left to shop in.

electro-kevin
October 31, 2010 at 13:48

I’m often dismayed by this. How a council can simply put down yellow lines
and then mark out ‘bays’ and then declare parking space a resource to be paid
extra for.

The other thing which is scandalous is that pay stations at council run car
parks are always set to charge at say £1.80 rather than £2.00. The meters
aren’t geared to give out change – in this day and age why ever not ?

I believe this to be a deliberate rip off. So that they can claim that
charges are being kept down whilst they know that the real price being paid is
higher as people don’t often have the change to hand.