What a Difference a CFA Makes! Part Three.
Another day, another CFA. Good Lord, another Russell, Jones and Walker client. How strange that they should all choose the same brief?
It is 1974, yet again, and yet again the claimant is 14(question mark). How hard is it to work out how old you were in 1974? Too hard for the Daily Mail, they still report Karin Ward as being 55 and aged 14 in 1974…
I shall call her Ms ‘H’ – although Ms ‘H’ didn’t have all the excitement of being called up for the Levitt report on account of Ms ‘H’ never having told anybody that that this celebrity, SJS, had ‘pulled her onto his lap’ and ‘forced his tongue into her mouth’. She’d never bragged to the other girls that Jimmy had kissed her, never told a soul that Jimmy had ‘tried’ to touch her breasts. Why? Well, it seems that she had previously witnessed him assault another girl and due to the ‘reaction of the staff’ when this girl had reported she had been assaulted (allegedly placed in ‘isolation’) she did not feel able to ‘disclose’. Other than to her Social Worker, who also apparently did nothing (curiously she doesn’t appear to be suing the social worker for dereliction of duty – perhaps she’s no longer alive to speak up for herself, and hasn’t left an estate worth suing). Even in the years after she left Duncroft, she never felt safe disclosing that Jimmy Savile kissed her, nor did she feel able to make an anonymous phone call to child line or similar. When the police traced all the classmates of Ms ‘C’ and asked them whether anything untoward had ever happened to them at Duncroft, still she hugged her secret to herself. In fact the only thing which appears to have provided a ‘safe environment in which to disclose’ was not the kindly face of Mark Williams-Thomas and his Exposure programme – for she met Alison Levitt after that – could it be the reassuring rustle of the CFA?
Next up is undoubtedly is a new entrant. Apparently unable ‘to disclose’ when the police traced all the classmates of Miss ‘B’ and Miss ‘C’, she has found new courage in the wake of television exposure. I shall call her Ms ‘K’. Did they hire a mini-bus to get to the solicitor? – ‘cos yet again, it is Russell, Jones and Walker….
SJS was exchanging ‘autographs for kisses’ with the girls, but when Ms ‘K’ went to kiss him – he turned his head ‘deliberately’. Of such snubs is vengeance born. Remember how bitter Ms Ward was that Freddie Starr allegedly (we shall see!!) thought her breasts too small to bother with?
Miss ‘K’ was 16 at the time – just as well or there might have been another claim pending for child abuse, on account of the fact that she was pregnant. According to her, SJS ‘placed his hand on her leg’ and ‘pursued her when she went upstairs to change. Whilst she ‘was changing her top, SJS entered the bedroom, closed the door (why? A minute ago he was kissing everybody in plain sight wasn’t he?) and stated he wanted a kiss and a cuddle. SJS placed an arm around her and touched her breasts. He then pushed her on to the bed, removed his penis from his trousers and asked her to touch it. She feared she was about to be raped‘. As she cried and asked SJS ‘to stop’ (I assume she means stop exposing his penis and/or asking her to touch it) because she was pregnant ‘SJS suggested her pregnancy should mean that she was willing’….
This incident allegedly took place in a group dormitory in a locked building (Duncroft) from which neither Ms ‘K’ nor importantly SJS could have escaped without staff involvement; and Miss ‘K’ never mentioned it to anyone? If you say so. Since she didn’t disclose to the police in 2007, Ms Levitt never got to interview her, so we have nothing to compare her story with. We do know that Miss ‘K’ has reported this to the police post-2007 (in time for the Exposure programme?). Mssrs Russell, Jones and Walker, were awaiting further information, before investing any money in obtaining a Doctor’s confirmation of the psychological injury caused by the alleged sighting of an erect penis in her near vicinity whilst pregnant 40 years ago.
Next up is Ms Beef Biriani. Ms ‘C’ – the one who wanted to thump Ms ‘B’ for dragging her into this police investigation, according to the Levitt report. You’ll be relieved to hear that Ms Beef Biriani has finally established whether the blanket was ‘over or under’ – a matter which caused her much confusion when Alison Levitt interviewed her. There she was, sweet 14 (at the time – strange she told Ms Levitt that she was 15…). (Ms ‘B’ originally told the police that Beef Biriani was 14 at the time. Confusing isn’t it?) Lord, has anybody ever checked just how old she really was in 1977?
‘SJS entered the sitting room and made a beeline’ towards this pregnant teenager wrapped in a blanket, sitting on a three seater settee in the TV room. Must have been a three seater TV, for there was already another girl sitting next to her and yet room for SJS? I’m glad she has finally remembered that ‘SJS took hold of (her) right hand, he put it under the blanket and on to his erect penis, over his trousers, and proceeded to rub it’ – because Ms ‘B’ who reported this matter as a witness in 2007, was quite sure of what she had seen when she contacted the police and set this hare running. Then there was no mention of a blanket – and had all this taken place under a blanket, it would call into question Ms ‘B’s account of what she could have ‘seen’. Miss ‘B’s ability to see through blankets is now prayed in corroboration of Beef Biriani’s account of how contact with this ‘erect penis’ caused a physical and psychiatric injury requiring compensation to cure 40 years later.
Ms Beef Biriani is an independent soul, and has apparently scorned the mythical ‘mini-bus’ to Russell, Jones and Walker, in favour of Mssrs Pannone who wish the High Court to be aware that she suffered both physical and psychiatric damage from whatever occurred under the blanket.
