Should Women be Trained to Kill Professionally?
Colonel Richard Kemp set the ladies aflutter by suggesting that they didn’t have the ‘natural killer instinct’ of men and thus shouldn’t be allowed to serve on the front line in direct combat roles.
I am not convinced that men have a ‘natural killer instinct’ – if they had, there would not be the need for ‘square bashing’ to ensure that they follow orders to rush forward and insert a bayonet into the guts of the man the other side of the road purely because they have been told to. Nor would they need to be taught precisely how hard to insert the bayonet, and how to twist it from side to side to ensure that brown skinned entrails are ‘eliminated’ in the pursuit of oil to keep our homes centrally-heated. Perhaps I have been lucky in the men I have known, even the ones I divorced, but they would have instinctively replied – ‘get a wood-burning stove’ – rather than have to disembowel a total stranger, or even a cockroach, to keep the home fires burning.
Since we live on an island, we don’t have the need to protect fluid borders from marauding tribes in the same way that other Europeans do. We habitually ‘cross the water’ in order to fight battles – far too frequently for my taste. Of course we still need a defence force, if only to protect ourselves from those who would also cross the water to fight their battles. We will always have a need for a few individuals who are trained in the unnatural art of professionally killing another human being simply because they have been told to.
I used to be good friends with the (then) Base psychiatrist at an American air base. He spent his working life trying to un-pickle the contretemps in the minds of men who were expected by day to be ruthless professionals who could drain the blood from a man’s jugular vein with one swipe of their knife, on a given order – and then go home to be berated by a typical American wife and demanding children, put down the dinner knife (quietly) and mildly respond ‘Yes, of course dearest, anything you say Dear” when provoked.
After five years, he gave up the unequal struggle and retired to the simpler task of teaching Florida ladies how to eat less if they wanted to lose weight…
Should we not be posing the question ‘why are we still obsessed with teaching men how to be professional killers’ rather than the current question which seems to be ‘if women want to disembowel foreign gentlemen, shouldn’t we be letting them’? I am quite alarmed that there exist any women who really want to contort their faces and rush forward with a bayonet, yelling blood curdling threats, in order to perform a colostomy without anaesthetic on another individual because a) they’ve been told to, and b) he’s wearing different clothes to them. If such women do exist, shouldn’t we be locking them up somewhere, rather than paying them to live out their fantasies?
Particularly since in the same breath we are told that women are such delicate creatures that Theresa May is to rush through legislation this week to ensure that men who subject them to ‘psychological abuse’ – not giving them sufficient reassurance to the age old question of ‘does my bum look big in this’? – are to be liable for a 14 year prison sentence.
Blimey! – and what does this delicate flower say when she meets a suicide bomber at the gates of Camp Bastion saying ‘Does my bomb look big in this’? To disembowel or disenfranchise – that is the question.
Feminists are in danger of becoming toxic schizophrenics (some would say, have already become so) unable to decide whether to be professional vulnerable victims, or professional venerable killers.
It is the same fate that has befallen ‘children’ – or teenagers as they used to be known before the term fell out of favour. On the one hand they are children until 18, who ‘should be able to’ chose an MP to run the country, but cannot ‘chose’ to send a naked selfie to their new found friend, and on the other hand – turn into a 12 year old systematically described as a ‘young man‘ by Sky news this morning, when they get shot for waving a fake gun at a police officer….
Let’s have a vote on women as professional ‘hand to hand’ killers…..
- Moor Larkin
November 24, 2014 at 9:41 am -
If women are to be trained to kill professionally what’s the betting they won’t get paid as much as the men.
- Robert the Biker
November 24, 2014 at 10:15 am -
“what’s the betting they won’t get paid as much as the men.”
Possibly, but the idea of them coming round in person to moan about it would give a new level of urgency to the complaint!
Seriously though Anna, I don’t quite know where you get this idea of soldiers as professional killers – and I say this as a man who still goes “Huey” when he hears a helicopter land or take off, after over 40 years! First you train them to be part of a unit rather than individuals, then how to shoot and hit the target, then, yes, you have to develop a bit of a killer instinct so that they will actually fire to hit an enemy rather than miss. Then, guess what, you spend at least twice that long on rules of engagement so that they don’t just lay waste to the general population; result, you end up with motivated but HIGHLY DISCIPLINED troops that you can actually let loose around a civilian population. People who are undisciplined nutbars are no use in an army, they are the kind of knobs who panic and you get My Lai, not the kind of men who will follow their leaders into fire, lose mates and still take the bastards at the top of the hill prisoner instead of just blowing the crap out of them – Goose Green.
