We have a feral underclass. It is a statement many bloggers make daily – but we do not think too deeply about it. We don’t go out in the morning, leave food out for the cat, drop our kids off at child care – and then walk into the feral lair.

We talk of the morons with “cut here” tattooed on their neck – we don’t invite them into our car ‘to answer questions’.

We avoid dangerous areas. We don’t walk up to empty council houses in the full knowledge that the local community are well aware that a double murderer, a drug dealer and armed criminal, a man given to lobbing hand grenades at those who offend him, is hiding somewhere in the area.

Today, tonight, in the dark of the night, after two police women were blown to smithereens, other police will be clocking onto duty; understaffed, under equipped, underpaid, under appreciated, and walking back into that feral lair – on our behalf.

They will be doing more than just walking back into the lair. They will be in Hyde Police station addressing Dale Cregan as “Mr Cregan”; they will make sure he has a cup of tea at regular intervals; when his solicitor says he is tired, they will stop the interview, call it a day; they won’t kick his other eye out, though who could blame them if they wanted to behave as the Thai police did; they will keep their temper, aware that the IPCC will monitor their every utterance, their every move. They will do that even as they mourn their colleagues – some may even have to miss the funeral to ensure Dale Cregan’s safety.

For Dale Cregan will be in full possession of his ‘uman rites’. Why do you think he gave himself up  – a sudden fit of conscience? Perchance he didn’t fancy spending a couple of weeks sleeping in a drainage ditch, with a failed footballer and a cold Chinese for company. He knew the safest place for him was right in the heart of ‘those murderous scum’ that he so detests. He knew he could rely upon their professionalism to keep him safe. We ask too much of these men and women.

It makes no difference that those two officers were women. They were not killed because they were women, but because they represent ‘the enemy’ to a feral sub-culture. There is a war out there, one that has become so mundane to the media that most of us were unaware that life in Manchester included hand grenades being lobbed around and double murderers on the loose.

We are shocked – and supportive – when the army suffers deaths from the people they are supposed to be helping. Yet there is a sector of the Internet that is happy to label all police as scum – and thus foster the belief that whatever happens to them, they deserve it. They don’t.

These are ordinary men and women, doing a job. Without their painstaking efforts day after day, we will all find ourself living in a land ruled by the increasingly violent feral under class.

I feel for the ordinary men and women who have to live in an area like Hyde. Who have to live cheek by jowl with the likes of Dale Cregan. Though they can at least keep their heads down, avoid the pubs that the likes of Cregan frequent, and try to stay out of trouble.

Not so the Police. They, men and women, have to engage with the Cregan’s on a daily basis. Two young girls, answering a call regarding a suspected burglary, an empty house, nothing of value could have been taken, but there are targets for answering calls from members of the public, and they must be met. They could have been ‘meeting targets’ in a call centre, but they weren’t. In return, they were not just shot, but blown up.

Theresa May thinks that the ‘family’, as they were described tonight by Ian Hanson, their federation representative, can be replaced by civilians. That their pay can be compared to that of other civil servants. That their pensions can be slashed and self funded. That they are mere objects, pawns to be moved around the Crown board.

How many of you noticed the news yesterday about Mark Duggan – you remember him? We paid for his maudlin, over blown funeral; we paid for the damage left by rioters ‘outraged’ at the ‘lack of respect’ shown to him by Police. How many of you noticed that YES, he did have a loaded gun. You could be forgiven for missing that, buried as a footnote in the very papers that announced with glee the ‘findings’ of the IPCC that the murderous scum had shot an ‘unarmed man’.

How many of you can quote verbatim the number of police officers who were encouraged to change their statements after the HIllsborough tragedy? The Internet is overflowing with experts on the times the Police do get it wrong. Make no mistake, the finest legal brains will be employed to ensure that it ‘was all the fault of the Police’. Anyone who points out that the police – 164 of them, to ensure the safety of those who want to watch a few millionaires kick a pig’s bladder around! – would not have been there were it not for the drunken antics of the feral supporters of those teams; that there would have been no wire fences to be crushed against, were it not for the drunken Stanley knife wielding habits of so-called ‘fans’ – will be shouted down, hounded and intimidated, or at least pathetic efforts will be made to intimidate…

Now how many of you can quote the number of ‘murderous scum’ who have been shot because they were wearing a police uniform.

It’s 69, since you ask.

Or ‘Only 69′ according to Sky News. They include David Rathbone (sic) according to the pot smoking poofter of a ‘former senior policeman’ rolled out to comment on Sky News. It’s Rathband. RathBAND. The least you could do is get his name right. Pillock, Paddick, whatever your name is.

I had to stop writing this last night, Martin Brunt on Sky so enraged me fretting that Cregan ‘might not get a fair trial’ owing to the heartfelt and emotional comments of the Manchester Chief Constable who had just lost a ‘bubbly’ 23 year old, and a ‘shy’ 32 year old from his force. Who had had to explain how it could have happened to that young girl’s fiancée, and the families of both officers. Who had had to talk to other young officers, off for the night to see if they could find the murderous Cregan’s accomplices in the shady cracks and crevices of Mottram’s feral backside. They’ll have a stick of wood and a stab proof vest – and the remains of a pension – to give them courage.

Dear God, give me strength.

They deserve better, much better. Before we find out what life would be like without them.

matt September 21, 2012 at 13:33

What a load of ovaries !!

Matt September 20, 2012 at 21:19

“The police are more thinly stretched than ever, after Goverment (sic) cut
backs.”
I’ve been watching the TV news today, and generally it has been 8
of the boys in yellow standing around in the background guarding patches of
pavement.

Thinly stretched ??
But I suppose they were at that important stage of
any murder investigation called “getting the overtime in” which often involves
crawling in line abreast doing a finger tip search.

