Prurient Interest v. Public Interest.
Regular readers will be aware of my long standing interest in the Court of Protection. It was the Stephen Neary case, first published here, which opened the door to the ‘Transparency Pilot’ and the admission of the media to hearings of the Court of Protection – with several provisos.
Not the least of which was respect for the vulnerable nature of the people whose lives were under discussion and who were not able to decide for themselves whether they wished the public to know every last detail of their problems. Hence, normally, cases were anonymised.
However, equally normally, the purview of the Court of Protection (COP) ended with the death of the ‘patient’, as those whose affairs are discussed by the court are known.
Today, Mr Justice Charles has handed down a judgement requesting anonymity for a patient long after death. He has done so, both as a sitting judge in the COP and ‘as a High Court’ Judge. It is likely to have far reaching implications for the media.
The ‘Transparency Pilot’ came into being as part of the drive to open up the Family Courts in general to public view – ‘Justice must be seen to be done’ – without losing sight of the fact that these people were not in any sense criminal; they did not deserve to have their private affairs trawled over by a prurient public.
Re Kings College Hospital NHS Foundation Trust v C & V [2015] EWCOP 80 was just such a case. ‘C’ was, as was her right, providing she had full mental capacity, refusing medical treatment for a serious condition. Her Doctors at Kings College Hospital naturally wanted a declaration that she did have the mental capacity to make such a decision.
Mr Justice MacDonald decided that she did have full mental capacity and that her decision was valid. An anonymised account of the reasons behind that decision was published a few days later. She died a matter of four days later, to the great distress of her family. In the normal course of events, the reporting restrictions would have lapsed with her death.
The fact that a court had agreed that ‘C’ was perfectly entitled to refuse further medical treatment, even though it would lead to her death, would barely have occupied a half inch of column space, if that – indeed, there was one lone Press Association reporter present – were it not for the fact that the court had had to hear evidence as to why she had made her decision. That evidence was reflected in the anonymised transcript.
That evidence contained buzzwords – clickbait – to thrill the soul of any tabloid reporter. I don’t intend to repeat them here. The media scrambled to attention.
In the Guardian, a columnist criticised the evidence of C’s family, and its acceptance by the court.
As a consequence, the solicitor of the one member of ‘C’s family who had attended the hearing received ’24 press enquiries’. Another relative heard from 40 friends and acquaintances who had been approached by journalists.
The family made an application to the court to have the reporting restrictions extended. They had not only lost an important member of their family in distressing circumstances, but by:
the extensive media interest in the information about C and their family that was provided to the COP, which appears to them to have been precipitated not only by a wish to report and comment on the bases on which the COP reached its decision but also to attract prurient interest in their mother’s sexual and relationship history (including her relationship with her children V, G and A).
V and G were adults; but C’s youngest daughter, A, was a teenager who was already suffering from fragile mental health which had manifested itself in her physical conduct. The suicide attempt of her mother and her subsequent refusal of life-sustaining treatment despite A’s request to her to accept treatment, with which A had a direct and stressful involvement, have understandably had an appalling impact on A’s emotional and psychological wellbeing.
At around 5.30 pm on Wednesday 2 December 2015 a reporter from the Daily Mail went to the home of A’s father (an ex-husband of C) where A lives. A answered the door and without saying who she was the reporter asked to speak to her father using his name, V asked who she was and was told that she was a journalist from the Daily Mail, A’s father came downstairs and the journalist asked if he would talk to her about his ex-wife. He refused and the journalist left.
That episode was all of four days after her Mother had died. That evening:
a reporter from the Mail on Sunday was asking questions about C in one of the pubs in the village where A and her father live. This was reported to V by friends in the village.
They were not alone:
More generally, the evidence indicates that on unspecified dates (a) the Daily Mail and the Sun contacted C’s third ex-husband in America, and (b) a journalist went to see the husband of the housekeeper of flats where G had once lived seeking G’s current details on the basis that he was writing a memorial piece about G’s mother and was sure that G would want to speak to him. During his visit he opened C’s Facebook page.
As a consequence of this activity, the media, the same media who complained bitterly about ‘Britain’s’ secret courts’ and demanded admission to them, came up with the following headlines:
The Times:
“Voluntary death. “The socialite allowed to die at 50 rather than grow old had a narcissistic disorder, doctors said. A court ruling blocked her identification. Page 7”….Page 7 contained the edifying headline “I won’t become an old banger” accompanied by pixilated photographs.
