Flippin’ ‘Eck and his chums are working their way through the world choosing Countries for Scotland to aspire to imitate.

As the selected paragons fall over one by one, ‘Eck gets another country out of his pack of Top Trumps.

Why not play along and check them off, and keep a note when they stop doing the comparison?

There are only a few dozen countries in the world of about the right size.

Who knows – there are at least two years to go and they may run out.

If I have my propositional logic right, this is a continuing No True Scotsman fallacy, which seems appropriate.

Here’s the Bingo card. Citations below, either by Alex Salmond or an official spokesperson. Cybergnats in Comment Threads don’t usually count, I’m afraid. You can print our a PDF copy here.

Any more for any more?

Citations:

Norway:

But Mr Store, a member of a Centre-Left government that took power three years ago, said very little oil and gas revenue goes to the Norwegian exchequer, with the money instead going into “a pension fund that will be used for our children and grandchildren.”

Arguing that “comparisons between Norway and Scotland have some clear limitations”, he added: “Norway has been an independent state for more than 100 years.

Qatar:

Alex Salmond hailed the “remarkable similarities” between Scotland and Qatar during a visit to the oil-rich Gulf state.

He said: “As nations, we both have considerable expertise in oil and gas production, but as we look to the future and a low-carbon economy, we must increasingly develop new technologies.

“We discussed the remarkable similarities between our respective nations. Although both Scotland and Qatar have common strengths in the oil and gas sector, we are both seeking to develop our low-carbon energy industries.

Iceland, Ireland, Norway (again):

AN INDEPENDENT Scotland would become part of a northern European “arc of prosperity”, the Scottish National Party promised yesterday.

Alex Salmond, the SNP leader, claimed that Ireland, Iceland and Norway demonstrated that small independent countries were amongst the richest in the world.

Mr Salmond said that all three “young countries” had become independent in the 20th century and moved from being less prosperous than Scotland to being more economically successful.

SNP Hokey-Cokey: The original speech miraculously vanished from the SNP website and then reappeared in June this year.

This post was inspired by the Alex Salmond Dictator Comparison Bingo at Podgamer.

[Updated: 22/2/2012 9:15am. Iceland, Ireland added.]

Picture found via: Lallands Peat Worrier.

 

Joe Public
February 22, 2012 at 08:23

The SNP spokeperson’s comment about Norway husbanding its gas resources is particularly ironic.

Gas from Norway’s Frigg field is landed at St. Fergus near Peterhead.

alan
February 22, 2012 at 10:18

And the low-carbon vision in Qatar’s is nuclear, while the SNP’s is renewables.

Captain Ranty
February 22, 2012 at 09:08

In defence of little Iceland, she may have fell over but she stood up again.

Real people power, IMHO. In fact, it shows what a small country CAN do, when the folks are determined to say no to their political elite. I long for the day when we grow a pair and say the same.

All over the world, (and it pains me to say this), it isn’t entirely their governments fault, it’s the banks. They should be allowed to fail. Iceland is proof that “No” is an acceptable-if not a required-answer.

Greece today will not benefit from a single euro shovelled her way. It’s all going to make the bank managers happy.

And that is the tragedy.

Can Scotland stand on her own two feet? She will be wobbly for a while but I see no reason why not. Will she be independent? Never. Not as long as Wee Eck is determined to run to Brussels the morning after independence is granted. All he will do is swap one master for another.

I’d fight for true independence (if it were an option), but instead I will campaign with everything I have to ensure Scotland does not become another Greece or another Ireland.

The EU has enough vassals.

CR.

uk Fred
February 24, 2012 at 19:39

Captain, MY Captain, you know that all the Scots with any get up and go got up and went some time ago, leaving the workshiy and the benefit scroungers behind. They haven’t got enough work ethic left in the country to orgainise a party in a whisky bond, let alone a distillery. To be independent you need to be willing to work. That’s why there will never be independence for Scotland, unless there is net immigration from Canada and New Zealand, and I cannot see that happening in my lifetime.

2mac
February 22, 2012 at 10:01

Assuming no politician or country have all the answers. The sensible thing to do is look around and see what others are doing that is working and providing true benefits to the populations. What policies have worked? Lets copy them. Surely this is just sensible.

Iceland & Ireland may have had trouble in recent years. They are still great places to live for the people and both will recover.

Norway being most like Scotland in natural resources is an obvious choice for comparison of how you can be small & well run. How you can have a government that spends it’s revenue on the population that generated the revenue. Where politicians put the people first. They are inwardly focussed on issues affecting them. Not borrowing trillions to spend around the world on ideological nonsense.

Compare that to the UK government in Westminster obsessed with status on world stage, military power, foreign interventions & overseas aid.

The UK Politicians borrow hundreds of billions of pounds underwritten by the people and future generations taxes to spend on Nukes we will never, wars we can never win, aid to countries with more money than us, trying to project power we do not have & bailing out bankers who gambled our money away so the banks could then buy government bonds with money that does not exist.

I am a simple man. I just want my taxes to build schools in UK, hospitals for sick, infrastructure to keep economy moving & councils to light my streets & collect my bins each week, etc.