Frankie September 20, 2012 at 23:47

And why, do you imagine are they are there? Two of their colleagues have
been brutally slain. I should think that overtime is the very last thing on
their minds. I am sure you do realise that they have been sent there for a
purpose – and that ‘patch of pavement’ may contain vital forensic evidence.
Do not forget that this evil scumbag may plead not guilty to the murders…
Given the comments of the Chief Constable of GMP on the day of the shooting
and other sensationalist reporting I would say he may claim that his right
to a fair trial was severely prejudiced.

I hope you are never in the position of having a friend/work colleague
die like this. Shame on you.

Consider that there is a national voluntary campaign for serving officers
to go to GMP on the day of the funeral and take over from the GMP
colleagues, to free them up to pay their respects. I hope it will come
off.

Rory September 20, 2012 at 18:32

Regarding Bill Lewsey. I know Bill, he has a hatred of any sort of
authority and has stated on one forum that he frequents that “Rory is biased
having a bent copper as a brother and I have always maintained that ALL
coppers are legitimate targets to criminals and your brother IS bent” I used
to regard him as a friend but no longer. Please ignore him and let him craw
back under the bridge from which he cam.

Frankie September 20, 2012 at 19:01

Obviously ‘Bill’ has a few issues… poor chap. There were more tributes
paid to these two excellent young people today – like the fact that they
went the extra mile to care about victims of crime. Saddening to think that
in snuffing out these two lives that evil scumbag has focussed his murderous
attentions on two genuinely special people, whose passing will be mourned by
many, especially in the community where they worked.

Dan T September 20, 2012 at 18:23

“pot smoking poofter of a ‘former senior policeman’”~Really Anna?

I don’t care to insult people for being gay or for liking a smoke, but it’s
your blog. However Brian Paddick is a former senior policeman, no need for the
quotation marks.

What I’m really here to ask, is do you have anything to say about your old
mate Dr. Rohen Kapur being the PPC for the Young People’s Party at the Corby
by-election? http://yppuk.blogspot.co.uk/

Woman on a
Raft September 21, 2012 at 14:40

He’s getting a bit long in the tooth for that by now, surely?

Kincaid September 20, 2012 at 14:38

Ok, this bloke is a (name your own poison) because we already “know” he’s
guilty, but HOW do we know and do we REALLY know and does it actually matter?
If you were arrested for this crime, it would obviously be because someone
made a mistake and you’d be the first to insist that you’re treated as you
expect to be, not as a convicted (of this crime) criminal/murderer.

When we start convicting and mistreating people simply because we either
knew the victim(s) or because we BELIEVE someone to be guilty, we’re jamming
the thin end of the wedge up someone’s arse and it won’t always be a guilty
arse. Remember Dereck Bentley?

m.barnes September 20, 2012 at 16:04

Fair enough – Innocent until proven guilty. It is entirely possible he
was stitched up by someone else and gave himself up to make that very point.
But he’s still a loser a) For getting in a fight with Thai police – he was
always going to come off second best in that one b) for putting a black
glass eye in – that’s school-boy ‘I’m a hardcase I am’ stuff.
And while I
snort at the ludicrous posing I in no way underestimate what a complete
nutter any criminal lobbing grenades around is – whether it is this
particular gentleman or not.

m.barnes September 20, 2012 at 14:09

On Tuesday morning I was walking back from dropping my little person off at
pre-school when I saw 2 policemen running a speed check on cars coming down
the road. It’s a 30mph road, connected to a 50mph road and dead straight so
drivers bomb along it at 40-50mph; ignoring the speed signs and the school
sign and the flashing ‘slow down’ sign. As a parent I am more than aware that
the biggest threat to my child’s life is the car. I smiled at the 2 policemen
and as I walked past laughed that it would be great if they could arrange to
be there twice a day every day and gosh how those cars were suddenly slowing
down.
This was one of goodness knows how many ordinary encounters members
of the public had that day with the Police.
Those two manchester police
officers were going about their ordinary day as well; maybe they would have
been shouted at, maybe sworn at – or maybe someone would have smiled with
relief that they were there. Instead they met some one-eyed loser with a black
glass eye (really??? how pathetic is that), a gun and a grenade and an
adolescent desire for notority lethally combined with a ‘nothing to lose’
future and a homicidal past. It was just a terrible thing to happen. I am
sorry for their family’s and colleagues loss.
The Police operate with the
consent of the public and need the public to help them do their job – by
bearing witness, reporting crimes, obeying laws. If anyone on here has a
problem with a law see a politician, they’re the ones that make them – and we
elect them. So take a bit of responsibility yourselves and stop bleating about
traffic cops. I have lived in countries where calling the police is considered
BAD idea and the UK has a good police force. Not perfect, things will go wrong
but a lot better than we realise. They do a bloody difficult job that none of
us wants to do and get small thanks for it.
To Frankie and The Other
Frankie – informative and interesting comments as ever (squaditis – need to
remember that one).

Anna
Raccoon September 20, 2012 at
15:25

m.barnes,

“The Police operate with the consent of the public” – some of the public,
the likes of Cregan are never going to consent to be policed.

m.barnes
September 20, 2012 at 15:58

And that is why we need a Police force – for those people who refuse to
abide by laws agreed by the majority. Police work in partnership with
citizens – and that means we all have a role to play in making our society
as orderly as it can be. As ever his Monkness has beat me to it, with
greater clarity:
‘In that sense the Police are as they were conceived
to be, in an act of extraordinary constitutional genius. They are, or
should not be, an armed force telling the public what to do, but rather an
organised arm of the public itself.’

Louise September
20, 2012 at 13:20

http://www.policememorial.org.uk/index.php?page=roll-of-honour

jaded September 19, 2012 at 21:25

A very accurate and compelling post.
At my station today we didn’t even
talk about this shooting.Not sure why but it wasn’t out of disrespect for the
two colleagues.Personally it was probably because “i’m glad it wasn’t me”.

Bill Lewsey September 19, 2012 at 20:57

69 coppers shot? Over what time period? Since the start of the Bow Street
Runners? or since the 60′s? Without that information the figure of 69 is
meaningless drivel.

