The End of the World is Nigh…
The end of the world as we know it, that is. Still, we survived the world map no longer being pink all over, and we learnt to call Ceylon – Sri Lanka; in fact some of us refer to Peking Duck as Beijing Duck. I doubt that losing a blue stripe in the flag we are too cowed to display will cause any major vapours.
How will Scotland fare? Let’s forget about the oil and how they will save the NHS – and deal with the mundane stuff; the day to day trivia that irritates the Hell out of those of us who ‘live outside the UK’ but were previously known as ‘British’. Welcome to my world wee Jock – it’s not all plain sailing.
For a start, ‘freed from Westminster rule’ – you’ll get 59 belligerent Westminster MPs dumped back on you – and you’ll have to feed and house them. They’re a fiendishly expensive hobby, used to lavish expenses, and some of them have proved none too honest; we shan’t be contributing to their board and keep any longer – personally, we’ll be glad to see the back of them. I don’t want to depress you too much – but Gordon Brown? Charles Kennedy? Douglas Alexander? All yours – to have and to hold, ’till death doth you part.
I don’t quite understand how ‘independence’ and ‘freed from Westminster rule’ equates with your desire to join the EU and live under the yoke of Brussels.
The former Commission President, Jacques Delors, predicted in July 1988 that within ten years 80% of economic legislation, and perhaps also fiscal and social legislation, would be of EC/EU origin.
At present it’s about 50%. So you’ll only be half free…but if that’s what you want, you’re welcome.
I hope you succeed in your desire to get EU membership, though I doubt they’ll give you some of the special privileges that the UK got – like being allowed to skip out of the Schengen agreement. Monumentally boring stuff, and you’ve probably never bothered to read it – but it’s the bit that allows those of us in Europe to sail from one country to another without ever giving it more thought than, oh, driving from Edinburgh to Carlisle to see your aunty.
It’s the bit that creates those camps full of thousands of Eritreans and Sudanese armed with crowbars at Calais – see, the UK isn’t in Schengen; so the UK was allowed to keep border patrols, and demand passport control. I know it’s a bit of a joke, and widely thought to be ineffective, but when Gretna Green is chock full of returning Syrian jihadists terrorising the neighbourhood, waiting to thump some Weeggie lorry driver over the head in order to have a chance of getting over the border into the UK – and you pull into a newly ‘independent Scottish’ petrol station near the border at midnight and find the pavement covered in sleeping figures in djellabas hidden under a mountain of old rags…wha’d’you mean it won’t happen?
Free movement in Europe and all that, my wee Jock pal, the only reason we concentrate our efforts on the English channel is because that is currently the favoured place of illegal entry – once the word gets out in Bamako that you can ‘just stroll into the UK’ from those beautiful heather covered mountains up in Scotland, and there is nothing stopping you travelling to Scotland – buying a midnight bar of chocolate from your local petrol station will be just as endearing a pastime as it is in Lille, because Hadrian’s Wall will be manned by bullet headed morons in shiny suits waging perpetual war against the North Africans.
(Weary travellers heading for Calais might like to be aware that as of last week, you can no longer pull into any rest station between Paris and Calais – they have all become too dangerous and are now blocked off…only the two big petrol stations 100 miles apart are left – and deeply unpleasant at night; besides being choked with Lorries that have no choice but to stop).
Then there’s all the fun and games you’ll have if you buy a car just over the border – did that pick-up truck for sale in Carlisle look like a bargain? Think on! You’ll probably have to pay cash – I doubt if ‘Wrecks-R-Us’ in Carlisle will take a cheque from the Airdrie Savings Bank; it takes forever and a day to clear a ‘foreign’ cheque – but then the fun really starts – Insurance. See that truck will have UK plates, and in every country governed by EU legislation (you wanted to join the EU, remember?) you will get 30 days to change it to Scottish plates, otherwise you’ll invalidate your Scottish insurance. (No, you can’t insure it in England – you’re not resident in the UK, remember?) You’ll need to pay for a slip of paper called a certificate of conformity (currently about 200 euros) then you’ll need a certificate to say that it’s over six months old so you don’t need to pay extra VAT on it, both from entirely different departments, then you can queue up for hours and hours, whilst someone laboriously checks all the things like engine numbers and engravings on windows….
