Memory Tricks.
I can remember events that date back to being three years old – but they are ‘fixed images’ rather than a ‘video’ rendition of events. I have a clear image of my Father, bent over an old Rayburn, cooking bubble and squeak for me – but if you ask me ‘what was on the table in that room’ or ‘who else was present’ I couldn’t tell you – I don’t have the ability to ‘replay’ the entire sequence of events as I do for later memories.
Even at age 8, the memories are fairly static – and here I can draw on some that might properly be described as traumatic in that I was in hospital for many months, undergoing surgery, and didn’t see or hear from my parents during that time. You might have thought that event was traumatic enough to be imprinted on a child’s memory – but in fact I had totally forgotten until my brother came up with a letter written by me, found in my Father’s papers, which referenced in my childish hand writing, that I hadn’t seen them for two months, and hoped they might find time to visit me. No sooner did I see that letter than it brought back a host of other memories, including the name of the young lad in the bed opposite me, the fact that his Father was a farmer, and that he had managed to blow his chin off twice with his Father’s shotgun – in search of rabbits. I was particularly upset about him for it had been necessary to give him a glass eye, which he used to take out every night…
I am quite confident that if someone had shown me an article 50 years later regarding a man called Jim, of farming stock, with a glass eye, perhaps a reference to the Oxford area, or a childhood shooting accident – I could easily convince myself that it was ‘Jim’ from the bed opposite. (if perchance you are reading this Jim, I apologise for bringing back memories of the screaming creature with all the tubes in the bed opposite you…but you did give me terrible nightmares).
I was minded of these memories when I read the NHS report of the allegation made against Jimmy Savile at the Roecliffe Manor. The NHS investigator had no trouble believing that ‘the informant was a sincere and honest individual’ nor that life in that convalescent home was ‘harsh’ – a nurse confirmed that a child had been tied to a chair for bed wetting; whilst such treatment might seem horrific in 2014, I was tied to the bed frame for repeatedly pulling out my ‘tubes’ so find it totally believable, and in keeping for the times. Children’s hospitals and convalescent homes weren’t the cuddly ‘mummy lying next to you’ ‘decorated with balloons’ and ‘nurses that make you laugh’ establishments that we expect today.
However, patient ‘A’s recollections proved harder to match to reality. Despite claiming to Operation Yewtree that he had placed an advert in the Leicester Mercury which had brought forth 47 e-mails from ‘other children abused by JS at Roecliffe’, he was not willing to hand over details of who those people were. Repeated advertisements in the same paper and a variety of other papers by the investigators failed to elicit a single response. Requests for patient ‘A’ to contact the 47 himself and ask them to come forward elicited the response that they didn’t want to talk to the investigators. Who were the 47? Assuming they existed, were they people who scented another compensation claim and had come forward to him and reinforced his belief that it was JS at Roecliffe?
Whatever the answer to that question, by this time, patient ‘A’ was quite sure that the person who had abused him at Roecliffe was called Jim, had dark hair, did ‘odd jobs’ round the hospital three out of four week-ends, wore a brown porter’s coat, sometimes worked on the hospital radio, and drove an old van ‘like a butcher’s van’.
By the time of his third interview, the best part of two years after constant media attention on Jimmy Savile, the butcher’s van had become a ‘camper van’, ‘Jim’ had lost his dark hair and was identified from a contemporary photograph as being the peroxided Jimmy Savile, and patient ‘A’ had remembered being taken to meet Slade, T-Rex – and, of course, Garry Glitter, in a motorway service station – and offered as corroboration that he had since been told that it was well known that these stars were often seen in that motorway station…
It is not hard to see what has gone on here – nor to sympathise with patient ‘A’. Old disjointed memories of an unhappy and frightening period of his life have been shorn up by modern stories in the media. From the report we can glean that he is today, a ‘fragile’ individual. Was he sexually abused – or did he undergo some painful medical procedure at the time? He remembers a nurse ‘comforting him afterwards’. If we accept, as I am quite happy (happy is probably the wrong word in this context) to do so; that he was abused by someone who worked as an odd job man at the hospital – we know that he wasn’t called Jim – they had never employed anyone called Jim.