Dave H September 19, 2012 at 17:50

I would be concerned about him getting a fair trial, but only because
otherwise he might then be able to waste a lot of time and money challenging
the verdict.

Frankie September 19, 2012 at 18:26

He will get the best defence that criminal legal aid can provide… we, as
taxpayers, can be sure of that!

In addition, if properly convicted, he can spend the rest of his
miserable life, living at our expense, care of HMP Service.

Cost to the taxpayer, about £64,042 per annum for a Category A prisoner
(2012 price)

He is staying true to type. Feckless scum, supported by taxpayers from
birth until death.

minktulip September 19, 2012 at 15:08

A horrible murder and dreadful tragedy. But the sad fact is that the police
themselves have chosen to forget that they were created to assist (not
replace) the law abiding against criminals. They are now an appendage of the
intelligentsia, aiding in the task of remaking society. Consider what the
police will do to you if you defend yourself during a home invasion. Or what
your chances are of a rescue in a dangerous situation (health and safety). Or
who will be knocking on your door if you say the wrong thing.

Frankie September 19, 2012 at 18:21

“…Consider what the police will do to you if you defend yourself during a
home invasion.”

Nothing, apparently, if it was in genuine self-defence. See below:

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2012/09/04/two-men-charged-over-farm-break-in/

and:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-127513/Farmer-shot-intruder-walks-free.html

“…what your chances are of a rescue in a dangerous situation”. Pretty
good, actually!

The police are more thinly stretched than ever, after Goverment cut
backs. It will, undoubtedly, get worse. Does this sad fact justify two
officers, responding to the very type of incident you refer to being shot
repeatedly and then grenaded? Of course not. I am sure that no one joins the
police to deliver a poor service… sometimes the boys and girls in blue are
hamstrung by other forces beyond their control, like Government pencil
pushers.

binao September 19, 2012 at 21:56

All good points except ‘thinly stretched’. Where are they? What are
they doing?
OK so the numbers may have dropped a tad from the one in
500/550 of the total English population being policemen, excluding PCSOs
and civvies. That would be two for the estate of about 400 homes where I
live.
Mycalcs suggest my village of 6500+ people pays for directly and
indirectly about 10 + policemen and all associated costs. First our police
station was shut then we became a de facto unpoliced area. We now, after
MP intervention have a damn good PCSO and I’m told a policeman.
It may
be that there are a lot of policemen and women doing much more important
things than dealing with drugdealing, antisocial behaviour and the rural
curse of the motorcycle racers.
Tell me what and I might
understand.

Bob S September 19, 2012 at 23:14

“Where are they? What are they doing?”

If there is a three shift system to cover a 24 hour period it will
need four teams to provide the cover needed. One team will cover the
early shift, onbe the late shift and one the night shift. One team will
be on a day off. If you have 25 officers on one team then at any one
time you will have 75 officers off duty out of the 100 needed to provide
the manpower to cover the four teams.

With me so far?

Now throw in annual leave, mandatory training, going to court and
being off through illness/injury. The numbers on the front line start to
dwindle even more. There may be 130000 police officers in the UK but
they are not on duty at the same time. Please tell me you realised
that.

binao
September 20, 2012 at 09:03

Of course, Bob, thanks, completely with you. I’m well aware of the
implications of shifts and training, court, sickness, holidays; I’ve
worked in, and run 24/7 businesses. Still don’t buy it, those aren’t
new demands on staff.
No criticism of the staff- and Frankie may
well be right about squaditis.
Our community is fairly quiet at
present, which based on past experience means ripe for resources to be
removed again.
The problem is then getting re engagement when
needed.

Frankie
September 19, 2012 at 23:18

I do not know the precise diagnosis to be applied to your particular
circumstances but… It is probable that your local force is suffering
from a dread disease, that affects police forces up and down the land.
‘Squaditis’ (I do not know the Latin for this condition) is an
affliction where an area that is perfectly well resourced in terms of
police numbers is suddenly, and inexplicably denuded of its front line
officers…

To where, you may ask, have these brave souls been sent? Well… they
are now part of a ‘squad’ – hence the term introduced to you a couple of
lines ago. These officers will now be deployed in a specific role,
perhaps in plainclothes, perhaps in numerically large multiples or
‘serials’ or ‘units’ with instructions, perhaps to work primarily
between the hours of ‘X’ and ‘Y’ in ‘Z’ area, to disrupt the following…
You get the picture.

In my neck of the woods it is the same – a focus on gun
crime/organised crime has meant that resources are moved to the areas
where these problems are prevalent.

The other
Frankie September 19, 2012 at
23:28

I was going to answer this one but I see my namesake has already
done it. You wrote pretty much what I would have written
anyway…..spooky.

Do you perchance comment on a certain well read police blog? I
thought I was going mad yesterday as I had no recollection of posting
what I was reading….:-)

Frankie
September 20, 2012 at 00:51

You are correct, I did contribute! I probably said the same thing
there that you would have said, and saved you the effort, given that
we are probably some weird form of twin, or linked by strange
telepathic powers.

Today, I thought it was my advancing years playing tricks when I
‘tuned in’ to AnnaRaccoon, but all is well… Not bound for the funny
farm… I hope!

JuliaM September 20, 2012 at 05:30

“Nothing, apparently, if it was in genuine self-defence.”

No, not ‘nothing’. In both those cases, they were arrested (thus having
their DNA retained, facing visa problems and CRB check issues in the
future, to say nothing of the shame and embarrassment that – as decent,
law-abiding people – would feel. One even went to trial, so the feeble
‘nothing’ you refer to is thanks to the jury.

Too many cops now see their job as a tick-box, crime-processing task,
they don’t have – and don’t WANT – discretion to do anything else.

Frankie
September 20, 2012 at 18:55

@Julia: So… as you seem to have all the answers, what should the
police do instead? Do nothing, perhaps.