Ah, you’ll only be buying a Scottish ‘second-hand car’ in future? You won’t have all that trouble? Mmmn, it’ll be like Cuba in five years, same old cars going round and round – or you could buy new of course. What was that Salmond said about everyone being better off under independence?
Then there’s the dog. Nipping over the border to see aunty again? Forget just popping the dog in the car – must be wormed 48 hours before entering the UK, must be microchipped, must have rabies jabs every year, must have its own passport, can only use certain ‘points of entry’ at certain times, to the UK….find yourself a good kennels. Or stay home and forget your English friends and relatives.
So long as you do join the EU, then that ham sandwich on the back seat of the car will be fine, but until you do join, (and if you don’t) then it must be jettisoned, along with any other meat, cheese or dairy products – the rules apply to any products carried in your personal luggage even if they’re for yourself, bought in a shop, home-grown/made or vacuum packed. Yep, even that Thermos flask of tea…God help you if you’ve got a small canister of gas in your camper van – they get seriously upset at that.
Assuming you do join the EU, then your pension should be fine; if you don’t – then welcome to penury. That UK pension will be frozen the moment you ‘live outside the UK’, you’ll never see another increase – as thousands of UK pensioners currently living in Canada, Australia or South Africa could tell you. I’m sure the Scottish government will make up the difference, but you’ll be pi**ed off at the pettiness of it all, and the bureaucracy involved in sorting it out.
Perhaps you’ve lived and worked in the North of Scotland for a Scottish firm all your life and have no wish to visit the UK or have anything to do with it – that’s fine, understand where you’re coming from. Stay at home, stick a Saltire in your Haggis, just don’t think you’ll be driving south for work or pleasure with the same gay abandon you used to.
I just thought I’d point out that when you’ve grown up thinking you were British and then elected to ‘live outside the UK’, you have some surprises in store for you. Why only last week I was threatened with a ‘pre-paid’ electric meter and then refused a mobile phone contract – why? Because I haven’t owed anyone any money in the UK in the last five years (and I’m not an asylum seeker).
You were only coming down to watch the football? Is it really worth the effort?
- Mudplugger
September 17, 2014 at 9:14 am -
If only this post had been printed on every deep-fried Mars Bar wrapper…..
But then again, reading’s quite tricky for the hard-of-thinking, much easier to go along with the local snake-oil salesman.- JuliaM
September 17, 2014 at 9:53 am -
I thought they ate ’em wrappers and all!
- JuliaM
- Amfortas
September 17, 2014 at 9:15 am -
Hehehehe. I have Scottish blood from my Grandad on my mum’s side (she was from Jersey). One eighth of the red stuff in my veins. I reckon two donations should be good enough to send back to the Highlands. I shall want a receipt of course. Oh, and sixpence ; compensation for the cup of tea.
I will have to send it from Oz though.
- Robert the Biker
September 17, 2014 at 9:58 am -
It will be even more fun if we have to set up a border (line will be along the old Antonine wall BTW, Hadrians wall is entirely in Northumberland) because all passport info is currently in London and Peterborough, let the sweatys set up their own office for that too.
The Cumbernauld tax office can take a running jump too, I decline to discuss my tax affairs with a foreign office. I won’t be using RBS for my business account, and no, having a brass plate up in an anonymous London office is not enough, Lloyds had better wise up too. No ebaying in Scotland, I don’t accept payment in Ochs or whatever they’ll be called. I won’t be working in their oil industry either, and yes, as a senior engineer in that industry, they might find that a big deal. Not that they’ll have much, the number of fields in Scottish waters inside the twelve mile limit is small, and the companies that run them on a slender margin will not appreciate wee Eck sticking his oar in, they can shut them off quickly and leave it till things settle. The Norwegians won’t care, they don’t need Scottish offices or yards, they have lots of ex pat Englishmen and modern facilities elsewhere; their big gas line Llangeled, comes into Hull so the jocks can piss off for that too.
All in all, the end of the tartan twattery would be good news for me! Any MPs thinking of giving them an easy ride should look to their majorities which could well be wiped out and the leaders could expect back bench revolt.- Hysteria
September 17, 2014 at 12:50 pm -
Yip – for me (English, working for an American company, based in Aberdeen but currently “posted” overseas) the very idea of splitting the country is a complete nonsense. I very much hope for a large “no” vote – anything else will be really bad news . For me personally probably a move back to England – which I now realise is “home”…….