The Daily Mail went with:
“Revealed: Truth about the socialite who chose death over growing old and ugly and the troubling questions over a judge’s decision to let her do it”.
The Sun excelled with:
“Mum who fought to die was “man eater obsessed with sex, cars and cash”.
Accompanied by two pixelated photographs of C at a younger age each showing her with a drink in hand. In one in which she is wearing a low-cut party dress and in the other she is raising her skirt – they appear to be the same clothing in pictures published in the other papers.
Mr Justice Charles opinion of this coverage was that:
I am satisfied that […] V and G are correct in asserting that much of the publicity was precipitated not only by a wish to report and comment on the bases on which the Court reached its decision but also to attract prurient interest in their mother’s sexual and relationship history.
The media cared nothing for the distress of the two adult children, nor for the fragile mental health of ‘C’s teenage daughter. At the hearing on 9th December 2015 to extend the reporting restrictions – somewhat after the ‘horse’ had bolted – the media lawyers ‘did not recognise that some of the media attention had caused significant distress to C’s family, or that identification of C would or would be likely to cause further and heightened distress to C’s family and a risk of serious harm to A’.
Four months later, after they have had their column inches, they say this was only because they hadn’t had ‘time to consider the Applicant’s evidence prior to the hearing’ – not that they mentioned that at the time….
Now they have reconsidered. Now they think there should be reporting restrictions – but only until the youngest daughter is 18. The Daily Mail made the following statement to the court:
The Daily Mail considers it has a duty to the public to report fairly and accurately on what happens in the courts. In order to engage the interest of members of the public in the kinds of issues the court decides, it is however necessary to publish articles and reports that people actually want to read. That means telling our readers about the facts of the cases, including the real people and places involved, and sometimes publishing pictures that relate to these people and places.
Mr Justice Charles responded that:
When cases engage issues of such high public importance and interest I am unpersuaded by Mr Steafel’s assertion that anonymised reporting of them would become “arid and academic philosophical debates” and “would not engage the public in any meaningful way”.
So, we have another injunction – and quite right too. The chidlren do have a right to privacy, and not to be the subject of lurid coverage through no fault of their own – nor their Mother’s. It was the wish of Kings College doctors to be sure of their legal standing that brought her private life into the public domain – not any action of hers.
An interesting result given that PJS v News Group Newspapers Ltd [2016] EWCA Civ 100 is due to receive a decision one day this week.
Was it really impossible for the media to cover a case of ‘the right to refuse medical treatment’ without giving us the low down on a much loved Mother’s previous sexual history? Do we really need to know the intricate details of PJSs sexual shenanigans? Is that what a free press is for?
‘What about the children’ is a reasonable argument sometimes when you weigh their mental health against the right of the public to ‘read whatever they want’.
What think you?
Those who want to read the full transcript will find it here.
- Pericles Xanthippou
April 25, 2016 at 7:01 pm -
Since you ask my opinion, Mme. Raccoon, I’ll give it.
These hacks are not — as they would be called — journalists; Pepys and Johnson were journalists. I think their hands and their editors’ should be severed, that they never write anything again.
But you know my dictum: “Kill ’em all: let God sort them out!”
ΠΞ
- suffolkgirl
April 25, 2016 at 8:35 pm -
For what it’s worth I totally agree with you and the judge on this one. It makes a nonsense of the papers’ constant claim that they only go after the rich and famous or people who have otherwise brought press intrusion on themselves. I can’t see any particular lesson to be learnt from this woman’s story so IMHO the public would be none the worse of it never had been reported at all.
- Richard
April 25, 2016 at 8:51 pm -
To misapropriate another phrase:
It’s a fair COP.
- suffolkgirl
April 25, 2016 at 9:04 pm -
The other interesting point for me is how the Facebook photos gave this story legs. It seems to be the norm now that the redtops access the accounts of victims and accused alike and random photos from happier times get the Mrs Grundy treatment
Conversely there was a tragic death in the village where I live which had the press arrive in droves, but the deceased had apparently minimal online presence, which seems to have baffled them somewhat, given that no actual person would give them any salacious titbits.- Peter Raite
April 26, 2016 at 12:31 pm -
The tabloids regularly ignore copyright and steal photographs from social media. It’s the modern reinvention of them pocketing a framed family photograph when they trick their way into a target’s home.
