The Pharmaceutical Industry; Ring-Masters of Lunacy.
It must be that time of the month again, you know, the full moon. Either that or the magic mushroom harvest has been particularly plentiful this year.
The fifth edition of the American Psychiatry Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is due out in a few days – the bible of those who would seek to categorise us all under a suitable ‘mental health’ label. This bible was responsible for categorising ‘nicotine deprivation’ as category 292.0 prompting my post warning that nuclear submarines were about to go to sea with a crew comprised of 40% officially suffering from a ‘mental illness’ – a comforting thought!
From the 1st January, 40% of the crew of those sleek and secretive nuclear submarines roaming our seas that we are assured are our best protection against the ‘madmen’ in North Korea and Iran, who, we are told, are ‘not to be trusted with nuclear weapons’, will themselves, be comprised of those who may be, at any one time, suffering from one or all of DSM-III-R’s list of side effects of category 292.0.
From the 1st January, the crews on board the US nuclear arsenal are forbidden to smoke whilst submerged. Personally, the bath is the one place I never smoke, the end gets all soggy, but that is by the by. These boys (and girls) are submerged for 60 days at a time.
They are forbidden to use an E-Cigarette – too likely that the cartridge will be replaced by one filled with crack cocaine apparently. They must fall back on the tender embrace of the pharmaceutical replacement – now proven to cause hallucinations, a belief that God is talking to you, suicidal thoughts that have led to almost 5,000 serious psychotic episodes and over a 100 suicides – or alternatively, they can go ‘cold turkey’ and suffer from the side effects of 292.0 which include – temper tantrums, feelings of despondency, mental confusion, vagueness, anxiety and depression.
Still, help is at hand. The British Psychological Society has declared war on the DSM and all its bastard children – including those who set their clock by it. War is possibly too mild a word to describe their first shot across its bows – they wish to see the entire basis on which mental illness is viewed, re-evaluated – and not as something that can be ‘treated’ by Psychiatrists using pharmaceuticals.
There is a major elephant in the room here – for our entire Mental Health law is based upon the idea that some mental illnesses can be treated and therefore it is reasonable to lock people up whilst they are treated, should they refuse to be treated voluntarily. Whether you agree with locking people up who are mentally ill or not, is not the issue here – for if you abandon the idea that people are treatable by pharmaceuticals, you are in effect abandoning our present Mental Health law. As it stands at present – if there is not a pill available for whatever ails you, then you can”t be locked up.
It may be wonderful in theory to talk of a land where no one is ever detained against their will, but trust me, remove the basis on which some seriously psychotic individuals are removed from society for a period to enable their medication to take effect, and the present chaotic situation in the UK will seem like the land of milk and honey.
Some of the Psychologists responsible for the statement issued by the British Psychological Society believe that mental illness stems from ‘bereavement and loss, poverty and discrimination, trauma and abuse’ and that sitting down with a psychologist to ‘talk about it’ would help more.
13 studies find that more than half of schizophrenics suffered childhood abuse. Another review of 23 studies shows that schizophrenics are at least three times more likely to have been abused than non-schizophrenics. It is becoming apparent that abuse is the major cause of psychoses.
For instance, a person with six or more personal debts is six times more likely to be mentally ill than someone with none, regardless of their social class: the more debts, the greater the risk.
That, apparently, to the psychologists, suggests that it is the debts that create the mental illness – one could easily argue that those with a mental illness are more likely to behave rashly and run up debts. What of those who suffered childhood abuse and didn’t become schizophrenic?
But just as psychologists bid to empty the mental hospitals of the world into their consulting rooms, along comes another renegade. Mental illness might not have a biological or physical dimension – but criminality? Now you are talking. (Careful where you are talking on this one – this theory was popular in Victorian times, and came to be associated with ‘bumps on the head’, eugenics and the Nazis.)
Adrian Raine is busy turning the theory of crime being caused by er, ’bereavement and loss, poverty and discrimination, trauma and abuse’ as the Victorians and liberals believed, on its head – and proving that is has a physical/biological basis. If he is right, then Psychiatrists could treat criminals with pharmaceuticals…..