- AdrianS
September 18, 2014 at 8:12 pm -
Presumably if it’s a yes vote Scottish people who are receiving benefit in EWNi, May get repatriated if they can’t show they’re actively seeking work.
- Hysteria
- Dioclese
September 17, 2014 at 10:12 am -
Nice analysis Anna. Saves me doing it.
It’s the head and hearts thing tho’ isn’t it? Personally I think they’ll bottle it and go for No which is not to say that they won’t go for Yes. The Welsh bottled it when they were offered a full Parliament like Scotland but just watch them bitch if Scotland votes Yes.
And the English? Well, the English are denied their own Parliament/Assembly and is the only UK nation not to have one. They’re already bleating.
Of course, the only reason that Wales and Scotland have legislatures is that the EU considers the UK too big to be allowed to govern ‘itself’ in one lump, so the UK government created Regional Development Authorities to find a way of fudging around it in England, otherwise it would be ‘Home Rule for Yorkshire’ amongst several others. Scotland, Wales and Ulster were small enough to not need RDAs as a work around.
Whatever happens tomorrow, the result will be a mess. I shall ruminate and post myself later. The one certainty is that tonight’s all night TV coverage is going to be monumentally boring…
- Mudplugger
September 17, 2014 at 11:58 am -
The genie is out of the bottle, playing directly into the hands of Brussels, which always wants smaller units of pseudo-democracy in order to exercise its divide & rule policies.
The Labour Party is already on the case, recognising that any genuine devolution at nation-level would render it powerless in England, so it is promoting city-level devolution instead, where it can still marshal the huddled masses and creative postal votes the way it has always done.
After tomorrow, whatever the result, UK politics-as-usual stops – where it will take us, nobody knows, but it’s probably not a good place.- Moor Larkin
September 17, 2014 at 12:03 pm -
Not to mention the BBC:
Arif Ansari, Political Editor, North West
After decades of centralisation, there’s a growing consensus that England cities should be granted greater autonomy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29201541- Mudplugger
September 17, 2014 at 1:27 pm -
What a surprise, the BBC acting as the broadcasting wing of the Labour Party. It’ll be getting all mutual back-scratchy with the Guardian next.
- binao
September 17, 2014 at 10:53 pm -
Just as worrying is the belief that expanding local authority powers will be beneficial to economic growth.
Some years experience on the bottom rung of local authorities, and looking upwards, so it could, but only in paperclip & printer ink manufacture.
- binao
- David
September 18, 2014 at 1:44 am -
Cities with greater autonomy? Like Rotherham perhaps?
- Mudplugger
- Moor Larkin
- Mudplugger
- Bernard from Bucks
September 17, 2014 at 10:18 am -
“you can ‘just stroll into the UK’ from those beautiful heather covered mountains up in Scotland,”
Haven’t we been able to ‘stroll up from the beautiful peat-bogs’ of southern Ireland into the UK without any fuss?- Moor Larkin
September 17, 2014 at 10:56 am -
No. You might be able to sail here though, without too much fuss, but first you’ll need a boat. One reason the Union was first assented to by the English was that it was a handy way to keep the French and Spanish on the High Seas rather than fraternising on land and wandetring in through the back door – hardly a worry now, seeing as we’re mostly owned by Johnny Foreigner anyway…
- SpectrumIsGreen
September 17, 2014 at 2:13 pm -
But of course Southern Ireland isn’t in the Schengen area so it’s outer borders are as secure as ours.
- Moor Larkin
- Moor Larkin
September 17, 2014 at 10:23 am -
Now I like a man that is a man; a man that’s straight and fair.
The kind of man that will and can, in all things do his share.
Och, I like a man a jolly man, the kind of man, you know,
The chap that slaps your back and says, “Jock, just before ye go…”Just a wee deoch an doris, just a wee drop, that’s all.
Just a wee deoch an doris afore ye gang awa.
There’s a wee wifie waitin’ in a wee but an ben.
If you can say, “It’s a braw bricht moonlicht nicht”,
Then yer a’richt, ye ken.- Moor Larkin
September 18, 2014 at 8:38 pm
- Moor Larkin
- Cloudberry
September 17, 2014 at 10:31 am -
Great article. It would be worth posting on the Vote No to Scottish Independence and Protect the Union Facebook page, or in a comment on the Better Together or Yes Scotland pages. Preferably minus the ‘wee Jocks’. Things are said to be on a knife edge, with undecideds crucial.
