And the Winner of the 'Gammy' Award is…
For services to column inches and the newspaper industry – The Bunbury Mail, in Western Australia….
It was only a matter of time before a helpful neighbour dobbed in the couple who have outraged the Western world by taking only one of the twins born to Thai surrogate, Pattaramon Chanbua, leaving Pattaramon to care for little Gammy, her son born with Down’s syndrome. Fairfax Media have been running ‘enticements’ all week:
Finally their prayers were answered. A neighbour phoned in with the news that a Bunbury couple, David and Wendy Farnell had a ‘new baby’ in the house – could it be them?
“When I got home on Saturday night I’m sure I saw them in the driveway getting a baby carrier out of the car,” he said.
“The biological parents have not been named but the media is focusing on an address in Bunbury.”
Not just focussing, but digging through their contacts and the cuttings library to learn everything they could about this couple before they revealed all to the rest of the panting media pack.
‘Heartless pair’ – how could they have just taken just one twin and left the other with Pattaramon to live a life of penury and deprivation in a third world country, merely because he had Down’s syndrome?
Then – “Hold the front page!” – the cry went up. “Mothering Mathilda!” “Holy King Rolf!”
And in a heartbeat, without so much as a blush, the media turned about face.
David and Wendy Farnell went from being a ‘heartless pair’ into a ‘deviant pair’ and questions were asked as to how ‘heartless Pattaramon’ could possibly have handed over one of her twins to a registered sex offender and genuine paedophile.
The Supreme Court of Western Australia court documents list the 1997 charges against the man who has returned from Thailand to Bunbury, in WA’s South West, with his wife and a baby girl.
The man appeared in Bunbury court to face charges of unlawfully and indecently dealing with a child under the age of 13 years and five counts of indecently dealing with a child under the age of 13 years.
The man was given a three-year jail term, with parole, for sexually molesting two girls under the age of 10.
He had pleaded not guilty to six charges of indecently dealing with a child under 13.
The RSPCA were called in – could the couple’s dogs be in danger from this man? He had been barking for two days – was this a sign of trauma following perverted abuse, or merely a reaction to the media world now noisily camped on his doorstep?
Two days ago we were told that:
The Thai surrogate mother of the abandoned baby Gammy says she will sue the couple who left their son behind, challenging the child’s father to appear with her on television.
Two days ago we were being told of the ‘excessive’ regulation surrounding Adoption and Surrogacy in Western Australia, which led desperate couples to go to Thailand ‘where regulations were more relaxed’.
Two days ago there were hints that the Thai agency which arranged the adoption was not all it seemed to be.
Ms Kamonthip had no medical education or training before she founded the Bangkok-based company IVF Parenting in early 2013, as the largely unregulated surrogacy business began to boom in Thailand, with hundreds of couples coming from Australia to take part in commercial programs.
LinkedIn lists Ms Kamonthip as working in visa and language services before she founded the company, which advertised as specialising in surrogacy and in vitro fertilisation.
She was at Thailand’s Kasetsart University between 2002 and 2006 studying agricultural biotechnology, a collection of scientific techniques used to improve plants, animals and microorganisms.
For almost two years from 2010, Ms Kamonthip was participating in Au Pair, a program where a domestic assistant from a foreign country works for and lives as part of a family in a host country.
The Bunbury Mail was carrying the best story they could come up with at the time – that of ‘Karen’ who ‘hoped the controversy wouldn’t affect’ the ease with which childless Bunbury couples could go to Thailand and return with a happy bouncing baby. We’ll hear no more of that angle.
Now grim faced child protection officers are being photographed making fruitless visits to the house to ‘engage with the couple and discuss their suitability as prospective parents’. No one is answering the door. A tad late, one might say?
Pattaramon no longer wants to force the couple to take both babies, she wants her daughter returned to her.
“I am very worried about my baby girl. I need help from anyone who can bring my girl back to me as soon as possible … This news make me sick. I will take care of my twin babies. I will not give her or him to any family that wants a baby.”
The fund for her son’s medical treatment has now soared to over £100,000. How much will be raised to ‘rescue’ a baby girl from child abusers?
Ms Kamonthip’s web site, ivfarenting.com was taken off-line early yesterday morning.