Neither, after probably the most exhaustive and painstaking investigation carried out by any of the NHS Trusts, was there any record of Jimmy Savile ever having been near the place – and their dedication to the task is to be applauded.
That’s not a ‘false allegation’ – that is a painful memory being given socially acceptable validation in a modern context; it’s not malicious, it’s trying to make sense of that memory of the glass eye…
This incident, in turn, came to mind when I saw the photograph at the top of this page. It’s a Village Hall in Hampshire. There are Village Halls like it all over the country. People use them for low-key weddings, the annual dinner and dance of the Geranium Society, and the Council Rates rebate office letting their hair down at Christmas. They are cheap to hire, and if you don’t go with the brown Windsor soup apparently being served in our picture, you can dismiss the tables and cram 150 people in there to listen to the newsagent’s son and his three friends squark out a rendition of the latest hits and jig about a bit.
My photograph was taken in 1969. If you weren’t alive back then (JuliaM???) you will have to take my word for the fact that it is utterly representative of the scene that you could have photographed in hundreds of similar halls the length and breadth of the country. Soberly dressed people having what passed for a fun packed evening out in those days. No fights, no punch-ups, nothing exciting happening.
Except that one young lady does remember something happening in that very hall. Not that it should be described as exciting – traumatising would be the word. She remembers that a man put his hand up her skirt and touched her vagina over her clothing. She was the same age as patient ‘A’ in 1969. She’s never forgotten that incident, nor his ‘hairy hands’. The man had got up on stage and was singing an old song that has been around since 1902, but had recently been reissued.
The song was ‘Two Little Boys’. Everyone knows that Rolf Harris released ‘Two Little Boys’ to world wide acclaim around that time. Everyone knows now that Rolf Harris doesn’t have hairy hands. In fact everyone knows that despite exhaustive inquiry that rivals that of the NHS investigators there is absolutely no record of the extraordinary event that would have been Rolf Harris, world famous entertainer, appearing on stage after the Brown Windsor soup in Leigh Park Community Centre. No record of it at all – and no one else come forward to remember what would have been a staggering event in sleepy Havant in 1969.
The Rolf Harris jury were asked to chose whether they believed the word of ‘three victims’ (who must be believed) or the word of a man who had twice deceived his long-suffering wife by having lengthy affairs, who was roundly condemned as a liar for not remembering being at ‘It’s a Knock Out in Cambridge’ (he wasn’t – he was at a TV program called Star Games, which he might well have remembered). The jury, who were ‘confused and unable to come to a decision on Friday’ had by Monday, made a decision between a ‘deceitful liar’ and someone ‘who will be believed’ and jailed Rolf Harris as a paedophile.
Am I alone in seeing similarities between the ‘Leigh Park Incident’ and patient ‘A’ who spent long periods in Roecliffe Manor and the tricks that memory can play on you when your memory is jogged?
Am I alone in wondering how Slater and Gordon manage to juggle the hundreds of ‘historic abuse cases’ they are now handling as a result of the ever helpful media – and the fact that last year they also recovered £13,000,000 in personal injury damages for 1,050 Police Federation members.
- Fat Steve
August 28, 2014 at 3:31 pm -
Let me be the first to observe this is your writing at its best Anna —delete the word blog and substitute essay for what you have written and then critique it against T.S. Elliot’s summation of what constitutes the ideal essay and it is (sorry to gush) as close as it gets to the ideal. Baaaahhh!!!! you really ought to accept a presentation volume of your prose —not for yourself but for posterity !!!!
- johnny howson
August 28, 2014 at 3:35 pm -
Anna, you are not alone. I did not follow the Harris trial closely at the time but following the verdict and then the clamour of outrage from the main “victim” subsequent to the announcement of RH’s appeal I have felt uneasy enough to dig around a bit and I am frankly astonished at the jury’s verdict. Having read quite a lot of the evidence ( though by no means all ) …….well, if I had been on that jury it would have been a different outcome.
I wonder if others share my ( and your ) doubts here?
xx Johnny Howson
- Gil
August 28, 2014 at 5:18 pm -
Yes, I find it puzzling too. Anna’s article really makes you wonder how memory works. The part I can’t understand is the post-Savile effect of being reminded of a celeb just like Savile who destroyed your life.
