Trumps, Tramps, and Trims, and Peeping at Tom's.
Trumps. What Donald Trump actually said:
“I like Mexico, I love the Mexican people, I do business with Mexico,” he said. “But you have people coming through the border who are from all over and they’re bad, they’re really bad … We have people coming in and I’m not just talking Mexicans, who are killers, they’re rapists, they are people we don’t want in this country.”
within hours, social media and the main stream media was awash with outrage claiming that Trump had said ‘all Mexicans are rapists’. He didn’t.
Then he followed this up by saying that:
“I supported him for president, I raised a million dollars for him, that’s a lot of money, I supported him, he lost, he let us down. But you know, he lost, so I’ve never liked him as much after that, because I don’t like losers… He’s not a war hero…. He’s a war hero because he was captured.
Now the definition of a Hero is a person of courage. I agree with Trump on this one – John McCain is a rightly applauded veteran, but to be courageous is to have a choice and decide to take the tougher option. To be courageous is to volunteer for military service in the first place, as opposed to being drafted. To be courageous is to volunteer for duty in the bomb disposal squad when you could have done potato peeling duties far behind the front line. Gary Powers was courageous when he signed up to fly state of the art planes – he wasn’t courageous for getting shot down, he wasn’t courageous for surviving two years in a Russian prison – he had no choice in those events. Yet those are the events that Hollywood and the US propaganda machine laud him as a ‘Hero’ for.
Can you be a Hero when you have no choice in the matter? I don’t think so.
——————ooo——————
Tramps? Ashley Madison, the ‘discrete dating site for married couples’. Where to start?
Allegedly 37 million people in the world have declared themselves to be married but open to having an affair, if the figures given for registration on this site are to be believed. Apparently 20%, one in five, of the good citizens of Ottawa. which is the site’s home base, are signed up to the ‘service’. Reuters is reporting that the most common post code registered in Ottawa is that of the main Parliament building…
Is there any evidence that the people registered on this site are married? Or is it just another on-line dating service getting world wide publicity? Not so very long ago the BBC were happily publicising the Singlemuslim.com site which boasted a million members in the UK. Any evidence that none of the people using that site were already married? No, I didn’t think so.
Then there is Muslimatrimony.com which allows you to search for partners not only by sect, but by the particular doctrine of Islam that they follow – as opposed to Ashley Madison which allows you to search by those who subscribe to the particular sexual practice which you enjoy/endure. Masochists and Sadists can meet up and live happily for ever after…
Now one of the moral guardians which inhabits the lower levels of the Internet has hacked into the site and is apparently blackmailing the company/the individual subscribers with exposing them as ‘dirty scum’.
In the curious world of the Internet social justice keyboard warriors, selecting your life partner by racial profiling is perfectly acceptable, selecting your life partner by sexual profiling is not.
——————ooo——————
Trims? The ongoing saga of ‘Female Genital Mutilation’.
Reports that at least 50 girls were taken from the UK to Somalia for female genital mutilation are being investigated by Scotland Yard.
Baroness Tonge was on a flight to Ethiopia at what is apparently ‘the start of the cutting season’ and decided that seeing so many women and girls on one flight was evidence that they were being taken to Somalia for the purposes of FGM. The Police have now committed themselves to interviewing those teenage girls on their return from holiday and asking them whether they still have their clitoris or not…
It is said that FGM is wrong because these are children who have no say in whether they are mutilated or not. That the procedure can result in horrific bleeding and infection since it is not always carried out in clinical conditions. I agree.
It is also said that in some Arab countries the practice is defended as being ‘part of their custom’ and something that has been done for hundreds of years. This is the same argument that is used to justify those in the UK who can see no reason why they shouldn’t continue to take a pair of scissors to their male children:
Manchester Royal Children’s hospital reports that it treats around three cases of bleeding circumcisions every month. In 2009 alone, in one hospital in Birmingham, 105 boys were treated at A&E for complications after circumcisions. One per month had life-threatening injuries. In June, a letter to the newsletter of the British Association for Community Child Health reported on some of the injuries caused by unlicensed circumcision practitioners in the Bristol area. They included a fractured skull caused by a baby falling off a kitchen table during a home circumcision.
I can imagine the outcry if a plane load of returning ex-pat oil workers landing in Addis Ababa were lined up to be interviewed as to whether they still had their foreskin or not – accompanied by world wide publicity and condemnation of the British practice of MGM.
——————ooo——————
Tom’s? I have to address the ‘Tom O’Carroll’ saga. Overnight, my inbox has filled up with some pretty vile e-mails demanding I make my views on Tom O’Carroll clear. One even demands that I ban him from this site. I have no intention of doing so. I only ban people who repeatedly plant libel on the site or use foul language and make unwarranted claims about other posters which destroys the open debate we all enjoy so much here.
Paedophilia is wrong. Paedophilia refers to someone who has a sexual interest in pre-pubescent children, so typically those under the ages of 11 or 12. I absolutely agree that engaging with sex in children that young can cause lasting harm. I don’t condone the practice in any form. Because I don’t condone it, I am interested in what can be done to protect children from such harm. That means learning how it comes about, what are the facts, what can be done to make sure that those who have such interests are helped to protect children?