I want to know how a registered child abuser can travel to Thailand, where the only legal adoption to transfer rights to a new ‘Father’ takes seven years, and return to Australia with a baby girl – presumably on a passport – and a media obsessed with child protection is outclassed, outsourced, and outrun, by a free advertising rag.
We shall have to watch the Bunbury Mail, currently the epicentre of media attention.
The Bunbury Mail is published each Wednesday and is distributed free to homes and businesses throughout the region to 25,500 homes.
Current advertising rates are Here.
- Moor Larkin
August 6, 2014 at 10:00 am -
Aha. The importance of being earnest about the news.
- Joe Public
August 6, 2014 at 10:39 am -
Careful that the light you shed on such varied topics doesn’t inadvertently ‘cure’ your Jaundiced View.
- Moor Larkin
August 6, 2014 at 11:34 am -
The Raccoon library introduced me to the Hollie Grieg saga, which I had never heard of via my MSM. In that regard, this latest twist does suggest that if there were an even more nefarious motivation to the Walkabout….. then it would have been the Downs baby that would have been first choice and the healthy child left behind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UndYx50rUUA
- Moor Larkin
- JimmyGiro
August 6, 2014 at 11:26 am -
The land of the boomerang… what goes around, comes around!
- Ms Mildred
August 6, 2014 at 12:08 pm -
What a fascinating story of a freebie newspaper outgunning the world media, especially on such a subject. If they weren’t so busy wrecking the lives of infirm, very elderly celebs. They might wake up to the creativity of what an alleged true paedophile might do to gain access to a prepubertal child within the family. It looks like the IVF trade and surrogacy in Thailand may now cease. They have done the world a huge service by refusing this Downs child. The clever, very well presented probing of The Bunbury Times has revealed a very sinister undercurrent of human behaviours.
- JuliaM
August 6, 2014 at 12:10 pm -
What a load of hypocritical claptrap there’s been about this entire wretched affair.
If you reduce procreation to a commodity, don’t be surprised when the normal rules that apply to commodities (refusal of goods ‘not as advertised’) start to kick in…
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 6, 2014 at 12:27 pm -
Does Pattaramon take Paypal ? THATS what interested readers want to know.
- Fat Steve
August 6, 2014 at 1:50 pm -
Spot On Julia M —As Kant said some things have a Price others have a Dignity. When everything has a price even children its unsurprising that metaphysical issues such as justice get replaced by the commodity of Law —everything seems to have a price nowadays —Banks get fined but no one is responsible, Ecclestone buys out a criminal charge —-little wonder we have a new species of Entrepreneurs anxious for some franchise or another to exploit. Could be a banking franchise or a franchise to control the banks. Gotta say to me it appears not so different than the Middle Ages when the Church took its cut by crowning kings and then took a further cut selling them indulgences.
- guthrie
August 6, 2014 at 11:21 pm -
A point of view shared by many on the left.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Duncan Disorderly
August 6, 2014 at 2:04 pm -
You could almost hear the collective smacking of lips by journalists when they discovered the man was a paedo.
- Make It Stop
August 6, 2014 at 2:06 pm -
It’s not that the dog was in danger from the man, it’s just a perfect opportunity for the RSPCA to turn up when the media are around and create an animal welfare issue. Perfect situation to garner the usual free publicity and some funds. Why, if they were worried about the welfare of the rather well padded dog, did they offer it food? er, surely that’s an abuse in itself? Perhaps someone should call the RSPCA, oh, wait
- Make It Stop
August 6, 2014 at 2:09 pm -
…and how long before this story turns into “Satanic Deviant Paedo Couple Manufacture Babies To Abuse For Local Paedo Ring” ?
..about ten minutes, probably.
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 6, 2014 at 2:49 pm -
“Satanic Deviant Paedo SMOKING Couple Manufacture Babies To Abuse For Local Paedo Ring” with the subtitle of “Pint in hand workshy pedo father enjoys a pint and a crafty fag wearing a Jimmy Savile T-shirt”
- Kevin
August 10, 2014 at 4:54 pm
- The Blocked Dwarf
- eric hardcastle
August 6, 2014 at 2:46 pm -
No laws have been broken. It’s a very gray area . Pattarmaran will never get her child back and those ” grim faced child protection officers are being photographed making fruitless visits to the house” will be told to sod off as they have no jurisdiction.
