25 Hour News Special (Scotland Decides)
The end is nigh, och aye…
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September 18, 2014 at 1:34 am -
They have not thought this through, at all.
If they think they can set up, what is basically a new country, overnight, they are sadly mistaken.
Germany found that out in 1989/90 when we took on the basket case that was known as the DDR.
Even WITH a “Yes” vote, it will take YEARS before they can be independant. In the meantime, we, the European tax payer, will be subsidising a near third world country, to the hilt.
Defence as an example. WHERE is there a “Scotish navy?” A “Scotish air force?” O.K. There are Scotish Regiments, but they have sworn an oath to the ENGLISH Queen.
Should the ENGLISH armed forces protect Scotland, as if it is some kind of Northern Bosnia?
The place will colapse over night.
“VOTE YES!” I LOVE a bit of Schadenfreud!
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September 18, 2014 at 8:58 am -
Independent has three e’s. Just like Schadenfreude and hopelessness.
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September 18, 2014 at 10:37 am -
Thanks Melvyn. I will bollock my computer for that!
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September 18, 2014 at 2:52 pm -
“Thought through” is not what it’s about at all.
This is the mistake the No campaign have made, arguing on logic and calm, rational consideration.
Those are not the issues; the issues are emotion, Braveheartery, and (especially) virulent anti-Englishness.
There are a lot of Scots who will be perfectly happy to live in Venezuela-with-drizzle as long as they can congratulate themselves on having put two fingers up to the English. Almost any cost is, for them, worth it for that.
Just hoping they are still in the minority…
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September 18, 2014 at 6:38 pm -
Venezuela-with-drizzle…………well done!
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September 18, 2014 at 6:38 pm -
Venezuela-with-drizzle…………well done!
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September 19, 2014 at 4:09 am -
Oi… Salmond…. Its Noooooooooooooo, ye thrawn ill-feckit gaberlunzie!!!
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September 19, 2014 at 12:24 pm -
Furor Teutonicus,
Re: “but they have sworn an oath to the ENGLISH Queen”
She’s not just the queen of England, she’s the queen of Great Britain and all the commonwealth countries. Scotland and England shared a monarch since 1603, when king James VI of Scotland also became James I of England, so they’ve shared a monarch since then, long before the union.
If Scotland had gotten independence, she’d still be queen of Scotland, she inherited from her predecessors…
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September 19, 2014 at 6:57 pm -
She is, of course, also a Scottish Queen.
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September 18, 2014 at 2:07 am -
So… It is reported that 97% of the eligible electorate have registered to vote. No electoral apathy there!
It is clear now that the Londoncentric elite have been caught napping, having agreed (in the person of one David Cameron) to allow Scotland to have a vote in the first place. They have, perhaps too late, realised that this was a most dangerous step to take and those in favour of independence might just, after all, have their way. Given the results of the last General Election I am astonished that those in power in Westminster did not consider this to be a real possibility.
The presence of Cameron, Millibland and Clegg, not to mention a certain Gordon Broon – all begging the Scots to vote ‘No’ was almost guaranteed to change the few wavering voters to a most definite YES!! In my view, they should have remembered the wise words attributed to Abraham Lincoln: “…Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
Scots Wha Hae!!
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September 18, 2014 at 2:12 am -
It amazes me how much of the past couple of years Westminster has devoted to fretting about Europe – utterly pointless charades like the Clegg/Farage TV debate – when something far more important has been brewing on its own doorstep throughout that period.
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September 18, 2014 at 10:26 am -
It’s not just the politicians though; I tried to engage people on forums about the matter but people just snapped at me for “getting political”. I am especially intrigued that a likely consequence of the break-up of the UK will be it’s removal from the inner sanctum of the UN as a permanent member of the Security Council. You have to remember all the time that whilst it is the “unionist party” the Tories have nothing to lose on an internal basis by Scotland spinning off. It’s a bit like Cameron pushing through the gay marriage thing – it was only ever the Tories being pursued for their secret sex activities, so just letting it all hang out might seems against their ‘traditions’ but there the heck is Tory Tradition getting them these days other than labelled as paedophiles? Perhaps we’ve all fallen for the media hype anyway and the Scott will vote 60% against. Remember 1992 and how Kinnock had won the election already? His Nuremberg Rally in Sheffield still makes me wet my pants laughing all these years later……….