Not really a solution in today’s litigious society. The police would
be duty bound to investigate the circumstances of such an incident and
present their findings to the CPS, who hold the decision whether there
is sufficient evidence/in the public interest to charge the person. You
know this, as a seasoned campaigner.

Any discretion tthe police once enjoyed has been largely ‘managed
out’ of the system, by the very pencil pushers I have mentioned
elsewhere. Despite their protestations, the ‘powers that be’ love their
statistics.

By ‘nothing’ in this context I meant no ‘bird’ ‘chokey’ ‘porridge’…
When you pull the trigger on someone – as a private citizen employing
potentially lethal force I think you could reasonably expect the police
to look into the circumstances in which you did so.

LJH September 19, 2012 at 14:13

I wish the Chief Constable, in eulogizing those two unfortunate
policewomen, had emphasised their professional qualities, their sense of duty
to preserving the community from violence and lawlessness rather than their
“chattiness” or “shyness”. Making the police sound cuddly does not inspire
fear among the feral class. Tributes to their personal qualities should be the
domain of their bereaved families not the force leader. Confidence in the
police comes from demonstrating determination to uphold the law : they were
killed in the line of duty, that is what should be emphasised,to remind us of
the dedicated, honest and professional men and women tarnished by the
Hillsborough coverup.

JuliaM September
19, 2012 at 15:36

I wish they’d stop emphasising their femininity, too, as if that meant
their deaths were somehow more awful. It’s 2012, FFS!

Frankie September 19, 2012 at 18:07

I agree Julia: They should not focus on the fact that they were female
but… perhaps it is the ‘inner caveman’ within some of us but I believe the
majority of people do actually feel that for two young women to die in
these appalling circumstances is even worse. Call it hundreds of years of
patronising the female gender, call it out of place, but I believe it is
done with the best of intentions, however unhelpful and out of place it is
in 2012.

Woman on
a Raft September 19, 2012 at
21:54

Bit harsh. The police were clearly grief-stricken about more than just
the uniform and wished to emphasize that the people killed (I’m being
careful with words to avoid giving the defence any excuse to shout that
they can’t get a fair trial) were precisely that – individuals with
personalities, dreams, hopes, aspirations, friends, families, foibles,
potential, ways of joking, favourite foods, pets, hobbies, things which
made them sad, each unique in all the universe and all recorded history,
and not limited to just the definition imposed by their jobs.

I don’t think they would have been described any less well if they had
happened to be male. It’s part of what they were and nothing, especially
not a killer, should be allowed to reduce them to ciphers for the
institution.

Spudgun September 20, 2012 at 03:29

Yes, it’s 2012 FFS! Maybe you had forgotten that women are equal and
also special?

Louise September 20, 2012 at 15:29

Indeed. Bullets and grenades tend not to discriminate.

Franki September 19, 2012 at 14:04

Rarely, if ever do I disagree with our esteemed landlady.

An excellent post, Anna. Feral scum, such as the creature currently in
custody for this horrific double murder and other offences (I will not utter
his name, the contemptible dog), a sort of ‘Jeremy Kyle contestant with a gun’
is an example of just what is wrong with our society. We have successfully
bred an underclass of workshy layabouts, who are intelligent enough to screw
the last penny and benefit out of the system, have loads of children that us
hardworking types think carefully about how to budget for first and will go on
to breed another generation of equally worthless pond-life; pretty soon the
number of people who actually work and who have children will be dwarfed by
the feckless lazy dross who contribute nothing to society but a big deficit in
the national budget.

I am sickened by the events of yesterday. How can it be that these two fine
officers were sent into an area of Manchester where a known double murderer
was believed to be hiding out, when the area was swamped with armed officers
looking for him already? Something is not right there.

There will be a call for police officers on front line duties to be armed
routinely and I personally believe that the day has come when we should
dispense with this absurd ‘Dixon of Dock Green’ image that we have of the
police and allow them access to the means to defend themselves properly.

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
14:12

If memory serves me right – didn’t Dear Dixon end up getting shot on
duty?

JuliaM September 19, 2012 at 14:32

Your memory doesn’t fail you…

AndrewWS
September 19, 2012 at 14:38

Yes, by a young hoodlum played by the late Dirk Bogarde, but he was
resurrected later.

Twisted
Root September 21, 2012 at
13:11

Bogarde got his comuppance at the guillotine in Paris after a
rather moving speech.

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
14:47

‘Tis a miracle at my age….

Bill
Lewsey September 19, 2012 at
20:59

Quote ” Jeremy Kyle contestant with a gun” You do realise that the
Jeremy Kyle show isn’t a contest? If you think it is, perhaps you are
too out of touch with reality.

Bill
Lewsey September 19, 2012 at
21:01

How do you know that these two officers were ‘fine’? They may have
been bribe taking bullies for all we know, but they will be paraded as
‘fine,upstanding young women’

Frankie
September 19, 2012 at 21:26

@Bill Lewsey: Well Bill, if the Jeremy Kyle show isn’t a contest to
show which participant is the most cretinous specimen on show that day
then I must be missing the point!

Also, you should know that the police service is a very large
family and I happen to know – because I am in a position to know
(heavy hint Bill) that they were both very special young people… Have
some respect for the recently deceased please.

Regardless of what you may think of the boys and girls in blue (in
your case, clearly not much) no one deserved to die like that. If you
think that the police largely consist of ‘bribe taking bullies’ then
clearly it is you that is out of touch with reality… even if today I
could be accused of having a split personality!

What do you say ‘frankie’?

UK
Fred September 19, 2012 at
22:37

Frankie

I do not know the two who were killed in Manchester and therefore I
will not comment on their goodness or any other quality they may have
had or lacked. They went into the unknown and they were killed for
it.

But remember that not all police officers are wonderful people.
This comes within a week of the Met sacking an officer who was a
vicious bully and whose record while in the police previously was not
exactly exemplary.