- Moor Larkin
August 28, 2014 at 5:32 pm -
“… Sometimes the falsity seem to lie in the possibility that the person has transmuted a possibly genuine personal trauma of their past, onto a handily-hated celebrity, thus ensuring the sympathy of the press and public when they tell their story. They give themselves a voice by proxy and since their own nemeses are as beyond their reach as Jimmy Savile is, he’ll do as well as any body to make them able to “get their story out”. …”
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/righton-wrong.html- EyesWideShut
August 28, 2014 at 5:49 pm -
I think this does happen more frequently than we like to admit, and the scapegoat is not necessarily famous or in a position of authority. They are just “handier”. I personally know of one case where the victim of genuine abuse accused a relative stranger, because they were too afraid of damaging family relations by naming the real offender. In their head, they thought if police and social workers were involved, the perpetrator would lay off. However, the story unravelled under gentle and persistent questioning.
I also think the initial trauma may not even be the one alleged in some cases.. it’s not unheard of for people to select one which they feel will be taken more seriously, not just as an official complaint, but because they feel the bare details of what was so upsetting to them might not be regarded as “proportionate” to the level of distress they feel. These are murky psychological waters indeed and i am well out of my depth in them ….
- Gil
August 28, 2014 at 10:46 pm -
It’s hard to believe that any transference could be anything other than deliberate. A person might confuse someone at the other side of the street for someone else, but someone close enough to abuse them? If they’re able to put their conscience aside and accuse someone they know not to be a perpetrator, their conscience wouldn’t need a genuine abuse experience. They could just make it up from scratch.
- Pericles
August 30, 2014 at 7:08 pm -
Another perspicacious — sometimes I use a highfalutin word of Latin or Greek origin just to annoy the Proletarian-English Campaign — contribution from some-one whose contributions usually do belie his handle (Sorry: that should’ve been ‘autonym’, shouldn’t it?).
Gil, I wonder whether there’s an element of Münchhausen’s syndrome involved.
ΠΞ
- Gil
- EyesWideShut
- Moor Larkin
- Gil
- Joe Public
August 28, 2014 at 3:37 pm -
From the University Hospitals of Leicester page to which you linked RE: claims dating back to the late 1950’s/early 1960’s:-
“The investigation has concluded that sexual abuse of children residing at Roecliffe Manor is likely to have taken place,……. ” [my bold]
I call that utter bullshit; and whoever wrote it should be reprimanded.
An event ‘may’ have taken place; but half a century later that quoted excerpt is likely to be 100% speculation. And nothing more.
- windsock
August 28, 2014 at 7:01 pm -
I’m going to quibble with you Mr Public.
As per Anna: ” ‘the informant was a sincere and honest individual’ nor that life in that convalescent home was ‘harsh’ – a nurse confirmed that a child had been tied to a chair for bed wetting; whilst such treatment might seem horrific in 2014, I was tied to the bed frame for repeatedly pulling out my ‘tubes’ so find it totally believable, and in keeping for the times. Children’s hospitals and convalescent homes weren’t the cuddly ‘mummy lying next to you’ ‘decorated with balloons’ and ‘nurses that make you laugh’ establishments that we expect today.”
So I believe that child abuse could have easily occurred in children’s hospitals. However, as Anna points out, who did it, when, how and what are subject to constant re-evaluation and revision.
I believe child abuse has been a constant throughout the nation and throughout class structures and throughout history. It’s only now we are taking it seriously and are trying to deal with it and taking it seriously (though I have to say, making a mess of it as we do so).
- Joe Public
August 28, 2014 at 8:31 pm -
The report’s purpose was to investigate an allegation (singular) that Jimmy Savile had sexually abused a child (singular) at Roecliffe Manor Children’s Convalescent Home.
An entire team investigated, and, produced 49 pages of report.
“The investigation has concluded ….. it has not been possible to corroborate evidence to conclude that Jimmy Savile was responsible for carrying out any sexual abuse on children at Roecliffe Manor, or that he ever visited Roecliffe Manor.”
