The Dud's Army?
I was in Amiens, northern France on Sunday night; gazing out of the window at a flat featureless land covered with lush grass and contented cows. It was not always thus – Amiens lies at the heart of the Somme battlefield.
Once, I would have been looking at 381 villages full of life; women bottling the produce of the orchards, men milking the fat cows, children playing – but they have gone. Not ‘gone’ because they have abandoned their villages for the fast city life – but gone because their villages were razed to dust, as were they – caught in the crossfire of an idealogical battle. 381 villages, their inhabitants, and 72,205 fine young men of whom nothing could be retrieved to be rebuilt, nursed back to health – or even identified. That is not the total count of the war dead – that is just the total of those for whom only a finger, once resting on a trigger, or a rotten foot could be found – insufficient for a dignified burial with a name plate. For the villagers, there was simply nothing left to return to – just muddy trenches and barbed wire.
Today, brave farmers have ploughed the land again, and returned it to useful life – last year, a 100 years after the conflict, 44 tons of munitions were dug up by farmers and safely disposed of by the civilians of the Somme’s Bomb Squad. Men have built homes for their families, women have repopulated schools; it is impossible not to feel slightly emotional as you take in the human effort expended rebuilding a useful life for the people of this area.
So close to the anniversary of the start of the Great War, the area was crawling with visitors – cars full of Dutch people, coaches from all over Europe with elderly men in their blazers and war medals – and a number of military units. The queue for the ladies room in the Service station was endless; A number of young girls in French army uniform – beautiful girls with stunning figures, even in fatigues – were selflessly standing aside to let the elderly matrons from the coaches go ahead in the queue. Listening to the conversation – ‘après-vous, Madame, non, non, après-vous’ – I learnt that they were on their way to Liberia to establish a field hospital; a surprise posting, they had expected to be at the memorial service in Amiens, hence this hastily arranged trip for them all to honour their fallen comrades two weeks early.
Outside, in the winter sunshine, we were assaulted by an army of sub-Saharan flies, blown north by the approaching hurricane ‘Gonzalo’ – ‘better get used to the flies’ they joked as they rushed off to join their male companions; all equally fit and agile, bright eyed and enthusiastic.
There was reason once, that we picked the brightest, fittest, most intelligent from our communities to fight hand to hand in togas and sandals – but that reason has long gone.
Now we scrape the top of our genetic barrel to carry diseased corpses out of African hovels, or drive land-rovers down mined middle-eastern dust tracks – or to jump and run over the top of muddy trenches into a hail of munitions. It requires bravery, of course, but the bravery comes from electing to serve your country, knowing that is what lies ahead – it doesn’t require any great skill or intelligence to die in a hail of bullets or from carrying an Ebola laden corpse. So why do we sacrifice the cream of our communities to die for their country?
We are told that ‘returning Jihadists’ represent a threat to our nation that we don’t know what to do with; that our prisons are full of paedophiles at great expense; that we must support financially an army of ‘unemployable’ young men because they have not managed to absorb even a rudimentary education – isn’t it time we scraped the bottom of the genetic barrel and established a ‘Dud’s Army’, and replaced social security and expensive prisons with a guaranteed place in the 1st Corpse Carrying Division of the Dud’s Army, or the 31st IED Fragmented Battalion?
Three square meals a day, all the gyms and sports facilities you can shake a stick at – and the chance to serve your country, make amends to society for your previously useless life, and maybe 72 Virgins in the after-life for those who believe in such things?
We are told that our present military is ‘socially diverse’ – but that only refers to their parent’s occupation, and their parents aren’t the ones splattered over an Afghani roadside. They are not genetically diverse! – they are the cream of our breeding ability; the ones who should be at home gaily fornicating with the prettiest girls and producing our next generation.
Let’s hear it for a Dud’s Army. We don’t need Roman gladiators any longer, just keep a few of the brightest to organise the rest, and demob the remainder home to a soft sofa and Sky TV all day…the next generation will be vastly improved and we will save a small fortune.
