Rubbish In, Rubbish Out – 2011 Census
The Green Party decided that it would oppose the 2011 census because of the involvement of US Arms manufacturer Lockheed Martin, then dropped the idea of a boycott. As Libertarians there is absolutely no justification for us to hand over our personal Data to a centralised State for ‘planning purposes’.
Ten Census lies from the ONS
The propaganda push for the 2011 census has begun. NO2ID opposes this census because it represents the worst features of database state, the insatiable desire for ever more information, and the presumption that official purposes override privacy.
Here are the ten worst lies you will be told in the coming weeks:
1. The Census is essential for government and business planning.
On the contrary, it is worse than useless because it is expensive, inaccurate, and quickly out of date.
2. Our Census data is trusted and respected worldwide.
Even were this true, should we care? Most countries do have some sort of census, but would being respected at doing something essentially useless be worth more than £300 million.
3. It’s a great source for genealogy.
100 or 200 years ago there was little record of most people’s lives, and old censuses may be the only documents available. It is ludicrous to assume the same will apply in 100 years time, and outrageous to suggest it justifies spending public money.
4. It’s ‘good for employment’, it provides jobs.
Temporary ones, yet the money spent would otherwise be spent on something — probably something useful involving permanent jobs.
5. Census data is confidential for 100 years.
Not any more. Census forms are kept from the public for 100 years. But EU legislation allows the 2011 census to be shared with all 27 member states, and the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 created powers to share the information with public bodies, and “approved researchers“.
6. The census results in high-quality information.
No one knows how many people lie in their return. The 2001 census is generally believed to have ‘missed’ around 900,000 men under 40.
7. Everyone should be proud of playing their part in the census.
There is no reason to be proud of being tallied like cattle. There is every reason to oppose the waste and the intrusion. There is a long history of public resentment of the census.
In the 1800s census officers had to be given police protection; in 1911 the suffragettes boycotted it in protest; and in the 50s TV publicity told people it wasn’t “another bit of snooping”
8. Communities can use census statistics to help gain recognition.
Whether a group is “officially recognised” is a political decision, not the same as individuals being located and categorised. 390,127 people recorded their religion as Jedi in 2001; they have yet to be officially recognised. More seriously, the Board of Deputies says the census underestimates British Jews, precisely because some of that community are nervous of officials knowing where they live.
9. Completing the census is straightforward, convenient and secure.
New questions are more intrusive than ever before, requiring details of employer’s addresses, the details of any visitors to your house, and where they usually live. This is a direct danger to people who have sensitive occupations. The online version is a perfect cover for phishing attacks.
10. Your personal information is protected.
Security is only as good as the shortest route to breaking it. Thousands of people will be involved, large commercial contractors and government agencies will process it, and the law newly provides that the data may be accessed for a variety of reasons, not just for making a statistical summary.
It cannot be guaranteed there won’t be a security breach, or that data once captured will be used legitimately.
They cannot protect it; they shouldn’t collect it.
H/T NO2ID
The Suffragettes boycotted the 1901 census, the Jedi Knights became one of the fastest growing religions of all times in 2001. So as these two census were derided by the public then and it is still a huge waste of public funds that provides no useful information, it should be scrapped.
The State has no need to know my religious leanings, how many bedrooms I have or what my ethnic background is, and I am sure they know this information already. This is certainly not being done for my benefit.
Andrew P Withers
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February 22, 2011 at 10:17 -
“This is certainly not being done for my benefit.”
It seems to me that much of what is to your benefit and was formerly undertaken wholly or partly by government, eg water, electricity, gas, housing, travel, healthcare, etc, has either already been privatised, is in the process of being privatised, or will shortly undergo that process. It seems to follow that those remaining functions of government, for the provision of which we are additionally charged through taxation, are not to your benefit. -
February 22, 2011 at 10:44 -
February 22, 2011 at 11:06 -
Maybe everyone should follow the politicians example with their expenses and blank out all personal information.
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February 22, 2011 at 11:23 -
There are more questions than answers. Do cats have to fill in the Senseless as well? And what about those who are unable to write because they’ve been disadvantaged by the country’s ninety third-rate education system? Do they have to apply a strategically positioned paw or fingerprint on the form?
I’ve had a Christian upbringing and education – but I’m blowed if I’m going to tell them about it. It’s none of their bloody business. Cretins.-
February 22, 2011 at 14:24 -
There once was an unherded cat.
Heard the census form drop on the mat.
A form from the Feds,
So he ripped it to shreds,
And on the collector he shat.
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February 22, 2011 at 11:35 -
‘Fuck off and leave me alone…’ springs to mind…
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February 22, 2011 at 11:55 -
Whoops! I’ve accidentally shredded my census, Sorry.