In other words, we don’t know if JS ever visited Roecliffe Manor; AND, even if he did, we don’t know whether he sexually abused any child.
However, to justify the massive costs they incurred, especially by hiring external consultants who found nothing, they raise the spectre that something may have happened to someone. At some time.
The statement that ‘the informant was a(n) .. honest individual’ begs the question “How do you know?” It takes just a single event to create dishonesty, yet a lifetime to ‘indicate’ honesty. (It’s only an indication ‘cos no one will ever know for certain.)
- Joe Public
August 28, 2014 at 8:37 pm -
Should have added even if “The NHS investigator had no trouble believing that ‘the informant was a sincere and honest individual’….. ” how do we know the level of the investigator’s gullibility?
- windsock
August 28, 2014 at 10:31 pm -
Well, colour me cynical, but just because there’s no JS evidence, does not mean that nothing happened there with someone else. Abuse has always been rife in institutions. We are now more aware and what I take away from your quotes from the report is that the investigator tacitly accepts this. And that is quite depressing.
- Moor Larkin
August 29, 2014 at 10:00 am -
@ just because there’s no JS evidence, does not mean that nothing happened @
The ayes have it http://www.dangerouslybored.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ayeaye.jpg - Joe Public
August 29, 2014 at 10:29 am -
“….. just because there’s no JS evidence, does not mean that nothing happened there with someone else. ”
Really? Don’t you think the ‘investigators’ would have jumped at anything, just anything, they found – in order to justify their existence?
“….the investigator tacitly accepts this.” On the contrary; the investigators, of unknown gullibility, have an opinion but not 1 shred of evidence.
- Moor Larkin
- windsock
- Joe Public
- windsock
- expoƒunction
August 28, 2014 at 3:40 pm -
“Am I alone in seeing similarities between the ‘Leigh Park Incident’ and patient ‘A’ who spent long periods in Roecliffe Manor and the tricks that memory can play on you when your memory is jogged?”
@Anna – Absolutely not. There have been countless studies of how unreliable our memories are and of how susceptible to external influence we are too. There’s also compelling evidence of the least skilled amongst us being the most overconfident.
Here are some well known but rather striking examples: http://bit.ly/1tZH024
- oi you
August 28, 2014 at 4:27 pm -
Yes, I was left feeling that the jury had been manipulated or even coerced into giving a guilty verdict. Some years ago, the RH case would never have made it to court. How times change….?
- Jim
August 28, 2014 at 4:39 pm -
Anna…you are just, quite simply, brilliant at writing.
I cannot believe how we (the general population of the UK) are so happy to accept that people are being jailed on evidence that is less than flimsy and how we don’t believe that, once accepted as a reasonable thing, it won’t be used against us for a variety of “crimes” – from allegations of violence, sex abuse, racism, hate speech, theft….anything they want really.
- Moor Larkin
August 28, 2014 at 4:45 pm -
Madame’s Sat night reference from the other weekend is the perfect exemplar of how the spread of “similar fact evidence” through the judicial system has already proved your point.
http://exinjuria.wordpress.com/2014/07/15/ring-cycle/
“At the beginning of the 20th century similar fact evidence was limited to murder trials in which the facts introduced were undisputed and very close in character to the facts being tried…. the future Lord Denning drafted a judgement in which the principle was extended to allegations, for no better reason than his own abhorrence of homosexuality… “
- Moor Larkin
- EyesWideShut
August 28, 2014 at 5:14 pm -
The Roecliffe report is one of the strangest documents I have ever read. There seems to be no evidence Patient A was ever at the convalescent home in question (which is not to say he wasn’t, but I would have found it easier to get my bearings had there been some documentary proof) and even assuming that he was, the time-line for his stay is subtly elided. I am still unsure whether he claims to have been there for the entire period between his 3/4 year and his 9th, or whether he is referring to two separate admissions. The Lead Investigator says that because he mentioned a sun room and a discipline room, which did not exist in other convalescent homes in the area at the time, then he must mean Roecliffe Manor, which seemingly possessed both. A lucky guess on Patient A’s part? Local information from someone else who had spent time there? Who knows?