Last, but by no means least, we have another independent soul. What shall I call her? Miss ‘First’ or Ms ‘Last’? I’ll go for Ms ‘First. Ms ‘First’ has engaged the services of Verisona, who are suing a number of different legal entities in respect of the ‘severe personal injury, loss and damage’ including ‘pain and suffering at the time of each of the incidents‘ which includes ‘past, current and future psychiatric injury’. Blimey! Whatever could have happened to poor Ms ‘First’?
Well, for a start, Mr Savile first made his appearance in Ms ‘First’s life in 1971 when she was aged 13. This may well be why she is suing Norfolk County Council amongst other respondents because she certainly wasn’t at Duncroft aged 13 in 1971! On their first meeting, ‘SJS kissed her on the lips, placed his hand in her underwear and fondled her vagina. He also placed his hands underneath her top and fondled her breasts’. Allegedly. There was a second meeting, and it is not clear which allegation belongs to which of these meetings, spread as they are over 3 years. ‘She attempted to push SJS off but his strength overwhelmed her’. She was asked to ‘reciprocate and touch SJS penis but did not‘. SJS allegedly said ‘you were doing it for him and you owed him’. Who ‘him’ is is not explained – a witness? Then on a third occasion, when we know Ms ‘First’ must have been in Duncroft, and it must have been in 1974 for we have SJS appearing yet again and assaulting her in similar fashion – but then requesting that she perform fellatio on him in return for being allowed to visit him in the BBC studios and to participate in the Clunk-Click show. Since the Clunk-Click show wasn’t anything to do with the BBC studios, are we to assume that she made two visits to see him in addition to the two previous ghastly encounters she alleges she had with him?
Whatever, she agreed to perform fellatio ‘in order not to be left out’ – not sure whether that is ‘not to be left out of going to see the show’ or ‘not to be left out of all the other Duncroft girls’ who were apparently fondling his erect penis around this time. Was it never not erect? Can’t tell. Did the staff who accompanied the girls to the BBC theatre to see Clunk-Click also have to perform fellatio on Mr Savile in order to go? (The mind boggles) – fortunately they are still alive and can speak for themselves.
The curious thing about these allegations is that all are said to have occurred in ‘SJS sports car when taken out by SJS with headmistress’ consent’. Given that we are talking multiple offences over a 3 year period, part of which couldn’t have been at Duncroft – are we talking multiple headmistresses here? Given also that the only known time when SJS was allowed to take girls out in his car ‘with headmistress’ consent’, was during a fete, in a group of girls, an event we surely know is true for didn’t little Meirion witness it as a child? Are we to assume that at least two other girls missed large parts of the fete on account of being marooned on the roadside whilst Ms ‘First’ delivered this fellatio, or were they in the car as well, are they in addition to Karin Ward who lays claim to ownership of a similar story? How many blow jobs are alleged in the back of this Rolls Royce – which reportedly only went round the block in order to give other girls waiting in line for the same ‘treat’ a chance – can anybody say whether Mr Savile suffered from profoundly premature ejaculation compounded by a remarkable ‘recovery rate’. We should be told.
And what of Clunk-Click? Is Ms ‘First’ a witness to the ‘near orgy’ alleged by Karin Ward in the ‘wrong’ television studios, or is she Ms Ward herself perhaps, no longer wishing to mention the alleged ghastly deeds of Freddie Starr and Gary Glitter? Why would she no longer wish to mention them? (– Ah, just remembered!)
Yet again, I am clean out of energy for the day – tomorrow I shall detail the financial aspects of all those rustling CFAs that perform such miracles.
September 5, 2013 at 19:01
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@ Lucozade. No, not at all. I am not in the least bit offended, and you
have not upset me. It was just one of those things that perhaps some people
don’t really know about. And it would only have been of any importance if I
had allowed it to be. Although I didn’t have to work very hard at forgetting
it.
Please don’t ever feel that you can’t say what you think on this
Blog.
I don’t always get my words right. But that is the whole point of
commenting. You just get better at it, albeit a bit pedantic in the end. Just
in case someone might misunderstand.
- September 5, 2013 at 19:58
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Elena ‘andcart,
Lol
- September 5, 2013 at 20:15
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Yer, well. Thick as two short planks is me. But oh how I have learned.
Unless I don’t really care. Which does happen from time to time. But I do
try to be kind. Mostly.
- September 5, 2013 at 18:37
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Theres another thing that exists, and which I think was once briefly
alluded to by someone here in the Raccoon Arms, and that is, those women who,
for reasons best known to themselves, join ‘survivor’ websites, and literally
pretend to be victims. Not, presumably, for money or gain, but solely to get
the sympathy and the comfort that the rest of us might get from a bar of
chocolate. Here is one I found with just a quick search – notice the
suggestibility involved.
…………………………………………………………
I’m a 28 year old single
mom of a young boy (he just turned 3). My husband and I divorced a year ago
after he walked out a year prior. He said he didn’t love me anymore and that
he “was done”. It came out of the blue and he literally moved out overnight.
Our son was 9 months old. I’ve had a hard time healing from the hurts from
that and have found myself cycling through emotions, feeling as if I was
missing a piece of the puzzle. Earlier this week, while talking with a friend,
I had mentioned something to her and she replied, “Yeah that’s really not okay
that he did that. I don’t care if he was your husband or not, that’s kind of
like rape.” It was then I realized how much abuse had dominated our
relationship. I now know and recognize that for 6 years (4 of which we were
married), my ex-husband sexually abused me. Some of it was coercion and some
of it was rape. I am trying to process this and sort through all the emotions.
I didn’t even realize this was possible – that your own husband could do this
to you. I’ve been searching for books to read to help with the processing of
emotions and help with the healing process but keep coming up empty. How is it
that there aren’t really any books on this subject?? I am so glad that I have
found this message board. I am really looking forward to not only being
supported by some amazing people, but being a support and encouragement back
to them.