- Moor Larkin
September 17, 2014 at 12:09 pm -
The main thrust is all about no more Tories and no more Thatcher. It’s political in the pure politics way. I put up with 13 years of Lefties wrecking the country but never once did it occur to me that being independent of Scotland and their block socialist vote was the answer to my problem. The fact that apparently half of the Scots think my voting Tory is so intolerable that they need to live in a different country simply says to me that I’ll be a lot better off without them too. A close vote saying NO will not resolve this – it’ll just be there poisoning the atmosphere for more years to come. It’s only a clear NO vote that can resolve the matter. In that sense, if it’s a marginal NO, then please all you Undecideds, vote YES.
- Cloudberry
September 17, 2014 at 3:45 pm -
They have swallowed the hype. Or the pap: http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/09/16/scottish-have-been-fed-a-load-of-pap-by-nationalists-says-former-uk-pm-john-major/
I believe separation would be more likely to increase conservative support in Scotland. There would be no counterweight from England, no-one to oppose but each other.
- Cloudberry
- Moor Larkin
- The Blocked Dwarf
September 17, 2014 at 10:41 am -
Having , many years ago, lived and worked in Scotland for a short period and still bearing the scars of countless ‘boot n bottle’ fights with the Tangerinees I know just how much Scots would value my opinion…if I even had one ie “NO at feckin ALL! Y’ken?”
That said, one of the reasons we elect MPs is to protect us from ourselves. It is a accepted truism that left to our own devices -ie rule by referendum- we would reinstate the Death Penalty, Exit the EU and have a “Tony Martin” Home defence clause before the ink dried on the ‘yes’ box. (BTW the House of Lords is there, in part, precisely because it is unelected and thus can protect us from our democratically elected representatives).
Or as Pratchett puts it: “Vimes could see the problem with Democracy right there”.
The majority is the problem. And in this particular referendum there will it seems not even be a majority either way. This kind of change requires a majority of around 70+ % to have any chance of becoming accepted by the minority. Friday morn around half of Scotland is going to be pissed at the other half, no matter who wins. Y’ken?
- Robert the Biker
September 17, 2014 at 11:02 am -
“we would reinstate the Death Penalty, Exit the EU and have a “Tony Martin” Home defence clause before the ink dried on the ‘yes’ box”
Failing to see the problem here…..:)
But yes, rule by majority has its problems, but nowhere near as many IMHO as the rule by minority and ‘priviledged classes’ we have now.
Mps saving us from ourselves is all very well, but I didn’t elect them to be my mother, I elected them to put MY point of view; if they want to do it all based on what THEY think is wonderful, then run on that platform. You may have noticed that none of them do that – it’s all ‘man of the people’ until they are sitting in the comfy chair with five years of ackers and expenses guaranteed.- The Blocked Dwarf
September 17, 2014 at 11:52 am -
“Failing to see the problem here…..:)”
There isn’t. In principle…
“I elected them to put MY point of view”
It’s a nice idea but it’ll never work.
” if they want to do it all based on what THEY think is wonderful, then run on that platform”
They do, it’s called a ‘manifesto’.- Robert the Biker
September 17, 2014 at 12:06 pm -
They do, it’s called a ‘manifesto’.
Which is then ignored once in power – my point exactly!
- Robert the Biker
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Moor Larkin
September 17, 2014 at 11:04 am -
Business as usual in Glasgee then…
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2011/12/29/1325165073485/Rangers-and-Celtic-fans-a-007.jpg
- Robert the Biker
- theonlygoodeuisadeadeu
September 17, 2014 at 11:04 am -
The price of groceries will shoot up, some items will disappear from the shelves altogether, because the costs of distributing these and many other items are subsidised by the English shopper.
There are plenty of Fake Charities in Scotland which although they are registered as charities (in Scotland) actually live off hand outs from the Exchequer. There is one where over 90% of its income is from Westminster. Hundreds of people working in these charities will become unemployed on day one.
It will take time to arrange trade agreements for Scottish exports. In the meantime plenty of firms will go phut.
Soon Salmond will have his dream of poverty for all and Scotland can twin with Montenegro.
- Dioclese
September 17, 2014 at 2:11 pm -
Ever been to Montenegro? It’s rather nice and they have their heads screwed on. When they broke off from Serbia (without a war which was, in itself, a major achievement), they didn’t have a currency so they asked of they could use the DM and the Germans said yes. When Germany joined the Euro, Montenegro got in for nought without having to join the EU. Best of both worlds. Result!