It doesn’t mean shutting my ears to those who understand paedophilia – and Tom O’Carroll has spent many years writing about the subject, studying it, and learning about it. No, I don’t agree with everything he says, as I don’t agree with everything a lot of people say about a lot of subjects.
However, he does talk a lot of sense about some issues. One of the things I did when I first listened to the recent Australian ’60 minutes’ broadcast, was to go to Tom’s site and read the full transcript of the whole interview. He had made a recording of the interview. It made for a very different impression of Tom’s views than the excerpts that were taken out in typical tabloid fashion by the Australian programme. No surprise there.
One of the things I totally agree with Tom about was the current fashion for claiming that finding a fifteen year old girl sexually attractive makes you a paedophile. It doesn’t medically – but acting on that attraction certainly does legally – that is the law, and I abide by the law.
If having sex at 15 was capable of ruining you for life, turning you into a drug addict, alcoholic, shoplifter, insert problems of choice, then the entire French female nation would be traumatised for life and deserving of ‘compo’. Ditto Spanish womanhood. It is obvious nonsense, and I applaud Tom’s courage (for he does have a choice!) in continuing to point this out. Equally for continuing to point out that those under the age of 16 are perfectly capable of enjoying sexual activity. Children as young as four or five can engage in masturbation.
I profoundly disagree with Tom as to whether this means that the law should be changed, or those of tender years should be given legal permission to engage in such sexual activity.
Apparently, for such is the tone of the various red hot e-mails I have received, I should now denounce Tom as a paedophile, along with Rolf Harris, Jonathan King, ban them from my blog and hound them across the internet. That is not going to happen. For three reasons.
1) I believe in listening to both sides of an argument. You learn nothing by living in an echo chamber. Besides, people are more than just a conviction. Their sexuality is just one part of their personality and being happily married I find it quite easy to engage with a large number of people of both sexes without engaging with their sexuality, thank you.
2) No matter how heinous the crime, you are entitled to be judged on the facts and defended fairly by outlining both the facts in favour of your guilt and those that disprove it. Where there are facts ignored by the main stream media that throw doubt on accusations, even convictions, I shall continue to publish them. I’m not interested in a mud-slinging contest nor mob rule.
3) No matter how heinous the crime, where you have been judged, sentenced and have served your time, as in the case of Jonathan King, society at large, and certainly I, have lost the right to impose further punishment.
I find it offensive that ‘internet figures’ for want of a better phrase, would seek to silence certain voices on the grounds that their public trial has revealed facts so heinous they no longer have the right to speak or be treated with any civility – and yet we know nothing of those who sit in internet judgement. I’m particularly mindful of the recent northern Ireland case of a man who spent his days ‘exposing paedophiles’ and publicising their addresses, who when taken to task turned out to be a sex offender himself.
So – you are wasting your time e-mailing me, or trying to drag me into ‘Twitter wars’ – I have better things to do with my time, and nothing is going to change on this blog.
- Ho Hum
July 22, 2015 at 10:25 am -
Are you really, really, sure that you meant to write that about McCain?
- Joe Public
July 22, 2015 at 10:37 am -
The key is “To be courageous is to volunteer for military service in the first place, as opposed to being drafted.” Or even dodge being drafted.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/celebrity/deferments-helped-trump-dodge-vietnam
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 10:56 am -
“You think I am brave because I carry a gun? Well, your fathers are much braver because they carry responsibility, for you, your brothers, your sisters, and your mothers. And this responsibility is like a big rock that weighs a ton! It bends and it twists them until finally it buries them under the ground. And there’s nobody says they have to do this. They do it because they love you, and because they want to. I have never had this kind of courage. Running a farm, working like a mule every day with no guarantee anything will ever come of it. This is bravery!”
Charles Bronson as Bernardo O’Reilly in The Magnificent 7.- Hubert Rawlinson
July 22, 2015 at 11:37 am -
“Never mind that shit… Here comes Mongo!!!”
David Huddleston as Olson Johnson in Blazing Saddles.
- Hubert Rawlinson
- Moor Larkin
- Ho Hum
July 22, 2015 at 2:53 pm -
I didn’t want to pitch straight in, just in case, but I guess you must be. But I do find myself left feeling just a bit uncomfortable with the notion that Allied and other POWs, such as those who endured and survived, or even died, the Far Eastern regimes’ worst efforts in providing these accommodations, might not be men of courage, merely because they had landed up in such through no choice of their own.
Unless, of course, I have entirely misunderstood what you have written, and/or what was meant by it
- windsock
July 22, 2015 at 3:28 pm -
McCain is a hero for these reasons:
McCain experienced episodes of torture, and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. His war wounds left him with lifelong physical limitations.
i.e. he let other captured Americans be released ahead of himself.
He was interrogated for four days, losing consciousness as his captors tried to beat information out of him. But he refused to talk.
McCain was refusing to mention his dad for fear of handing valuable intelligence to the enemy.
McCain might have died from his injuries had the North Vietnamese not found out on their own that his father was an admiral. Instead, they moved him to a hospital and performed several botched operations on him. They sliced his knee ligaments by accident and couldn’t manage to set his bones.