- Robert the Biker
October 23, 2014 at 10:11 am -
Been tried Anna, the later Roman army was a shower who were beaten by a rabble. All discipline went by the board because the soldiers became mutinous if expected to build a fortified camp at the end of the days march, carry the full pack, or do the hard continuous drill which had made them the finest infantry in the world. Do you really think the clods in our sink estates and inner city slums (made sink and slum by them and their ilk) would suddenly become wonderful soldiers? You need good people for this btw otherwise your enemy, if even slightly clever, lets the scum pass and attacks the following elites who are not expecting it. I suppose we could drive them through minefields and enemy positions with whips but otherwise we might be better off taking them and training them for support positions to free the decent people we need.
- Bunny
October 24, 2014 at 11:24 am -
Robert,
One of the problems is school, in that what if the little darlings fail? How will they feel? Surely they’d be happier if they didn’t try.
Which is a problem of the educational establishment, that the people behind this are people who have passed exams and never been out of the educational establishment. They don’t know about life outside of the school yard.
This brings me to my point about the denizens of the sink estate, if someone had educated them in the truth, which is that you only get out what effort you put in, besides unbelievable good luck, then even if you fail, the individual will have some benefit out of it. So if the little darlings on the sink estate were told that if they actually put some effort into their existence they would have a half decent life and not the crap they currently put up with, it might work. The down side is that the rot set in a long time ago and it will take ages to right. Besides that I agree with your comments.
- Bunny
- SagaxSenex
October 23, 2014 at 10:46 am -
The Duke of Wellington called the forces under his command “The scum of the earth”. He added (probably on another occasion) ” I don’t know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me.” So yes, it’s been done. OTOH, the recruiters for the New Army in WW I found many of the men to be undernourished and terribly unfit. Now they’re obese and unfit, with feet only used to trainers. Big targets, you see. “Adidas / Nikes on the ground” doesn’t have quite the same ring, does it? Love the photo BTW. As always, lovely article.
- Robert the Biker
October 23, 2014 at 11:02 am -
Perhaps we could send the chavettes first! Advance the Croydon facelift and double pram fat cow brigade! All we do is drop doughnuts on the far side of the enemy and then sweep up the crushed corpses afterwards
- Winterwolf
October 23, 2014 at 12:05 pm -
Or instead of doughnuts, if we were dealing with jihadis, we could drop bacon sarnies instead.
The poor snowflakes wouldn’t know which way to run!
- Winterwolf
- Robert the Biker
- windsock
October 23, 2014 at 11:24 am -
The welfare class as canon fodder. Been done before in WW I, which augmented many of the arguments for a welfare state. If the elite expect the poor to defend them, then best look after them when they are ill, old, or jobless or why would they fight? As SagaxSenex says, many were malnourished and in poor condition because they had previously either been unemployed with no money, or in jobs with low wages. It all becomes very circular.
WW I was not an “idealogical battle”. It was a war between empirical elites who wanted more fore themselves at the expense of others. Do you think that would wash today, especially with the growing gap between the wealthy and the poor? I’m all for voluntary service, and if necessary, compulsory one year serving your country (even at home) to become entitled to working age benefits. But I don’t think sending such people into a military conflict wouldn’t be in our best interests.
- windsock
October 23, 2014 at 11:36 am -
“But I don’t think sending such people into a military conflict wouldn’t be in our best interests.” D’oh that wouldn’t should be a would.
- Robert the Biker
October 23, 2014 at 11:38 am -
It’s not so much sending them into conflict as letting them back home with discipline, weapons training, but the same dead end ‘the world owes me’ attitude that left them as losers in the first place. Don’t forget that in WW1 the officer class took proportionally far higher casualties than the bods, because they led from the front! While I agree that the poor should no longer ‘ of their vices produce/ whores for the stews/and soldiers for the Queen’ niether are the days of a free ride at the cost of better men viable any more.