………………………………………………………………………….
and here is one who is happy to believe she was abused because some
therapist told her so:-
……………………………….
You can absolutely repress memories of CSA. I’m living
proof of this, you see, I had complete amnesia of my trauma that had happened
when I was 8 years old at school. However I had all the symptoms of abuse I
just didn’t realise it until 4 months ago. I went looking for help for
phobias; social phobia, erotophobia (this one speaks volumes), Mottephobia and
other anxiety related problems. I hunted high and low on the internet looking
for therapy, that’s when I bumped into Pure hypnoanalysis and booked myself
in. I have been treated by a lovely therapist who helped me uncover my
memories so that I can begin healing of these phobias and distress I have been
living with for 22 years. I still feel really bad but I now know why, all
those phobias are triggers to my abusive past.
………………………………………………………
These weirdos might be harmless whilst they just witter on a forum to other
like minded weirdos. But, as we know, they are capable of ruining mens lives
if they find the right quarry.
- September 5, 2013 at 14:31
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Elena ‘andcart,
Re: “Let’s face it, women do get raped, but the circumstances are often
debatable. And in the end it is how they deal with it that matters. And I
might suggest that being told by some rabid man hating women that their lives
have been ruined forever is not the best way to go, in my opinion. But this is
mostly the sort of women who infest Rape Crisis Lines. Although not
always.Your friend sounds more than sensible, and I hope they hang on to her
because it isn’t the end of the world. In fact, it often isn’t worth even
remembering, beyond silly me.”
As far as i’m concerned rape is forcing someone to have sex against their
will or while they are unconscious. Not having sex with someone who is drunk
and more than willing at the time but can’t remember or ‘regrets’ it the next
day, often in those cases it is the drunkest party that has made the first
move anyway and it is often very hard to tell just how drunk another person is
until they start losing the ability to keep their balance, but the mind can go
before that, and whose to know? Especially if the other person has had a bit
to drink themselves…
- September 5, 2013 at 14:59
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The ‘booze’/’consent’/ ‘defence’ is blatantly sexist and misandric. If a
man and a woman meet in a pub, have a few bevvies and go off to bonk, can
the man ever get away with claiming that he was raped? Why is the woman’s
‘consent’ the only consent in question? If she can’t give proper consent
because she’s had a few drinks, then neither can he. Shirley?
If a mother when bathing her small son washes his penis, is she ‘sexually
abusing’? Odds are if daddy is bathing his daughter and washes her vagina,
there will later be some accusation of molestation. Heck, even a ‘recovered’
memory. Sometimes a jail sentence and a headline.
The whole ‘abuse’ game relegates the really abused, the really raped, to
a small part of a legion of false sympathy-getters who have not been abused
or raped. But so few women ever ‘out’ these people.
-
September 5, 2013 at 15:14
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Amfortas,
Re: “The ‘booze’/’consent’/ ‘defence’ is blatantly sexist and
misandric. If a man and a woman meet in a pub, have a few bevvies and go
off to bonk, can the man ever get away with claiming that he was raped?
Why is the woman’s ‘consent’ the only consent in question? If she can’t
give proper consent because she’s had a few drinks, then neither can he.
Shirley?If a mother when bathing her small son washes his penis, is she
‘sexually abusing’? Odds are if daddy is bathing his daughter and washes
her vagina, there will later be some accusation of molestation. Heck, even
a ‘recovered’ memory. Sometimes a jail sentence and a headline.The whole
‘abuse’ game relegates the really abused, the really raped, to a small
part of a legion of false sympathy-getters who have not been abused or
raped. But so few women ever ‘out’ these people.”
I couldn’t agree more, a lot of women these days don’t seem to want the
responsibility for their own action’s for some reason…
-
September 5, 2013 at 15:59
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No, it wasn’t like that with me. I just didn’t see it coming. And there
was no way in which I could have hollered because I would have been seen as
asking for it. So I just got it over with as quickly as possible, and put it
down to experience, which was the best possible place for it.
He never
spoke to me again, nor I to him.
It was in the world of Naval history
when we all thought that everyone looked after each other, which most of us
did, while our husbands were away at sea.
It was just an unfortunate
incident that you could say I laid myself open to. But I’ll tell you what,
there wasn’t one single woman that I could have relied upon.
-
September 5, 2013 at 17:17
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Elena ‘andcart,
I think the difference between ‘rape’ and what could *possibly* be
classed as a stupid ‘misunderstanding’, is whether the woman made it clear
that it was not she wanted or not and if after that he stopped and
apologised or just carried on anyway, as sometimes signals can be misread
or misinterpreted in these situations.
I suppose it depends on the circumstances…
- September 5, 2013 at
18:12
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Be assured that it was not wanted. But it was not worth public shame.
And it was me who would have been shamed. Make what you like of that. I
instantly knew that I was on a hiding to nothing.
But that wasn’t my
point.
-
September 5, 2013 at 18:22
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Elena ‘andcart,
I wasn’t meaning to come across as rude or cheeky, just that, if
the guy knew it wasn’t wanted that would more or less imply ‘force’,
whereas if he didn’t it could *possibly* be down to misunderstanding.
Bribing or blackmailing someone to do something could possibly be
classed as ‘forcing’ them in a way too I think.
I realise that this was not the main point you were trying to make.
Hope I didn’t cause too much offence…
-
September 5, 2013 at 13:21
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@jonathan@moore ‘false memories’ – the term is often misleading and I
prefer ‘pseudo memories’ itne the context of ‘recvered memories ‘ again
question begging.
A naturally occurring false memory is often something like source
misattribution – you were told something in childhood say and over the years
it becomes ‘misremembered as having happened to you. These kinds of
misrememberings litter our entire memory field and have imperceptable traces
of origins.