He saw several fellow prisoners beaten to death, yet McCain refused to sign the confession that would have granted him a speedy release (and a publicity coup to the North Vietnamese).
McCain refused to meet with most visitors for fear of being used as a puppet by the North Vietnamese.
As McCain remained in solitary confinement, tapping messages on the filthy walls to his fellow POWs in Morse code, Trump was out partying at Studio 54.Anna, you are wrong on this.
And let’s look at Dona;d Trump’s war activity, hmm? Oh, that’s right, he was in USA the whole time.
- windsock
July 22, 2015 at 3:29 pm -
Sorry about the multiple links – not intended.
- missred
July 22, 2015 at 7:02 pm -
I am not here to defend Trump and what he said about McCain. I just quickly want to point out that Studio 54 did not come into existence until 1977. McCain was already home. So that puts the rest of the article into question, in my humble opinion.
- windsock
- Joe Public
- Chris
July 22, 2015 at 10:31 am -
Bravo – I noticed the nastiness swirling on Twitter last night, mainly from Little Lord Fauntleroy’s corner. It came as no surprise to learn that his strange “media platform” appeared in 2012. One would have thought that, what with the Ben Fellows trial and Exaro’s adventures in Australian Television, that he’d have better things to do on Twitter this week than single you out for attack.
I do so despise those who use Twitter this way – ditto those flailing libellous buffoons who use it to tell their minions there are ‘reds under the bed’ with increasing desperation. http://retardedkingdom.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/twitter.html - Hadleigh Fan
July 22, 2015 at 10:32 am -
Heroics
I watched a TV program on Sky the other day that was called ‘The day after Trinity’ which featured a number of the people who worked on the first Atomic Bomb. A number of them held left-wing views, and they decried the use of atomic weapons on Japanese cities. Fair enough, you might say. At the time, they were all of military service age, and presumably had enjoyed home lives with their wives and families throughout the war. Not one felt that their conviction was strong enough to give up the job and join the US Marines, for whom the hope of a day shortening the war would have been a blessed release. My own father, having just returned to the UK from walking across France, the Low Countries and into Germany was training for the Empire’s contribution to the attack on Japan. Ordinary bloke, but to me, worth the entirety of Japan and the Japanese.
Oddly enough, the historical revisionists often have a field day over Allied atrocities, such as Dresden. At the time, the Hun was bombarding cities in Britain with a combination of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. The war was definitely not over at that time.
- Fat Steve
July 22, 2015 at 10:35 am -
I only ban people who …….. make unwarranted claims about other posters which destroys the open debate we all enjoy so much here.
Come Come Anna, its rather unlike you to be self righteous about the rules for posting on this forum . Its your site and you run it as you wish and that is how it should be but evidence suggests there are no cogent and comprehensive rules on posting ……still perhaps you think it was warranted for one of your frequent posters to call me a wanker …….just because I took the p*ss out of him for rather limited grasp of literature.
But Anna so long as you remain well frankly I don’t give a damn whatever rules you live by- The Blocked Dwarf
July 22, 2015 at 11:53 am -
Fat Steve, You have been missed. Sorely.
- Fat Steve
July 22, 2015 at 12:04 pm -
Hi Blocked Dwarf ….gotta say I missed your company as well……but…but…but…..you may recollect our interchange about turkish tobacco and as a result I took an interest in finding some …..yep and you are famous on the leaf tobacco sites I found out ….. I sense we are both eternal fifth formers at heart …..gosh who would want to grow up and become a man like moor larkin (less larkin more barkin) …..Christ I might end up obsessing about the Prisoner
- Fat Steve
- John Galt
July 22, 2015 at 1:11 pm -
still perhaps you think it was warranted for one of your frequent posters to call me a wanker
Which was written in humour in reference to your explicit statement about “Mother palm and her five daughters” which included a smiley-face to clearly indicate it was humorous rather than a deliberate insult.
https://annaraccoon.com/2015/01/30/when-yes-means-no/#comment-73203
If that is a problem for you then maybe the rough-and-tumble of the internet is not for you.
- windsock
July 22, 2015 at 3:35 pm -
Hi Steve – we went mano-a-mano once, but it’s good to see you back.
- Fat Steve
July 22, 2015 at 4:32 pm -
Remember it well windsock and with affection but I am only in for a flying pint
- Fat Steve
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 10:39 am -
Anyone regularly reading “Anna Raccoon” would be only too aware that it is a Blog that can always be depended upon to separate the men from the boys.
- Samuel Zehdenick
July 22, 2015 at 10:43 am -
It is nice to hear a sane voice once in a while.
- Mrs Grimble
July 22, 2015 at 11:20 am -
I’m not sure why being called a ‘wanker’ should offend. After all, there can’t be that many who haven’t enjoyed the occasional bit of self-pleasuring? And, personally, I can take being called a ‘bitch’, since I do get quite bitchy at times (especially when my arthritis has been playing silly buggers all night). But being libelled – called a ‘peadophile supporter’, ‘evil’ and so on – I take strong offence to that. Completely agree with having open debate on any forum – so long as it stays reasonably polite. I certainly don’t agree with every opinion expressed here, but the arguments almost always stay good-humoured and civilised.