- windsock
October 23, 2014 at 12:42 pm -
I agree, which is why I think national service i.e. something that serves the community within this country, is a good idea for everyone, for a year/18 months after school, but I would not use anyone except volunteers for military/emergency danger situations.
- Moor Larkin
October 23, 2014 at 12:49 pm -
Ah yes. The system of volunteering in the Army was a source of amusement in the past. “Step forward!” was thecommand, and the gullible stand still while the cleverest step backwards…..
- johnbull
October 23, 2014 at 11:51 pm -
Austria retains mandatory military service by popular vote. (referendum 2013)
“The civilian service in Austria is provided as an alternative for conscientious objectors to the compulsory military service. It is served for nine months, three months longer than the military service. Participants can choose one of several organisations (mainly NGOs) at which to serve.[1] Most popular choices for civilian service personnel are working for the ambulance services (usually transporting non-emergency patients to and from hospital) and nursing homes. Other options include serving at hospitals, charity organizations or in several ministries”. (Wikipedia)
Just a thought. I greatly enjoyed my “voluntary” service back in the 60’s. As has my son both as a retained firefighter and a RNLI helm.
- johnbull
- Moor Larkin
- windsock
- windsock
- Fat Steve
October 23, 2014 at 11:31 am -
Well Anna whilst I fully understand and indeed agree with your view of the feckless residuum I am not sure your blog this morning quite qualifies for classification as libertarian. I would like to think the residuum might be changed by persuasion rather than compulsion —by offering a number of better and more meaningful alternatives to the life that they are presently trained for from birth. Wishful thinking on my part perhaps but the starting point might be self reliance which I see as somewhere near the core of libertarianism —an issue of the change in political culture
- Ms Mildred
October 23, 2014 at 11:42 am -
The army, these days, is a bit high tech for educationally challenged dwellers of either sex, from sink estates . I was forestalled on the Wellington quote. Many of the pressed in the navy were hardly tasteful examples of humanity. Somehow they got ships from A to B and colonised the world. Hopefully under the command of Captain Cook who was of common stock and a self made man. I feel a bit queasy about the Ebola postings to Africa. I wonder how they feel about being shipped to an Ebola ridden land? These beautiful youngsters used for a mercy mission. Better than a mission to kill or be blown up by homemade mines, laid by wicked Taliban. My congatulations to The Mountie who picked off the shooter in Canada….wonder what stock he came from?
- Moor Larkin
October 23, 2014 at 11:55 am -
It’s easy to mistake “ship-shape and army fashion” for virtue. The proud German boys at Nuremberg were clearly far more to be admired from a distance than the seething mass of degenerate Jew-boys in Warsaw and Berlin. Where I would perhaps agree that you might have a point is that when any army gets to any battlefield it is likeliest that the most “bravest” (selfless?) will be the first to take a bullet or a piece of shrapnel. Thus perhaps it was that when the Red Army finally arrived in Berlin in 1945, they were the ravening beasts of war legend throughout the ages. Those who had survived, by hook and by crook.
- Mudplugger
October 23, 2014 at 12:19 pm -
Tempting perhaps, but then you end up with a very different military. The current armed forces already take significant numbers from the ‘sink estates’, but those are the ones who positively apply for the job, ones who are ready to accept the discipline and rigour, also prepared to accept the inherent risks of the job. Often not academically brilliant, but well up to what often entails tasks that most of us here would not relish.
Any version of conscription, whether wholesale or punitive, would then equip the military with people who do not want to be there, who do not want to do the job and who do not want to follow dangerous orders. They have been brought up in times where deference to orders from above is no longer automatic, so the ‘line managers’ would be dealing with potential internal rebellions every day, not the best way to conduct any conflict.
After Vietnam it became clear that no modern Western democracy could sustain compulsory enlistment, since when most officers in the military have breathed a sigh of relief that they no longer need to try turning butchers, bakers and candlestick-makers into unwilling soldiers and sailors. To impose the very dregs of society on them would represent an even worse challenge for what is already a most challenging task.