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February 22, 2011 at 12:08 -
No problem, Tony – you’re quite welcome to mine
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February 22, 2011 at 12:23 -
I was a census collector in 1991 (I think)
One of the worst jobs I’ve ever done. I’m sure most of it was complete lies. It’s not until you do this job that you realise what shit order the majority of people’s homes and lives are in – the amount of alcoholics too.
I got so frustrated that at one point I kicked a whole bag of completed census forms across someone’s garden.
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February 22, 2011 at 12:51 -
As I commented upon the Blog to which I sometimes contribute:-
I will probably take the lazy road, and reply with acronyms:-
N.O.Y.B.
N.O.Y.F.B.
W.T.H.H.I.G.T.D.W.Y.?
W.Y.F.H.H.I.G.T.D.W.Y?
Or the great catch-all reply:-
F.O.!!!
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February 22, 2011 at 13:11 -
I’d love to tell them to stick their census where the sun don’t shine. Is the £1,000 non completion fine for real, do you think? Guess I’ll fill in some of it but certainly not about my employer etc.
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February 22, 2011 at 14:13 -
Three Million failed to complete in 2001, only 98 convictions.
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February 22, 2011 at 13:22 -
After the expenses scandals and publicity about public sector salaries I wonder if officialdom knows or cares how much it’s resented.
I can’t see how stated views about religion could be checked anyway, without putting a polygraph on people. You hear enough crap from pests on the doorstep to concoct a nicely weird story about angels and Armageddon. A nice touch would be to work in 2012 and the Mayan calendar. I bet they’re trained not to upset peoples’ religious views so they could be drawn in to a real imaginative cesspit. -
February 22, 2011 at 13:44 -
February 22, 2011 at 14:05 -
The only people who fill it in are the law abiding citizens. Illegal immigrants etc will not. So does it give a true picture? But I agree with SBML that its good for family history. I have some interesting stuff about my family from about 1900: I never knew “gastronome and wastrel” was an official profession!
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February 22, 2011 at 15:02 -
Been there done that:
http://thecynicaltendency.blogspot.com/2010/07/counting-out-census.html
Incidentally, on the Census form pictured you will find Hawley Crippen who was hanged for murdering his wife whose remains have been identified recently as male. -
February 22, 2011 at 15:38 -
Form? What form? Any one seen a form?
Nah mate, never seen it.-
February 22, 2011 at 17:08
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February 22, 2011 at 16:11 -
The reason why this comment is anonymous will become clear.
I am a freelance consultant to ONS, and have worked on the data processing side of the Census. ONS have little to do with the data collection apart from assuring the quality of the incoming reports. I know many of the other ONS statisticians and staff. They are amongst the very best technical people I have worked with, either in public or private organisations.
Data security is considered very highly indeed, and the levels of data protection greatly exceed those of some banks for whom I have worked. The information gathered is aggregated and this summarised data is what used amongst many departments in ONS for several different purposes. It is very useful in planning the efficient delivery of publicly-funded services, including health.
The Census is helpful to the smooth running of our country and it should be an opportunity for every person to contribute to that smooth running. As I understand it, Libertarianism does not preclude co-operation with government in useful ways. Or does your Libertarianism only start to become effective once society is modelled in your image?
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February 22, 2011 at 16:50 -
That’s as may be, Anon, but is it really any business of the government what my shoe size is? The questions being asked are way beyond what I’m prepared to answer, I’m afraid.
Name, rank and serial number will be about all you get from me.
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February 22, 2011 at 17:12 -
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February 22, 2011 at 17:46 -
@Snaptophobic
Silly remarks about shoe size don’t help. If you’re determined to be bolshie for its own sake I won’t convince you otherwise.@Andrew P Withers
No, I’m not jesting. If you think it’s bad now, try to imagine how much worse it would be if those who are trying to plan resources were flying completely blind.-
February 22, 2011 at 22:18 -
If the government wants my personal information then it should have spent the past several years demonstrating that I could trust it to use that information wisely. Instead, they managed the opposite and I object even to giving them information they already have. I’m much older and wiser than ten years ago, and I might be exercising some of Mike’s acronyms and possibly inventing some of my own. My handwriting is terrible, too.
I know we’ve had a change in government last year, but pretty much the whole thing was supposedly set in stone and the current lot claimed it was too late to change anything.
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February 23, 2011 at 08:38 -
I never used to be bolshie. I’ve always supported the census in the past, but the questions about my earnings, my employer and so on are beyond the pale. I’ve not been given any clue as to why that kind of information is required. Besides, most of it is readily available from my tax returns and national insurance information.
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February 22, 2011 at 18:07 -
Time to stiffen my browser security protections – I bet the on-line form is going to insist on Javascript or other dodgy bit of programming.