“In the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, violence went up in America. What was causing that? Well, one hypothesis: It was the increase in environmental lead in the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s. You know, lead in gas, for example. So, in the 1950s, little toddlers were playing outside, putting their fingers in dirt, putting their fingers in their mouths and absorbing the lead. Twenty years later, they became the next generation of violent criminal offenders because violence peaks at about 19 or 20. Then what happens is in the 1990s violence begins to come down, as it’s been doing. What’s partly explaining that? The reduction in lead in the environment. In fact, if you map environmental lead levels over time like that and map it onto the change in violence over time, lead can explain 91% of those changes. And to me, it’s the only single cause that can both explain the precipitous rise in violence from the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s and also the drop that we’ve been experiencing.”
I think I’ve got a handle on this now – Adrian is bidding to empty the prisons into the mental hospitals, and the Psychologists want to empty the mental hospitals into their consulting rooms, which leaves G4S free to stop running prisons and take over the police, painstakingly interviewing victims of long dead celebrities, and the nuclear submarines will be run by psychotic smokers talking to God?
There seems to be only one winner in this merry-go-round; the Pharmaceutical industry. If they’re not treating the mentally ill, they’re doping smokers or criminals. Can’t any of this lot do something useful – like find a way to evaluate the mental health of our politicians before we vote them into power and get their finger on the nuclear button?
May 14, 2013 at 18:09
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I always had a very bad general impression of ‘happy pills’ like prozac and
its cousins. Never having needed any kind of mental health care I was also
sceptical to the point of flippancy of the whole panoply of ‘talking
cures’.
Until a close family member became extremely depressed and entered
a terrifying downward spiral, that is. Then I was very glad of them
indeed.
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May 14, 2013 at 19:39
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That’s the thing. I would never want to take any kind of antidepressant,
although I do like a mug of strong coffee, due to the myriad side effects of
antidepressant drugs. But then I don’t need them. If all I thought about was
wanting to kill myself and everyone was telling me that taking Prozac could
help me feel better, then probably I would take it, side effects and
all.
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May 14, 2013 at 20:00
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ah, this thread is making me all nostalgic for the days when we all had
easy access to valium. One before maths o’level, another before the
driving test. Brilliant stuff. These new fangled ‘safe’ ant-depressants
are nasty things. Like Carol I tried one and felt absolutely
psychotic.
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May 14, 2013 at 09:47
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A close relative had a major mental breakdown after childbirth, Puerperal
Psychosis. Only after a year, ending up with those controversial elecrics to
the head. It seemed to work, until years later, due to the precautions taken
during foot and moth restrictions, she lost a job she delighted in……driving
round a remote rural area in beautiful North Wales, delivering parcels, mostly
to farms. She slowly dissolved into very severe bi-polar. All those approached
were indifferent and accused her partner of all sorts. A week after her
brothers wedding she finally went ballistic and trashed a police car with her
secret Doc Martins, dressed in combat gear. Her clothes under a bush. She was
sectioned in the street. All very wacky. Each episode had an identifiable
trigger. Even one earlier, in her teens. All her friends got jobs after YOPs
but her. She ate herself to size 20 from 12 and her mum had to by food as
needed. I mused that this was odd but got a bad reaction. A baby, a job loss,
a wedding, too shy as a teenager. Now she is stable on Lithium and also has
MS…..how steamingly unlucky can you get. Some humans are fragile, and life
events trip them up, much more easily than more grounded persons. Drugs play
their part. even ‘shock therapy has a place. Have ‘psychologists’ taken the
place of psychiatrists, I wonder?
- May 14,
2013 at 16:00
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‘Have ‘psychologists’ taken the place of psychiatrists, I wonder?’
Probably not. A psychiatrist is still an essential ingredient in the
sectioning process.
Not entirely sure why the pharmaceutical industry is getting the blame
for all of this. They produce but they do not prescribe.
- May 14, 2013 at 17:16
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@Louise
Many Diabetics would probably agree with you about the
pharma-boys having their good points….
- May 13, 2013 at 21:34
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I suppose we’re all different and some are different enough to be out and
out crazies.
So nicotine deprived or not, you wouldn’t leave them
unattended with sharp knives.
As carol 42 had a very unpleasant time some
years ago and have serious doubts about the mind doctors and more particularly
GPs prescribing mind altering chemicals. Bereavement a couple of years back
was definitely chemical free; there are things we can learn and do.