Nor is a registered ‘sex offendor” prohibited from traveling, having a family and has no need to explain themselves to anyone.
A complete beat-up and the biggest loser will be Pattarmaran who will probably find those “donations” do not eventuate after now trying to double-up, she’s put herself at risk of having her Down’s Syndrone baby removed and she’s probably earned the unenviable enmity of the toughs who run the trade.
And she probably thought it was all such a good idea at the time. - GD
August 6, 2014 at 3:58 pm -
You know what keeps striking me in this mess?
The jaw dropping human normality of Pattaramon…I bet she is a 24 carat Mum…Gammy and his step sibs are lucky to have her, and I hope her daughter is returned to her.
I know a bit about Thailand…one of my (somewhat plentiful) exes lived there for years. Poverty can be a crushing life sentence in Thailand, with few ways out. That is why so many “mail order brides” come from Thailand.
Pattaramon was a Mum already when she made the decision to provide a little better for her family by being a surrogate. She obviously had thought it through, the ways she has coped with so many unexpected turns of event shows it. Here is a newsflash…when you are a *GOOD* parent, if you get a chance to hustle £100,000 for your impoverished family and an unexpected special needs baby (treating his hole in the heart will make a huge dent in that money – no NHS in Thailand) you grab that chance with both hands and hustle for all you are worth until the chance dries up, because that is what good parents do…the best they can and examine the ethical issues after they have you all safely married off.
Pattaramon made a mistake, and I am sure she knows it. That mistake was the exact equivalent any single Mum makes when, unawares, she gets charmed into letting a convicted sex offender move in and play “Daddy” or any woman makes when she starts a family, equally unawares, with any convicted sex offender. In additional mitigation Pattaramon had another woman in the picture, the prospective mother, to reinforce and validate her choice.
“Stopping sex offenders getting surrogate babies from Thailand” is a VERY small issue compared to the other two.
NO child related sex offender should EVER be allowed to raise ANY child, under ANY circumstances…and this is what the Australian Authorities need to be checking. Simple enough to do, start with known child sex offenders, check they aren’t raising any children – how hard can that be?
- JuliaM
August 6, 2014 at 4:50 pm -
“…I bet she is a 24 carat Mum…”
All that glisters is not gold, GD. Far from it.
- GD
August 6, 2014 at 6:05 pm -
I would have no ethical problem with being an in vitro fertilised surrogate myself though I would expect to be paid for it (sorry, pregnancy is serious hard work and life disruption!). It is, when all is said and done, just another form of child minding. The only reason such a thing never crossed my mind is because, for me, pregnancy is too difficult and dangerous to be undertaken just as a job, or perhaps at all.
@JuliaM …but I bet the food, medical care and little treats you can buy for three children with that gold shine pretty brightly. Seriously, whatever the decision, “leave my kids in unnecessary, desperate, poverty when I could do something about that” is *never* the right answer – and read into that what you will.
@eric hardcastle …then the sooner somebody makes a start on changing that situation the better.
@Blocked Dwarf There was a time when I might have agreed with you, but that was before I had (as far as I know) met any serious sex offenders, since I discovered one or two by pure chance I changed my mind. One of the reasons I rule Saville out is just because he was too creepy. Child sex offenders are very unlikely to come across as repellent unless their offending relates more to a pathological need to impose control that finds outlet in anyone weaker and more vulnerable than to actual pedophillia. (The only reason you would let one of those move in with your children is because you are too afraid of him to say no!) Children are very sensitive to and far more blunt in there rejection of repellent or alarming behaviours.These days, knowing better, I would be more inclined to identify a child sex offender by how attractive and appealing his personality is, how much at ease he can put me, how important he makes me feel…not just in a sexual or romantic capacity but in any form of acquaintance. If you feel you are talking to the nicest guy you have ever met, the chances that you are talking to a child sex offender skyrocket. If the person you are talking to seems too good to be wholesome then, chances are he probably is.
It can be almost impossible to believe that the person you are looking at is really a child sex offender, as I discovered for myself from a far more detached viewpoint than romantic involvement. The “hanging jury” effect, whereby the consequences of attribution are so severe you are reluctant to attribute also plays a part.