As to the Ashley Madison affair, there seems to more to it than meets the eye. According to this article they make a large amount of their money from charging customers for deleting their accounts – and then keep the credit card details!
“Full Delete netted ALM [Avid Life Media, the parent company] $1.7mm in revenue in 2014. It’s also a complete lie. Users almost always pay with credit card; their purchase details are not removed as promised, and include real name and address, which is of course the most important information the users want removed.”- Fat Steve
July 22, 2015 at 12:17 pm -
@Mrs Grimble…..one does not call a woman a bitch or a man a wanker if one is taught reasonable manners, inclined to think before one is a teenager that it is beneath one to be ill mannered and one has adequate skill with words to put them down with elegance and wit (rather than abuse) if they get uppity ……dare I suggest you never get bitchy but on occasion may perhaps become somewhat fraught ????
- Mrs Grimble
July 22, 2015 at 2:09 pm -
Hi Fat Steve – I *was* being tongue-in-cheek! And yes, I do get ‘fraught’ on occasion – and it’s a much nicer word, will try to use it more.
- Alex
July 22, 2015 at 3:36 pm -
I hate it when people refer to me as an “old bastard”. I always say “hey, less of the old if you please”.
- Mrs Grimble
- Fat Steve
- Enarhem
July 22, 2015 at 11:35 am -
Ottawa not Ottowa
- Alex
July 22, 2015 at 3:37 pm -
John Ottaway.
- Alex
- Tom O’Carroll
July 22, 2015 at 12:10 pm -
Well said, Anna!
Very brave, especially at a time of life when you could surely do without all the hassle.
Not yet had time to read your stuff about Trump, etc, which I’m sure is VG, so I’m just referring quickly to your tailpiece – not that I’m being personal about your raccoon-ness!
You might be interested to know that I was emailed yesterday by “Alexander Baron”, or someone purporting to be of that name (one of your regular contributors, I believe), who took it upon himself to say I should not write to your site. Here is the text, in full:
FROM ALEXANDER BARON TO ME:
After your performance on that Australian TV programme you should desist posting to the Anna Raccoon blogspot, that is if you have a shred of decency in that diseased brain of yours.
Cameron-Blackey is fighting a just cause, one that doesn’t need tainting by lowlife who want to legalise sex with 10 year olds. As I’m sure you realise, she is not long for this world, and she deserves better than to have people like you cluttering up her epitaph.
TheDarkMan will always correct any meaningful error of fact.
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 12:46 pm -
He has comments boxes available.
http://www.thelatestnews.com/westminster-paedophile-ring-fantasies-reach-australia/- The Blocked Dwarf
July 22, 2015 at 4:41 pm -
I actually took 5 minutes off from making silly noises at my adorable Granddaughter2 to read that and found that making silly faces for Granddaughter’s endearingly crossed puppy eyes was the better use of my time. It’s a blog where apparently no one is interested enough in AB’s opinions to comment-compare his comment sections with those of our own Landlady’s or ToC’s ….despite neither the Landlady nor ToC feeling the need to proclaim themselves ‘Editor In Chief’ .
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 5:05 pm -
At least he has boxes. I came across a mad-as-a-box-of-frogs Blogger site a while back and found I could only make a comment if I joined their “club”. What was it the good lady said about echo-chambers? One can only build it and hope they will come. There’s a lot of competition out there to be fair.
- Moor Larkin
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Moor Larkin
- Carol42
July 22, 2015 at 3:07 pm -
I have never liked John McCain but I understand he could have been released but refused to go unless the other prisoners were released too. Maybe that qualifies him for hero status?
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 4:18 pm -
re. Botched circumcisions.
Does the NHS keep track of circumcision by religion? Whenever FGM is raised folk always start banging on about the Jews and male circumcision. It was only after following one such debate that it dawned on me that MGM is a male Muslim thang too; I had never realised. So then I got to wondering if all the stats about the poor boys were actually coming from the same ethnic group and the Jews were just a red herring insofar as the inadvertent butchery accidents were concerned.- Mudplugger
July 22, 2015 at 4:28 pm -
But it’s also a cultural thing – the majority of American men are circumcised, regardless of their religion – there does not seem to be any outcry there about inadvertent butchery accidents, even on that vast scale, although theirs are all conducted by professional medics with surgical cleanliness, not by the local imam with a rusty Stanley knife.
- Mudplugger
July 22, 2015 at 7:59 pm -
Just to clarify, when I wrote the phrase “on that vast scale” I was referring to the number of such operations nationally, not the dimensions of the individual organs themselves. Wouldn’t want our American cousins thinking they had bragging-rights in that area too.
- Mudplugger
- Mudplugger
- Timbo
July 22, 2015 at 5:29 pm -
“with a rusty Stanley knife…” You were lucky!
- Major Bonkers
July 22, 2015 at 7:16 pm -
A propos, I have been waiting to post a link to this bizarre story:
I am afraid that I don’t really know what to make of it.