Was
very tempted to sell a bumper crop of fly agaric from the back garden last
year.
Didn’t do it, didn’t get the guilt. I guess in a way that’s a coping
strategy.
- May 13, 2013 at 20:09
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For about six months after my husband died in a sudden accident I was quite
naturally very depressed and my Dr. suggested some anti depressants. As I
wanted to pull myself together to sell my house and move near my son I agreed.
Well, they made me ten times worse, instead of being just depressed I started
getting panic attacks as well. I gave up after a month and refused to try any
more but they did help in one way, I felt so bad taking them that when I
stopped I was much better and got on with things. How did we get to the
position that there is a pill for everything?
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May 13, 2013 at 21:14
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I think it is unfortunate that sometimes doctors think that they must
prescribe something, so that if you go off and top yourself, then it won’t
look like they were negligent and didn’t listen.
They might start you on Prozac and then if that causes panic attack cut
the dose or add another antidepressant like Zoloft at night and then add an
antianxiety agent and before you know it you are taking a handful of pills
and walking around like a zombie.
It is true that ALL medications have side effects and that is one of the
reasons why I don’t take anything at all and am perfectly healthy, though I
know that if I went to a doctor in the US, they would probably want to put
me on half a dozen medications to prevent assorted ailments. For example I
could take stuff for knee pain, sciatica, back spasms, blood pressure,
cholesterol, blood thinners, ulcerative colitis, GERD, etc., but I just swim
laps for half an hour a day and try to forget about the ailments which I
think are normal for my age.
- May 14, 2013 at 17:03
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Damn right.
After years of avoiding medical care except for serious
matters, I’ve been captured by the health police. Close to the age of
needing to apply for a new driving licence, and needing a thorough medical
check to keep my right to drive a minibus, I’ve had a couple of months of
accelerated physical decrepitude courtesy of drugs I apparently need.
I
felt pretty good before.
Not any more.
- May 13, 2013 at 19:41
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As for smoking on submarines I have no experience but ( hopefully the
Statute of Limitations protects me) I can admit to smoking when flying at
levels not requiring oxygen. This was many years ago, of course! -; Many
others did too. What a criminal bunch we were……….
- May 13, 2013 at 19:18
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It’s the supposedly sane lot with the 20/20 vision and balanced chems that
worry me the most. The people who buy VW Beetles and put daffodils in the
dashboard, people who cut down their trees and plant decking, and people who
drive 10 miles to their fitness gym and spend an hour riding 20 miles on an
exercise machine. And have you ever been in Primark on a Saturday morning?
It’s the new Bedlam, complete with toothless crones snapping thongs with their
teeth and trouserless fathers having nervous breakdowns wearing nothing but
their underpants.
- May 13, 2013 at 19:27
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Brilliant comment!
- May 13, 2013 at 19:35
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Thanks Anna. Nice Raccoon!
- May 13, 2013 at 18:33
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Indeed the pharmaceutical industry has a lot to answer for. Not content
with drugging those with ‘supposed’ mental illnesses they, in association with
the psychologists, are now hell bent it turning the children into spaced out
zombies with the daily dose of Ratlin or its equivalent. Is it any wonder that
both the US and UK are in such a mess?
- May 13, 2013 at 15:23
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Any guesses anyone as to which Uk police force will be used as a pilot area
for it’s officers to be submitted to psychological testing before being
ALLOWED (by NAPAC and MWT) to investigate any future allegations of sexual
abuse by anyone !
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May 13, 2013 at 16:08
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Clearly the whole country has gone insane, hence the rebellion against
psychiatrists!
I can now reveal the real reasons for the “retirement” of Sir Alec
Ferguson.
http://www.7msport.com/news/upload_img/20130417/6_2013041710493985.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/09/article-0-012D7E9500000578-158_306x311.jpg
- May
13, 2013 at 17:07
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@ Any guesses anyone as to which Uk police force will be used as a pilot
area for it’s officers to be submitted to psychological testing before being
ALLOWED to investigate any future allegations of sexual abuse by anyone !
@
With Spindler now inspecting the Inspectors, I think we can rest assured
the necessary policies will be implemented….