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September 18, 2014 at 10:36 am -
XX I tried to engage people on forums about the matter but people just snapped at me for “getting political”.XX
May be the “Combat Bonsai knitters circle” was the wrong place to try?
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September 18, 2014 at 10:43 am -
I wasn’t really ‘trying’. It was just forums I frequented where fellows were pursuing their general interests, but I thought the Scots question was important as a part of our “society”. They just saw it as “politics” and not something they wanted to talk about. Folk blame the politicians for being disengaged but if people have grown so fat and lazy that they imagine that ‘politics’ is just something politicians do it’s hardly surprising that the society has taken the turns it has. I could have pursued the matter on “political forums” I suppose but to what end? I was just interested to know what my fellow average joe thought, and was disappointed to find thought was not on their agenda.
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September 18, 2014 at 2:03 pm -
I have written this before, but….;
I rapidly get the impression that the general public do not link what they do at the ballot box, with whichever “Government” they end up with.
There would appear to be a serious “interface breakdown,” to use computer terms.
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September 18, 2014 at 2:13 pm -
Perhaps because they think the government is there to *give* them something, and the government reinforces this delusion by continually offering to give them *what they want*. Neither side wants to recognise that governments can only give what they have first of all taken. It used to be called common sense, until it was branded Thatcherism and a thought-crime.
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September 18, 2014 at 8:58 pm -
@Moor Larkin Remember 1992 and how Kinnock had won the election already? His Nuremberg Rally in Sheffield still makes me wet my pants laughing all these years later.
Funny Moor that incident came to mind ……and the memorable last public appearance of Ceaucescu (and the look of disbelief on his face) as he came on to the balcony expecting to receive cheers which turned to jeers and then a machine gunning some days later …..and starting to understand why Farage has the appeal he has ……in watching the Scottish devolution campaign develop. Its the arrogance of the political elites in Westminster and in Brussels that have lost the plot…….the Marie Antoinette mind set of let them eat cake There comes a time when hollow form will fail in face of substance—- any substance however weak that substance might be —and I personally doubt the notion of great substance to an Independent Scotland but enough think it adequate when placed against the form of British politics to at least worry the Westminster establishment. If by a narrow margin its a no vote it will be a large bribe of some power and probably lots of money then back to business as usual with much congratulations to the likes of Gordon Brown for having helped ‘Save the Union’ . God how I am coming to hate the idea that politicians genuinely believe they are doing us all such a favour in representing us -
September 19, 2014 at 1:52 pm -
Moor Larkin,
Re: “Perhaps because they think the government is there to *give* them something, and the government reinforces this delusion by continually offering to give them *what they want*”
It’s the governments job to run the country to the benefit of the most of the people in that country, most people who bother to vote know their tax enables them to do that…
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September 19, 2014 at 2:14 pm -
Judging by the numbers I suspect most voters just hope to benefit from government largesse and could care less who pays the tax, just so long as they get more out than they put in.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/13/article-2100345-11B789BE000005DC-890_468x383.jpg-
September 19, 2014 at 4:10 pm -
Moor Larkin,
Re: “Judging by the numbers I suspect most voters just hope to benefit from government largesse and could care less who pays the tax, just so long as they get more out than they put in”
Who doesn’t want more out than they put in if they can get it?
Though i’m sure just about everyone who earns more than £10,000 a year knows only too well taxes are pretty unavoidable unless your self employed….
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September 19, 2014 at 4:21 pm -
* Who doesn’t want more out than they put in if they can get it? *
Me.
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September 19, 2014 at 4:29 pm -
Moor Larkin,
Re: “* Who doesn’t want more out than they put in if they can get it? *
Me”
So you don’t like finding a bargain then?