The whole thing is so dubious and odd, I’m afraid I can’t make head or tail of it. The Lead Investigator seems just as baffled as I by the account. Of course, this can and no doubt will be attributed to the passage of time and the youth of the patient at the period when the alleged offences took place. I am pretty sure if more people had come forward with similarly vague accounts, the conclusions would have been different. Safety in numbers.
If I had to take a wild guess, which is what the authorities seems to be doing nowadays, so I don’t see why i should be left out of the fun, I would say if Patient A was at Roecliffe, and “something happened”, I ‘d be interested in those 13 year old boys he mentions, who told him they had been “interfered with”, but not at Roecliffe, at Melton Mowbray. Did they tell him something that made an awful impression on him, or did they offer to show him just what they meant? It’s as good a theory as any and a theory is all it is, without any solid evidence.
BTW – very disappointed the Lead Investigator didn’t follow up Jimmy Savile’s side-kick with the Scots or Irish accent. Eamonn Andrews? Val Doonican? Are they so utterly forgotten now?
- Moor Larkin
August 28, 2014 at 5:28 pm -
Careful about Val please. He’s alive and rockin’ in his rockin’ chair still!!
- EyesWideShut
August 28, 2014 at 5:31 pm -
Oh Val – what ever they say about you, I’ll never believe you were guilty of anything but a lousy taste in knit-wear.
- Moor Larkin
August 28, 2014 at 5:33 pm -
Dunno about yours but I reckon my mudda woulda….
- EyesWideShut
August 28, 2014 at 5:35 pm -
My granny thought he was the bees knees.
But her real favourite was Dave Allen.
- EyesWideShut
- Moor Larkin
- EyesWideShut
- Moor Larkin
- mike fowle
August 28, 2014 at 5:15 pm -
I called on a friend the other week that I see regularly but had not visited at her home in the country for several years. I was quite convinced that I could recognise her house and the white picket fence outside etc. I drove up and down her street for a long time until I eventually thought of looking for her car and found her house. On the other side of the road and completely different from what I thought I had remembered. Memory simply cannot be trusted after a time. I have tried to remember what I was doing in 1972 (the Bloody Sunday enquiry) and cannot. I would not trust supposed memories of that. There has to be statute of limitations on cases based on memory. I admire the hard work and eloquence you are bringing to rectify what seems to be miscarriages of justice.
- Carol42
August 28, 2014 at 5:38 pm -
Memory can play some very strange tricks. When I saw two very old friends in Canada recently it was amazing how some things one remembered vividly I had no memory of at all, same with some of my memories. I had known these women for many years, one since 3 and one since 5. I mentioned here before that I was attacked over 40 years ago and quite honestly I had forgotten about it until we started discussing historic claims and that was more serious than anything I have seen in these cases. Not one of these convictions is safe and I can’t understand the guilty verdicts or the ridiculous sentences. There has been discussion about removing citizenship from terrorists returning saying it would not be right without actual evidence but isn’t that what they have done to all the ageing celebrities? Jimmy Savile is of course pronounced guilty by everyone regardless of the lack of proof. Strange kind of justice these days.
- Pericles
August 30, 2014 at 7:47 pm -
There is a certain irony in so many of these convictions. I hate the abuse of the vulnerable as much as any other but, despite the fact that our ‘innocent till proven guilty’ system does in effect call for a jury to pronounce a verdict on the basis of which of divers witnesses — including the defendant — it finds more credible, I cannot help having reservations about many of the verdicts we’re discussing. (Savile’s case, as little as I might have cared for him in life, is a travesty permitted only by the law on defamation: he has never had and will never have his day in court.)
ΠΞ
- Pericles
- Bill Sticker
August 28, 2014 at 5:45 pm -
Memory is a tricky thing. What makes me suspicious of all these thirty and forty year old allegations is that they are made by people who “Put their keys down five minutes ago and can’t find them for the life of me.” Because they were thinking about something else, someone asked them a question, a dog barked, whatever. Specifically average human beings with the customary loose screw. If it wasn’t reported or formally recorded within eight days, or even eight seconds in most cases, the memory is subject to corruption.