I know these mundane real life necessities are not as politically sexy as dropping freedom bombs on insane desert people, feeding Africas rapidly increasing & unsustainable population, saving ice in the arctic or trees in the amazon but the mundane necessities are what taxes are for.

I welcome the ideas if Salmond as I welcome independence. It will not be a utopian land of milk & honey but a small government focussed on the people & things that matter to the people who pay for it.

Paul
February 22, 2012 at 11:32

This…

“Compare that to the UK government in Westminster obsessed with status on world stage, military power, foreign interventions & overseas aid.

The UK Politicians borrow hundreds of billions of pounds underwritten by the people and future generations taxes to spend on Nukes we will never, wars we can never win, aid to countries with more money than us, trying to project power we do not have & bailing out bankers who gambled our money away so the banks could then buy government bonds with money that does not exist.”

… is absolutely the problem with the politicians of Westminster and Whitehall busy bodies.

Matt Wardman
February 22, 2012 at 10:36

>Assuming no politician or country have all the answers. The sensible thing to do is look around and see what others are doing that is working and providing true benefits to the populations. What policies have worked? Lets copy them. Surely this is just sensible.

Yes agreed. And good questions.

The problem with comparisons for rhetorical reasons, is that they don’t illuminate – although there’s a lot of fun to be had with Mr Salmond.

One question which hasn’t yet been debated to my knowledge is what would an independent Scottish economy be built on – the national champions with 20k employees headquartered in Scotland, which are in the Nordic countries don’t exist. You don’t grow an Arla, a Maersk or a Husqvarna overnight.

I think that there are perhaps greater similarities with the more developed Eastern/Central European economies, as an indie Scotland would have the commanding heights of the economy owned from overseas for decades.

Slovakia and Denmark?

Doug Daniel
February 23, 2012 at 10:57

I’m not sure why I’m bothering to reply here, but for a start, Iceland and Ireland remain ahead of the UK in terms of GDP per capita. Lest we forget that Osborne’s economic plans are based on the sole aim of keeping the UK’s triple-A credit rating and to hell with the consequences for actual people, yet it’s becoming increasingly clear that he’s going to fail in even this modest aim.

It’s rather unedifying to point at other countries and laugh at their troubles – which is effectively what is going on when people mock the countries to which the SNP has drawn comparisons with Scotland – but it’s an all too familiar concept in Britain, which has suffered from a strange mix of feelings of inferiority and superiority since the demise of the Empire. It’s also a bit silly, because we’ve not yet reached the bottom, so who knows, it might be the UK that is asking for handouts when the credit rating starts sliding and the massive deficit, which the government is rather spectacularly failing to reduce, suddenly becomes completely unserviceable.

It’s particularly daft to poke fun at Iceland – it may have “fallen over”, but while every other country (the UK in particular) has just carried on with the same failed system of appeasing the banks, Iceland has taken the opportunity to start again and do things differently, choosing to include their population in the process, rather than excluding them. They will be a better country as a result, unlike Greece, who are opting to allow their country to be gutted. It’s fairly obvious which direction the UK will follow if/when the ratings agency pull the rug out from under us.

As to growing a Maersk overnight, I find that a particularly odd comment. Perhaps I’m at an advantage as I live in Aberdeen and work in the oil industry, but for every Maersk, Arla and Husqvarna you can mention (bit bizarre you mention those last two when Aker is a far more obvious example), I can give you a Wood Group, Cairn or Balmoral Group. It’s particularly amusing that you mention Maersk, as I’ve worked in their complex in Aberdeen (as well as Amec, BP, Shell, BG, Schlumberger, Marathon, Total, Nexen… ach, I’m just showing off now). So not only do we not NEED to grow our own Maersk “overnight”, but thanks to our oil industry, most of these companies have a presence in Scotland already, employing hundreds of thousands of people and contributing to the huge part played in the UK economy by the industry. It’s pretty obvious what Scotland will base its economy on for the next 40 years, and by the time oil runs out, we’ll be playing a similar role in regards to the renewable energy industry.

But quite apart from that, it always interests me when people demand to know what an independent Scotland’s economy will be built on, because it makes it sound like every other country in the world has clearly defined economy. Newsflash: they don’t. I could demand to know what the rest of the UK’s economy is built on, because I suspect the most obvious answer is “banking”, which is a pretty shoogly peg at the moment, but it’s pretty difficult coming up with any other answers. Scotland has oil, renewable energy, IT (Dundee is famed for its games industry, and Avaloq have just decided to base themselves in Edinburgh due to the wealth of software experience we have), life sciences, as well as several world-class food & drink exports (people are always quick to say “haha, whisky and shortbread”, but we’ll quite happily take the £4 billion the whisky industry generates for ourselves – not to mention that top restaurants tend to serve Scottish produce like venison, salmon and even Stornoway black pudding). Finland is one of the stronger economies in the EU, but I’ll be buggered if I have a clue what their main industries are, and I can only assume the Dutch economy is built on cheese and Belgium’s on chocolate and beer. Oh, not forgetting the Danish, whose entire economy is apparently built on bacon and excellent TV dramas.