Anyway, the point is, that everyone who earns more than £10,000 a year and who isn’t deliberately avoiding paying tax by breaking the law, pays tax, so it’s no news to them and those that earn less than that don’t cos they can’t afford to, they still have to pay NI though…
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September 19, 2014 at 4:41 pm -
Bargain? Anyone capable of even simple-minded Economics must recognise that if you give your money to someone and they, having taken their salary first, then gives the balance to someone else, is not going to be able to give you back anything, still less more than you gave them in the first place. The only way you get yours is if they take it off someone-else first. Big Government is just a Ponzi Scheme, that’s why politicians have been turned into smarmy sales executives.
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September 19, 2014 at 5:59 pm -
Moor Larkin,
The tax is to pay for education, public services etc.
People vote for who they hope will put the money to best use. That’s what the government ‘give’, they make choices, like whether to put money into education, health care etc or nuclear weapons.
It’s their job to make those decisions.
They’re supposed to be working for the people and the country…
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September 19, 2014 at 6:23 pm -
* whether to put money into education, health care etc or nuclear weapons. *
…. if only they’d stopped with those three projects, we might have been okay….
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September 19, 2014 at 9:05 pm -
Moor Larkin,
Re: “…. if only they’d stopped with those three projects, we might have been okay…. ”
It can take some people 100s of job applications before they get a job in some cases, what are they supposed to do in the mean time, live on the street? They’ll never get a job then. People abusing the system i.e single mothers that repeatedly get pregnant deliberately to claim benefits and avoid having to look for a job or people that fake illnesses are a problem, but people who are genuinely trying to get a job and just aren’t having much luck need help, or it would be a lot worse for all of us, if they ended up homeless, they’d have no chance of getting a job and would have to resort to crime. Jobseekers allowance isn’t very much anyway….
David Cameron is just lucky he’s probably got a rich family to help him out, and help put opportunities his way, not everyone is lucky enough to have that, and it’s not always their fault….
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September 18, 2014 at 2:54 pm -
Well they may think they’re not interested in politics, but sure as hell politics is interested in them.
You don’t get out of it that easily…
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September 18, 2014 at 8:36 am -
September 18, 2014 at 9:18 am -
Frankie – Whit aboot Scots wha ha’nae?
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September 18, 2014 at 9:04 pm -
Inspired!
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September 18, 2014 at 11:00 am -
Fantastic. This makes very valid points while offering light relief to anyone feeling ecked off.
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September 18, 2014 at 11:23 am -
Are the ‘Yestapo’ getting to you too?
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September 18, 2014 at 2:54 pm -
September 18, 2014 at 9:23 pm -
Ever heard of la Cosa ‘No’ stra ……. ?
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September 18, 2014 at 11:38 am -
Everything changes, excepting the idiocies of the small minded
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September 18, 2014 at 11:48 am -
Not directly, but the coverage is. Like an admired non-voter now calling for more balls.
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September 18, 2014 at 12:19 pm -
Predicting a large “no” vote as the silent “WTF majority?” Get out and vote.
I don’t think it will be as close as everyone is saying………
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September 18, 2014 at 1:08 pm -
The bookies certainly seem to agree with your analysis, Hysteria.
But the odds of almost 5/1 on offer look way off to me. In fact, they look quite tempting. Succulent, even…-
September 18, 2014 at 1:11 pm -
Apparently Betfair was paying out on ‘No’ a couple of days ago – bookies are rarely wrong.
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September 18, 2014 at 1:14 pm -
I very much hope you’re right. I also hope the losing team don’t go on the rampage after the match. A riot in a town centre is bad enough, but a riot across a whole country….
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September 18, 2014 at 1:39 pm -
It’s okay, we only have riots across the country after a Tory victory, and they’re not even in the game…..
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September 18, 2014 at 2:57 pm -
Bearing in mind Plantsman’s comment below, one lot or the other will ‘blame the Tories’ anyway (even though they’re only peripherally involved) – so they’re playing by proxy!
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September 18, 2014 at 1:56 pm -
If the turn out is under 51% of the population, it should be null and void any way.
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September 18, 2014 at 2:16 pm -
They say 97% in Scotland have registered to vote. They will represent at maximum 9% of the UK. That’s the ticket….
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September 18, 2014 at 3:32 pm -
Sorry…. “Registered to vote?????”
Since when? When I was there, you just went and voted. NOW you have to get tattooed with a permission to vote, or what?