Sometimes it’s possible to right it – for instance if you told a lie about
something and then remembered the event years later you might first remember
the lie – and then the fact that this was a lie and the reason for it gets you
back to the real event. I did this myself once when I remembered somebody
junping out of a bush and grabbing hold of me and him running away. Something
wasn’t quite right – I then remembered that in fact he had jumped out of a
bush and done nothing – it was dark and he might have exposed himself but I
was too naive to think to look. I told people about it but thought it sounded
a bit limp so added ‘grabbed hold of’ . I was 16 at the time of the event.
But ‘recovered memory’ isn’t like this – it comes in piecing together
‘Damascene visions’ in heightened emotional states – things that may relate to
the past but have never been previously remembered. It’s a radical revision of
life events such that it disables the genuine memory leads with all its gaps
and disjunctions. Often people talk as if ‘reliving’ that is taking part in
some imaginary movie construct – has all the hallmarks of what used to be
called hysteria.But with practice and repetition it becomes a learnt
progressive narrative – often very convicing. The habitual liar and con man
will live their lives like this – using environmental cues to spin another
quick yarn.
This article gives an idea of how this may happen – there are some gross
typos which appear to be a product of the transcription
Spectral Evidence: Fear and Ignorance in the Courts – Scribd
http://www.scribd.com/…/Spectral-Evidence-Fear-and-Ignorance-in-the-Courts
28
Dec 2008 – Spectral Evidence: Fear and Ignorance in the Courts. An article by
Margaret Jervis originally published in The Therapist Journal 1995 In 1693
…
-
September 5, 2013 at 12:00
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@rabbit @moor Having checked Moor’s blog I can confirm that TOTP in May
1967 was at Studio G Lime Grove. The whole event was a bit like warehousing –
shutter opens – punters pour in – short briefing on applause etc – half hour
of schlock dancing followed by prompt mass expulsion.
-
September 5, 2013 at 10:24
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Interesting article, Margaret Jervis. This infection can be caught from
drinking from a dirty cup. I had a cold sore once, and boy oh boy have I tried
to remember any sort of that kind of sexual abuse. Sadly, my memory still
fails me. But I shall keep on trying to remember, although who done it might
be a problem.
I also once worked for a Rape Crisis Centre in the late
eighties, due to being briefly out of work, and this job being deemed as Work
Experience. And it certainly was Work Experience. I lasted three months, after
which I told them that I thought they were all crackers. Never in all my born
days have I come across such a bunch of die hard men haters.
PS. In all
that three months there was one call to the Help Line, at which point they all
went ape shit with excitement, and discussed the gory details at great length.
I sometimes think of that poor woman and wonder what sort of help she got.
-
September 5, 2013 at 10:47
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Strange you should mention Rape Crisis Elena, had similar reports from
independent sources. And Childline.
Did you know that when the radfems set up the lines in the early 80s
nobody phoned at all – so they spent their time role playing as pretend
victims?
It’s all in the early newsletters of the movement – when they were first
introduced to the subject of ‘incest’ in the late 70s none of these nice
middle class girls had ever had such an experience but within minutes
decided that unwanted pats on the head by Uncles were sinister.
And so incest estimates (then a catch all for sexual abuse) went from
none to millions within a couple of years. I have/had these newsletter I
researched back in the early 90s somewhere – but believe they are referenced
in Mark Pendergrast’s book Victims of Memory http://www.markpendergrast.com/ UK edition for which I was
the researcher.
- September 5, 2013 at 11:19
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Well, I was among them for a short while, so I know that what I said is
true. We didn’t actually Role Play, but we were vastly encouraged to
discuss our own ghastly experiences. Sadly, mine wasn’t very interesting
due to it being partly my own fault when I should have known better, and I
said so. That didn’t go down very well.
I would love to tell you all
about each individual. What a bunch. Bloody fascinating. But my thoughts
on these people, all of whom I remember to this day, would take up half a
page, and would be frightfully politically incorrect, if not actually
libellous.
In the end I did tell a Council Representative, the Council
of which was funding this farce, that they were all mad. But he didn’t
want to know.
-
September 5, 2013 at 12:28
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I have a friend who does rape counselling. She says she rarely, if
ever gets a genuine one. Says they are usually disgruntled exes, or
girls who went too far and regret it. And all of them have ‘issues’.
- September 5, 2013 at
13:16
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Let’s face it, women do get raped, but the circumstances are often
debatable. And in the end it is how they deal with it that matters.
And I might suggest that being told by some rabid man hating women
that their lives have been ruined forever is not the best way to go,
in my opinion. But this is mostly the sort of women who infest Rape
Crisis Lines. Although not always.
Your friend sounds more than
sensible, and I hope they hang on to her because it isn’t the end of
the world. In fact, it often isn’t worth even remembering, beyond
silly me.
Child Abuse? I don’t know because I don’t really
understand what it means beyond my own Daddy having a quick grope at
my blossoming breasts. I do remember that. So I stayed out of his way
after that because I didn’t like it. Was that child abuse? I didn’t
hate him or even think he was peculiar. And I certainly wouldn’t have
thanked anyone for prosecuting him. And nor did it ruin my life.
I
had a stepmother at the time, and she was much more of a problem. So
it is probably all relative in the end.
Does it help me to talk
about this? Nope. Just emphasising my personal experiences, because
you can’t really have a sensible opinion if you have never had any
experience.
- September 5, 2013 at
13:16
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Interesting. When patients are admitted to a mental hospital in the
US, the medical doctor and psychiatrists do what is called a History
and Physical and at the end they come up with a DSM IV diagnosis,
which is a list of conditions including mental illnesses,
developmental problems, physical illnesses, assessment of social
functioning, and social problems.