- Peter Raite
- Ted Treen
April 25, 2016 at 10:57 pm -
I believe it was Denis Thatcher who was reputed to refer to reporters as “The reptiles”. How very perceptive of him.
- JuliaM
April 27, 2016 at 7:20 am -
A bit harsh. As was ‘Spitting Image’ portray as pigs with little press cards in their hats.
Reptiles and swine are noble creatures.
- Pericles Xanthippou
April 27, 2016 at 9:42 am -
I agree, Julia. I heard on Lord Hall-Hall’s transmitter this morning some-one say that thirty years ago soccer stadia were dirty and cramped ‘as if built to house animals’. Now, I’ve never been to a soccer stadium (although I did once park at Wembley — on what I assume was hallowed concrete — to attend a computer exhibition) but much resent the suggestion that unpleasant places be fit for animals.
I hear the same quite often from the ‘migrants’, complaining about the camps in which they have to wait for the next wonderful gestation of the policies of the half-witted German chancellor. “We’re not animals!” they say, with the obvious implication.
ΠΞ
- Pericles Xanthippou
- JuliaM
- Michael Massey
April 25, 2016 at 11:06 pm -
I used to live a few doors along from a woman whose child had been stillborn in particularly distressing circumstances. I did not know her or anything about her case.
When a scumbag reporter from the Mail came sniffing around knocking on doors along the street, I could honestly say I had no idea what he was talking about and if I had I would not have told him anything. When he persisted I suggested he move along before I went back inside to fetch a blunt instrument to see if that would be more persuasive.
I am pleased to say that without exception all the other neighbours took the same line – the only variation being in whether they just slammed the door or told him to go forth and multiply.
Journalists my arse.
The title of the good landlady’s piece is spot on.
- Mzungu
April 26, 2016 at 7:02 am -
Yes, I will be keeping the title to one side for future use.
- windsock
April 26, 2016 at 7:14 am -
Sex sells. And if it sells, well, obviously, there has to be a buyer. And that, unfortunately, is us.
Like you, I think the press behaves abominably, especially where women are seen to go against accepted social norms, and I don’t want to read this crap. But the paper publishers need their revenues and until we start demanding the news that can help us form rounded views of the world with correct and relevant information (i.e. we stop buying/clicking on this crap), this is what we shall get. We are complicit. (Well, obviously not all of us, but I am speaking generally of the Great British public).
- Ho Hum
April 26, 2016 at 10:35 am -
I know I have referred to this here before, but the ecology of these pond life denizens, and the thinking of those who feed and are fed, is nowhere better summed up in this article. It’s well worth taking the time to read it in full
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084453/Paul-Dacres-speech-full.html
The bit where the Great Writer states that ‘Others, such as myself, believe it is the duty of the media to take an ethical stand’ is beyond parody.
Still, it gives you a lot more respect for the people who have to clean the real sewers of the effluent served up by the rest of us…
- windsock
April 26, 2016 at 11:07 am -
I tried, Ho Hum, I really did, but I couldn’t get to the end. His mission “to tweak the noses of the liberalocracy which effectively run Britain” seems to have driven him a little crazy.
- windsock
- Ho Hum
- Doris
April 26, 2016 at 8:27 am -
The film that will be made about late Who manager Kit Lambert, directed by actor Cary Elwes and produced by his brother Cassian, deals with this very subject. Lambert was talked into putting himself under the care of the Court of Protection after he was busted for heroin possession and then found the last years of life controlled by them. Despite him having a small fortune he was doled out a tiny weekly allowance from then on.
- Fat Steve
April 26, 2016 at 10:41 am -
@Windsock Sex sells. And if it sells, well, obviously, there has to be a buyer. And that, unfortunately, is us.
Perhaps unsurprisingly I never caught this strory. Unsurprisingly? Yes because finding the whole Savile ‘revelations’ inexplicable I thought it might be useful to look for an explanation and chanced upon this site. To cut a long story short within six weeks I stopped buying newspapers and can’t recollect buying one in the last 3/4 years. Am I less informed ? possibly but on balance probably not. I am though confident I am less wrongly informed . Would my life have been richer had I known of this story ? Difficult to think it would have been…..actually I conclude (quite apart from missing out on the Press’ misrepresentation of the legal principle of the case) that if I had had knowledge of it I might have thought it should be relevant to my life on the basis that it was ‘news’ because the Press told me so. Rubbish of course .