My own experience with a different provincial force than GMP has
been that they are racist, and will not investigate complaints made
about ethnic minority youths who shouted sexual and racial abuse at my
then teenaged daughter, taking six weeks to respond to a letter of
complaint that they were doing anything about the initial complaint
raised by my daughter.

So while I respect the police who do a very difficult job, and one
that I would not want to do, I am also aware that sometimes things
happen that mean that serving police officers bring their own service
into disrepute.

Frankie
September 19, 2012 at 23:09

@UK Fred: You are, undoubtedly, correct. I never said that the
police are all perfect. They are human, and, therefore fallible and
yes, there are villains amongst the many good ones… but the majority
are hardworking, diligent and are, despite the best efforts of Theresa
May, Tom Winsor determined to keep doing the job they love, (in some
instances for 8-12 years longer than they had signed up for, due to
the latest ‘recalculation’ of their pensions) a job that not everyone
could or would do.

Louise September
20, 2012 at 20:59

Jeremy Kyle and his guests are akin to Frankenstein and his monster. The
latter frequently being confused with the firmer.

Louise September 21, 2012 at 00:48

Firmer should be former.

Iain September 19, 2012 at 13:19

I am going to disagree that traffic enforcement is not a proper use of
police time and is therefore only for revenue raising purposes.

The statistics for GB in 2011 from the DoT are as follws:
Deaths
1,901
Serious injuries 25,023
All deaths and injuries
203,950
Children killed or seriously injured 2,412

Now that is with enforcement. I doubt that if enforcement disappeared we
would suddenly become good and careful drivers and suspect these stats would
become substantially worse. In direct relation to the police they are the ones
who have to go and tell families of the accident and the consequences. Once
you have done that a couple of times I suspect you will have rather less
sympathy with the driver ‘I was only a bit over the speed limit’, or ‘the
lights had only just changed’. I recollect there was a previous post from a
former officer on this very subject.

In contrast the number of murders over a similar period (unfortunately the
stats do not cover wholly consistent periods) is about 660. It is rather
harder to identify the serviously injured and more minor injuries relating to
crime.

The middle classes are very hot on the crimes they do not commit while
being relaxed about those they do. Most traffic enforcement (I acknowledge not
all) is about your safety. Alternatively view it as preventing you from making
the mistake that will have an officer calling on a family while you say I was
only going a bit too fast, I didn’t mean it.

Robert Edwards
September 19, 2012 at 14:02

I was not suggesting that over-zealous traffic policing is purely for
revenue purposes, but it is clear to me that scores of people turning up in
high-viz jackets because someone has dropped a hubcap is not an efficient
use of public money. I exaggerate, of course. But the core issue, surely, is
the safety of officers who turn up, unsuspecting of life-threatening ambush
and premeditated murder because someone, somewhere, has neither the wit nor
imagination to calculate what might go wrong if one is not very careful. It
must, I think safely, be assumed that there are uncomfortably more of these
people, Cregan Moat, et al, out there.

Just saying; it’s a matter of priorities…

binao September 19, 2012 at 16:56

Fair point Iain, and I worked a bit on road safety in my village when we
were getting a death a year on one road.
But I would suggest their is now
less policing of traffic, based on day to day observation rather than fact,
admittedly.
What has changed is vehicle safety and road engineering. I
really don’t think policing cut traffic deaths from about 3500/year about 15
years ago to todays still unacceptable but much reduced level. Airbags and
antiskid surfaces more likely.
Still, there are a lot of police in this
country, and I have huge respect for the front line people I’ve met,
including PCSOs.
The mystery is where they all are.
Back to the crime,
I simply cannot understand how anybody can behave in this way, but they do,
and the recent European Court decision on indeterminate sentences for such
people doesn’t help.

minktulip September 19, 2012 at 17:59

“The middle classes are very hot on the crimes they do not commit while
being relaxed about those they do.” A statement with no evidence but plenty
of class implication: criminal law serves the property owning class. This is
very old stuff and has hurt the poor more than the rich. A police force that
discounts the moral aspect of crime is no police force at all; it is
government agency in the service of statistical objectives. The causes of
death are almost infinite, but murder is the worst of all. This estimation,
across all cultures and all epochs, has nothing to do with the question “how
many?”
Sure, traffic police serve a useful purpose. But safety, from
violence and theft, is the original police mission-for the benefit of every
citizen.

richard September 19, 2012 at 13:02

The feral underclass live in Government ghettoes. Social housing, benefits,
social services, terrible schools and police. The more money the State has
spent, the more feral knobends have appeared. Perhaps we should look at the
cause as well as the symptoms. I hope that the murderer receives a life
sentence and have all sympathy for the constables, but find it ironic that the
police enforce the collection of taxes which pay for the maintenance of these
awful estates and their criminal inhabitants.

Louise September
20, 2012 at 13:02

but Hyde isn’t like that. Is it?

Louise September
20, 2012 at 13:19

This might help: http://www.policememorial.org.uk/index.php?page=roll-of-honour

Hanbrix September 19, 2012 at 12:28

“Death Penalty” IMHO should not be reintroduced. I know it is in the realms
of fantasy but how about this. Twisted murdering scum who place no value on
human life, should be taken to a remote island in the pacific. Once there they
should be left, left to survive on whatever comes to hand. Survive or Die in
Purgatory with plenty of time to reflect on what they have done. This gives
the offender a chance at life therefore the state and us members of the public
can go about our lives guilt free safe in the knowledge that the offender
would still have his human rights and all right and proper thinking society
would be rid.

Further offenders can join him at regular intervals as and when convicted,
An unsupplied desert island big brother survival show if you will.
Come to
think of it we could televise the whole thing and broadcast it on some fourth
rate tv channel and call it something like “see whos the hardest now”

On another note, I find the Politicians insincere rhetoric makes me sick to
the stomach. Cameron and May highlighting the difficult job police do one
minute then ripping apart pensions pay and conditions the next… Hollow words
folks hollow words.