I would estimate that more than half of the female patients related
a history of “sexual abuse” as well as a significant percentage of the
men. The details of the sexual abuse allegations were rarely explored,
but duly noted as V61.1 Sexual abuse of adult or V61.21 Sexual abuse
of child
and placed on their “Issues” list. After that they were
pretty much ignored.
I never saw a case where the matters were brought to law
enforcement regarding sexual abuse by a parent or step-parent, though
this was frequently alleged, as this would have been political
dynamite, especially as the parents were often the support system of
the patients.
However, if a patient punched another patient, we would often bring
a local cop in to take a statement and assign a case number if the
person punched wanted to report it to the police. Of course the county
police never took it any further, though if there was an injury that
was so serious as to cause permanent damage, it could have become a
felony charge or resulted in the perpetrator being removed to a
forensic or secure hospital.
- September 5, 2013 at 09:52
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@Margaret @ 01.48 – that would have been Lime Grove Studios in 1967. Very
different to TV Centre BUT still in Shepherds Bush as was the television
theater (Clunk Click) aka the S Bush empire Top of the Pops moved some time in
1970 to the iconic television centre
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/footsteps-across-london-pt3.html?view=flipcard
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September 5, 2013 at 00:12
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There’s an interesting irony here – one of the main training and propaganda
vehicles of ideological ‘child abuse’ diagnosis was the NSPCC at its Salford
centre – became a Greater Manchester and national training hub – run by Anne
Bannister (see ref above) and now 25 years later we see it all in twith the
backdrop of Corrie – you couldn’t make it up. Not being a tv soapista – don’t
know whether Corrie has suffered from ‘product placement’ re ideological stuff
– EastEnders is full of it – an NSPCC mainline and has been for years. If this
was private enterprise there would be outrage.
-
September 4, 2013 at 22:54
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This La Vell trial has got the lot going back to the beginning of the
scares
Cleveland – the paediatrician Marietta Higgs 1987 – remember all those
children suddenly diagnosed?
So intent on diagnosing was Dr Higgs and her acolytes that she grossly
misdiagnosed a painful skin condition – Lichen sclerosis , a couple of years
later Dr Camille Lazaro, the legend ‘ in her own imagination’ responsible for
the Shieldfield nursery case resulting in a malicious libel finding against
the authors of a report (same people who brought the Nottingham SRA case)
wrote a letter to a medical journal claiming that lichen sclerosis could be
caused by sexual abuse (on now evidence)
And here it is in the La Vell trial – but this time they can’t raise it in
support
For the Cleveland- Shieldfield saga and the wider ramification you can read
this 2 part article by me written after the Shieldfield case in 2002 or
3
and includes stuff about lichen sclerosis and Cleveland.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9635633/The-Road-to-Shieldfield-.
- September 4, 2013 at 23:21
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The case that always puzzled me , I was sort of working in that area in
Scotland at the time, was the one in Orkney. Apparently sane people believed
that the Minister was holding ‘satanic services’ dancing round a fire and
picking out children with his crook to abuse! I kept saying that is
impossible in a small island where everyone knew each other but the Social
Workers were convinced. Of course it was all complete nonsense and the tapes
of how these poor children were taken from their parents, not allowed
contact or even cards and letters and questioned in the most brazen leading
and upsetting manner was a disgrace. For a Dr. in the Cleveland case to even
contemplating acting like that is just beyond my understanding. What
happened to these poor children was real abuse, and in the case of forced
anal examinations, sexual abuse. I remember reading, in the course of my
study, not from the MSM, about the Drs. holding down a screaming 8 year old
being examined. You would have thought lessons would have been learned but
it seems they never are, the details may change but the story is essentially
the same one as you said.
- September 5, 2013 at 00:05
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@carol The full story of Orkney never came out either – the original
children were all kept in care despite their denials. I remember Bill
Thompson from Reading did a lot of on this – unfortunately he’s been an
exile in the US these past 10 year having been wrongly hounded out of his
job at Reading U .
The same claims erupted in Lewis some years back – same suspects at the
back of it – Sinason etc.
The Cleveland report never explored the role of the NSPCC in triggering
the claims – and they got off lightly in Nottingham Rochdale and elsewhere
– they were the original machine circulating the garbage through their
specialist centres and training – together with Great Ormand St Hospital
-in Scotland it was the equivalent Soc. The NSPCC always trumpet aclaim,
but never the blame – remember Victoria Climbie – and then GOSH with Peter
Connolly? Gross evidence of physical abuse and neglect that they
completely ignored. Just goes to show what an effective PR machine can do
for you. the NSPCC have withdrawn some of their most incriminating
literature – quietly – but it still exists – Anne Bannister and the
definitive method of ‘Disclosure interviews’ 1988 I think – don’t know
when it was withdrawn – by then the horse had bolted. Includes all the
cardinal errors plus the anatomical dolls and SRA props. Raccoonistas may
remember I made a lighthearted ref to the NCH- Action for Children ‘inner
bear’ cuddly toys props re Gunboat diplomacy – may have some signficance
in more recent cases with teddy bears. Therapists use them all the
time.
-
September 5, 2013 at 00:34
-
I found your article very interesting, a good summary of the full
horror of these cases, how many lives have been ruined by these people.