I can think of no good reason (absent that the celebrity was a total hypocrite which she appears unlikely to have been since she appears to have been disconcertingly honest) why personalising the story could add anything to anybody’s life though of course it could take much from those who have some genuine property in it in terms of personal relationships.
The remedy windsock is as you suggest to turn away from those who encourage one to think one has a right in the lives of others when one plainly does not - Moor Larkin
April 26, 2016 at 11:04 am -
It had never struck me before, possibly because it’s all such a secret, but maybe one big reason the NHS has become so enmeshed with lawyers and their ilk is because of this complicated relationship between those who care for our bodies and those who increasingly wish to care for our souls, and the way they have to do everything MI5 style.
- leady
April 26, 2016 at 12:05 pm -
As horrible as the tabloids are, I’m afraid people like this are the eggs in the omelette of a free and open society. I worry far more about the impacts of reporting restrictions on the UK populace over the fleeting infamy of individuals.
- suffolkgirl
April 26, 2016 at 12:19 pm -
You don’t live in a free society if you cannot live a private life which harms no one but yourself without powerful corporations invadimg it to make a buck. There have to be some controls which here were properly applied.
- Ho Hum
April 26, 2016 at 12:28 pm -
You don’t live in a free society if you cannot live a private life which harms no one but yourself without powerful corporations and nasty loathsome individuals invadimg it to make a buck. There should be some generally acceptable moral boundaries, which here, thankfully, were properly discerned and applied.
There, FIFY
- leady
April 26, 2016 at 1:55 pm -
I afraid I don’t agree that you have the right to live free of things that make your life unpleasant, particularly if its caused by your behaviours and in doing so setting a very flexible & dangerous principle. I guess I’m not a great believer in bounded universal rights. Privacy is guaranteed to 99.99% of people by the simplicity of conformity and obscurity.
- windsock
April 26, 2016 at 2:07 pm -
Why should unconformity make one the subject of press intrusion? You are welcome to your world of Stepford Wives. I’d much rather live in a world where people can indulge their legal peccadlilos and I have no need to know, unless it becomes a matter of mutual interest and discussion.
- Ho Hum
April 26, 2016 at 2:58 pm -
I guess that he means that you couldn’t be gay, nor I be Christian, and both be out about it.
Sheeesshhhh, some people don’t get it, do they?
LOL
- windsock
April 26, 2016 at 3:17 pm -
No, and sometimes I think those people are wilfully determined not to get it. More groan than LOL.
- leady
April 26, 2016 at 3:57 pm -
Neither of those things have made a curtain twitch in a very long time in practice. But Mosley proclivities for example most likely still do (less though since the antics of Christian grey have become mainstream).
Unconformity is a necessary but not sufficient factor for social interest. There must be thousands of swingers in this country (millions) but you need to combine that with say being an MP or a celeb for people to care. People are far more tolerant of social things these days, but there are a lot of people that like a bit of juicy gossip, particularly something novel like this case.
At the end of the day I’d prefer that everyone has the right to speak truth let alone speak freely, rather than have a small number of people pre-police everything. But I’m aware i’m more American than English in this regard
- Ho Hum
April 26, 2016 at 8:41 pm -
Since when was purveying salacious gossip elevated to the realms of speaking truth?
Look, no-one that I have seen here over the years seems to be really in favour of centrally imposed, authoritarian, legal controls on reporting, or speech. But there are times when the effluent is at the rim of the bowl and needs to be flushed down the toilet, and someone has the thoroughly unpleasant task of having to stand up and pull the chain.
- Ho Hum
- windsock
- Ho Hum
- Ho Hum
April 26, 2016 at 2:55 pm -
Conformity to what? As defined by who?
- Mudplugger
April 26, 2016 at 3:46 pm -
Conformity to grammatical standards perhaps – “As defined by whom?”.
I’ll get my pedant-coat…….. - Fat Steve
April 26, 2016 at 4:20 pm -
@leady Privacy is guaranteed to 99.99% of people by the simplicity of conformity and obscurity.