Now the Montenegrin economy is booming – selling very expensive houses to very rich Italians who want to shift their Euros out of Italian to hide it from the tax man. I rather liked the place – but I can’t afford a bloody house there…
- theonlygoodeuisadeadeu
September 17, 2014 at 2:30 pm -
Never been to Montenegro but they seem to have independence nailed! Somehow I can’t visualise Scotland as a tax haven – being as there is a conspicuous lack of palm trees.
One businessman, Richard Poulden, has written an open letter to Salmond suggesting that Scotland becomes a clearing house for the Chinese Renmimbi.
- theonlygoodeuisadeadeu
- Dioclese
- Moor Larkin
September 17, 2014 at 11:08 am -
MonteAfrican-American surely
- Robert the Biker
September 17, 2014 at 11:16 am -
McVenezuela
- Robert the Biker
- David S
September 17, 2014 at 11:08 am -
I had a moment of epiphany this morning while listening to Alex Salmond’s ‘interview’ on Radio 4.
Salmond is, in fact, a cyborg. He appears to answer questions but he doesn’t. He responds to them. He talks – at length – but if the question is awkward, he employs one of his many avoidance routines to end up talking about something totally different.
He is not a man: he is a Turing machine in human form.
- Davi r
September 17, 2014 at 11:20 am -
What utter tosh
- Hysteria
September 17, 2014 at 12:53 pm -
Why?
- Hysteria
- Davi r
- SagaxSenex
September 17, 2014 at 11:20 am -
Why wouldn’t the inhabitants of the Outer Isles want to sign up and become Norwegian? Oslo’s nearer than Edinburgh, Norway has one of the world’s the richest sovereign wealth funds. Eating the ljutefisk might present a problem, of course.
- Cascadian
September 17, 2014 at 9:12 pm -
That is exactly the issue that resolved the Canadian separation referendum attempted by Quebec. The Inuit in the northern half of Quebec basically said -if you separate from Canada, we seperate from Quebec and take ownership of vast mineral wealth and hydro-electric infrastructure. It was more complicated than that -but that is the essence of it-greed and misplaced pride. The useless politicians had very little effect on the outcome except to make matters worse-sound familiar?
Basically the argument is this-if jockland can separate from the UK, then regions (Hebrides and Shetlands) can separate from jockland, and since they could then claim ocean floor ownership of a great proportion of jocklands estimated future oil/gas revenue then seperation becomes an economic disaster. Would that stop them? Doubt it, this vote has turned into a bad c-grade movie, starring idiots and charlatans, appealing mainly to the overwrought and under-educated.
Had the camoron studied Quebec, he might have avoided this debacle, but he is lazy and inept, too interested in fellating Obama and pretending Britain is a great power.
- Cascadian
- opsimath
September 17, 2014 at 11:56 am -
A fine post, Ms Raccoon — thank you. I have just one tiny thing to add: while the nd of the world may not be quite nigh, it is surely nigh-er than it was this time yesterday.
- GildasTheMonk
September 17, 2014 at 12:02 pm -
One of the more informed and better balanced (as well as well written) blogs on the arguments and arguing after considered thought for “no”
can be found herehttp://martinveart.blogspot.co.uk/
Top man, by the way.
- Jim
September 17, 2014 at 12:33 pm -
Dinnae worry yer wee heid, hen! We can a’ go tae Norway fur oor hoalidays!!
- Jim
September 17, 2014 at 12:35 pm -
For some light relief, watch the quite funny John Oliver analysis of the referendum:
http://youtu.be/-YkLPxQp_y0 - George H
September 17, 2014 at 12:41 pm -
All this dissertation type blogging making political analysis of government statutes and rules. Efforts to effect understanding of the freedoms at stake for Scottish independence or staying a Scottish union. It is all doom and gloom! Informative it certainly is, but how many readers have forgotten the UK is a non sovereign union under the EU cloak and UK sovereign state in name only? If the Scots think they’ll have this sovereign independence with a successful “Yes” win and become a sovereign state – they are mistaken. They will still be under the yoke of foreign powers with non sovereign status. Read the SNP manifesto for Scottish independence and you will discover separation from the union will also be in name only. A separation of union will have many “conditional” legal Scottish ties for English rule that makes Scottish independence a mockery. However there is slight advantage if Scotland does separate from UK (albeit under conditional rules): The Scots will be in a better position to FIGHT for true Independence and sovereignty.