I am sure there are plenty of people in the world who live out their lives in safety, with no more than tolerable pressure, and a reasonably free choice in everything they do…child sex offenders have a built in radar that helps them home in on the *other* people. The ones who are not safe, who are under more pressure than they can cope with, and who have few options. This is often through absolutely no fault of their own. People in unsafe situations, under too much pressure, with few options are incredibly vulnerable to anything that presents as a solution. That is part of human nature, we all have it or we would never solve any of our problems at all.
There most certainly are people who use their own children as bargaining counters to get what they want from life. There are people who will enable a child sex offender with their own conscious denial. These people are unfit parents even without involving a child sex offender. I know there are people who will knowingly offer their children as sexual toys. These people are child sex offenders in their own right…
…but the majority of people who are tricked into raising children with a child sex offender have no idea what they were getting into, or they would never have got into it.
- GD
- eric hardcastle
August 6, 2014 at 4:52 pm -
What on earth are you on about?
“Sex offenders” in their tens of 1000s all over the world are raising children including in Thailand. - The Blocked Dwarf
August 6, 2014 at 4:54 pm -
“any single Mum makes when, unawares, she gets charmed into letting a convicted sex offender move in and play “Daddy” ”
Ahh yes, sweet gullible little dears that the fairer sex are- personally I’d rate the intelligence of the average single mom a lot higher than you obviously do. I’d go as far as to say that becoming a single mom, might give one an acquired immunity to male charming. Or as one single mom put it ” there is nothing like feeling your perineum tearing to put you off sex for life”.
Sorry but any mother who doesn’t totally satisfy herself that the new daddy isn’t a ‘wrong un’ BEFORE inviting him into her children’s lives has proven herself unfit to be a mother. No matter how honey’d the words , how good the sex or the prospective security of a large bank balance. Nothing but nothing can absolve a mother (or a father for that matter) from their foremost duty to protect their children.
Can you imagine any TRUE mother having to say to an adult child “I’m so sorry dear, that ‘Daddy’ raped you every night your entire childhood, but it wasn’t my fault. I was UNAWARE and he CHARMED me”.
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 6, 2014 at 5:59 pm -
GD, upon rereading my sentence:”I’d rate the intelligence of the average single mom a lot higher than you obviously do.” was unnecessarily adhom, sorry.
- GD
August 6, 2014 at 6:15 pm -
That’s ok…I’m top 2% of ability range, and when I was a single mum plenty of guys managed to con me into plenty of things…just not that!
Looking closer I also think you misunderstood me to an extent (see long response above).
When it gets to the stage where de facto sexual abuse is happening within the home and family, yes, I agree, a person wold probably have to be blind, deaf and stupid not to notice. Fresh from discovering that one of my best friends has been buried with her sexually abusive father because of similar family denial, you are darn right I do not think anyone who would allow that is a fit parent, but I am not thinking of situations where the sex offender in question is stupid enough to overtly offend within his own home. I am thinking of the subtler damage to a child of being raised by someone who *may* sexually abuse them at any time, may well be offending elsewhere and/or has and unhealthily relationship with and attitude to them that perceives them to be a sexual objective that stops short of actual sexual offence.
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 6, 2014 at 6:50 pm -
GD, I find it hard to disagree with much you have written in your longer post (your feelings on Savile mirror my own, only the ‘Child Catcher’ was creepier in my opinion) and going by my own experience with Child Sex Offenders/Paedophiles I can confirm that ,after the true Sociopath, no one is more charming than a paedophile. Also I can confirm , if any were necessary, that paedophiles have a built in radar for “broken” single mothers. But nothing you have said can absolve any mother, however ‘broken’, from satisfying themselves (and preferably their own parents too) that the New Daddy is a safe bet.
” I am thinking of the subtler damage to a child of being raised by someone who *may* sexually abuse them at any time” is a very interesting point and often overlooked, knowing as I do, that an ‘atmosphere of abuse’ can wreak havoc but I feel I should point out that pretty much every male (or female) is capable of sexually abusing a child. Paedophiles may be born with their sexuality hardwired but monsters are MADE.Made by Us. Society, family, friends (and in the case of a lot of the Abusers, their own mothers).