Privacy is, I think, best guaranteed by individual discretion caution and restraint and in a case such as this I think the Courts are right in supporting what I see as those virtues …..it is difficult to see those virtues (if virtues they be) being outweighed by ????? well what really????- leady
April 26, 2016 at 4:45 pm -
Political and legal control of publishing information both has a direct political consequence and chilling effect that I consider worse than the 2 weeks of media intrusion this family would suffer. Sucks to be them for sure, but given the choice of make one families life a bit hellish for a week or two vs the increasing corruption of a fundamental principle, well they’ve got to take one for the team.
Of course my personal view is that the UK generally works because of tradition underpinning whole facets of the countries otherwise ill defined systems. I think all that conceptual tradition will be gone in 25 years and all you will be left with is precedent, which is that government can control the press explicitly ala many other countries.
- windsock
April 26, 2016 at 5:22 pm -
So prurience wins. As long as the masses get titillation from someone’s licentiousness or lasciviousness, in which no family member took part, that family just has to lump it. That is not freedom of the press – that is the press abusing its freedom.
- leady
April 27, 2016 at 11:15 am -
Fully agree its all of those things
- leady
- Fat Steve
April 26, 2016 at 5:25 pm -
@leady Political and legal control of publishing information both has a direct political consequence and chilling effect that I consider worse than the 2 weeks of media intrusion this family would suffer.
I am with you on what I think is the principal you advance but I am not sure its an either/or situation.
In practice there is disparity of power both between the Press and the individual and different individuals and the Press. Before all else issues of accuracy of reporting needs to be addressed (other than by means of present libel laws) and then perhaps one might frame some legislation as to Privacy ……oddly enough I think Max Mosley’s notion of advance warning was not such a bad idea but only as to accuracy. Its difficult to justify suppressing the kiss and tell disclosure …..its a matter of personal judgement who one trusts with ones secrets (hence my observation about caution discretion and restraint) and its not unfair that one reaps what one sews……Privacy may be privacy but if one entrusts ones privacy unwisely then I am not sure the state has a legitimate to intervene. Here though the celebrity had no choice as to caution discretion and restraint given the legal intervention in her life and its difficult to argue the Press having some unrestrained derivative right through that process.
- windsock
- leady
- Mudplugger
- windsock
- leady
- Ho Hum
- suffolkgirl
- Lord T
April 26, 2016 at 12:42 pm -
Beats them having to do some real work that could expose corruption in government or something equally worthy of reporting.
- Mudplugger
April 26, 2016 at 2:02 pm -
Which brings it all back to ‘bread and circuses’ – the so-called ‘popular press’ is but a part of the official circus-set.
- Mudplugger
- Major Bonkers
April 26, 2016 at 9:12 pm -
We all approach the facts of a story like this from our own perspective and experience; and, for what it is worth, here’s mine.
What we are actually talking about is an elective suicide. I have come to the conclusion that suicide, which is usually caused by depression, is simultaneously the most selfish thing that anyone can ever do, as its consequences are so shattering to other people.
I haven’t read the law report, but I can’t see why the doctors felt it necessary to get a judgment on the issue. I should have thought that it is ‘trite law’ (as the lawyers say) that unwanted, and therefore forced, medical treatment is – at least – an assault. Anyone ought to have the ability – if of sound mind – to refuse and voluntarily discharge themselves from treatment.
When people go to law, part of the deal is that the case will be public. For example: people who have been promised legacies, and then challenge wills when they are disappointed, weigh up that trade-off: besmirch the public memory of dear old dad, or get what I was promised. The only thing worse than washing one’s dirty linen in public is having secret Courts.
And finally, there is the other lawyer’s old saw: hard cases make bad law. This is a hard case, but I think – from Mrs. Raccoon’s summation of it – that the judge steered a wise course. There is little public interest in knowing the specific details of this case, but there is huge public interest in preserving the principle of the public administration of justice. That it helps Messrs. Dacre and Murdoch might sell a few more papers is regrettable, but it is the price we pay for accountable justice.
- Ho Hum
April 26, 2016 at 9:52 pm -
I didn’t think that the public administration of justice was compromised? Anyone – ‘indeed, there was one lone Press Association reporter present’ – could go down and hear what went on, couldn’t they?
I thought that the issue was that the serious business of the public administration of justice for the parties involved wasn’t turned into a sideshow for the entertainment of the mob, and the financial benefit of those who stand there yelling ‘roll up, roll up, read all about it’. Especially when, as we know, ‘all about it’ is that last thing you will be reading.