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September 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm -
Have to keep the riff-raff out old chap
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September 18, 2014 at 1:56 pm -
BBC World Service remarked last night that they’d be having none of their “facebook-style” discussions about the referendum today since this was prohibited by legislation….. Presumably they will be the only broadcaster locked into Jacobean rules and regulations.
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September 18, 2014 at 2:33 pm -
How’s about a littles competition on the side? A packet of Smarties (if they still exist and the Health Gestapo – with lots of public funding of course – haven’t had them proscribed) – anyway, a packet of Smarties for the first one to spot which of the usual suspects claims “It’s all Maggie Thatchers fault”
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September 18, 2014 at 2:45 pm -
But haven’t blue smarties been rehabilitated?
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September 18, 2014 at 2:38 pm -
From SKY
‘Mr Salmond, leading the Yes campaign, was joined by two first-time voters, 18-year-old [I can’t bear to embarrass them by including their names]…He gave both women a soft Yes toy as a mascot for their vote and the trio stopped for pictures on their way into the polling station.’
What’s that all about? Sheeesshhh! I suppose it sort of catches the spirit of the age but the thought that future elections might be run, fought, and sold by the peddling the wisdom of furries, something like….
‘MairCrap, from comparethedafties.com’
….really doesn’t bear thinking about
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September 18, 2014 at 3:01 pm -
Can he be arrested for grooming? The voters might be under the age of 18….
He’d talk his way out of it, of course. His sort usually do.
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September 18, 2014 at 3:07 pm -
Someone posted today on Vote NO to Scottish independence and protect the union saying he had seen a relative’s son open his exam results envelope to find that it also contained Yes campaign literature.
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September 18, 2014 at 3:35 pm -
Scottish holidaymakers are going to be in for a nasty surprise when they are detained in the USA as terrorists for traveling on forged UK/EU passports this autumn.
There are already plans to set up internment camps in London where millions of Scots will be held pending repatriation. Many applicants for political asylum are expected and families may be divided as those born in England will have the right to stay, however those born in Scotland will be required to seek residency and work permits, based on good character and lack of criminal records.
Meanwhile troops from the Northumberland regiment are manning Hadrian’s Wall where water cannon will be used to repel a flood of refugees from Scotland. Cross border public transportation will be cancelled pending the installment of border crossing points.
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September 18, 2014 at 4:00 pm -
I,m an englishman, living in scotland for 25 years, I ve prospered and so have my two sons,And we all voted yes,Ive just retired from an oil industry job and have no complaints about my job or my workmates, I dont think people down south have any idea how big the oil industry is, Or how innovative it is,Ive just won an award for innovation so theres no bias against the english, also i,m a bit drunk but never mind.
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September 18, 2014 at 5:20 pm -
There may be money to be made but it doesn’t seem to go very far, judging from the state of Scotland’s “oil capital” of Aberdeen. Dirty and run down. Union Street a string of To Let signs with a swarm of shopping centres in the middle. http://www.scottishreview.net/MaryBrown124.shtml
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September 19, 2014 at 2:06 am -
By sheer coincidence, I ended up talking tonight to a close relative who had just spent the last two days working in Aberdeen. Totally unprompted, he described it in, almost word for word, identical terms. Union Street with its tat, Bridge Street oozing sleaze, everything looking grubby, a general ‘fishwifie’ feel, summing it all up, with the utmost, almost incredulous, sadness, as ‘It just isn’t Aberdeen’.
No silver any more.
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September 18, 2014 at 6:34 pm -
I’m a Scot, who has lived in England for longer than you can reciprocate, doing my best to ensure that all the people that I served in my professional occupation, benefitted individually as best as I could manage
I don’t get any say in what might happen to my aged family who still live north of the border, but if you win with your ‘yes’, remember when you’re having a jar in celebration, that I, and probably many like me, will have my 86 year mum on the phone to me tomorrow, in tears, inconsolable that three generations of her offspring have effectively been cast into exile. So feel free to have, on me, a second, or third, or however many more it takes to make the taste of victory sweet
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September 18, 2014 at 6:49 pm -
….”I don’t think people down south have any idea how big the oil industry is, or how innovative….”