Robert Edwards
September 19, 2012 at 12:57

I think we call this Australia…

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
13:19

Australia is far too pleasant a destination these days. I’d be more in
favour of one of those deserted Hebridean islands that the Hebrideans have
given up trying to live on, saw one on country file the other day that had
a herd of feral bulls and cows resident that even a group of experienced
cattle farmers were scared to approach….much more like it. I do like the
idea of the TV programme too, carrying Bentham’s panoptica prison theory
to its logical conclusion….

Robert the
Biker September 19, 2012 at 13:44

Still hold that the old Roman Circus took some beating; I would think
that between gate takings and TV rights we’ed pay off the national debt
in a month:

And on your right we have the well known scumbag Dale, with a newly
broken leg.
Booooo
And on your left, the last 15 people he robbed
,armed with axes
Raaaayyy

Robert
Edwards September 19, 2012 at
13:53

Gruinard springs to mind…

Robert Edwards
September 19, 2012 at 12:17

Like Gildas, I am not blind (nor am I ignorant) of the occasional example
of ‘over-policing’ which any subject of the Crown may encounter from time to
time, generally regarding essential trivial matters to do with the motor car.
This notwithstanding, the events in Manchester are way beyond tragic. No-one
can aim off (no sick pun intended, I assure you) for a situation in which two
hard-working and presumably overstretched police officers are lured into an
ambush and murdered by a man (man?) as well-armed as any Taliban operator. I
do not know the exact details of his armoury, but suffice it to say that he
(allegedly) did this purely in order to kill them for his own sense of
self-gratification.

The call goes out – hang him! Well, he is (if this is correct – I wouldn’t
want to get this blog into ‘trouble’) of interest to those who also put
themselves in harm’s way by interrogating him in a friendly way in order to
divine what he is all about. Much can be learned from this, but the only
logical conclusion at which to arrive is that it is more useful to the rest of
us to keep him a) locked up and b) available for an interview at our behest.
In this way, perhaps the dreadful events which took place can be lessened in
frequency as a result.

The re-opening of the debates regarding arming the police and capital
punishment are inevitable and I, for one, am of the opinion that capital
punishment should exist, and should never have had a blanket ban, but always
have been a last-ditch option, as opposed to a knee-jerk, which it was for a
long time, which has, I admit, led to some regrettable errors. But not
many.

But what this creature must learn is, that having done this awful thing,
(if he did it) he now becomes ‘of interest’ so that any lessons learned by
engaging him can be applied for the benefit of the rest of us, and most
particularly those unfortunates who fall in the line of duty.

But there is something odd about this. I was burgled, in the very rural
West Country, a few years ago; items of value were nicked, in a fairly (!)
low-crime area and the plods turned up two days later. No-one was caught for
it, which surprised me not at all. So, how come, in a high-crime area, did two
officers attend upon the basis of a dodgy ‘phone call (the origin of which
could easily have been checked) within such a short period of time?

Which brings me to Anna’s core point. If this is a war between the feral
underclass (a bolus of society which acts as a sea anchor upon the rest of us
simply getting on with life) then where are the senior officers? Where is the
officer class? Paddick, or Bollock, or whatever he is called, represents the
worst type of odiously PC idiot who seems to float up to near the top by
virtue of his ability to roll over and have his tummy tickled by lefties. The
man is a disgrace (was he stoned?)

Years ago, I had an interesting conversation with the Asst. CC of a county
near me when my father (who was a mate of his), who thought I would make an
excellent policeman, forced me into it over a game of golf. I was interested,
as I’d always fancied myself as a ‘detective’.

“Hmm”, he said, teeing up:. “You may or may not make a good detective, but
do you really want to be a copper?”

By which he meant, as we relaxed at the 19th, “Can you think like a
criminal?”

A bit like: “When did you stop beating your wife?”

GildasTheMonk
September 19, 2012 at 14:23

Interesting point. I was quite keen on joining the police at one point. I
suspect i would have been much too niaive and been a complete disaster.

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
14:45

So did I – but I wasn’t well educated enough.

frankie September 19, 2012 at 18:25

In answer to your question about response times…. from what I can gather
the two PC’s were attending an ‘intruders on’ call i.e. information given
was that the ‘burglary’ was actually happening then and there. This will
provoke an immediate blue lights and sirens response, as you would expect.
In fact, it is the best of calls, the one everyone runs out of the door for
because who wouldn’t want to catch a burglar in the act? This is what, for
me as a serving officer, makes Cregan’s actions even more despicable.

I may be wrong but from what you have written I think you were reporting
a burglary which had already happened i.e. you come home and find the house
ransacked but the thieves long gone. Not an emergency response (although two
days seems pretty tardy).

Hope that helps.

F x

Frankie September 19, 2012 at 20:16

Well ‘frankie’ we can’t both be the same contributor, because… we
aren’t. Who are you?? I am me (I think). Spookily, we also appear to share
another connection, about which I will not elaborate!

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
20:20

No, you are definitely not one and the same – you are the original,
the only Frankie with a capital ‘F’!!!!

Frankie
September 19, 2012 at 21:07

Thank goodness Anna! I am glad I am me and that you know I am me
too!!

Bill Lewsey
September 19, 2012 at 21:05

I can understand the ‘blues’ being on but do you put the ‘twos’ on to
let any ne’er do wells know you are coming so they can make a safe
getaway?

frankie
September 19, 2012 at 21:08

No good point, that was me getting a bit carried away with my typing.

Two Frankie’s. Well I never!

Frankie
September 19, 2012 at 21:28

Two Frankie’s or Two frankie’s… Could be better than one! Good
evening, mate/miss!!

Frankie
September 19, 2012 at 21:14

@Bill Lewsey: If you don’t put the ‘twos’ on and… have an accident
‘en route’, because someone cannot see a brightly coloured police car
covered in brightly flashing lights travelling at sub-light velocity
then… well, let’s just say you would be “deep in the $#;~”. Those
understanding and compasionate types in the Complaints Department (aka
‘The Rubber Heels’) would come down on you like the poverbial ‘ton of
bricks’.