“I am pleased to welcome AICs Pinkney and Spindler to HMIC. They bring
with them a wealth of current and operational policing experience, which
will be invaluable in delivering HMIC’s commitment to the public to inspect
and encourage improvement within the police service.”
http://www.hmic.gov.uk/news/releases-2013/006-hmic-today-announces-the-appointments-of-olivia-pinkney-and-peter-spindler-as-assistant-inspectors-of-constabulary/
- May 13, 2013 at 15:01
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“In the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, violence went up in America. What was causing
that? Well, one hypothesis: It was the increase in environmental lead in the
’50s, ’60s and ’70s. ….snip….Then what happens is in the 1990s violence begins
to come down, as it’s been doing. What’s partly explaining that?”
Environmental Lead causing crime is to give it its technical name a
Batshitcrazy theory. So here is a better one.
Booming populations coupled with collapsing social standards cause the
violent crime increase. As most violent crimes are committed by men around
17-30, the post war baby boom was just getting to age in the 1950’s.
Then in 1973 Roe vs Wade came along and made abortion possible.
Impoverished, teenage, single mothers who knew that they were in a poor
position to do a decent job at raising children instead opted for abortion.
1973+17 equals 1990. Violent crime came down because 17 years earlier whole
cohorts of violent criminals were never born.
Hattip: Freakonomics
- May 13, 2013 at 18:05
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Not the first time I’ve heard that analysis, inclined to agree.
- May 13, 2013 at 21:24
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I have read much that suggests the abortion theory is not valid. In
truth, nobody really knows why crime fell across the western world since
about the mid nineties. Most Britons are in denial about that fact, and want
to believe that Lord Humongous is going to take over any minute.
- May 14, 2013 at 00:41
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People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer
to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey:
robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle
theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault
and threats. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of
law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual
prevalence.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims
SOURCE:
UNICRI (United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research
Institute). 2002. Correspondence on data on crime victims. March.
Turin
# 1 Australia: 30.1%
# 2 New Zealand: 29.4%
# 3 United Kingdom:
26.4%
Is crime perhaps associated with having English as a first
language?………… ;-D
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May 14, 2013 at 11:18
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But first, you have to get the police to recognise there was a crime.
A couple of years ago, I presented the police with documentary evidence
of fraud, forgery, obtaining money by deception, something like £200K
involved. They couldn’t care less. The same perpetrator had also
defrauded his employer of about £10K, again, the police couldn’t give a
stuff, telling the employer it was the bank’s problem to report the
crime (forged signatures on cheques).
Months later, I get a call from plod, asking ME if I knew where the
said villain was. as he had done over a little old “vunerable” lady!
Contrast this to the froth of excitement if they suspect an elderly
man to have touched a young girl’s leg forty years ago.
- May
13, 2013 at 12:45
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Speaking of nutters…. Spindler of the Yard was carting officers from the
Met to Satanic Abuse seminars as recently as 2004
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4114227.stm
Professor
Jean La Fontaine, an anthropologist, was asked in 1994 by the Department of
Health to carry out investigation into abuse claims. She told BBC News “I feel
quite strongly that the pursuit of exotic cases which are categorised as
Satanic is actually detracting from our search of abusers of children in less
exotic ways. “Ten years on, and I would expect the information and conclusions
to have been assimilated into everybody’s approach to solving cases of this
sort.
Mr Spindler defended the decision to go on the course, saying: “If
survivors of abuse are telling us that this is the type of thing they have
experienced in the past, then we need to be open minded.”
- May 13, 2013 at 12:22
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Does all this mean that the price of fags will go up again soon, causing
debt, depression and a visit to the psychologist? Must be vicious circle
syndrome.
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May 13, 2013 at 11:21
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Some of the Psychologists responsible for the statement issued by the
British Psychological Society believe that mental illness stems from
‘bereavement and loss, poverty and discrimination, trauma and abuse’ …
When I lived in Liverpool, I was quite ready to believe that depression and
mental illess was caused by the overcast, cold, foggy, weather, unemployment,
poverty, council estates, etc., but when I went to work in Bermuda, which had
lovely weather, full employment, affluence for all, streets lined with flowers
and ocean views and fresh air for all–about as close as you could get to life
in a Thomas Kinkade painting–I found that there was still plenty of mental
illness, crime, drug addiction, alcoholism, etc. and that on a per capita
basis, the incidence of HIV/AIDS was the highest in the world due to heroin
addicts sharing needles.