- Ho Hum
September 17, 2014 at 1:15 pm -
Ah, that’ll be Wee Eck sending his tugboat, then?
- George H
September 17, 2014 at 1:42 pm -
Probably, but has Wee Eck got a licence for that tugboat?
- Ho Hum
September 17, 2014 at 3:59 pm -
I thought he was out on licence….
- Ho Hum
- George H
- Ho Hum
- Joe Public
September 17, 2014 at 1:46 pm -
Superb.
There are many south of the border who now actively wish for a ‘Yes’ vote.
- JimmyGiro
September 17, 2014 at 2:25 pm -
I wrote the following on a pro-Yes blog [it got ignored, so I’ll try it here]:
Addictions, passions, and fashions, are all attempts to control the present. They appeal to the future by pissing vague pictures in the sand, that wash away ready for the next wave.
So it is that Utopians, despite their dreams of a better future, live in the present, for they are all control freaks. If they truly saw the future, they would not risk revolution. But that does not stop them from appealing to the rebels, especially the rebellious youth.
Unlike the Utopian, who lives to control the perpetual present, the rebel seeks to escape from the infernal past; it is the rebel’s call to “freedom”, that is hijacked by the wet-dream of Utopian control.
This is why so many revolutions end in terror, for the people driving it are aliens to the people driven by it. Freedom becomes Robespierre; Egality becomes Lenin; and Fraternity becomes Mao Zedong.
- Robert the Biker
September 17, 2014 at 3:07 pm -
Ecktopia
- Robert the Biker
- Phil
September 17, 2014 at 3:21 pm -
Sorry to disagree, but the Scottish blood in my veins wants “YES”, and my heart, here in Catalunya is with the people who are desperately seeking independencia from Rajoy´s Spain! Equally as detestable as all the British ruling classes and the occupants of Buck House!
- johnS
September 17, 2014 at 4:11 pm -
Salmond’s “Independence” sounds to me like the sort of “independence” a stroppy teenager wants: to be able to do what they want but still have “their” bedroom at home, to be able to borrow the car at will, to have Mum to wash their clothes, to have Dad pick them up when they are stranded 30 miles away at night, to be bailed out with cash as and when necessary, to be loaded down with food parcels…
- Cloudberry
September 17, 2014 at 4:27 pm - Joe Public
September 17, 2014 at 4:41 pm -
To me, Salmond’s “Independence” is where he wants a divorce, yet be able to continue to enjoy conjugal rights (of our currency).
- Mudplugger
September 17, 2014 at 5:00 pm -
……and someone always get screwed.
Just wondered how long it took the young Mrs Salmond to work out that her beau, Alex, seemed to spend all his time standing at the end of the bed, telling her how wonderful it will be, but never actually being able to deliver on his promises.
- Mudplugger
- Cloudberry
- Richard
September 17, 2014 at 4:58 pm -
Regardless of the outcome I suspect the main reason this particular boil was allowed to fester was because primary legislation emerged from one place only.
Using Anna’s own analysis and understanding: Let them all have their own rules and tax raising powers but don’t let them vote on issues that affect me where I live.
The only logical next step (bearing in mind I live in rural/semi-rural Gloucestershire) would be to start the Campaign for an Independent London.
Who’s with me?
- Mudplugger
September 17, 2014 at 5:04 pm -
Be careful what you wish for.
Horrid place that it is, London generates vast amounts of tax revenue, some of which is currently (if reluctantly) allowed to leak out into some other parts of the country. Build the ‘Boris Wall’ around the M25 and the rest of the economy looks a little bit Greek.
- Robert the Biker
September 17, 2014 at 5:27 pm -
London sucks in people and services/goods from all over. I have commuted from Northampton, worked in the Medway, Reading, travelled from Tunbridge Wells*…..A Boris Wall which allowed London to function half well would stretch from the Medway out to Swindon and from the south coast area around Hastings and Petersfield up to Watford Gap. No, it’s not ideal, but the place has grown that way, and that one small area has twice the population of Norway.
Currently live in Hayes and work in Camberley.
- Tim Newman
September 18, 2014 at 8:31 am -
…and work in Camberley
Say hello to the boys in Sugarland for me.