Whatever next? Public tours of Wandsworth Prison? Chain gangs by the roadside? Although I will admit that being able to see some tabloid editor flogged in public might give me cause to rethink that one
- Stewart Cowan
April 27, 2016 at 9:11 am -
I agree with Major Bonkers that the main part of the story is that there was an attempted suicide and, despite the pleadings of the teenage daughter, medical intervention was withdrawn.
That the gutter press is diseased is something I’m sure we can all agree on, for a change.
As the Major says, “[suicide] is usually caused by depression,” which is a mental illness, which, I would argue, entitles the medicos to intervene to try to save the woman. After all, isn’t that what the medical profession is supposed to be about?
I think that it is pretty well established that mental health services and expertise lag behind the rest of the NHS – that’s how bad it is.
This, perhaps, is the most pertinent issue here.
- Pericles Xanthippou
April 27, 2016 at 10:06 am -
Stewart’s is a valid point: doctors are supposed to save lives; but that’s not the whole of their mission.
They have a duty, first, to improve not just the quantity of life but, more important, its quality; secondly, to acknowledge the limits of their understanding. Failure to do the second of these underlies much medical suffering; and the first, its prolongation.
Having regard to the limited extent to which man understands the mind, a doctor — a fortiori any-one else — ought to be wary of pronouncing another human mentally incapable, especially in decisions relating to his own care.
ΠΞ
- Stewart Cowan
April 27, 2016 at 8:16 pm -
“Stewart’s is a valid point:”
Thank you, Pericles; I am not used to reading such a statement of agreement these days.
“…doctors are supposed to save lives; but that’s not the whole of their mission.”
True. Their real mission, generally, is to earn a living; a jolly good one, by normal standards.
I consider that in the case in question, the woman was seriously disturbed enough to warrant medical intervention against her will. There seems to be a myth about ‘quality’ of life; that we were born to have a great time and never suffer any misfortune. I think this is a dangerous view, which can lead to such wrong, in my opinion, decisions.
Many people feel they are hard done by and turn to drink or drugs or crime or go from one relationship to the next, looking for that Utopia they seem to have been led to believe that they have been born into.
- Pericles Xanthippou
April 27, 2016 at 9:22 pm -
“Their real mission, generally, is to earn a living; …”
Yes, Stewart, I’m sorry to say your rather cynical comment is right. The idea of medicine’s being a vocation is now deep in the past.
As a child of around ten years, I myself aspired to being a surgeon. At school I had read a book — a text book, whether in French or English I cannot recall — about an ophthalmic surgeon in the Belgian Congo and the extraordinary amount of good he had wrought by the treatment, mainly in children, of cataracts.
A vocation has, I’m afraid, turned in to a mercantile enterprise. Schade!
ΠΞ
- Major Bonkers
April 28, 2016 at 12:04 pm -
Presumably Albert Schweitzer, Pericles?
There is a vast article on the man in Wikipedia – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Schweitzer
He doesn’t seem to have been one of our present generation of doctors who hide their greed behind claims of ‘patient safety’.
Thank you all for your comments. I have now read the judgment and, because it is anonymised, it is rather difficult to form an opinion of the original patient. However, it does seem that she was a rather a monster of selfishness, with three husbands and, presumably, a large number of lovers as well. Despite her childrens’ wishes – one of whom is still a teenager, and I suspect suffering from depression and who begged her mother not to allow herself to die; something that ‘understandably had an appalling impact on A’s emotional and psychological wellbeing.’ (item 20(iii) of the judgment)
‘If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?’ (Luke 11, v. 11)
Despite the apparently rather extraordinarily self-centred way in which C chose to live and end her life, it is noticeable that she was still very much loved by her own daughters, who stayed with her in the hospice, sleeping on camp beds, until she died (item 15). And so, despite the selfishness and casual cruelty displayed by C, she was loved and died in the love of her family. Even this miserable story has an uplifting element within it.
- Pericles Xanthippou
April 29, 2016 at 8:28 pm -
Agreed, Major.
Don’t think the surgeon was Schweitzer but confess to ignorance of his life in detail.
ΠΞ
- Pericles Xanthippou
- Major Bonkers
- Pericles Xanthippou
- Stewart Cowan
- Pericles Xanthippou
- Stewart Cowan
- Ho Hum
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