- GD
August 6, 2014 at 8:33 pm -
…and not every single mother has parents worthy of satisfying y’know…
However hard we try to protect ourselves, relationships are still a lottery where those with meas rea have a better chance of clearing all safe checks than anyone else, because the honest, honourable man is stuck with one version of all truths however implausible, while the dishonourable can pick and choose the most creditable and convincing lies.
Generally abusive tendencies are a lot easier to spot than criminal paedophilia (being attracted to children but determining to contain that, for life, is not abuse, it is honour…but perhaps not the best kind of honour to get married to?). I was a sex worker for years and, of there is a way to pick out markers for paedophile tendencies from among all the other markers present in male sexuality, I do not know what it is. I do not believe every male/female is capable of sexually abusing a child either…not through “nobility” of any kind, but because the majority of us are too deeply programmed to be incapable of arousal in connection with a child…so what would be the point?
If that conditioning has been disrupted and reprogrammed in childhood that may become another matter. Monsters can, indeed be *made* but, once made they do not set out to do whatever you, I, or even they, feel to be monstrous…instead, they do whatever it is they feel like doing, without concern for the incidental harm. No matter how much of a monster a person is, if he is not sexually attracted to children he will not sexually abuse them, not “because it is wrong” but rather “because he doesn’t feel like it”.
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 6, 2014 at 9:26 pm -
” I do not believe every male/female is capable of sexually abusing a child either…not through “nobility” of any kind, but because the majority of us are too deeply programmed to be incapable of arousal in connection with a child”
Programming can be overcome or rewritten. I’ve even known of Paedophiles who claim to have had no inkling of their own desires until something happened , until their niece sat on their lap or whatever. A friend of mine, who rode the China White Express outta here long back, started living with a ‘broken,broke & on the game’ single mom and her 2 kids. Boy and Girl. One day the girl was in the bath and my mate went into the bathroom to have a piss. This was 20 odd years ago and was pretty much normal behaviour in families that had their toilet in the bathroom. While he was urinating, the little girl, who was maybe 7(?), piped up and asked him ‘do I have to suck it?’…it being his penis.
My friend froze in mid-piss and assured her that that wasn’t necessary etc. Whole sordid story came out that ‘Real’ Dad had been abusing the girl and the boy. Heartbreaking but nothing anyone here, I expect, would be overly surprised about.
What WAS surprising to my friend and me was how the incident effected him. He swore on everything he held scared that he had never had a thought about sex with a child before….and as he came from a time,place and social class that considered a ‘nonce’ below every line anyone might draw..I believed him. He started to see that 7 year old girl kneeling in the bath looking at his penis with ‘that’ look on her face in his dreams. He started to watch her walk around the flat in her vest and days-of-the-week knickers in the morning. AFAIK he never acted on his impulses and he died shortly after. Maybe he was lying to himself and me but he’s not the only ‘case’ I’ve come across.
- GD
August 6, 2014 at 9:56 pm -
@anna Thank you…for I have surely lived that…
@blocked dwarf Sexuality is a spectrum, we are all somewhere on it, but sometimes we do not discover exactly where until we are in a position to find out. I am so sorry your friend found himself in that position at all. However he may have suffered a kind of shock reaction whereby we perversely, and often quite unconsciously, strive to embrace aspects of the thing that horrifies us to lessen the impact that we could not otherwise handle? We will never know.But let me say something. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing remotely normal about an adult, and particularly a man urinating while a small child is in the bath beside them, nor about a 7 year old child walking around in vest and pants…
It could be that the mother knew no different and just accepted it as a norm from the abusive father, as your friend, in turn, accepted the practice from her, but it is definitely not “normal”.
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 7, 2014 at 8:19 am -
“shock reaction whereby we perversely, and often quite unconsciously, strive to embrace aspects of the thing that horrifies us to lessen the impact that we could not otherwise handle? ”
That comes pretty close to the ‘diagnose’ that I suggested to him at the time, although mine was expressed in biblical terms (I was studying for the priesthood at the time) and much much coarser language. As you say, we will never know, but I sometimes wonder if his ‘golden shot’ a couple of years later had something, in part, to do with his trying to cope with his new-found desires.