- Tim Newman
- Robert the Biker
- Mudplugger
- Andrew Duffin
September 17, 2014 at 5:37 pm -
It’s a nice dream, but the EU doesn’t work that way.
EU rules, in practice, mean whatever “The Colleagues” want them to mean.
They want Scotland in the EU, it’s already designated as one of their “regions”, others of which will in time replace all the countries of the UK.
The dislocation and chaos caused by the kinds of scenarios you outline will never be tolerated, either by Brussels or by Edinburgh.
A way will be found, and the Spanish (or anyone else who objects) will be told to shut up and lump it.
My prediction – an “independent” Scotland will slide neatly into the EU on the very day it separates from England with no fuss at all, and things will go on much as they alway have done, in almost all situations.
But there is still time for people to come to their senses, and they need to for all sorts of other reasons.
- The Blocked Dwarf
September 17, 2014 at 7:00 pm -
I have a suspicion, more than a suspicion really, that Andrew speaks the truth of it.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Davd
September 17, 2014 at 7:15 pm -
At great expense all of our British patriotic songs will need to be re-written. They will not be all as easy as “Rule Britannia” – Red, white and no blue, what does it mean to you.
- The Blocked Dwarf
September 17, 2014 at 7:19 pm -
“At great expense all of our British patriotic songs will need to be re-written”
Uhm “Anarchy In The NU-K”?
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Carol42
September 17, 2014 at 7:30 pm -
Born in Glasgow and spent half my life there I have no say in what happens to my country as I live in England. Whatever happens, and I think it will be no, there will be a terrible legacy of bitterness. My own family, most of whom are in Scotland are deeply divided and it looks like half the country will be disappointed on Friday. The only good thing I can see coming out of this mess is a new constitional settlement that is fair to England. I never understood why England accepted the blatantly unfair devolution, the Labour Party will fight tooth and nail to keep the Barnett formula and their 49 MPs voting on purely English matters but this time I hope the people of England will finally speak.
- Cascadian
September 17, 2014 at 9:29 pm -
Unfortunately, it will be much, much worse than you predict.
The Barnett formula has already been conceded by all three “leaders”, investors understand that even if the result is no that this is a first attempt that will be followed by future separation attempts, (the neverendum) since that will be economically destabilizing expect a stealth removal of assets away from jockland, bigger deficits, bigger Barnett subsidies-more bitterness.
Personally I hope for a yes result and destruction of the liebour, conmen and limp-dick parties. Sadly followed by a socialist paradise that will self implode in a decade.
- Carol42
September 17, 2014 at 9:48 pm -
Even if conceded I have my doubts if any of them will get their proposals through parliament without significant changes, the whole thing has built up a lot of resentment in England in a way I have never heard before. I am sure there will be attempts to have more referenda but I think it is finished for a while. I don’t think many people except for the fanatical will want to go through this again.
- Cascadian
September 17, 2014 at 10:16 pm -
The Barnett formula is already in effect, (much to the chagrin of Mr Barnett apparently) your “leaders” have conceded it will continue, sadly reference to what is best for English taxpayers or reducing debt is rarely considered.
Cannot agree with you regarding neverendum, nevertheless I hope you are right.
- Ho Hum
September 17, 2014 at 10:36 pm -
Not so sure about the last bit. On losing, I can easily see Wee Ecky Boko stirring things up further on a “We was robbed” type of slogan, blaming the older, and hence ignorant, conservative, hence less adventurous, generation for cheating all true, and particularly young, Scots of their true birthright. If he goes down that path, things will only get worse, and much more fractious.
He’s a revolutionary visionary, and generation after generation fall for their guile, only realising in retrospect that they usually turn out to be ruthless, bigoted, conscienceless, and dictatorial, villains, who will wilfully, and cheerfully, destroy others’ lives, livelihoods and relationships – other than their own, of course – in pursuit of the imposition on all of their particular version of whatever nirvana they are convinced awaits everyone over the horizon, if only they will do, and be, what they are told will be good for them
- Cascadian
- Carol42
- Cascadian
- Davd
September 17, 2014 at 7:31 pm -
Contingency plans are clearly in place, London Times Job vacancies – Suitable individuals are are invited to apply for the post of Ambassador to the new country of Pictland. A deep knowledge of crude vernacular English is an essential requirement; a thick skin and high tolerance for whisky would also be useful attributes.
- Carol42
September 17, 2014 at 7:32 pm -
Sorry missed the tick for follow up comments!