There are better ways to address society’s dregs than to compromise such an important facet of a nation as its defence, but our leaders simply lack the political will, or cojones, to invoke them.
- Ed P
October 23, 2014 at 12:25 pm -
National Service for the dregs might backfire – training the feckless to use weapons properly could be a very bad idea.
For dealing with IS, I like the bacon sarnie idea (above) for Muslims – it worked before in India with pork fat. Or combine it with dropping “Croydon Massives” on ’em – a double whammy, as being killed by a woman is anathema, so a fattie covered in bacon would be terrifying!
- Clarissa
October 23, 2014 at 12:26 pm -
As has been noted above, the Army used to collect up what Wellington called the ‘Scum of the Earth” (although few remember that he qualified it with “…so it really is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are”). Part of this is because criminals were offered the option of the noose or the Army.
The officer corps (and the clergy) were the typical dumping grounds of the surviving spare sons of the noble families and promotions (to a certain level) could be purchased if the officer (or his family) had the money (and the inclination) to do so.
Conscript armies also tend to lack the professional NCOs (i.e. the lifers) that those which only take volunteers enjoy. This results in the junior officers having to do the jobs that otherwise would be done by NCOs as well as a general lack of moral within the ranks – a destructive force if things go wrong when in the field.
- Moor Larkin
October 23, 2014 at 12:53 pm -
* criminals were offered the option of the noose or the Army *
“The Dirty Dozen” was a harking-back for notions of the noble criminal savage. As I recall, the vaguely “sex criminal” (Telly Savalas) remained beyond the pale however.
- Moor Larkin
- English Pensioner
October 23, 2014 at 12:30 pm -
I think that National Service did a lot of good for those who got called up. It forced youngsters to accept discipline in life and made them do something. They had the choice of knuckling down and learning a trade when they got a somewhat easier life, or try to be idle when they got all the rough jobs. The army claim that it would be of no use to them in these days of a professional army, which may be true, but it would probably be more use to the country and those concerned than letting them sit around on benefits. I think the majority who did National Service, willingly or unwillingly and regardless of whatever they did afterwards, look back and admit that it probably did them some good.
- Joe Public
October 23, 2014 at 1:38 pm -
Two aspects Anna:
1. “….our prisons are full of paedophiles”, but presumably many will be given early release to make way for those real criminals – the Twitter offenders?
2. I suppose some bean counters at the MOD have had apoplexy at the recent news reports of £180k missiles used to destroy £1k MOT-failure Toyota pick-ups owned by ISIS.
- No Long Now
October 23, 2014 at 1:47 pm -
The idea of a Dud’s Army appeals to me too, though I can also understand why the military might have qualms.
What I have never understood is why, expecting someone who is unemployed to contribute something in return for their State benefits, is regarded as slave labour and therefore a non starter. Granted the state would have to be better organised and offer alternatives, training and support and time off for job interviews and so on. But the National Service could be non-military.
We are told we need millions of immigrants to do all the jobs Brits don’t want to do. How difficult would it be to have those jobs done by those on benefit who for part of the time would be trained and schooled to progress to the more skilled jobs? A ‘right of passage’ so to speak.
The basic problem to get around would be what has been called the ‘attitude test’. We could give the willful Inadequates time to adjust and appropriate encouragement to do so. Fail that and some stronger form of coercion might be called for. The really determined failures could be given a taste of incarceration they would probably eventually earn by their own efforts anyway.
It is all doable, providing we can find a way to undo what have become the prevailing attitudes and innate sense of entitlement of the last four decades displayed by many who appear to have done little or nothing to earn the right.
- Moor Larkin
October 23, 2014 at 2:07 pm -
* How difficult would it be to have those jobs done by those on benefit who for part of the time would be trained and schooled to progress to the more skilled jobs? *
Ask the Public Service Unions, they are the ones who fear their jobs will disappear and State Slaves replace them. It’s all a bit of a circularity but they think they are special, because they do it for love and not evil profit.