Hell and damnation, its probably against ‘elf and safety as well!

Robert
Edwards September 20, 2012 at 02:13

It does clarify matters – somewhat – so thank you; the South west is a
fairly laid-back place. But if the risk is to be taken on by fulfilling
randomly-generated ‘clear-up’ targets, then there surely must come a time
at which someone has to step in and say ‘enough’.

Otherwise we risk wasting these fine people.

Penseivat September 19, 2012 at 11:37

Anna,
Like Gerry above, I am also a retired Police officer and can only
echo his words. No doubt the cynical, twisted, ethic lacking, politicians will
turn out in their droves to pay respect to two young women whose shoes they
were not fit to lick. A sad day all round, for the Police in general, GMP in
particular and for all those who continue to support the thin line between
order and anarchy.

JuliaM September
19, 2012 at 13:03

And if they didn’t turn out? If they stayed away?

Please don’t tell me no-one would be castigating them for that! They,
like the police, are in a no-win situation.

Gerry September 19, 2012 at 10:57

As a retired police officer I found this blog to be spot on..well written
and very perceptive………….its a shame that Teresa May and Tom Winsor will not
recognise any of the content as ‘factual’ compared to their own twisted views
on what a police officer does or may have to do….

GildasTheMonk
September 19, 2012 at 10:23

To say it is a tragedy is hardly adaquate. I am not blind to the
occassional inadaquacy of Constable Plod, but there are many decent hard
working officers. In that sense the Police are as they were conceived to be,
in an act of extraordinary constitutional genius. They are, or should not be,
an armed force telling the public what to do, but rather an organised arm of
the public itself.
I have always been an opponent of the death penalty, but
I have to say that scum like this really stretch my tolerance. He will now
fester away at the state’s expense for years. One has to wonder whether this
would have happened if he knew that when he turned himself in he would face
the rope. He seems to have not wanted the “death by cop” which would have been
his possible fate.
I for one would not mind if he was taken out the back of
the station and given a swift bullet in the head, and from there to an
unmarked grave. No fuss, no lawyers, no human rights, a minimal cost to the
tax payer. And a lesson learned for the other scum.
A wicked and violent
man, he should be put down, just as society would out down a rabid dog. For
its own good, and ours.

right_writes September 19, 2012 at 10:42

“I am not blind to the occassional inadaquacy of Constable Plod, but
there are many decent hard working officers. In that sense the Police are as
they were conceived to be, in an act of extraordinary constitutional genius.
They are, or should not be, an armed force telling the public what to do,
but rather an organised arm of the public itself.”

Have you ever read any of the stuff by the “lawful rebellion” mobs
Gildas?

They make a clear distinction between “Police Officer” and “Policeman”,
the first being licensed collector of revenue (sometimes referred to as a
“policyman”)… The second being the uniformed member of the public that will
give little Johnny a clip round the ear for breaking a window… or
something.

Surreptitious Evil September 22, 2012 at 08:08

Have you ever read any of the stuff by the “lawful rebellion”
mobs

Oh, God, yes. And you’d struggle to find a more dreary bunch of
incompetent, incoherent dross this side of Westminster. They are, at best,
deluded. Many of them are actively dangerous.

I particularly love the ones who think that Magna Carta applies in
Scotland.

obligato September 20, 2012 at 08:54

In the debate about the abolition of the death penalty in the 50s and 60s
a sort of social contract was formed between the legislators (pro abolition)
and their consitituents (uncertain then and STILL uncertain now) “OK, we
will accept losing the death penalty because in its place you will bring in
a mandatory life sentence for murder” On this as on so much else, the
bastards in charge (of whatever political colour) have now cheated us,
‘life’ can now mean that a murderer can be out in 8 years or so.

I would like to have a real and practical national debate on reinstating
the death penalty – but first, without any reservations, I would want this
contract re-established. Conviction for premeditated murder, without very
exceptional, specific and closely argued mitigating circumstances (such as
the domestic violence victim of many years who finallly snaps) and after the
usual safeguard of appeal, must mean automatic life imprisonment without any
possibility of parole.

Then we can make the next level of decison – where there is no remorse
for or even acceptance of their crime – why should we, the taxpayers, bear
the cost of warehousing an unrepentant apology for a human being for 40 or
more years when there are much more deserving causes for our hard won taxes
? – bullets are cheap and hemp is not only resuable but sustainable.

right_writes September 19, 2012 at 10:06

“…they will keep their temper, aware that the IPCC will monitor their
every utterance…”

I am sorry Anna, but what has this post got to do with “climate
change”?

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
10:11

Independent Police Complaints Commission – http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/default.aspx

Though you could say the climate of policing has changed more surely than
the weather.

right_writes September 19, 2012 at 10:19

Stabledoor September 19, 2012 at 09:38

The police , unfortunately are lions led by donkeys. Left wing, political,
media trained, politically correct donkeys. Donkeys that prioritise revenue
raising from motorists over protecting us from the feral scum that infest our
country. The coppers on the front line have my utmost respect; the tossers
that “lead” them most definitely do not

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
09:50

I would have to agree with you there.

wonderfulforhisage September 19, 2012 at 10:10

Fear not, Prezza’s on his way.

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
10:12

Too late for Gazza this time.

NyseriA September 19, 2012 at 11:00

That’s such a tired and ill informed argument, trotted out at every
opportunity. Do you have any concept as to how many police officers are
involved in ALL traffic duty (let alone speed traps) compared to every other
unit in the force?

They’re such unhelpful comments, espeically to the front line officers
that have to face the line all the time.

Stabledoor
September 19, 2012 at 11:54

No I don’t know how many are involved in revenue raising from
motorists, but as a generally law abiding citizen it’s the only contact I
am likely to have with law enforcement in this country. I don’t wish to be
unhelpful at all, but am simply reporting on my perception of how things
are. If my perception is wrong, whose fault is that?