If you want to get really profound about it, you might consider that
British psychologists are projecting their own dissatisfaction at their lot in
life onto their mental health clientele.
http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20121214/NEWS/712149928
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May 13, 2013 at 11:43
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Any deviation, oddity or eccentricity of behaviours from some norm set by
self appointed experts gives rise to ‘distancing behaviours’ as if others
are not humans just like themselves. The distancing can be so severe as to
social workers deeming the parents a risk because they subscribe to a
lifestyle of which they know nothing. But more often it leads to many people
feeling ‘lack of self worth’ and to developing self destructive behaviours.
Why?
I think that societies ij which individualism, greed and self promotion
are pre-dominant forces are unnatural, (our original ancestors and many in
other more closely knit cultures where more life is more communal less often
display such characteristics). They create a sort of hopelessness amongst
those who maybe are psychologically much weaker. I suspect a more
proletarian culture, education and society to help make people emotionally
resilient and less likely to develop many of the kinds of disorders of mind
attributed to mental illness.
-
May 13, 2013 at 11:16
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The DSM new classification of mental illnesses is clearly causing a stir
amongst mental health practitioners too. See the Guardian’s article:
Medicine’s big new battleground: does mental illness really exist?
The
latest edition of DSM, the influential American dictionary of psychiatry, says
that shyness in children, depression after bereavement, even internet
addiction can be classified as mental disorders. It has provoked a
professional backlash, with some questioning the alleged role of vested
interests in diagnosis”.
What should worry us all is just how easy it has become for groups of
workers to gain credibility, when there is not sufficient robust scientific
evidence of the kind medicine relies upon, and call themselves professionals
of one sort or another backed up with their ‘professional unions’ pushing the
recognition at our stupid ministers and government who really lack powers of
critical questioning. Social work, psychology, and psychiatry are at the
forefront of such aggressive hard sell. As someone who studied two years of a
psychology degree (did not agree with the way it was being held up as
knowledgeable) and with experience of working in the field I am not a novice
to how things have been ‘sold’..
- May
13, 2013 at 11:30
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@ What should worry us all is just how easy it has become for groups of
workers to gain credibility, when there is not sufficient robust scientific
evidence of the kind medicine relies upon, and call themselves professionals
of one sort or another backed up with their ‘professional unions’ @
There’a a major measles epidemic in South Wales at the moment, caused by
an irrational public and one irrational (and criminal) doctor….. plus the
internet.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/310264/Disgraced-measles-doctor-trying-to-launch-TV-show/
- May 13, 2013 at 11:36
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PS…… and probably the mainstream media who promoted the MMR panic in
the first place… :-/
- May 13, 2013 at 11:46
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Medicine has always had more evidence… a rogue doctor and MSM helped
create panic amongst the chattering classes.
- May 13, 2013 at 11:59
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The original paper suggesting MMR caused autism was published in The
Lancet. The MSM cannot be blamed for writing stories based on scientific
papers published in The Lancet, whatever their later responsibility for
stoking up irrational behaviour.
- May 13, 2013 at 12:05
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Yes I agree. But it does show how rogue scientists and medics can
‘lead’ their colleagues and that peer review of scientific articles
for publication is not always robust as it should be. Lets face it
careers are to be made (and if caught, to be later broken) when you
come out with something new that relates to a current issue of concern
(in the case of MMR- the rise in numbers with autism).
- May 13, 2013 at 17:15
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- May 13, 2013 at 17:26
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I’ve noticed that the advertising on David Icke’s forums includes one
saying “Cancer is a Fungus”, and it uses an image of a baby Alien to
ensure we take the news completely seriously, as I’m sure many on there
will………….
- May 13, 2013 at 11:48
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It was ever thus. Sigmund Freud, supposedly one of the greatest thinkers
the world has known, was an utter charlatan. For example, he wrote an
academic paper extolling the virtues of cocaine when he himself was out of
his mind on the stuff. There seems to be something about psychology that
attracts mountebanks.
- May 13,
2013 at 11:13
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Nay chuck it wer new moon o Friday and the shrooms don’t come out till
July, I think its called medical dictatorship just round the corner.