People literally make stuff up, mostly because they weren’t really listening at the time and are covering their arses so as not to look stupid. They will even happily perjure themselves in a court of law to cover up a minor lapse in attentiveness. Having first convinced themselves that what they thought they saw actually happened. Even if Mr Brain was in ‘idling’ mode at the time.
It’s also worth noting that hormone surges during puberty and adolescence can leave quite vivid false sexual memories. Why the courts are treating these seriously is quite beyond me.
- AdrianS
August 28, 2014 at 6:28 pm -
Trouble is time plays tricks on the memory, that’s why courts should rely on contemporaneous evidence such as official note books. There really should be a statute of limitations for these old sex cases, they cost the tax payer a fortune and at such distance can we really be sure justice is done. Your right Rolf Harris visiting Leigh Park, which is a council estate, would have been a big deal for the locals and someone would have remembered. I’ve been on the estate many times so i do know a bit about it. Many of those born on the estate in the 60s won’t have moved that far away so someone should have remembered. I can still remember exciting events from the 60s , I can recall living in our Ave and the pretty girl along the road was going out with a racing driver and he used to bring new E-types along. At 7 yrs old we were allowed to sit in brand new e-type convertibles and we felt on top of the world.
Great blog and great comments - Dave
August 28, 2014 at 6:52 pm -
Top post Anna,
I’ve been reading the old posts and your forensic skill is first class.
Required reading and shared at every opportunity
Dave - sally stevens
August 28, 2014 at 8:18 pm -
Jess Conrad was sort of a Pat Boone-y type. Also fond of knit wear in his early days. See he’s approaching that dangerous age that interests MWT so much. http://www.jessconrad.com/
- Opus
August 28, 2014 at 8:36 pm -
The problem with memory is that there is nothing to check it against – that is until one comes across some contemporaneous document which shows that ones memory is faulty. I have a friend who enjoys retailing old stories; he does it so much he has come to believe many of them even though he is both mistaken to the facts (which he had invented for dramatic effect) and frequently could not have had an adequate view of proceedings to say what was happening. Other people then repeat his stories as if they are true.
In a criminal case a jury is supposed to be satisfied that in convicting the Defendant it is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt, that is to say beyond a shadow of a doubt as to the Defendant’s guilt. The burden of proof is set at the highest possible level short of omniscience. Even ignoring the wise strictures about memory that our authoress has set out above it is simply impossible on the evidence to be convinced of the guilt of Rolf Harris at the appropriately high level required. Being less than frank with ones wife or having a lapse of memory is not sufficient to clear that hurdle or get anywhere close to it. Juries (and Judges and other magistracy when deciding facts is their responsibility) are notorious for judging incorrectly (about fifty per cent of the time I would say). The Harris case should never have been committed for trial (let alone pursued by the CPS – who are riven with misandry) and the presiding Judge should have thrown it out on the first day.
I was at a Village Hall in 1969 (heard Hey Jude for the first time – I remember that, or think I do) and do not recall any incident of the type described above.
- Cascadian
August 29, 2014 at 1:50 am -
Perhaps a mathematical relationship could be determined, something like:
The degree of the complainants historical recall is directly proportional to the wealth of the accused. Or more simply
The degree of the complainants historical recall is proportional to the compo available squared.
Some degree of error is obvious, liebour apparatchiks apparently have hardly any recall of facts.
- Joe Public
August 29, 2014 at 10:37 am -
How about “The degree of the complainants’ creativity is directly proportional to the wealth of the accused. “
- Carol42
August 29, 2014 at 3:31 pm -
Good one! Not seen any poor people accused
- Pericles
August 30, 2014 at 7:55 pm -
… or the size of his estate.
ΠΞ
- Carol42
- Joe Public
- GildasTheMonk
August 29, 2014 at 10:26 am -
Troubling indeed.
- Jonathan
August 29, 2014 at 12:02 pm -
Memories… and pop stars… I was, of course, around in the Sixties (and a pop star) and well remember literally dozens of stories told by other pop stars of how the 18 year old “groupie” (remember them?) the night before took off her clothes and revealed a bra stuffed with her father’s socks! Horrified pop stars sent them away and worried for days about a knock on the door. I was old enough to remember these tales well, accurately and in detail (I never did drugs and didn’t drink either). Those young girls, now in their sixties, may well have become – unintentionally – “false accusers” (“how could I ever have behaved like that?”). And quite a few young boys too (remember – there was no gay age of consent; any male sex with another male was a crime).