Cheltster
September 19, 2012 at 13:06

As a ‘frontline’ police officer I would like to point out that we
have to enforce the law, whether that law is perceived as unsuitable or
not. I get sick of people complaining about speed cameras etc. If you
were driving within the speed limit, not on a phone, with a licence and
insurance then the police would not be harassing you. Motorists always
moan when they get caught out. Funnily enough so do drug users “I’m not
hurting anybody”, thieves “That shop won’t miss a few things.” and
rapists “She was asking for it.” You cannot pick and choose which laws
suit you and neither can the police. I’m not a traffic cop and don’t
even do many traffic tickets but if I come across someone who has no
licence, insurance, is drunk/drugged, on a phone doing 50 in a 30 what
am I supposed to do. Traffic collisions kill around 3000 people a year
in this country I’m led to believe. A significant number of these
involve traffic law infringements. So by acting, police do save lives.

Of course if your argument is against the revenue nature of the
punishment I’d happily support custodial sentences as an
alternative.

JuliaM September 19, 2012 at 15:33

“…but if I come across someone who has no licence, insurance, is
drunk/drugged, on a phone doing 50 in a 30 what am I supposed to
do…”

I really don’t think this is what the people who complain about
traffic enforcement have in mind, do you? As far as I’m concerned, you
can shoot him, leave the body in the gutter and sell the car at
auction!

DtP September 19, 2012 at 15:57

Steady on Jules, then the poliss would be fly tipping!

Not Happy
September 19, 2012 at 19:12

I reported Dale Cregan to the Police in Tameside 16 years ago when,
for no reason at all, he decided to use my sons head as a football.
The police in Ashton told me ‘ nothing we can do about it, tell the
school but first, take your son to A & E.’ Perhaps if they had
done something about the little scroat then he wouldn’t have turned
into the monster he now is.

You must be Joe
King September 19, 2012 at 09:37

Spot on, but if civilisation regards this as a war we have to win, we must
fight it and support the Police with every weapon at our disposal, including
the death penalty, for such gratuitous, cowardly life-taking.

Richard September 19, 2012 at 10:14

Murder is murder, state sanctioned or not.

Anon September 20, 2012 at 00:02

Disagree

JuliaM September
19, 2012 at 10:21

Forget about ever reinstating the DP – we’d have to leave the ECHR’s
jurisdiction first, and that’s unlikely.

You must be Joe
King September 19, 2012 at 13:03

Unfortunately there is no political will to address the omission of the
death penalty from the armoury of weapons which society can call upon to
win the war against our enemies. No national figure or entity has yet been
moved to become the focal point of a move to reintroduce capital
punishment; nevertheless the need for such a salutory sanction exists,
both as punishment and deterrence.

Lerxst
September 19, 2012 at 21:03

In theory, I’d support the death penalty. In practice? Not so long as
the legal process is fallible, whether through error or corruption. One
innocent executed in error is one too many.

gladyspew
September 19, 2012 at 21:37

Maybe we should have a whip round and get a fatwa issued with a
nice juicy reward for any of the scum on the inside who off him to
collect. Like live by the sword, die by the sword. Someone should set
up a Just Giving web page for this purpose.

UK
Fred September 19, 2012 at
22:19

Lexst, if one innocent killed is too many, I trust that you are
anti abortion too.

Lerxst
September 22, 2012 at 15:38

Now that’s a completely different can of worms, Fred. But,
ultimately it depends on two issues – the right of the women to have
control over her own body, and when exactly the blob of cells becomes
a sentient human being.

JuliaM September
19, 2012 at 09:26

“For Dale Cregan will be in full possession of his ‘uman rites’. Why do
you think he gave himself up  – a sudden fit
of conscience? “

I’m more interested as to why he chose (allegedly) to lure two cops into an
ambush and THEN give himself up…

Anna
Raccoon September 19, 2012 at
09:28

Street cred – then fear of getting shot himself.

JuliaM September 19, 2012 at 10:17

Possibly, but it seems they were nowhere near catching him, and the
other crimes he’s accused of are just plain old ‘villains falling out’
type murders. Which makes this one rather out of character. We do agree
that even bad character is still character, right?

It may well be that the trial reveals more.

Retired
September 19, 2012 at 12:29

I would imagine that Cregan’s mates were getting annoyed having their
doors opened by the big red key on a regular basis. According to the GMP
press conference over fifty warrants were executed in the search for
him. The additional police activity would no doubt be impacting on the
activities of his ‘friends’, I did see a picture on a news site of some
poor citizens being dragged from their car by the police. It may just be
that his group realised he was a liability and may have been about to
remove him from circulation, so he decides to go out in what he and
quite a few of his fans would see as a blaze of glory. Having ambushed
the two officers he then surrenders in a calculated act, knowing that he
is free from the risk of being stopped by armed police. The local
community no doubt played a part in his ability to avoid capture. I
would bet that Cregan’s name is chanted at not a few football matches
this weekend.

Backwoodsman September 21, 2012 at 16:18

As usuall, some very thoughtful comments below. However,’ Retired ‘
goes closest to a possible explanation for what was a horific and
inexplicable action to normal people.’

tang0 September 19, 2012 at 09:41

Because, having been hunted by enormous (and armed) resources for the
past six weeks his capture at the point of a gun was just a matter of
time.
He was (obviously IF convicted) already looking at life x 2,
shooting a cop gives him notoriety as well. To him it appears to have been a
sick “last hoorah”.

right_writes September 19, 2012 at 10:17

Possibly a realisation that he is totally incapable of making a fist of
surviving in our modern meritocratic Britain, coupled with a dose of “crack
fuelled” psychotic delusions, and an unwillingness, unsuitability to either
hold down a job or survive on “welfare”, and is happy to settle for the next
best thing… a degree of notoriety, and “life” imprisonment…

Remember the old internet viral about the difference between being in an
old people’s home and being in prison?