” nothing remotely normal about an adult”
You know, I have recounted this anecdote several times over the years since, both online and IRL. And I remember around 2004 being the first time that a listener/reader ‘picked me up’ on those points. For several years it was only Americans who seemed to be troubled by those details . “Norms” seem to change and I recall how shocked I was about 4 years ago when I saw parents letting their 4-7ish girls run around naked on our local beach, yet 20 years ago I know that the “Nudist Children On The Beach” glossy mags on open display at every newsagent didn’t ‘bother’ me or anyone else..much.
- Moor Larkin
August 7, 2014 at 10:22 am -
@ 20 years ago I know that the “Nudist Children On The Beach” glossy mags on open display at every newsagent didn’t ‘bother’ me or anyone else @
This probably relates to the fact that the general mass of society did not view children in any sexual manner – this notion was even less likely in the 1970’s I would say. The sexualisation of recent Anglo-American society is a noted societal force and it has been often driven by mothers sexualising their daughters – the bra for little girls being sold in the major UK clothing stores was a minor scandal not so many years ago. I suspect that what afflicted your friend in part, was the inability to deal with “ideas put into his head”. Censorship generally relies on maintaining a well-intentioned innocent ignorance and the removal of all censorship in the last decades has left a big dilemma at the heart of Anglo-culture-based society. Our post-Victorian association of human nudity with sexual activity seems to be a difficult social more to shift. Societies that have always been less repressive about nakedness seem to have far less angst and no paedo-panic. The advent of topless bathing in the 1980’s suggested we were beginning to get over it. I witnessed no raping of topless women by crazed erectile males on the Spanish beaches at the time for instance. One deep-seated problem of this return of the idea that naked children are “shocking” is the connection of that “shock” being linked to “sex”. The worm is in your own head.
- eric hardcastle
August 7, 2014 at 11:04 am -
Numerous family beaches in the South of France are still nudist & packed to the rafters with 1000s of sunbathers which shocked prudish me once when visiting a friend.
I would think any amount of ‘pedos’ ware wandering up and down which doesn’t seem to bother the French although the may take umbrage if a camera appeared. - GD
August 7, 2014 at 11:23 am -
@Moor – As you mention Spanish Beaches and societal change, I must point out that the only time my own mother was arrested was for showing bare arms on a Spanish beach.
@blocked dwarf I am pretty old now, and I honestly cannot recall a time when it would be deemed “ok” to show adult genitals and urinate around a child. It is also quite hard, and even painful, to urinate with an audience!But I do feel for your poor departed friend, whatever the truth of it, he had done, and intended, no wrong, and that is all that matters.
- Moor Larkin
August 7, 2014 at 11:42 am -
@GD
My first visit to Portugal in….. 1980? My partner at the time was topless on the sand. Further up the beach were four local elderly women, dressed entirely in black with headscarves and calf-length skirts.I think urination for men is a far less flambuoyant activity that you seem to imagine. We don’t even need to take down our trousers… I have more than once experienced fathers recently bringing their very young daughters into the Gents with them, presumably because they are so frightened by the current paedo-panic that they are now afraid to leave the girls outside alone, and there we all are, urinating…. Absurd isn’t it….
- Moor Larkin
- The Blocked Dwarf
- GD
- eric hardcastle
August 7, 2014 at 2:53 am -
You are making wild sweeping claims that may or may not apply in this case.
As for a “sex offender” bringing up a family- the man in question already has with his anonymous son speaking out to defend his father.
As for imparting a Mother of The Year Award on the Thai lady, perhaps criteria has changed. Breeding children to sell off for profit in the ludicrous claim they are being somehow noble by feeding their other children (sex advice is taught in Thailand and contraception is readily available, one of the few things that are) sounds a bit more like Babies for Profit to me with the mum an active participant.And remember this Mum of The Year’s main complaint was that she was saddled with what she seemed to think was the ‘dud’ with the couple only taking the best twin. Now she seems to have warmed to the theme of saintly motherhood as the media craft the tale to paint her as a victim of circumstances- and the idea that more $$$ may flow in.
Basically none of us know what went on here but it’s not too difficult to see the basics : an Aussie couple took advantage of loopholes in surrogacy law in Thailand & Australia.