- Strange World
August 29, 2014 at 7:51 pm -
Memories can and do play tricks and coincidences happen all the time. For instance, Rolf Harris did appear in Portsmouth at least once, (link below), but that was 1963. It was at the Portsmouth Guildhall described as “the biggest events venue in the Hampshire city of Portsmouth”.
12 March “Thank Your Lucky Stars” with Joe Brown, Susan Maughan, appeared at the Guildhall
Tornadoes, Jess Conrad, Rolf Harris, Shane Fenton, Peter Jay & Jaywalkers appeared at the Guildhall
http://michaelcooper.org.uk/C/guildhall.htm
The thing is the Guildhall is a place were you would expect someone like Harris to appear especially if he is promoting a new single or album, yet 5 or 6 years later he is supposedly appearing at small community centers. Possible I suppose, but surely only if he was doing a tour of community centers. Did anyone bother to check the local archives of surrounding areas? It should be remembered that Two Little Boys was a million seller, topped the national charts for 6 weeks. It’s difficult to see the rationale behind promoting it at a small community center. A Guildhall gig maybe, but a community center? I wonder if anyone remembers the Guildhall gig?
As coincidences go he appeared with Jess Conrad.
For Jan of 1963 the site also records.
24 January Johnny & the Hurricanes, Brian Hyland, Little Eva, Brenda Lee compere Jimmy Saville? appeared at the Guildhall (Tickets, 8/6d, 7/6d etc) .
And in 1969 the following act appeared.
November, Cliff Richard & the Shadows appeared at the Guildhall with tickets from 25/- to 13/-. Mind you Cliff was also there in 1959, 62, 63, and 64.
A field day for the conspiracy types, but in reality you would expect the big names of the time to appear in places like the Guildhall.
- giles2008
August 30, 2014 at 12:37 pm -
Cliff was also at Portsmouth Guildhall in the early eighties for two gospel concerts in aid of the “Tear Fund”.
- giles2008
- Pericles
August 30, 2014 at 8:08 pm -
Beautifully written article, Anna, and interesting discussion, every-one.
As time passes, I find myself doubting the origin of many of my own memories from years ago: are they my memories or do they constitute the distillation of a mixture of my memories and reports — from all sources — of the incidents I claim to recall.
I must say, Anna, that your being restrained to prevent your removing the tubes — which might reasonably be seen as for your own benefit — is quite different from a child’s being tied to a chair for bed-wetting, a punishment intended only to ease the work of the home’s staff.
ΠΞ
- Pericles
August 30, 2014 at 8:17 pm -
Pericles, you idiot: a question ends with a question mark! ΠΞ
- Pericles
- Gil
August 31, 2014 at 2:44 am -
At least two of the women apparently gave interviews to ITV.
Portsmouth: http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-31/harris-victim-refusal-to-extend-sentence-is-an-insult/
Someone who was living in Cambridge: http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-04/victim-rolf-harris-was-a-nasty-man-who-took-advantage-of-his-position/
Same person? http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-30/victim-not-enough-even-if-rolf-harris-died-in-prison/Cambridge waitress (dubbed by actor): http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-01/victim-calls-on-rolf-harris-to-apologise-for-attacks/
She apparently didn’t tell anyone, including her parents. Tonya Lee also said she didn’t tell anyone, or her mother. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy1OS0tKDyw 10:26 “I just wanted to talk to my mum” 11:28 “Did you tell anyone what had happened?” “No, no.” 13:00 “Did you want to tell your mum?” “No, I didn’t, actually.” + http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10843692/Rolf-Harris-fondled-petrified-schoolgirl-on-theatre-trip-court-hears.html) The Portsmouth woman also said she didn’t tell her mother (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rolf-harris-trial-recap-updates-3544166#ixzz3BvMPrMjT). - Daisy Ray
August 31, 2014 at 6:55 pm -
Anna’s piece also tangentially reminds me of another peculiarity of celeb accusations. Performers of mind-reading acts specialize in what are called Barnum questions. ‘Have you got a scar on your knee?’ ‘Did you have an emotionally distressing experience between the ages of 12 and 16?’ An enormous number of people will answer ‘yes’, so vindicating the mind reader’s psychic powers. With historic allegations we have what you might call the Barnum identification. Savile smelled of cigars. Cyril Smith was fat. Rolf Harris sang Two Little Boys. Well, no-one is actually going to dispute that, are they?