- Ho Hum
July 22, 2015 at 7:25 pm -
It’s quite simple, really. Donald forgot to wear his toupée that day
- Ho Hum
- hector
July 22, 2015 at 7:57 pm -
- suffolkgirl
July 22, 2015 at 8:48 pm -
After reading Anna’s blog this morning I did a bit of googling and ended up on a veterans blog where the stories about the Tokyo rose broadcasts and the Forestal tragedy were bandied around with much hatred of McCain. It seemed to be a classic conspiracy vicious circle. Thus:
– McCain made pro Communist broadcasts during the Vietnam war!
– Then how come no one has a record of them?
– Because McCain’s evil admiral dad stole them!
– McCain caused the Forrestal deaths with his negligence, vanity etc
– How come? I thought it was the planes behind him which did the shooting?
– Yes, but it’s still all his fault somehow. And the truth has been hidden by his evil admiral dad!
Of course it may all be true but it seemed to be an entirely evidence free zone.
The point about Palin is interesting as Trump seems to me to be Sarah’s long lost (political) brother. But without the sex appeal and neat specs.–
- Ho Hum
July 22, 2015 at 9:14 pm -
..in a typically OTT dramatised MSM presentation, coupled with an absolutely horrible cutting room floor job by the clip editors, this is broadly what happened insofar as McCain played a role in the Forrestal saga. The whole thing can be seen in other longer films, without the dramatics or individuals’ identification
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdaD9I5QN6c
No prizes practicable, I’m afraid, but a virtual Scotch to whoever can spot at least 4 errors in this dramatised programme and its graphics, insofar as the presentation of the aircraft involved is concerned. Any nerds out there?
- Ho Hum
July 22, 2015 at 9:16 pm -
LOL I’m getting old… That should have started with
‘You have to take the edit and graphics with a pinch of salt, but…’
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 9:54 pm -
Never even known about any of this before now, taking little interest in US politics, but interesting that the key to the modern conspiracy theory may lie in an archive news report from 1967. The kiddy-flap here is powered in many ways by archive newspapers and the feverish “discoveries” about the past by the investigators. (I even do it myself… ). It struck me the other day that if you have an infinite number of dots on a sheet of paper, you can pretty much draw anything you like and still join them thar dots.
“A special note is in order here. We have seen some baseless claims that McCain was somehow responsible for the Forrestal disaster. One incorrect but widely quoted theory has him triggering the Zuni missile with the exhaust of his own plane by “wet-starting” – deliberately dumping fuel into the afterburner before starting in order to shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. This is a preposterous notion… This bogus theory appears to have gotten its start from a report by New York Times reporter R. W. Apple. Jr, who reported on July 31, 1967… ”
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/- Ho Hum
July 22, 2015 at 11:08 pm -
Thanks. Very interesting, and much more detailed
Just shows how easily, though, doesn’t it, that those who want to be had, are had?
- Ho Hum
- Moor Larkin
- Ho Hum
- Ho Hum
- suffolkgirl
- Margaret Jervis
July 22, 2015 at 9:56 pm -
The most incendiary thread of this has been lost – the O’Carroll question – or the apologia for paedophilia.
Yes, I agree that Anna should allow commentary and that it is important to understand what arguments are being put forward on what basis.
Having listened to his interview it seems that
1) he supports what he terms ‘consensual erotic engagement’ with adults and children, over 10.
2) Peter Righton and possible Charles Nappier were not ‘paedophiles’ in his opinion but hebophiles ie interested sexually in 11-16 year olds, not ‘children’ per se.
3) the point about the Righton and Nappierites is that they could engage with alienated boys with gay inclinations and lead them through a quagmire to become stable adults. Likewise if they were to decide to be heterosexual, it was equally successful in nurturing terms.
4) there is no mention of similar post- pubescent girls and what they might benefit (or otherwise) from erotic sexual attention from adults( one suspects that the verdict would not be quite so positive and seen more in exploitative terms). Does O’Carroll have views on the ‘grooming’ scandals? Or is this out of his remit – in which case – according to his own diktat, the activities of Righton and Nappier should be accordingly.
Why does he feel inclined to comment and say they are ‘friends’? Would they agree -given his views on pre-pubescent sexual/erotic activity?
5)The ‘hebophile information exchange’ does not appear to exist, but this aspect of gay induction appears to have been wiped out of official ‘gay history’. That’s for the gay historians to address.
6)Nevertheless,O’Carroll has lumped himself with the ‘paraphiliacs’ and the fetishists – the ‘pervs’- and while I agree that child killers and sadists cannot be properly termed ‘paedophiles’, there is no doubt in my mind that adults having an erotic/sexual interest in children are, if they exhibit it, creeps of the first order. Why? Because there is a gross mismatch between adult sexual desire and the immanent world of children. And to cross that barrier is both frightening and wrong.Yes I accept that children can ‘masturbate’ in terms of childish physical pleasure seeking – it has to be said though that most parents tend to discourage by distraction and where it becomes obsessional become rightly concerned (not necessarily because of ‘abuse’ but maybe innate disturbed ‘tendencies’)
Children who start to victimise other children in sexual or physical ways over and above play ‘naughtiness’ also, rightly, become a subject of concern.