Tell you what, you worry about how the UK is going to service its debts without the £1 trillion of Scottish North Sea oil as collateral, and we’ll worry about how we’re going to survive on our tiny, wee economy, which the OECD, Citigroup and others reckon will quickly outpace the rest of the UK economy upon independence.

Matt Wardman
February 24, 2012 at 12:51

Thanks for that Doug.

I’ll return to the Scottish Economy in another post.

>Perhaps I’m at an advantage as I live in Aberdeen and work in the oil industry, but for every Maersk, Arla and Husqvarna you can mention (bit bizarre you mention those last two when Aker is a far more obvious example), I can give you a Wood Group, Cairn or Balmoral Group.

Arla is in my mind because of the Motoons; Husqvarna as a premier supplier of pro power tools.

>But quite apart from that, it always interests me when people demand to know what an independent Scotland’s economy will be built on, because it makes it sound like every other country in the world has clearly defined economy.

That would be because it’s not any other country currently with a party seeking to separate, and because it’s quite reasonable to have a debate about it.

>Tell you what, you worry about how the UK is going to service its debts without the £1 trillion of Scottish North Sea oil as collateral, and we’ll worry about how we’re going to survive on our tiny, wee economy, which the OECD, Citigroup and others reckon will quickly outpace the rest of the UK economy upon independence.

Heh.

I think the debate needs to move beyond the pooh-poohing noises Mr S comes up with when anyone dares to disagree with him about future prospects.

Donald MacCormack.
February 27, 2012 at 20:45

Top post Doug, and save me from posting in a much similar vein,very well done. They definitely do not like it upem. When you see people using terminology like “bullshit bingo,” you know exactly where their head is!

Matt Wardman
February 27, 2012 at 21:16

Lovin’ it !

GildasTheMonk
February 22, 2012 at 10:37

The idea of Scottish Independence is really growing on me…
Great piece Matt!

Frankie
February 23, 2012 at 10:54

I agree! ‘Cast those mutinous buggers adrift there, Mr. Bligh’. Lets see how long they last with no subsidy from England.

Matt Wardman
February 22, 2012 at 10:39

I reckon I’ve seen Canada somewhere, and Holland (but that was in a comments thread at the Groan).

This will run.

Ed P
February 22, 2012 at 10:55

Great picture!
“Slippery fish eyes up bait”

Peter MacFarlane
February 22, 2012 at 10:56

“Norway has been an independent country for over 100 years”

Well yes, and Scotland isn’t now, and doesn’t ever plan to be.

Ask wee Eck who’ll be running Fisheries policy in his “independent” Scotland; ask him who’ll be in charge of foreign policy; ask him who will decide on industrial policy, on “green” energy targets, on maritime safety, on… oh, you get the idea.

The answer (which he won’t give you of course) in every single case is “unelected and unremoveable officials in Brussels”.

Independence my a**.

Paul Brown
February 22, 2012 at 11:10

Interesting.

In terms of the debate that is, since the unionist version of bullshit bingo involves a list of despots they’ve compared Alex Salmond to and fascist organisations they feel the SNP is emulating.

More desperate arguments for an increasingly desperate cause.

If you read the SNP literature (ignorance of it does not negate its existence) we are promised referenda on the EU. I’ll bide my time on that right enough because I’m nothing like as keen on the EU as the SNP seems to be. I get why they’re making positive noises though, they don’t want to alienate the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of EU migrant workers already here since they’ll be voting too.

Cynical manoeuvering? I think probably yes.

Matt Wardman
February 22, 2012 at 11:17

>unionist version of bullshit bingo involves a list of despots they’ve compared Alex Salmond to and fascist organisations they feel the SNP is emulating

Do you happen to have a link; that’s what inspired this post.

Found it and added a link.

And reviewing it most of the comparisons are far milder than for examples things thrown at Gordon Brown.

I love that the journalist in the New Statesman didn’t bother to check that the comment she based her article from hadn’t been copied from somewhere.

Gallovidian
February 22, 2012 at 11:36

Alex doesn’t want Scotland to be like Norway; they are independent, nationalistic, prosperous and clean.

He wants us in the EU, internationalist, on welfare and on drugs.

Gordon Wilson was a nationalist, Alex Salmond is a Marxist Bildenberger stooge.

Brian
February 22, 2012 at 15:46

I don’t know why Salmond looks so ecstatic in that photo; deep-fried porridge was invented years ago. And noone else in the world would buy it except for Burns Night breakfasts.
Let’s hope that Norwegian Government Pension Fund – Global didn’t invest in Greece. Ooops!

Matt Wardman
February 22, 2012 at 18:54

He thinks it’s lunch.

davidb
February 22, 2012 at 20:10

What fun. Can we play a version where a governor of a Bank Of England forecasts inflation, or any politician predicts the outcome of a war, or in fact where any politician says anything about anything anytime anywhere?

Matt
February 22, 2012 at 20:27

Submit a post.

Or see the stuff that Salmond gets upset about