- T B Hall
October 23, 2014 at 3:21 pm -
Nice in principle, but you also have to look at the barriers the Government puts in the way of people being able to provide for themselves. For starters, I’d point at the enourmous taxation that is placed upon productive economic activities and employment, that kill many many economic activities right off the bat. Let us not also forget the planning restrictions that make it impossible for people to provide a roof over their head, and linked, the fact that land ownership is concentrated into the hands of a tiny minority, again, restricting the ability for landless people to provide for themselves. In many cases, these landowners also receive hundred of thousands in subsidies- by virtue of their owning it- once again, paid for by those unlucky enough to have to work, but fortunate enough to be able to work for something economically productive enough that it can still be worthwhile even with most of the added value being taken in tax.
- Moor Larkin
- Penseivat
October 23, 2014 at 2:15 pm -
A lot of sense being said above. I was one of the last to be called up for National Service and offered the opportunity of signing up for the Regulars for a longer period of time (and slightly more money). I ended my military service as a Warrant Officer Class 1 – the highest rank a soldier can attain before commissioning as an officer (“Did you have a commission?” I was once asked at a job interview. “No.” I replied, “I had a straight salary.”). With skills obtained during my Army service, I started my own business and achieved a modicum of success. Growing up in a small North Eastern town, with an obscenely high unemployment rate, although I didn’t realise it at the time, the Army provided an excellent escape route. Perhaps the introduction of a non-combatant type of National Service could provide a similar escape route for others? There are millions of young, unemployed, people who claim that they can’t get jobs, have nothing to do, and it’s humiliating living on benefits. A National Emergency Force, which would be based purely within the UK, could help solve the problem. It could be employed on tasks which local and central governments seem to have ignored for decades in order to save money. The floods in the West country was said to have been caused because no one department would admit having responsibility for dredging the channels. The National Emergency Force could do it. Sea defences are crumbling – the National Emergency Force could rebuild them. The list goes on. Not only would this provide employment, but would also educate and train them into useful trades and skills, especially social skills, for when their term is over as well as providing a sense of discipline and worth. There are also a huge number of trained ex-Service personnel who could be employed to train the incumbents. For those who wish to do so, a voluntary transfer to the Regular military forces, with a higher rate of pay and postings outside the UK, could be available. There are many questions to be answered, of course. Which Government department will pay for this? Will it just be the unemployed who are ‘enlisted’ or a general post code lottery? Will those unemployed who refuse to take part, lose any or all of their unemployment benefits? Will the diverse religious or cultural differences excuse anyone? However, there are those more educated than I who could pore over this and either consider it or ignore it out of hand. Think I’ll go back to bed!
- Moor Larkin
October 23, 2014 at 2:22 pm -
* The floods in the West country … The National Emergency Force could do it.
Sea defences are crumbling – the National Emergency Force could rebuild them. *Thunderbirds Are Go!
- Moor Larkin
- binao
October 23, 2014 at 2:57 pm -
A little too young to do National Service.
The world has moved on; society has changed and their seems to be a limited demand for cannon fodder. Our threat & counter threat, attack & defend requirements need motivated & skilled professionals with modern techie stuff.
So let the armed forces stick to their knitting.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do something to occupy civilians in want of work & adult attitudes. Sadly it’s just bit unlikely that the unions would wear it, and it’s probably cheaper for Mum to look after our perpetual adolescents. Have look at what happens with existing community payback schemes, to get an idea of practicalities.
So the spineless ones at Westminster will just keep on tinkering with benefits. - Griffin
October 23, 2014 at 3:59 pm -
I was a conscript in the army 1945-48, served mainly in Italy and Austria, and learned a lot from that experience which did me a power of good.