Let’s not pussyfoot around this. Sex is a powerful impulse that develops in most people by stages on a learning curve. We don’t want our children to be prematurely fixated on sex for good reason. On the other hand it is true that its cocommitant – emotional intimacy – can be a
an important stage in maturation and in some teens the two go together.For the record Anna – if ‘Bob Chewton’ is the paranoid blog handle ‘ bobchewie’ may I tell him and others that contrary to his claims I’ve come across on the internet
1) I was not ‘a friend of Peter Righton, I never met him, spoke to him or otherwise had any communication with him eg ‘we know that…’.
2) whatever ‘my secret’ is that he mentions in libellous innuendo elsewehere, it’s not this. Maybe he’d like to elaborate?
3) What are his sources for his misinformation?- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 10:13 pm -
* this aspect of gay induction appears to have been wiped out of official ‘gay history’ *
Aint that the truth.
“A senior social work lady from 1993 sums up the fiasco of how Righton hid in plain sight of the UK social services Establishment for a quarter century. She is refreshingly honest and direct about her mistakes.
I feel that I should have made the connections earlier but the difficulty is that first of all someone presents themselves in the way that Peter presented himself, secondly he took enormous trouble… to keep his private life separate from his professional life and thirdly, one would have hesitated to extend ideas beyond the fact that he was a homosexual into other fields, but in many respects he must be seen as a conman. He certainly conned a wide range of people in the social work world who I’m sure feel as upset about it as I do.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/keep-right-on-to-end-of-road.htmlShe could just as easily have been describing the make-believe Jimmy Savile in 2012.
- Bandini
July 23, 2015 at 2:50 pm -
Hello Margaret.
The comical ‘bobchewie’ was banging on about your “little secret” here:
https://ianpace.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/leon-brittan-a-guest-post-by-tim-tate-on-the-investigations-into-and-evidence-relating-to-him/comment-page-1/#comment-6919
I think the source of his misinformation is his own paranoia, unhelpfully stirred-up by shameless journalists & ‘campaigners’ who use these unfortunates as projectile-stuffing in a mis-firing & wildly inaccurate paedo-bluderbuss.Regarding O’Carroll, I watched the Australian ’60 Minutes’ programme before listening to his own recording of the interview and then followed the advice given in same & tracked-down the BBC’s ‘Inside Story’ film about Peter Righton (in which Charles Napier featured heavily). I’d never seen it before, and was surprised that O’Carroll was recommending it to his interviewer as evidence of Righton’s & Napier’s, er, benevolent character; my conclusions were quite different!
I also found his insistence that they – Righton & Napier, his friends – could not have been capable of the sadistic violence that Exaro’s “Darren” levels against them as unconvincing, but not because I believe the tale… I just don’t think we can ever truly know what even our nearest & dearest are getting up to, let alone fellow enthusiasts in necessarily secretive & illegal acts.
(I’d draw a parallel here with the really quite offensive smears against the families of those accused of serious crimes, such as Janner, Brittan and the like. Everyone of us, I’d imagine, knows (or knows of) someone whose spouse/partner has been determinedly deceived by the person they thought they knew best in the world. Apparently, though, when these pecadillos go further than mere “affairs” and touch on child abuse, rape, torture & murder – allegedly! – the sinner in question must sit down with his whole family & circle of friends and confesses all & together they all make some sort of mad pact of silence – ridiculous!)
I came away with the sensation that anything remotely positive would be seized upon as ‘evidence’ of the innocuous nature of the ‘relationship’ (eg. some of Righton’s ex-pupils’ asking him to be god-parent to their own children) while anything negative is dismissed as the whining of crybabies. Ironic, really, given their interest in the immature…
One ‘Inside Story’ talking-head made it clear that Righton had such a powerful & persuasive personality that anyone he fixed his attention on would be likely to yield. As a teenaged boy I dreamt of being inducted into the ways of the world by an older woman, and I’m sure that occasionally such things can happen without damage being done… occasionally. I’m minded of the gifted young genius who gains a University place at the age of 13 or something – er, not that this ever seems to work out too well! But this bears scant relationship to that, so far as I can see. I’m not sure if it is astonishing self-delusion or breathtaking callousness or a mixture of the two. Either way, “creeps of the first order” about sums it up, for those that cross the line.
- margaret jervis
July 23, 2015 at 6:02 pm -
Hello Bandini!
Yes, while roaming around old message boards I saw your name linked to the world of Chewie whereby he seemed intent in attributing your posts to ‘contact’ with me – which you, correctly, denied. And for the benefit of doubt I can can confirm I have never before addressed you (or you me) in any manner or form of communication whatsover.Like you I don’t know what Righton Did, or than that to which he admitted (though O’Carroll would appear to have inflated these claims himself, posthumously). I hadn’t read anything by him either until today when I browsed the archives collected by Ian Pace, to whom we should be grateful in this respect. https://ianpace.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/peter-rightons-articles-for-social-work-today/
There’s one very telling letter in critical response to a notorious article Righton wrote condoning sex between adolescents in care and care workers in 1977 by an A Whitakker of Bodmin:
“…the spontaneous display of the affections which used to be a part of everyday relationships between young people and older ones has in fact been inhibited by the sex cult of our day and the overthrow of restraints and the result has been an entirely new range of limitations”
ie rather than lending licence to ‘abuse’ by care workers, the permissive views of Righton and society at large, inhibited warmth for fear of it being viewed as ‘sexual’.Given the presumption that sexual abuse was ‘rife’ in children’s homes in the 70s, this observation makes interesting reading, for if true, it would seem that not only was that not the case, but also that there was a deprivation of warmth at that time which had previously existed, which may throw a fresh light on latter-day complainants and the problems they suffered in adult life.