I remember the children were kept in care and I remember seeing the
tapes of the children’s interviews with disbelief, one poor child was
not allowed to go to the toilet until she said what they wanted to hear,
poor child was in tears. I don’t understand what is wrong with these
people who have a very unhealthy interest in sex and children! a bit
suspicious. As you said they fail the real children in desperate need
while being obsessed with imaginary abuse and recovered memory. I
suppose it keeps them in a job, as always follow the money, I wouldn’t
give them a penny. Having been somewhat involved in that area I have
heard some real horror stories of sexual abuse of children almost always
within the family, in one particular case we dealt with it was the
entire family including grandparents and seems always to have gone on,
so I am not an automatic disbeliever. If not family it was family
friends, personally I did not come accross a case where strangers or
nursery workers were involved.
- September 5, 2013 at
01:37
-
Yes there are cases which were ignored for years because it was
thought to be a sub-cultural expectation- off families that were both
poor and with mendtal disability – though even genuine cases are
sometimes ramped up so that they look similar to phony cases. That
happened in Nottingham. And I believe there may have been elements of
that in the original Orkney family to a lesser extent. I have come
across some truly horrific cases but they don’t fit any of the
stereotypes and generally do not involve young children in sexual
abuse.
It is however a collective delusion that is the mode of
transmission – there are no checks and balances in the system of
working together – that went after Cleveland. The police at that stage
put a block on referrals by Higgs and Richardson – hence the row and
the inquiry – for all her good work in producing the report Butler
Sloss reached the wrong conclusion – joint training and working
together – it turned the police into social workers and the social
workers into police – led by the ideologues.
BTW both Higgs and Richardson had a short period peddling their
wares north of the border in the early 90s – Higgs came a cropper on a
case in Ayrshire I think and Richardson was booted out from running
her NCH therapy centre because she was actually dealing with adults,
not children. Richardson is now an MPD therapist as well as having set
up and trained the Association of Child Abuse Lawyers.
I suppose what I wanted to say about the LaVell trial was that it
lent new meaning to the term ‘Show trial’.
- September 4, 2013 at 20:30
-
Great job x x x
-
September 4, 2013 at 19:04
-
- September 4, 2013 at 20:23
-
I very sporty!!!!
- September 4, 2013 at 18:35
-
Back to these Duncroft claims. Really interesting stuff, as usual Anna. I
presume that someone is instructed to defend them? Are they pre-litigation at
the moment – just letters of claim sent in the hope of early offers? You may
of course not be able to divulge all the answers on here, but any news you can
share is gratefully received. And the ATE insurers – staged premiums? chances
of the insurers declining to offer funding to trial – or taking a view after
disclosure of the claimants’ police dealings, medical and other records, etc,
etc?
- September 4, 2013 at 18:26
-
Re, the Le Vell trial – I’ve just caught up with everyone’s posts, and
would just mention a couple of things. Its true that alleged victims of sexual
assaults are granted lifetime anonymity (unless found to be committing a crime
themselves). So in this case, as always, her name musn’t be published, and
there are other restrictions too on what can be reported, so as not to paint a
picture of her and her mother’s association with the accused, which might by
default, be identifying her. However, there is no law against deduction and
reasoning, and the Court (by which I mean judge and all legal teams) always
knew that the identity would be self-evident. The alleged victim too would
have been counselled on this fact.
The tone of the reporting itself
suggests that the media, who have been hearing the full details, and will have
heard, or discerned any potential motive for the nature of and the timing of
the allegations, and who have certainly found out much more background before
the trial started – don’t think the allegations credible. And they have no
doubt spoken with the Corrie cast members, who perhaps know all the parties,
and who themselves all believe the man is totally innocent (and this even
after ‘savilisation’.
Those who have opined that it ought not to have been
proceeded with are quite right, I’d say. The precise reason for the change of
heart by the CPS was ‘savilegate’. Alison Levitt was tasked with reviewing any
cases upon which a ‘no further action’ decision had been taken, and giving
particular attention to cases in which the accused was a ‘celeb’. She began
with Ornament, which many of us think she let herself down with – but hey, it
was the ‘right’ political answer that the DPP wanted, and that she gave him.
Then she reviewed this one, and decided it would look better if they were seen
to be Doing Something. She wins, however it turns out – she’s either brilliant
for winning an unwinnable case, or it fails But She Has Done Something, and
the Victim Was Given A Voice.
Anyhow, when he gets found not guilty the CPS
will act as though he is guilty regardless. The press won’t wear that this
time though.
-
September 5, 2013 at 10:31
-
Apparently someone has now been arrested for tweeting the name of the
alleged victim.
Naturally in accordance with secret police diktats the name of the person
arrested has been not been published.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/05/man-arrested-michael-le-vell-tweet
Superintendent Phil Davies said: “Public identification of victims of
sex abuse, in particular child victims engaged in court proceedings, can
cause both immediate and long-term distress and harm, especially in cases as
serious as this.
“The same principles apply to social media as they do to the mainstream
media and we are investigating this matter robustly.
“Social media is [sic] a fantastic tool for self-expression and part of
modern life, but users should ask themselves whether they would want their
own child subject to a Twitter feed.”
The superintendent had better ask the child’s father that.
- September 5, 2013 at 10:42
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Or her mother.
- September 4, 2013 at 18:03
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You know if I was really suspicious, really really downright suspicious,
I’d think that there was a mass conspiracy going on, by the whole of the legal
system, CPS, Judges, lawyers, the works…plus the victims who will always
expect compensation…and of course those wonderful gentlemen of the
press…simply for the MONEY!!!!
Yes, yes, I know….they say you’re to always follow the money.
Too appalling for words.
-
September 4, 2013 at 18:33
-
Great point. A few weeks ago I was reading that book by the Crimewatch
presenter Nick Ross that got a lot of stick, but actually he made some
brilliant observations such as that crime is NOT the preserve of a few
deviants, but very widespread. He quoted a stunning figure that a full 30%
of the men born in the UK in the 1950s had been convicted of an adult crime,
and not just small stuff like parking tickets or speeding. An amazing number
given that most of us (I am in that group) started life in a pretty much
monoracial society where drugs were unknown, at least in the earlier years.