- May 13, 2013 at 10:51
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My understanding was that smoking has long been banned in HM submarines as
part of the controls of what can be released into the submarine’s breathable
air system. There are restrictions on materials used in construction i.e.
adhesives and items that can be brought on board i.e. deodorants too.
Smoking on board HM surface ships is restricted to the ‘weatherdeck’ i.e.
outside and banned altogether during fuel-handling and similar operations.
- May
13, 2013 at 11:02
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Scotland’s workplace smoking ban will not apply to submarines at sea, the
Scottish Executive has revealed. Workers are set to be allowed to light up
in designated smoking rooms on Navy subs and refuelling vessels following a
request from the Ministry of Defence. Deputy Health Minister Lewis Macdonald
said university laboratories examining tobacco products may also receive a
specific exemption.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4440510.stm
- May 13, 2013 at 21:09
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Interesting but beyond their competence!
HM Submarines in commission are subject to Queen’s Regulations which
drills down to the ‘BR’ on control of atmospheric pollution. The idea that
there is spare space on board a submarine for a ‘smoking room’ is
laughable, as is the concept of a ‘Scottish’ submarine. The ‘air’ within a
submarine has to be re-circulated and ‘scrubbed’ and the last thing that
is needed is the addition of unnecessary pollutants.
My guess is that the story is mis-reported and that the MOD has sought
to provide smoking spaces on board submarines etc. while they are in the
hands of the dockyard. I think it is time the MOD got tough and told the
dockyards that they must become more professional and treat the equipment
that they work on with more respect. It is appalling that ships etc. in
repair (and new build) need re-painting before handover because the
dockyards have exercised their ‘tradition’ of covering every clear surface
in graffiti. But then we pay the bill.
- May
13, 2013 at 10:50
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Mad Scientists and the Military have a long and noble history…………
Operation Blue Peacock forms part of an exhibition for the National
Archives…. The bomb was designed to stop the Red Army advancing across West
Germany during the height of the Cold War……… But nuclear physicists at the
Aldermaston nuclear research station in Berkshire were worried about how to
keep the landmine at the correct temperature when buried underground. In a
1957 document they proposed live chickens would generate enough heat to ensure
the bomb worked when buried for a week. The birds would be put inside the
casing of the bomb, given seed to keep them alive and stopped from pecking at
the wiring………….. Tom O’Leary, head of education and interpretation at the
National Archives [said]: “It does seem like an April Fool but it most
certainly is not. The Civil Service does not do jokes.”
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May 13, 2013 at 10:10
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XX Either that or the magic mushroom harvest has been particularly
plentiful this year.XX
Last year. The season for this year has not begun yet. (Mid to late June
until mid September) Not that I know much about them…. That is….
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May 13, 2013 at 10:03
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The British Psychological Society was at the forefront of the Recovered
Memory bollocks of the mid-nineties. I would like to think standards have
improved since then.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/97650.article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/apr/06/mentalhealth.observermagazine
Incidentally, the Mark Pendergrast referenced in the Guardian article
above, published a fine book about Recovered Memories. He was severely
critical of the BPS.
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May 13, 2013 at 09:51
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I can’t begin to imagine how The Navy, not least Submarines managed to
function when they were all give a Tot of Rum at midday every day. No wonder
someone put a stop to that malarky. I have fallen over on occasions on one of
those.
- May 13, 2013 at 06:34
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“the nuclear submarines will be run by psychotic smokers talking to
God?”
We haven’t been hearing too much in the news about this. Of course that’s
partly just due to the military liking to keep things under wraps, but I’m
wondering if it may also be that it is being ignored. Nuke captains are about
as close to Kings as we have nowadays. If my understanding is correct (and it
may well not be… the closest I’ve been to a sub is the little ones I used play
with in the tub) their word and preferences are the be-all and end-all once
that fish is out of the harbor. So maybe it’s just quietly accepted that some
captains will allow smoking and some won’t and no one talks to the press about
it.
– MJM
- May 13, 2013 at 06:21
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“Can’t any of this lot do something useful – like find a way to evaluate
the mental health of our politicians”
Sorry, there aren’t enough pharmacists or hours in the day to take on this
one.
{ 46 comments }