It also makes one wonder about what kind of spontaneous warmth might exist in today’s care establishments or foster homes – given the paranoia about sexual abuse – and how those children and young people will fare in the future.
The ‘Inside Story’ was produced at the time of the New Barns investigation which attempted to link Righton, his partner Alston and others in an international ring – this being part of the third Hereford and Worcester children’s homes trawls over a number of years. It was joint with the NSPCC. The eventual trial, implicating only teachers, collapsed. I presumed at the time the doc was an attempt at a begging bowl operation for allegations against Righton so as to create the ‘ring/network’ linking to the school/children’s homes. This was part of the Mike Hames project which has now been resurrected aided by journalists such as Eileen Fairweather.
It would seem that at that time nothing of substance was elicited re Righton – but memories are constantly being refreshed, or discovered and trials related to the spectre of Righton continue.
I also hold O’Carroll and his ilk party responsible for inflating the ‘paedophile fear threat’ by their attempts to ubiquitise the propensity in order to ‘normalise’ it. Predictably this is seized upon by the ‘industry’ to exaggerate fears and hike up the therapy industry. It’s a fact that many paedophiles, far from being the lofty intellectualisers beloved of PIE, are of low intelligence and moral reasoning – they used to be known as ‘revolving door’ offenders repeatedly being prosecuted for minor offences that they pleaded guilty to – and yes, many of these were a threat to children in their own families, often under the noses of the social services – the Nottingham Broxtowe case was one such family. But these people, fare from constituting sophisticated ‘rings’ could not organise a piss-up in the proverbial brewery. They still exist, but cases rarely attract more than passing media attention
- Bandini
July 25, 2015 at 8:58 pm -
Thanks for the reply, Margaret.
The point about spontaneous displays of affection & deprivation of warmth – especially in ‘establishments’ but I’d imagine also in fostering environments – is really interesting. It’s often been pointed out on this site that you’d have to be mad to choose to work in such a setting, given the risk of being wrongly-labelled an abuser of one sort or another. That those who might most benefit from a display of human-kindness are going to grow up without experiencing a hug is pretty tragic, as who would dare to risk such an act? And deprived of any such affection, it’s not hard to imagine the child accepting it from someone with ‘ulterior motives’.I’ve no personal experience of any of this, and am watching from afar here in Spain. A good friend of my girlfriend’s is a social-worker (or equivalent) here, and does indeed work with ‘vulnerable children’. I’ve wanted to pick her brains on a couple of occasions, as I’m fairly sure this level of paranoia hasn’t arrived to these shores yet, but have always held back from doing so as she obviously takes her work home with her & it obviously gets to her… I’m going to contradict myself (re: never really knowing someone) as I’d bet my life that she is a saint, but even saints need time off from worrying about their work so I’ll leave her in peace unless it ever comes up in conversation.
Ian Pace does, indeed, collate & produce some good stuff, but does seem to go a bit overboard. I know his particular area is music, and read his proposals for establishing the norms of physical contact between student & teacher. When it popped into my inbox I was astonished – it smacked of all that ‘explicit consent’ stuff washing over from the States. I was going to comment but thought “what’s the point?”, and again I have no real insight into that world, but just can’t imagine it being taken seriously HERE, in a country more known for a relaxed attitude to physical contact between people.
(It’s been quite hard for me, this aspect of Spanish culture, as I am, by nature, fairly uptight and come from a not-particularly demonstrative family from a country famed for being frigid… generalisations, I know, but here I find myself in bear-hugs with unknowns, pats, rubs, strokes & cuddles being the norm rather than the exception. It’s not always easy pretending to have let my guard down!)
I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about non-verbal communication & how it can influence us, and a great little example was given (which may be an exagerration, but I like it anyway): if we want to borrow money from someone our chances of obtaining it are doubled by the simple placing of our hand on the upper-arm of the ‘victim’ at the moment of broaching the subject. I would imagine such ‘tricks’ could be useful when dealing with unhappy, possibly damaged youngsters in a difficult setting, but hysteria will lead to a cry of “Get yer hands off me, you paedo!” or, more likely, a 20-years-after-the-fact communication from a P.I. vulture: “Were you a resident of Hell House? Were you ever physically touched in any way whatsoever? If so, a cash prize could be yours!”The only solution I can see is a technological one, and it really wouldn’t be that difficult to implement: a round-the-clock recording of every second of a child-in-care’s life, stored away to be referred to should any future complaint be made. That or the care-worker/teacher doing the same. As an adult, I’d rather submit to this indignity than risk a problem later down the line, and it would also allow actions – such as being alone with a child – which at the moment must be terrifying (if they even ever take place, given the fear of being wrongly labelled).
God, what a depressing situation. I’m off back over to today’s article to listen to the jukebox again!