- Mike
October 23, 2014 at 4:19 pm -
Anna
I spent my working life in the navy, and have two army sons. I can only speak for the navy, but the people in the other two services are little different. My first ship, back in the 70s visited a wonderful little country, and when we got in to port the local director of health appealed to the ship for blood donors, because, as he admitted, locals wouldn’t give blood unless it was for family. Out of 240 in the ships company 176 turned up to the ad hoc donor clinic; the nurses taking the blood were crying with gratitude. On another foreign visit, different ship, to one of the places that one dreams about visiting, the electrical department, en masse, voluntarily gave up three days ashore to re-wire an orphanage. Everybody in the navy will have similar stories, and having visited the training establishment in Devon where the new entrants first start just before I retired, they are the same kind of people now as then.My point; the navy runs on highly motivated altruistic young men and women with a high work ethic (try defence watches four hours on four hours off for weeks at a time). The duds and delinquents don’t apply to join, wouldn’t stand it if they did, and wouldn’t fit in anyway. We take the altruistic highly motivated one because they are all we can get and keep.
Mike - Alex
October 23, 2014 at 5:18 pm -
A very interesting article, followed by some rather predictable comments. I wonder how many of them were made by people old enough to have had first hand experience of National Service, and how many by the comfy “chattering classes”? Both English Pensioner and Penseivat write from first hand knowledge and seem to have found it a very positive influence. I know it’s only a TV programme but “Bad Lads Army” sort of showed that wayward young men given some discipline and structure in their lives can be turned around by those with the will power to do so. It has to be said that a lot of boys now grow up without any positive male influence at home.
Having read the life story of Andy McNab, a former member of the SAS, I found it interesting that he had been a bit of a handful in his teenage years. He said that the joining the Army had been a real turning point for him. National Service seems to work fairly well in other European countries such as Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Austria and quite a few others. I haven’t heard that these places suffer high crime rates as a result of training young people to use weapons properly. Maybe, having been trained properly, the young people of those countries turn out to be law abiding, responsible citizens?- Robert the Biker
October 23, 2014 at 5:32 pm -
Well, I was Infantry in the 60’s in Canada, so I do have some experience though I bow to many on this board.
I would point out that the countyries you mention are all known for low street crime by the Indigenous Population (important point) and so it seems to me are less likely to suffer a lowering of responsibility due to service. Garbage In – Garbage Out as they say.- Alex
October 23, 2014 at 8:33 pm -
@ Robert the Biker
GIGO – not necessarily. I have heard it said quite a few times by those that went through NS that it tended to knock the rough edges of some of the “difficult cases”, and the same “difficult cases” turned out to be quite good blokes (and useful soldiers) after all. Apparently it soon made a lot of lads realise that they wern’t quite as hard as they thought they were on day – they soon found out just how hard some of the NCO’s could be. As regards the Natives of the countries I listed, it’s that old cause and effect conundrum isn’t it? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
@windsock – Yes I agree to some extent about the “rush to war” aspect. However, I think young people of both sexes would benefit from doing NS, they could be used for a whole range of non combat tasks surely?
- Alex
October 23, 2014 at 8:34 pm -
that should have been day one and off not of.
- Alex
- Alex
- windsock
October 23, 2014 at 7:28 pm -
I would suggest that Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Austria and quite a few others haven’t sent their conscripts into war situations too often. We tend to be a more eager to use military action – that’s my only concern. I’ve no objection to National Service (for both sexes) for use within our borders.
- Robert the Biker
- Wigner’s Friend
October 23, 2014 at 5:50 pm -
Saw an alternative suggestion recently, I suppose it could be called a GOTTY Army.
New Direction for any war: Send Service Vets over 60!
I am over 60 and the Armed Forces thinks I’m too old to track down terrorists. You can’t be older than 42 to join the military. They’ve got the whole thing ass-backwards.
Instead of sending 18-year olds off to fight, they ought to take us old guys. You shouldn’t be able to join a military unit until you’re at least 35.For starters, researchers say 18-year-olds think about sex every 10 seconds. Old guys only think about sex a couple of times a month, leaving us more than 280,000 additional seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy.