The surrogate mother by her statements was pissed off as she says she was stuck with one of the twins.
The idea that any Thai would be concerned about anyone’s criminal past is a fantasy.
The man’s offenses happened in the 90s and there was no “child protection register” ( another media invention is the label “sex offender”) so he’s not any list and has all the same rights as everyone else.
Child protection officers visiting him or trying to make contact will be doing so only because they would be howled down by the media if they didn’t.While politicians most likely will jump as the media tells them to and pass some sort of law to prevent a similar situation it cannot be retroactive.
I repeat : I predict the biggest loser in this will be the Thai surrogate mum – I know enough about Thai society- she will be shunned by those around her for bringing an unwelcome spotlight in them (although if they all benefit financially that may change).
These are the realities.- The Blocked Dwarf
August 7, 2014 at 10:38 am -
@ Moor “The worm is in your own head.”
Indeed, or as I expressed to him back then ‘a demon crouching at the doorway’ (like I said, I was studying to enter the clergy)
- Moor Larkin
August 7, 2014 at 10:59 am -
One of the main problems linked to the current junking of the reasoning powers of people in the UK, is that folk are being (willingly) deceived that Humans are born as some kind of Godly perfection and then corrupted, whereas in fact we are all born with the corruption inbuilt (Original Sin if you like) and it is only our ability to reason that makes us capable of pursuing the goal of “Godly” perfection as we grown from being powerless children into more powerful adults.
- Moor Larkin
- GD
August 7, 2014 at 11:37 am -
@eric hardcastle I don’t think it is me making “wild sweeping claims” here.
Are you seriously suggesting there is something “noble” about leaving one’s children to go without food in the kind of economically polarised society that exists in Thailand? (In Thailand, unless one lives in significant poverty, a state you should try some time before you judge others, the money from a surrogacy would be too little to serve as an inducememt)
Are you also suggesting that just because they are Thai people are in some way different to the rest of us in not caring about the criminal past of people they hand over a child to? Or did you mean more generally? Either way that is simple and baseless racism.
I would have thought it was quite normal to be pissed off when people reject a child one has an interest in because they are Downs, and twice pissed off when one is left “holding the baby” we had not planned for…but that does not mean one does not love and intend to care for that child.
I do not know one single thing about Thai society that suggests she will be shunned by any, let alone all, around her except those who shunned her for the surrogacy in the first place (Thai people even hold OPINIONS).
- The Blocked Dwarf
August 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm -
@GD “I am pretty old now, and I honestly cannot recall a time when it would be deemed “ok” to show adult genitals and urinate around a child”
If Mater was arrested for the wanton public display of her *shock* *horror* NAKED arms then I’ll accept that that ‘pretty old’ might be accurate, although your ‘tone’ belies it (yes I think that might have been a compliment). I think , as ever, the devil is in the detail or degree or intent. If an adult man/Dad had requested/told his little girl to watch him piss, front on, then that would have been ‘wrong’. No discussion necessary. But to stand side on/with his back to the bath and assuming , as Dad’s do, that his little girl has far more interesting things to look at than the back of his jeans…?
And let us not forget that pretty much every joint toilet/bathroom suite ever has placed the toilet to the side of the bath’s tap end (for plumbing reasons) and any child sitting in the bath would not see much genitalia, without- as was in my friend’s case- the child making a conscious effort to. Thank you for the kind words about my friend, you would despair how some people react when I tell them his story….especially when I tell them that he was also an ‘uncle’ (ie a parentally designated Trusted Adult) to my own kids.
- eric hardcastle
August 11, 2014 at 6:00 am -
I’m talking about reality, not the world as you may think it should be.
No I am not suggesting Thais are different to us.
I’m saying they are different to us, a fact westerners, especially the bloody Brits who move their on their pensions can’t get their frigging heads around.
Reality is the Thai people & government care not a jot about a person’s past which is why it’s the Asian country of choice if you have a less than stellar past.
If you do not understand that Buddhism is a real religion that seeps into to all Thai life then you haven’t been taking notice.
## quite apart from your apparent desire to have people punished permanently for their past sins- which is exactly what you seem to be demanding.Prostitution is against the law in Thailand. Families regularly send their sons & daughters to large centres like Bangkok & Pattaya to work in the neon lit bordellos so they can send money home.It’s not unusual for a father to allow his son to become a “go go boy” in Pattaya where he may himself have once worked.