- Gil
September 1, 2014 at 4:31 pm -
That is very interesting. And these indisputable observations can clearly sound a bit ‘icky’. Savile smelled of cigars is an obvious assumption, but also implies you got close to him. There seems to be quite a lot of euphemistic language going on that implies more than it says, e.g. “dark side”, “hands all over me”, “dirty old man”. It’s just very surprising that a nudge, nudge, wink, wink approach could get anywhere near a courtroom. I noticed from the reports about one of these group abuse cases, not involving celebs, that one of the men accused, who reportedly killed himself without being charged, had been described by his apparently sole accuser in terms that were exactly those indisputable facts that could have been observed by anyone, including anyone seeing his photograph. So the accuser remembered him as being… [stated the obvious] + a sadistic rapist (apparently worse than any of the others accused by the same person). The accused party’s name appears online only in connection with these allegations. That is how he is remembered, at least on the internet.
- Moor Larkin
September 1, 2014 at 4:58 pm -
On the other hand, Jimmy Savile was also often remembered as smelling of alcohol and being surrounded by it in his dressing-room. Since he was a teetotaler, you have to wonder if the victims had even done basic internet research. The police evidently didn’t, otherwise Operation Yewtree would never have even sprouted.
- Gil
- Gil
September 1, 2014 at 6:39 pm -
Smelling of alcohol does sound the kind of disreputable thing a smelly cigar-smoker would do! A lot of the photos of him with the cigar also seem to show it unlit. I had wondered before how much smoking he actually did, especially if he did charity runs.
The source of one of the most graphic accusations against Savile appears to have a history of story-telling.
“The conman’s story
I am going straight now, says Wilfred De’Ath, but I have a sweet nostalgia for the many years when I lived in the grand hotels of England and France without ever paying a bill. …Swindling great hotels always struck me as, essentially, a victimless crime. …The routine was always the same. As long as you present yourself well at reception ( I am a smartly dressed, well-spoken Oxford graduate), you can get in almost anywhere…Quite often, I used a false name. My usual choice was Dr Thomas O’Meara…a world authority on the lesser poems of Thomas Hardy. This generally went down well unless, by ill chance, there was another Hardy authority staying in the hotel, in which case the manager would be anxious to bring you both together in the hotel bar. This actually happened to me in Bridport, Dorset (I was asked: “Which are your favourite poems?”), and led to me getting four months imprisonment for “deception”. Another pseudonym I sometimes used was Dr Jason Fazackerley, but that led to difficulties too…”
https://www.thecaterer.com/#/articles/305590/customer-or-thiefThere are a couple of other cases where accusers have a reported history of making up stories, including the accuser of the man who died without being charged. It is quite disturbing that people’s reputations and possibly even their will to live can be trashed in this way. Anyone, particularly men who have reached dirty old man stage, could be fair game for someone who is plausible and convincing.
- Moor Larkin
September 1, 2014 at 6:50 pm - Daisy Ray
September 2, 2014 at 5:16 pm -
Yes,I wondered whether the cigars were much more than a prop. Also I thought people didn’t smoke cigars in the same way they do cigarettes? The odour would mainly be perceptible if you’d just put one out. Surely he didn’t chain-smoke them.
Private Eye also (without giving details) described De Ath as a supplier of phony stories to newspapers. The con man turned campaigner seems to be a recurring motif. Shy Keenan admits to youthful career of fraud. Chris Fay (begetter of the Elm Guest House story) was on the fringe of a boiler room scam. Karin Ward, the Savile proto-victim,was convicted for dishonesty. Go figure.
- Moor Larkin
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