Young guys haven’t lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is a dangerous soldier. ‘My back hurts! I can’t sleep, I’m tired and hungry.’ We are bad-tempered and impatient, and maybe letting us kill some asshole that desperately deserves it will make us feel better and shut us up for a while..
An 18-year-old doesn’t even like to get up before 10am. Old guys always get up early to pee, so what the hell. Besides, like I said, I’m tired and can’t sleep and since I’m already up, I may as well be up killing some fanatical son-of-a-bitch.
If captured we couldn’t spill the beans because we’d forget where we put them. In fact, name, rank, and serial number would be a real brainteaser.
Boot camp would be easier for old guys.. We’re used to getting screamed and yelled at and we’re used to soft food. We’ve also developed an appreciation for guns. We’ve been using them for years as an excuse to get out of the house, away from the screaming and yelling.
They could lighten up on the obstacle course however… I’ve been in combat and never saw a single 20-foot wall with rope hanging over the side, nor did I ever do any pushups after completing basic training.
Actually, the running part is kind of a waste of energy, too… I’ve never seen anyone outrun a bullet.
An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He’s still learning to shave, to start a conversation with a pretty girl. He still hasn’t figured out that a baseball cap has a brim to shade his eyes, not the back of his head.
These are all great reasons to keep our kids at home to learn a little more about life before sending them off into harm’s way.
Let us old guys track down those terrorists. The last thing an enemy would want to see is a couple million pissed off old farts with bad attitudes and automatic weapons, who know that their best years are already behind them.
HEY!! How about recruiting Women over 50…in menopause!!! You think MEN have attitudes?? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh my God!!! If nothing else, put them on border patrol. They’ll have it secured the first night.
- Engineer
October 23, 2014 at 7:22 pm -
“….I’ve never seen anyone outrun a bullet.”
That’s why they never built a military version of Concorde. At Mach 1 you’re going faster than a bullet from a gun, so if the thing had ever opened fire, it would have shot itself down.
“….How about recruiting Women over 50….”
I’m fairly sure that’s why Hitler didn’t invade when he was camped in northern France. He wasn’t bothered about the British Army (just seen them off at Dunkirk) or the Home Guard, but he did quake at the prospect of taking on the W.I. – massed ranks of Clarissa Dixon-Wrights with their danders up was more than he could stomach.
- Engineer
- Lisboeta
October 23, 2014 at 6:10 pm -
Normally, Anna, I agree with you 100%. But it has to be acknowledged that most of the choices for the less-academically-inclined, that we grew up with (it seems that the commenters here are mainly of our age group), no longer exist.
Nowadays, a scant handful of companies offer the old-fashioned apprenticeships: joining at school-leaving age, learning on the job, receiving a basic living wage, with the prospect of a recognised qualification (and continuing employment) at the end. There were also the skill-updating options for those in work, available after a certain length of service with one’s employer: day-release at a local tech/polytech college, studying for a recognised qualification, all paid for by the company. And, with the possible exception of elite professions such as Law, the “interns” engaged on a temporary or part-time basis also got paid a basic living wage.
The options for self-improvement, for young and old alike, are now drastically curtailed. If one elects to go to University after school, that entails a significant personal debt. If one doesn’t go to Uni., too many of the advertised “jobs” are zero-hours, or minimum-hours, contracts. And, for all categories, there are more people seeking jobs than there are vacancies available. Which means that employers then whittle down the applicants by demanding “experience” on top of any other requirements.
It’s a whole different kettle of fish from when I first launched myself onto the jobs market!
- guthrie
October 25, 2014 at 9:15 pm -
Much as many disliked the old nationalised industries, I’ve heard a lot of good things about their apprenticeship programs, and met many who went through them in the 1980’s who were able to make something better of their life because they had learnt a good lot of skills.