They used to say that about coal mining (it employed about 1,000,000 men in Great Britain at one time). They also used to say it about mining in Cornwall (about 50,000 employed at the peak), and about slate quarrying and mining in Wales (about another 50,000 employed at the end of the 19th century). Between them all, they now employ less than 5,000, most of those in opencast coal mining.
Your sons will probably get a decent living out of North Sea oil for most of their working lives, but their sons won’t. All extractive industries grow up, mature and die off. So will oil. How will your grandchildren (and the rest of Scotland) earn their crust when it does?
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September 18, 2014 at 7:47 pm -
Being a highly rational Engineer you say ….”How will your grandchildren (and the rest of Scotland) earn their crust” and the politicians (all of them, brits and jocks) say in unison “why green energy is the way”, your daughters can knit solar panels, your sons will clone windmills and we will deliver electricity wirelessly to your home on demand (yes they believe that kindashit). And the plebs will believe them, and Queen Brenda will lease out the seabed and mr sheffield will secure his rent-seeking projects harvesting government grants provided by his son-in-law, and banks will print money and everything will be milknhoney, because the english taxpayer will pay. And the trainspotting-jock will have plenty of smacknwhisky. Why worry, the intelligensia have thought this through-have not they?
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September 18, 2014 at 8:46 pm -
I’m sure they’ve thought it through. It’s just that the best laid plans of mice and men gang aft agley when facts and reality enter the equation. As Mr Salmond will discover quite rapidly if he gets his ‘yes’ vote.
Picture the scene – a well-appointed office in the Rest of the UK Treasury.
Salmond, “I, King Alex the First, appointed leader of all the Scots, demand that the Scots use the Pound Sterling with full crdit union, in perpetuity.”
Treasury Minister, “No. Fuck off.”
Salmond, “But…but….but….”
Treasury Minister, “The door’s over there. Be a good chap and close it on your way out.”-
September 19, 2014 at 12:40 am -
Ah if only I could believe that. I doubt that the “vow” was subject to any cost/benefit analysis, and extending Barnett is just ridiculous, even Barnett says so!
Here is an alternate scenario:
Salmond, “I, King Alex the First, appointed leader of all the Scots, demand that the Scots use the Pound Sterling with full credit union, in perpetuity.”
Danny Alexander, “Is that all Alex, can we not also underwrite your future policies in perpuity ”
Salmond, “But…but….but….”
Danny Alexander, “You seem to be hesitating Alex, is there anything else we can assist you with?”
Danny Alexander, “Here Georgie, sign this blank cheque, there’s a good chancellor.
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September 18, 2014 at 8:56 pm -
XX , I dont think people down south have any idea how big the oil industry is, Or how innovative it is, XX
And the Scots do not realise who OWNS it.
The only thing Scotland does is colect the rent on the storage depots where they bring it ashore.
Think along the lines; “I am going home, and taking my fucking rig with me laddie!”
Does Scotland have the money to research, explore and drill for oil?
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September 18, 2014 at 9:57 pm -
The chinese have!
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September 18, 2014 at 5:42 pm -
A jockalypse now….
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September 18, 2014 at 6:10 pm -
Brilliant – can I pinch that for a post title? (accredited naturally!)
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September 18, 2014 at 9:47 pm -
An old adage Anna….. Good writers borrow…..Great writers steal
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September 18, 2014 at 10:32 pm -
Sadly it’s not original-found it in a comment on Guido…
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September 18, 2014 at 9:48 pm -
Furor – get a grip, scotland or uk makes no difference when it comes to mineral ownership.
The oilies have signed leases, unlikely to take their platforms away because they are fixed to the seabed. If we are really unfortunate & the yes lot win, windy al & the numpties would just piss the remaining revenue away even faster, one reason they’ve got away with it so far is that the scathing comments have too much palpable nonsense in them to be taken seriously so the campaign for Venezuela on the Clyde gets another free ride. -
September 19, 2014 at 12:21 am -
23:17 – Radio 4… BBC commentators comparing Scotland’s seeking of Independence with the experience of Empire – India first and Zimbabwe was the last, and now Scotland….. … Ye Gods…. and one of these idiots was James Naughtie who is supposed to be an intelligent man. What the hell goes in the BBC tea? LSD?