Perhaps we ought to have a competition for the most creative answers to the questions. I wonder if that’s a good weekend for a trip to France? ‘Sorry guv, we weren’t in the UK on that date.’
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February 22, 2011 at 18:12 -
“Libertarianism does not preclude co-operation with government in useful ways. Or does your Libertarianism only start to become effective once society is modelled in your image?”
I see you choose the word ‘co-operation’. The question is whether that co-operation is forced or voluntary. There is a world of difference between the two, and you can find your own examples I’m sure. The question you pose makes little sense – unless you adhere to the maxim ‘everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state’, which I’m sure you don’t. The fact is, that your exhortations to ‘contribute to the smooth running of the state’ are far less effective than the threat of a £1000 fine, but even that will not make everyone go along.
I hope the census is an utter failure, and if I can contribute to this, I will feel that I have served my country well, notwithstanding your loss of tax-payer cash. I don’t want my country run by people like you, smoothly or otherwise.
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February 22, 2011 at 18:29 -
I can’t think of a better word than “co-operation”, it’s what it is. Collaboration has unfortunate overtones, “submit to” denotes servility, neither is appropriate in this case.
I don’t like the contingent threat of a fine, I wish they hadn’t done that. The simple fact is that an accurate view of a nation’s demographic is necessary to reduce future expenditure. Is that a bad thing?
It is also a fact that recent governments have squandered much of the goodwill of the populace and automatically assume wholesale non-compliance as the default attitude. In that they are probably not wrong, and this is not helped by cheap jibes against any easy target like the census.
You are right, I don’t adhere to that maxim. I do adhere to essentially Libertarian principles, but those allow me to willingly co-operate with any state scheme that I think will be useful. Unless I’ve misunderstood, and Libertarianism requires automatic opposition to anything emanating from central government?
I find it perverse that anyone would prefer to see “tax-payer cash” wasted because of bad information rather than contribute to its efficient use.
So you don’t want the country run by Libertarians?
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February 22, 2011 at 19:00 -
I don’t believe it’s necessary. The exercise is a waste of money. Personally, I wouldn’t mind if it was simply; name, age, sex and a few other things, but not 31 pages of nosey questions.
“Libertarianism requires automatic opposition to anything emanating from central government?”
No, it doesn’t, but it does require automatic scepticism, and automatic resentment of coercive measures, especially of such dubious worth, and I don’t believe that it makes any difference whether I, as one individual, fill it in or not, any more than my one vote counts in the safe Labour seat where I reside. I have no problem if you wish to willingly co-operate.
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February 22, 2011 at 19:10 -
Sorry for sounding a bit rude, btw.
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February 22, 2011 at 19:46 -
Robust argument only sounds rude to the meek so that excludes thee an’ me.
I’ve seen what happens to the information gathered and I think it is necessary or at least useful, and will save you and me money in the future. I have seen the forms and I don’t think that anyone will be required to fill in anything like 32 pages. Most pages have only a few questions, many are tick boxes, a sizeable proportion are optional, many only apply to small sections of the community. Please feel free to register yourself as an adherent of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, your preference will be faithfully recorded (see what I did there?).
Yes, scepticism should always be automatic, but resentment is just a negative emotion. I was very sceptical before I started working with ONS, I’m not now. Your completion of the census form will probably have a more positive effect on your fellow citizens’ lives than voting for a non-Labour candidate in a safe Labour constituency. Where I come from we are starting to see independent representation by using STV in elections. Will you vote in the AV referendum?
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February 23, 2011 at 08:40 -
“A sizeable proportion are optional”?
The only questions I know to be optional, or that one can opt out of, is the one on religion. That leaves the rest which are “required by law”.
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February 22, 2011 at 22:20 -
Are the questions available yet, or is it just hints and leaks to the media so far? Google didn’t show up exactly what we’re going to be asked yet.
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February 22, 2011 at 22:51 -
ONS is not a secretive organisation: http://www.ons.gov.uk/census/2011-census/2011-census-questionnaire-content.
I have seen the forms and they are laid out in a way that is easier even to understand than these simple documents.
ONS only sets the questions for England and Wales – Scotland and NI have their own versions.
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February 22, 2011 at 23:07 -
I thought the info was being collected by Lockheed Martin and sent to America ? Or is that all rubbish ?
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February 22, 2011 at 23:34 -
It is being collected by Lockheed Martin – it does not leave the UK.
LM are managing the collection, interpretation and collation of the data – ONS process and record the results for analysis. Census enumerators are mainly temporary staff.
Full info here: http://www.ons.gov.uk/census/2011-census/index.html
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February 22, 2011 at 23:36
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