It’s not unusual for a young woman or man to have a farang sponsor who they sleep with and receive gifts from (even giving a gift in Thailand can be deemed a prostitution offense) and at the same time have a wife or husband and family who they leave for short times so they can stay with that sponsor.My amazing predictive powers have not failed : Australia passing laws and Thailand “tightening up” (which means little there.
I still have sympathy for the mother : she is being used by Western media in a way she has no control over and as always – the true story is turning out to be something different.
- The Blocked Dwarf
- The Blocked Dwarf
- The Blocked Dwarf
- GD
- The Blocked Dwarf
- GD
- The Blocked Dwarf
- Moor Larkin
August 6, 2014 at 6:52 pm -
After Thailand’s military government reviewed 12 Thai IVF clinics involved in surrogacy cases they have announced new laws.
Surrogacy is now only recognised in Thailand if:
The intended parents are a heterosexual married couple who are medically infertile.
The surrogacy is altruistic.
The surrogate is a blood relative.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2717364/Australian-parents-Gammy-met-Chinese-mail-order-bride-agency.html
These new laws will now exclude almost every Australian from pursuing surrogacy in Thailand.- eric hardcastle
August 11, 2014 at 6:03 am -
And note- no mention of a “criminal past” despite GD’s desire that anyone who has committed a crime in the past and paid the penalty as prescribed by law, be permanently denied the rights that everyone else is entitled to.
- eric hardcastle
- Moor Larkin
August 6, 2014 at 11:12 pm -
@ NO child related sex offender should EVER be allowed to raise ANY child, under ANY circumstances @
This must lead inexorably to the logic that ALL sex offenders must be compulsorily sterilised, in an irreversible manner, because if they are not to be allowed to look after their own children, then it would be irresponsible to allow them to reproduce at all (even in secret with some silly man or woman who doesn’t know their own mind).
- Kevin
August 10, 2014 at 4:57 pm -
“…no NHS in Thailand”
True! The public health system in Thailand is far better (and cheaper – less than 50p for the needed operation)
- JuliaM
- JimS
August 6, 2014 at 6:31 pm -
Not an ‘epicentre’, please!
- Carol42
August 6, 2014 at 7:59 pm -
I will be interested in hearing the whole story about this as there seem to be an awful lot of contradictions at the moment. Time for some DNA tests I think.
- Mudplugger
August 6, 2014 at 9:14 pm -
A few IQ tests amongst all the participants and reporters wouldn’t go amiss too – any results in single digits will probably be limited to the press.
- Carol42
August 6, 2014 at 9:26 pm -
True, to think I used to believe most of what I read in the press until I read about a case I actually knew a lot about. Now I believe nothing I read in the MSM.
- Moor Larkin
August 6, 2014 at 11:17 pm -
I still haven’t grasped a fundamental in this particular case. Is this “surrogate” the actual biological mother, or was she just implanted by the Farrell’s fertilised eggs? I cannot quite see how she was left holding the baby if the latter were the case. Surely it would have been the responsibility of the Clinic and nothing to do with her at all.
- Moor Larkin
- Carol42
- Mudplugger
- Rightwinggit
August 7, 2014 at 12:48 am -
Did the Thai tart have bottled, or draught?
- Don Cox
August 7, 2014 at 12:08 pm -
Meanwhile the Syrian government is still dropping barrel bombs on families (270,000 deaths in the conflict so far) and the Islamic State is enacting a genocide of Yezidis.
I suppose it is not so easy for reporters and the RSPCA to camp out on doorsteps in Syria and Iraq.
- Dioclese
August 7, 2014 at 6:21 pm -
At no point do I note that the couple spoken of is. in fact, the right couple. Pure speculation?
It is a sad state that society has sunk this low. IMHO surrogacy should be banned world wide.
Also seems to me that the Thai girl in question has done rather well out of it all.
- eric hardcastle
August 9, 2014 at 12:05 pm -
About 50 Australian couples’ dreams of having surrogate children shattered as Thailand closes major IVF centre.
http://ow.ly/A8A8G
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