- guthrie
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 23, 2014 at 8:53 pm -
“a cranky soldier is a dangerous soldier”
I don’t recall who it was but someone once opinioned that the demise of the traditional Full English breakfast was the reason for the decline of the prowess of our Crown Forces. Apparently a fried breakfast leads to dyspepsia by lunchtime and a dyspeptic soldier is a force to be reckoned with, it’s why we managed to conquer most of the globe before a stomach calming tiffin around 4pm.
- The Blocked Dwarf
October 23, 2014 at 9:01 pm -
On the subject of ‘Duds’, recently there hung a recruiting poster in our local Post Office; the Army Reserves were looking for “Mechanics, cooks, Nurses, Drivers and Clerk’s[sic]” .
My work here is done, I shall return to listening to Radio4.
- Ancient+Tattered Airman
October 23, 2014 at 9:22 pm -
When I started my service career National Service was still in full swing. I can only remember one individual who was completely unsatisfactory. Jankers and fatigues were his lot. One way to tame the hard men of that era was to promote some of them and give them responsibility. That system saw some remarkable results with several becoming regulars.
- SagaxSenex
October 24, 2014 at 9:35 am -
I travel to the USA quite frequently and have had a few run-ins with the border security people there. My Southern Belle lady friend nearly always replies to my tales with, “Well, give a redneck a gun and a shiny badge …”. So promotion and responsibility don’t always work out well.
- SagaxSenex
- Carol42
October 23, 2014 at 10:08 pm -
I grew up in the last years of national service and it didn’t seem to do any of the boys I knew any harm. However they still tried to avoid it if possible and my abiding memory is of identical twins, one took the medical and failed so he took it for his brother and passed. Brother was not pleased! But must admit he turned out a far better person than the ‘luckier’ brother.
- Edward Spalton
October 24, 2014 at 12:22 am -
Sagax Senex
To be fair to the Duke of Wellington, he was asked to compare the British and French armies. The French, he said, were enlisted by conscription from all ranks of society. ” Whilst we recruit the scum of the earth, enlisted for drink ” – true enough factually. But he went on to say ” But have made it the finest instrument of policy in Europe” .Of course, he was not a Guardian reader but a man of his time – the time when Nelson’s father doubted whether Horatio’s physique would be up to a successful naval career but mused that ” a canon ball may provide for him entirely” . I don’t doubt that he loved his son but people were more realistic about things then.
- Hadleigh Fan
October 24, 2014 at 5:31 pm -
He meant that a lucky cannonball might take out his superors, this leading to his advancement, not that one would cut his aspirations short!
- Hadleigh Fan
- Stewart Cowan
October 24, 2014 at 5:45 am -
I agree with the wasted lives of these wars, especially the more recent fraudulent ones, but Ms Raccoon, you are sounding like the German eugenicists of WWI who didn’t mind that people were being killed but that the wrong kind of people were being killed, i.e. the young and fittest.
The influence of the Third Reich (and the UK and US “thinkers” who inspired them) have shaped our society today, e.g. Marie Stopes doted on Hitler, sending him adoring poetry while opening birth control ‘clinics’ mainly in poorer areas. This highly dysfunctional individual was so obsessed about a ‘master race’ that she cut out her son from her will because he married a short-sighted woman (the daughter of Barnes ‘Bouncing Bomb’ Wallis).
- Peter Raite
October 24, 2014 at 1:28 pm -
It might be timely to observe that one ex-National Serviceman currently in the news is a Mr H Roberts, although it isn’t anything novel to note that his time in Kenya during the Mau Mau atrocities and Malaya during teh Emergency may have been somewhat formative in his subsequent pathology.
As Mudplugger says, though, the British military has long drawn disproportionately on the lowest of our society, and even if in many cases they may have had their choice forced by poverty and crime (both as victim, or perpetrator seeking a way out), it’s the one who can stick it who raise themselves far above their peers who stayed at home.
Those who are truly unrepresented in the military are the middle classes, and while my younger sister is one of the few exceptions I know personally, the same principle still rings true – being in the army really was the making of her.
On the other hand, the only person I still know who came from a still-infamous sink estate near where I grow up is now a university lecturer….
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