If you had asked me to guess that number, having not read the book, I think
I would have said less than 10%.
“Abuse victims don’t lie ever” may have been true at one time, or may
still be true, but since there is always a huge criminal population lurking
and looking for any chink in the law to get easy money, this quickly
presented an opening for fraud, as no one could really tell abuse victims
from the fakers. There are just a huge number of criminals and potential
criminals out there scheming to get their slice of the crime pie.
-
September 4, 2013 at 18:59
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Yes and some of those very criminals are those in power! You know,
those who we supposedly look up to…
Goodness know how they get into office.
-
September 5, 2013 at 11:16
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Jonathan Mason,
Re: “Abuse victims don’t lie ever”
That’s just bloody naive no one can know that. What IS known is that
there have been numerous incidents of people lying or making up stories
about having been abused and people grossly exaggerating or inflating
stories of abuse to make them into something far worse than they were in
reality.
These people are an insult to honest people who have really been abused
and would never have any intention of inflating or exaggerating it into
something it wasn’t…
- September 5, 2013 at 11:29
-
Asked if people who have false memories believe them, [Dr Boakes]
told the court: “Yes. They are not liars: they are reporting what they
believe to have happened to them, but in many cases it can be shown
objectively that it could not have happened.” She said the memories
emanated from a misunderstanding of how memory works
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/cumbrian-sex-abuse-accused-claims-he-has-never-had-relationship-with-a-woman-or-child-1.1062961?referrerPath=
- September 5, 2013 at
12:25
-
I think it is easy to have false memories and probably have a few
myself. If family members tell you that something happened long ago,
even if you don’t really remember it, you may be able to incorporate
them into your memory.
The real question is what KINDS of things do people remember?
Probably those things that are traumatic and unpleasant are more
readily remembered.
For example my earliest memory of all is that my parents left me
for two days with a German woman who helped my mother around the house
and I refused to do a number 2 on my potty. I am still embarrassed
about this, which must have happened between the ages of 2 and 4,
certainly before I my family moved from Bristol to Reading, when I was
4 years and 2 months. However if my mum was still alive, she could
probably fill in more details which I would then incorporate into my
memory of the event to the extent that ten or fifteen years from now I
would probably forget that the details came from my mum.
I also remember that I watched my father lighting the stove in the
dining room and made a fire of my own in the waste paper tin with
newspaper and firewood and lit it with matches. The flames went higher
than I expected my private fire to be and I had to call for
assistance. This did not go down well with the grown-ups, although the
fire damage was minimal. I was three years old.
The next thing I did was to sharpen the carving knife with a steel
and test it with my thumb. Only one stitch was needed, but I still
have the scar. I remember the car ride to the hospital, but not the
hospital.
From the same epoch I remember the cat had ten kittens, and my
father hit a toad with a spade when digging in the garden.
Around this time my cousin was demonstrating to my little sister
how easy it was to swing on a swing attached to our oak tree standing
up. Another trip to the hospital to put a cast on his broken arm.
Decades later my mother told me how she swore to her sister (RIP) that
she had only turned her head for a minute when little Richard fell
from the swing, but I immediately pointed out that THE WOMAN LIED as
she had been indoors in the kitchen at the time of the fall, as I
clearly remember. I would still be prepared to go to court and swear
on the stack of Bibles to the truth of this, even though I was not yet
four years old at the time.
As can be seen, each of these memories seems to relate to matters
of birth, defecation, danger, and death. I have a few more memories of
more pleasant things before the move to Reading, but not too many. For
example I remember there was a fox living in the wardrobe in my
bedroom that came out at night, but my parents have repeatedly
questioned the accuracy of the memory.
The question is, if something happened like an adult putting my
dickie in his mouth, would I have forgotten it? Hell, no!
- September 5, 2013 at
12:50
-
I have just recovered the memory that when I cut my finger on the
carving knife in the kitchen, I had to run and find my parents who
were in the middle of a tennis match at the tennis club courts that
adjoined our property, at least 100 yards from the house. My parents
made the McCann’s look like pikers. (Actually I always knew this, but
I had forgotten to mention it when I wrote the above post.)
My family’s old house is on the corner of the junction to the right
of the tennis club in the map here, and represented by a gray
shape.
http://www.biografix.co.uk/bishopsuttontennis/images/bstc_map.jpg
I am so glad there is no statute of limitations on child abuse.
While my mum probably cannot be extradited from the churchyard, my dad
is still living in the UK. I will call Panone’s today.
- September 5, 2013 at 13:39
-
I certainly experienced a “recovered memory” when I was over 30. I
just woke up one morning and vividly remembered an incident from when
I was about 12. I was quite unsettled as I thought the memory through
and convinced myself it was not just a dream I’d just woken up from. I
remember concentrating about the event for quite some time as I lay
there and gradually I recalled the circumstances of what led up to it
and how I had persuaded a friend I used to have as a child but hadn’t
seen for some time, into playing a childish game with me, but the
problem was that he was no longer a child. I have reflected since that
if I was in therapy after an unhappy life then that shock would
certainly be something I would have reported to my therapist. I
certainly remembered the name of that person and am sure the police
could easily have tracked him down.
The point is of course that I could fully remember, and knew full
well that no harm had been intended and nor was any done. I have
reconciled myself since that I had not “forgotten” it but as it had
had no relevance to my life I had never thought about it since. Why it
popped into my consciousness that particular morning after twenty
years I have no clue – maybe a dream sparked a neuron.