Of course I can see the possible use of a woman with PMT and a machine gun, as Wellington said “I don’t know what they do to the enemy, but they terrify me!”
- Robert the Biker
- Ho Hum
November 24, 2014 at 10:04 am -
I’d rather they weren’t, but I’d be tempted to accede if I thought that the first death match in which the opportunity were to be exercised was billed as
Ms Brasier vs Mrs Dromey
Regardless of which lost, everyone else would win
- Moor Larkin
November 24, 2014 at 10:11 am -
The UN are pursuing a campaign to stiffen international laws against rape in war situations. I was utterly baffled about all this at first because I thought, shouldn’t they just campaign against war and by solving the biggest evil so remove all the smaller ones? It turns out that what is driving this campaign is that the concern is that women are being put off being front line soldiers because of what will happen to them if they are captured. This is Equality of the 3rd Kind and will brook no compromise. Starship Troopers baby.
- Furor Teutonicus
November 25, 2014 at 2:01 pm -
XX Moor Larkin November 24, 2014 at 10:11 am
The UN are pursuing a campaign to stiffen international laws against rape in war situations. XX
That is dependent on who is fighting who. I would suggest that ISIS could not give a FUCK, or maybe could, about what the U.N sais.
You may as well tell a rabid dog that it is now illegal to bite the Postman.
- Opus
November 25, 2014 at 2:18 pm -
I find it difficult to grasp, how, in a state of nature – which War surely is – how the concept of Rape can have any meaning. Generally speaking I suspect I would rather have sexual intercourse than be bayoneted. If Rape is a crime against chastity, as was always previously understood to be the case, does not – I ask rhetorically – the taking up of weapons to kill others designate one as outside such niceties as special consideration by reason of Vagina.
- Furor Teutonicus
- Fat Steve
November 24, 2014 at 10:17 am -
Defending ones children, kin or clan (or ones wood burner and source of wood providing always it doesn’t belong to someone else) is I think a noble aspiration…..possessing a ‘natural killer instinct’ exercised gratuitously or at the behest of someone else I am rather less sure about …..whether one is male or female.
- Robert the Biker
November 24, 2014 at 10:29 am -
Difference between wolves and sheepdogs really.
- Fat Steve
November 24, 2014 at 10:46 am -
Or between being an autonomous being or someone else’s tool.
Funnily enough wolves are exceptional parents and are loyal to their packs …..dogs can, like humans (regrettably) be trained to perform just about any task.- Moor Larkin
November 24, 2014 at 10:53 am -
- Robert the Biker
November 24, 2014 at 10:56 am -
Father wolf: You’re never telling me those ugly buggers are MINE!
- Robert the Biker
- Robert the Biker
November 24, 2014 at 10:55 am -
But the wolf develops a taste for mutton, the sheepdog develops a taste for wolf!
- Moor Larkin
- Fat Steve
- Robert the Biker
- jS
November 24, 2014 at 1:27 pm -
The 2 part series The Truth About Killing was very enlightening for me. Its starting point was how very low (around 2%) the proportion of front line soldiers who actively tried to kill the enemy was. This was true even in as clear-cut a conflict as WW2.
It turns out that very few men without modern specific training to overcome their aversion to killing can even bring themselves to shoot long distance at a Nazi, let alone be the murderer at the drop of a hat of recent mythology.The whole thing is on youtube, first section here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vlGR7S2wcI - Radical Rodent
November 24, 2014 at 1:32 pm -
If you believe in evolution then there should be no question in this. The evolution of the human race involved the males having the role of hunting and defending the group from hostile intervention, with the females stay closer to base, and the less onerous task of gathering vegetable produce and caring for the weaker (through illness, injury or age) members of the group, and the hugely onerous responsibility of procreation. However, females have also been shown to have the “killer instinct” when it comes to defending their young – but that is not unique in the animal kingdom. It is this collective sharing of the responsibilities that has given humans the edge in evolution – the generally physically stronger males defend the females, enabling them to the long-term care for the next generation; with probably the longest period of immaturity allowing for greater cerebral development, this is the only thing that humans have over other species.
But there are many who think that five million years of evolution can easily be overturned by a few pages of ill-thought-out laws.
- DtP
November 24, 2014 at 2:14 pm -
Own up – who did the mud & nudity one?