The Polls are currently predicted as a 46% YES… Oh dear.
But the working class areas of Glasgee are said to be as high as 80% YES.-
September 19, 2014 at 12:44 am -
” But the working class areas of Glasgee are said to be as high as 80% YES”……….a small error let me fix it
“But the welfare class areas of Glasgee are said to be as high as 80% YES”-
September 19, 2014 at 12:41 pm -
The results are illuminating. Scotland breaks down into two basic areas ‘Benefits Scotland’ and ‘Productive Scotland’ – the areas which gave a lead to ‘Yes’ were all in ‘Benefits Scotland’, none were in ‘Productive Scotland’, which gave an overwhelming ‘No’.
Which begs the question, where do all those brain-dead, blinkered, Buckfast Jocks in ‘Benefits Scotland’ think the money comes from – Scotch mist ? If they’d managed to achieve a referendum victory, how long before the money ran out ? 5 years, 10 years – then it would be Darien all over again, only this time a smarter UK government would let them suffer. They don’t know how lucky they are that the 55% sober adult ones didn’t swallow the proffered snake-oil.
But that assumes we’d have a smarter government, current indications are that this one is anything but smart – when the gladiator’s on the floor, you go in for the kill, otherwise he’ll just get up and attack you again.
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September 19, 2014 at 6:35 am -
Look like the NOs have won handily. Terrible coverage on Radio 4. Hopefully the traitor Salmond will now be hung, drawn, and quartered and his head placed on a pike in Westminster.
Radio 4 putting a lot of emphasis on YES having won Glasgow, but failing to mention that the margin was rather small and that most of Scotland rejected independence and that Glasgow probably owed a lot to disgrunted Rangers supporters.
The whole idea of secession based on a simple majority vote is also ridiculous. Should have been set at 60%.
Also only the stay-at-home Scots in Scotland allowed to vote, with the huge Scottish diaspora of the brightest and best being excluded.
What a farce!
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September 19, 2014 at 9:06 am -
Salmond gutted and Sturgeon gaffed – (and probably both fried by now)
Now for the West Lothian question…….
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September 19, 2014 at 10:57 am -
45%YES 55% NO I believe was the West Lothian answer. They know which side o’ the border their bread is buttered on.
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September 19, 2014 at 9:38 am -
Fat Eck and the Small Ponders will be staging a farewell concert at Ibrox. Enjoy.
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September 19, 2014 at 10:43 am -
Cheap seats cost 1 billion eckyouse!
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September 19, 2014 at 12:05 pm -
Don’t worry, all those oil revenues will pay.
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September 19, 2014 at 9:43 am -
Mercifully, when the question was asked, they got the right answer
But there’s not much satisfaction in watching your own nation being pitched into a needless civil war to achieve a degree of self determination that might have been achieved on a sensible basis had there been wiser heads in place at all levels of authority in the UK’s governmental structures
Personally, I hope that the English don’t now have to go through the same sort of pain to get something of an equivalent nature
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September 19, 2014 at 10:45 am -
* there’s not much satisfaction in watching your own nation being pitched into a needless civil war to achieve a degree of self determination *
But how else is England to break free of the socialist shackles these damned impecunious Scots have wrapped us in all these years. First the Darien Scheme then the Royal bank of Scotland destroying the proud National Westminster. It’s time for England to awake and realise it doesn’t have to be this way. They may owe us everything, but we owe them nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GvkyKEYRnM
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September 19, 2014 at 12:49 pm -
Now that this little unpleasantness is over can I leave three little observations (I cannot recall the originators of the first two …):
“Never vote for politicians. It only encourages them.”
“If voting could ever really change anything, they’d never let us do it.”
and the best of the lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdY1Y5XNJBY -
September 19, 2014 at 6:34 pm -
@ Moor L
‘* Who doesn’t want more out than they put in if they can get it? *
Me.’Is something wrong? It’s not like you to make a bid for the Sanctimonious Twat of the Day Award…
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