P.S. Watching ‘Inside Story’ I was amazed at how much of what is now surfacing is just old news… I was half expecting “Darren” to appear on screen. Likewise, with the ‘new’ revelations about a dead MP with a “penchant for boys” – as Edwina Currie published her diaries 13-years ago: “It scares me, as all the press know…” So they “knew” 25-years ago, they knew again 13-years ago, but now they’ve decided to make a big song & dance about it and tell us what fearless journos they are! Bah!
- Bandini
- margaret jervis
- suffolkgirl
July 23, 2015 at 5:39 pm -
I didn’t comment on this but for me it seems right that O’Carroll can post, and others can comment on his posts. I think personally that he has constructed an elaborate belief system to justify actions which at the bare minimum were highly exploitative, and I’ve largely learnt that from comments here.
That said, while acting on a sexual interest in children will almost always be damaging, surveillance of internet abuse seems to show that the interest itself is not just confined to a tiny group of creeps. Of course, it’s hard to know exactly what is being classed as ‘child porn’, nor how many people are led by too much porn surfing into ever deeper and darker places, and, of course actions can be normal, or at least quite widespread, and still wrong.
- Moor Larkin
July 23, 2015 at 5:58 pm -
* That said, while acting on a sexual interest in children will almost always be damaging, surveillance of internet abuse seems to show that the interest itself is not just confined to a tiny group of creeps. *
I thought the vast majority (90%? pick a stat?) was all in the family so none of this really makes sense. PIE was a bizarre offshoot of the gay liberation scene – it was all about pederasty. If everyone just put this to bed and moved on, perhaps we could climb out of this nightmare Freddy Krueger movie we’re all locked into.
Either that, or someone tell me that sexual child abuse is not almost an exclusively intra-famililial issue and show me the research.
And how much of it even involves children, as opposed to post-pubertal teenagers, as in the northern towns anyway.Most of the time everyone seems to be talking about different things in this “historical debate”, and legalese rules whereby a 16 year-old sends her naked pic to her boyfriend, he puts it on the web and suddenly because she’s under 18 it becomes child porn. Bloody ridiculous.
- Margaret Jervis
July 25, 2015 at 4:15 pm -
Bit belated, but if you negotiate your way through this NSPCC related research you will see that the ‘intrafamial’ model is not substantiated either. http://www.nspcc.org.uk/globalassets/documents/research-reports/child-abuse-neglect-uk-today-research-report.pdf
Totally agree that the ‘it’ is that which needs to be determined.
- Margaret Jervis
- Moor Larkin
- Moor Larkin
- Poptart
July 22, 2015 at 10:24 pm -
In my 20 years Army service I never heard the word ‘hero’ used to describe any individual. It is a term much misused by the western media.
‘BRIGADIER E D ”Birdie” Smith, who died on March 7, aged 74, was awarded an immediate DSO in Italy in 1944 when commanding a company of Gurkhas in the 2nd Battalion of the 7th Gurkha Rifles. In 1962, following a helicopter crash in the Borneo jungle, he had his right arm amputated with an Army clasp knife and no anaesthetic in an operation lasting an hour to free him from the wreckage. The helicopter was upside down and in imminent danger of catching fire. During this ordeal he was fully conscious but did not utter a word.’
What this does not mention is the Regimental Medical Officer (a Captain) performed the operation on the instructions of (then) Major Smith.
There is no word to describe the extraordinary actions of both men.
It is perhaps ironic that the perceived zenith of ‘hero’ comes nowhere near.
IMHO, of course.
- Moor Larkin
July 22, 2015 at 10:31 pm -
My dad was sniffy about “Help for Heroes”. I recall him harrumphing and muttering, They’re not heroes, they’re soldiers who did their duty.
- Moor Larkin
- Just passing
July 23, 2015 at 12:17 am -
I vaguely remember what Jonathan King went to jail for (there is quite a revealing article by Jon Ronson about the case). But I needed to look up what led to Tom O’Carroll doing time (creepy-pervy-kiddy-orientated enough to be both relevant and grounds for me not to take this “campaigner” seriously):-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/coventry_warwickshire/6196811.stm
- Moor Larkin
July 23, 2015 at 7:40 am -
I think Tom did time for images and obscene literature, but maybe he’ll speak for himself. Looks like we’ll all be joining him if the NSPCC have their way.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29470001I did a blog, touching on the Jonathan King/Jon Ronson thing.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/the-waltons.html
Mr. King even popped into my comments to put me straight on a couple of matters left hanging but I never heard from Mr. Ronson.
- Moor Larkin
- Jonathan King
July 23, 2015 at 11:53 am -
Mr King has a nasty habit of popping up all over the place despite the majority attempting to silence him. Jolly annoying isn’t it? Jon Ronson’s latest book is fantastic and well worth reading; however he was scuppered in his coverage of my case by a) the Surrey Police working on it (not, despite rumours to the contrary, including MWT) and b) his bosses at the liberal Guardian and Ch4 wanting him to be far less supportive and more damning. He also, now, says that although he didn’t believe the false accusers whose claims convicted me, he did believe a man he met whose claims were thrown out by the Judge and who later admitted he’d “exaggerated” and adapted dates to make a more profitable story. Writers need to obey the commercial strictures and moral agendas of their proprietors, don’t they?
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