- Joe Public
November 24, 2014 at 3:18 pm -
My bet is ‘Mud & Nudity’ will attract a greater percentage of votes over the last-placed result, than the LibDems achieved over the Raving Loonies at the Rochester by-election.
- Engineer
November 25, 2014 at 2:42 pm -
When I checked, the option with the greatest number of votes was ‘No’, with ‘Yes if it involves mud and nudity’ coming in second.
You naughty Raccoonistas, you!
- Engineer
- Joe Public
- Ian B
November 24, 2014 at 2:51 pm -
I’m afraid I’m entirely in the mud wrestling camp. So long as it’s proper nude mud wrestling, none of this puritanical American swimsuit nonsense.
As to the rest of it, this has nothing to do with the morals or practicalities of war, or anything connected to matters of fact. It is simply the feminist dogma that (a) women can do anything men can do and (b) when allowed, they will do it better and (c) they only didn’t do the thing, whatever it is, in the past because men oppressed them by using their superior physical strength and, oh, wait a minute…
The demands for women in combat coming, of course, from middle class women in comfortable offices, who mean other women doing it. The same ones demanding that other women be CEOs of major companies. Not themselves of course, after all capitalism is evil and not a fit profession for a thoroughly modern matron. Like getting one’s legs blown off by an IED.
- Surreptitious Evil
November 29, 2014 at 4:21 pm -
Although there have been female ATOs and RE EOD officers for some considerable time. I’m not sure whether they get one week in four away from the bomb-face, however. PMT and IEDs probably don’t mix calmly.
^ Some of the above may be a weak attempt at humour.
- Surreptitious Evil
- JuliaM
November 24, 2014 at 2:55 pm -
“I am quite alarmed that there exist any women who really want to contort their faces and rush forward with a bayonet…”
Good grief, Anna, are you trying to tell me you’ve never been to the January sales..?
- Gerard
November 24, 2014 at 3:09 pm -
Best argument I’ve seen in favour of women at the sharp end of combat is that yer average Islamist reckons he won’t go to Paradise as a ‘martyr’ (with the obligatory virgins, etc.), if he’s slain by a woman. Cue scenes of regiments of bloodthirsty Jihadis turning tail at the approach of Amazonian Brigades, desperate to be killed in male-delivered air-strikes.
- Robert the Biker
November 24, 2014 at 4:20 pm -
I can see this escalating quickly!
Jihadi’s start charging with bunches of flowers and chocolates
MOD counters by filling the front line with chubbies with hay fever…….. - Bill Sticker
November 24, 2014 at 4:22 pm -
Aren’t the Kurds recruiting and deploying female fighters for this very reason?
- Ho Hum
November 24, 2014 at 4:32 pm -
If ‘My Word’ were still around, this could have made for an interesting derivation, by Norden or Muir, of the phrase ‘Kurds and Whey-Hey!’
- Ho Hum
- Ed P
November 24, 2014 at 5:33 pm -
They should be told all drone operators are female
- Mudplugger
November 24, 2014 at 9:33 pm -
Female drone – that sounds like Harriet Harperson again.
- Wigner’s Friend
November 25, 2014 at 6:49 am -
Harrier Harpyperson mayhap!
- Wigner’s Friend
- Mudplugger
- Robert the Biker
- Alex
November 24, 2014 at 5:52 pm -
I’m reminded of the film “A Few Good Men” and the line from the character Col. Nathan R. Jessup played by Jack Nicholson;
“I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.”
As to women as “trained killers” (what an emotive expression?), I’ll provide an example (just one of many) – Lyudmila Pavlichenko
seems she was quite sucessful.
- Moor Larkin
November 24, 2014 at 5:57 pm -
Like Boney M said, “ooooOh! Those Russians!”
- Moor Larkin
- Alex
November 24, 2014 at 5:58 pm -
I’m reminded of the film “A Few Good Men” and the line from the character Col. Nathan R. Jessup played by Jack Nicholson;
“I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.”
As to women as “trained killers” (what an emotive expression?), I’ll provide an example (just one of many) – Lyudmila Pavlichenko
a href=”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko
seems she was quite sucessful.
- Cascadian
November 24, 2014 at 6:03 pm -
Indeed I do support womyn as front-line troops, and what a fearsome bunch they would be, Hatty Harman, Yvette Balls, Teresa May, Luciana Berger…….et al. The whole exercise could be achieved at a considerable saving to the defence budget too, no sophisticated weapons required just a group shriek of high frequency noise would destroy any enemy.