- Carol42
September 17, 2014 at 7:36 pm -
Ps a few friends have asked about my spare bedrooms!
- binao
September 17, 2014 at 7:51 pm -
Best summary I’ve seen.
And because of a wrong fork in the road over devolution we’ve got Scots at each others throats. If it hadn’t been Salmond , some other opportunist would have exploited them. When it goes wrong it will still be the English that get the blame for centuries to come because it’s easy, but at least they won’t be blaming the Jews.This isn’t the same as kicking up about the eu, it’s about 300 plus years living together for mutual benefit without becoming homogenised.
I’ve lived & worked a bit in Catalunya, enough to have my limited Castilian trounced with a response unnecessarily & unhelpfully in Catalan more than once. It’s a busy bit on the side of a country which is pretty empty in the middle, and only a few decades since Franco & associated horrors. So I understand that one.
I also did three years working in Glasgow, OK, it was back in the 70’s, but the culture shock was immense. The Apprentice Boys march through the small town I lived in was intimidating. FKB & FTP sprayed everywhere; I had no idea what it meant.
It wasn’t the easiest place to live & work, but I got on OK with the people despite the ingrained industrial suicide.
I know it’s all been painted & pedestrianized now, but I’m sure the same fierce polarisation is there; it’s been exploited again, but this time by playing the ‘we’re victims & it’s all the English’s fault’ card.
The result of the vote is almost academic, sadly there’s trouble ahead either way.
Just a view, & my mother was a Scot.- The Blocked Dwarf
September 17, 2014 at 8:16 pm -
” The Apprentice Boys march through the small town I lived in was intimidating.”
When I went up to Scotland in the 80s I was taken aback by the second question always being ‘are you catholic or protestant?’ (or words to that effect…’ye a billy O a dan O an auld Tin Can ? being one of the politer phrases’). As a southern Brit I knew that Northern Ireland had it’s religious divides but no one had warned me that Scotland had too. I learnt some important lessons my first day in Scotland; there were people, a lot of people, who genuinely believed that the Pope (JP2 back then I think, a less Satanic man you could hardly envisage) was the AntiChrist , that a bottle round the head indicated that my answer as to my confession was displeasing to whoever had enquired and that The Big Yin wasn’t joking when he described the Orange Men.
- Ho Hum
September 17, 2014 at 11:03 pm -
In the South West, sure. But not in most of the rest of the country.
There was an Orange Order march sanctioned one year in the town in which I lived. No idea why, but there was never another.
- The Blocked Dwarf
September 18, 2014 at 1:12 am -
“In the South West, sure. But not in most of the rest of the country.”
I was mainly in E’burgh Central (The Bridges) working with tango coloured kids from the picturesque and quaint hamlets of Pennywell Gardens and Broomhouse. Also ‘met’ quiet a few tangerinees from Kirkcaldy & Falkirk.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Ho Hum
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Norman Brand
September 17, 2014 at 11:16 pm -
The more that power is devolved to ever smaller units, the more power in fact devolves to the bossyboots of this world. Sad, because in theory it is a good principle.
- Michael
September 17, 2014 at 11:46 pm -
No problem with independence in principle, but this Salmond character plainly hasn’t got a clue what he’s on about. He bleats on about Westminster rule then wants to pull all the Scottish MPs out of, erm, Westminster. Which would be fine, except he wants to continue relying on Westminster for the currency union. How generous does he think the UK establishment, nay the Tory led (as that’s what it will be, without all those Scottish Labour MPs) is going to be when it comes to setting monetary policy? Clearly they’re not going to give two figs about the independent nation to the north and will make decisions in the best interests of what remains of the Union.
There are so many things that will hit Scots hard if this goes through. From students who will be charged international rates to study in England, to fishermen looking to the Met Office for weather forecasts to the exiting of the BBC to the fact that Scots who travel abroad will no longer have embassy representation, increase in postage, food and fuel prices, massive tax rises, mass emigration of companies, border controls, a collapse in the financial services sector due to the absence of a regulator, policing and NHS infrastructure which will need building from the ground up. We’ve only just scratched the surface. All this stuff costs money. Lots and lots of money. And Scotland doesn’t have it.
What will happen is that either the UK will be forced to step back in with a massive bailout fund (as with Ireland), or the IMF/EU will end up bailing them out and parachuting in technocrats to run the country (Ireland/Italy etc.) Independence? I don’t think so.
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