Of course in the modern idiom, I do not preclude males from such a troop the English language is now sufficiently contorted to accept that fellow shriekers david camoron, Ed bollocks, and even some of the lispier limpdicks could be accommodated.
I do not only support such a proposal, I demand it, let the politicians deploy to Syria instantly.
- Alex
November 24, 2014 at 6:04 pm -
Corrected link
<a href=”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko
- Ms Mildred
November 24, 2014 at 6:45 pm -
I can see all the killer laydeez staggering along under huge packs, harnesses of assorted gadjets, in clompy boots. Wading in sand, up a steep slope in 40 degrees of heat. Or trudging across the Malvinas in freezing rain weighed down by winter woollies as well as all the other stuff. Sloshing through streams and mud plugging goo. I smile when I think of that American comedy film of women soldiers in training. By the time they met the enemy, they would be so bloody annoyed they’d kill anyone on sight! I tried to vote NO but the little circle just kept rotating, so I gave up.
- Ho Hum
November 24, 2014 at 8:07 pm -
All female armies would be great. Really! Wars, and combat death, would be a thing of the past. Why? How many women do you know who can read a map well enough to think that they could ever find the enemy in the first place?
- Mudplugger
November 24, 2014 at 8:42 pm -
Thinking that one through, it is acknowledged that when groups of women co-exist closely, their ‘cycles’ become synchonised, so the army would probably only be able to fight for three weeks out of four, for the rest of the time, they’re playing tennis, riding horses, swimming etc.
Of course, the same effect would occur with the enemy’s lady-army and, assuming that they were not synchronised with Lady-Army No1, then you could probably only have a proper fight every alternate week before one side or the other had to take a break – this would make for a very different profile of warfare, whilst making battlefield clearance and supply-chain logistics simpler, despite the extra cargo of mascara and vast quantities of super-soft toilet-rolls.
- Engineer
November 24, 2014 at 9:06 pm -
Historically, there is a precedent for that sort of conflict. Go back to the days of the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans, Picts, followers of Welsh Princes etc. etc., and they did all their ‘dispute resolution’ in the time between sowing and harvest; well, they all had to eat, and Sainsbury’s hadn’t been invented yet. They also all agreed that hacking each other to bits during the cold, wet, miserable months of winter was damned uncivilised, too. Days too short, see – and too much mud. It made the marching about hard work.
I gather something similar happens in modern Afghanistan. If we could find a way of knocking off the hacking each other to bits during the summer months too, I feel I could commend the whole arrangement to all.
- Engineer
- Mudplugger
- MTG
November 24, 2014 at 8:20 pm -
Mercy and expediency dictates that women should train to reduce the decades of nagging it takes to get successive partners to the post-mortem room.
- Hank
November 25, 2014 at 12:38 am -
First, I would like to point out tat the female soldiers (volunteers all) of my acquaintance were excellent soldiers.
Since it is very difficult to get an enemy to cooperate with our social norms, women as well as men, should be well enough trained to defend themselves and their units.
It has long been my opinion that femalea should get three or four times the hand to hand combat training as men. It will reduce the temptation to unwanted sexual advances and make them less likely to be successful.
The assumption that women would be less aggressive than men has been often challenged.
For the female of the species . . .
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/hum100/female.html - Obligato
November 25, 2014 at 9:23 am -
No problem with equality in that bayonet charge – and incidentally much less problem with the bayonet charge itself, arguably much less dehumanising and way less “collateral damage” to kill your enemy face to face than the present push-button warfare that makes enemy men and women (and civilian men women and children) mere targets on a screen. my only stipulation is that those who order that charge military or civilian (or their son and daughters if age debars them) are leading that charge…. Cue dramatic fall off in wars declared
- Ms Mildred
November 26, 2014 at 10:18 am -
Obligato… I don’t recall any fewer wars when the head honcho stood on the poop deck or on top of a knoll with spy glass to eye! No fewer wars when the boss lead the charge with flashing cutlass into a hail of muskett balls. In the days when guys slugged it out hand to hand on a small prescribed battle field, it must have been truly horrendous too. At least then it was a straight contest. The side with the most ‘dead and fled’ won. None of this flying about on quad bikes and picking off men in black from a mile away with the aid of a drone. Very unsporting of them. War gets ever more at arms length. I reckon women could do the quad bike thing if they were good markslaydeez…you never know. Are there any women in the SAS?
- Wigner’s Friend
November 26, 2014 at 3:12 pm -
Some obviously don’t need much training.
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