-
September 4, 2013 at 17:30
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I honestly don’t know how to measure the incredible damage that is being
done to genuine victims of sexual abuse. Or any other kind of abuse for that
matter.
-
September 4, 2013 at 17:50
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Yes – the real victims tend to be less florid and so are not of any
interest to the press. But it’s very damaging to the false accusers too, for
the most part.
- September 4, 2013 at 16:38
-
Wasn’t there another actor who was accused of abuse, landed up in court
just recently, but was totally cleared…can’t remember his name. I think he
appeared in Corrie or was it The Bill…? Well, whatever…there seems to be an
awful lot of this false allegation stuff about, all of a sudden. Beggar’s
belief that it even gets to court.
-
September 4, 2013 at 17:03
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I think it’s called “Politically Correct.” Some idiot said that abuse
victims don’t lie ever, and off it went from there.
Interestingly enough,
this young girl made allegations upon which The CPS decided that there was
insufficient evidence. So she went back some months later with more
“Evidence” and “Flash Backs”. This alone would have told me that something
dodgy was going on.
- September 4, 2013 at 17:09
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If only the police, CPS, and juries had your instincts Elena – some do
but others have been EatstEnded into totally credulity.
-
September 4, 2013 at 16:06
-
Re the LV trial
We don’t know yet what evidence will be presented in the trial – don’t
forget this is so far – the prosecution case. It’s not clear there is any
reporting today so there may be legal argument going on.
Points to be made – progressive allegations and recall and delayed
reporting – de facto unreliability but not accepted so by the police and
prosecution in the UK
Expert evidence – can be tightly constrained – depends on the judge and
evidence as to whether admissible
Recovered memory – virtually no complainant in a criminal trial in the UK
will ever claim ‘recovered memory’
‘Not in my body’ etc – this is so called dissociation – a variant of
recovered memory and oddities beloved of therapists such as Valerie Sinason
‘body memories, flashbacks’ and the like
Deliverance – evangelical exorcism which is ‘recovered memory’ Ellel Grange
the market leaders in the northwest.
This investigative article dates back to 1990 but is still – if not more –
relevant today. A very good read.
http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/marchant.htm
History of family conflict – think of allegations in contact disputes and
transpose this to teenagers.
Why are these cases brought? Good question. But most don’t get the
publicity.
-
September 4, 2013 at 15:26
-
Sorry, this isn’t about LeVell, but I am so gobsmacked I can’t get it out
of my head.
There is no evidence of actually rape either at six or nine
years of age ,which would not be possible at any age, whether anal or vaginal,
so all they have is Recovered Memory at a difficult time. Her word against
his.
This case should never have been brought. And I don’t know which of
them is going to suffer the most, no matter what the outcome.
Sorry I can’t be there to support Jimmy Savile, but I hope that lots of
people will be.
And in ten years time this will just be the latest tack in
Satanic Abuse, regardless of who got hurt. Thank God the poor old sod is dead.
But then that was probably the point.
- September 4, 2013 at 15:37
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There is a school of thought that only a jury should decide guilt or
innocence, and the CPS should have nothing to do with it. However, this will
inevitably waste precious court resources and result in miscarriages of
justice as the average quality of justice falls as quantity increases. This
trial appears to be a total misadventure.
- September 4, 2013 at 15:53
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Silly me. And there was I thinking that they needed some evidence
first. Repeatedly Raped? For ten years, was it? So the act must have
occurred at some point, of which they have no proof. Or does she still not
know what actual Rape is?
Not that I did at 17, but that was a long
time ago, and I would have known if it had actually happened.
-
September 4, 2013 at 16:00
-
Not my job to defend the CPS but, in the current climate, when a
teenaged girl turns up with strong allegations of that type against a
‘celebrity’, the CPS would get more stick for not prosecuting it than for
going to trial and ‘losing’ – such is the tabloid clamour. The financial
cost to all parties and the inevitable reputational damage to the accused,
even if cleared, would not figure in that calculation.
An even greater
risk in this climate is that an innocent man may be convicted, despite
questionable ‘evidence’ – it will take a smart judge to communicate
effectively with the jury in this one.
- September 4, 2013 at 16:11
-
Yes, it will, except that the judge and jury will all know very well
who the allegators are and will draw their own conclusions. The sad
thing is that the wider public may not understand the verdict if the
verdict is “not guilty” and that agitators in the press will try
cynically try to exploit the confidentiality laws and exploit that
knowledge gap for their own purposes.
- September 4, 2013 at
16:33
-
Rest assured that everyone will know by the time this is over.
- September 4, 2013 at
16:36
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Jonathan – I don’t think you know what the courts in the UK are
like in these cases – very few people do unless exposed through
personal experience – most people get their ‘ideas’ from partial
emotional press reports and TV dramas – which are generally the
reverse of the truth.
-
September 4, 2013 at 18:34
-
Anyone Googling La Vell will see they all but spell out who it is
although not in so many words of course. I have little doubt it is
made up, probably with the ‘help; of the mother. I can’t think of
anything worse for him and even if cleared unless the whole story is
out some people will never believe him.
- September 5, 2013 at 02:28
-
Whenever a Rape charge is thrown out due to lack of evidence or
exposed false-allegation, the feminists jump up and down and claim
that the ‘Patriarchy’ hates women. Any ‘denial’ of an accusation is
countered with, “Women NEVER lie about rape. It is TOO serious”, and
“For every one rape report there are 50, 100, 10,000 unreported”.
-
September 5, 2013 at 03:48
-
Amfortas,
Re: “Whenever a Rape charge is thrown out due to lack of evidence
or exposed false-allegation, the feminists jump up and down and claim
that the ‘Patriarchy’ hates women. Any ‘denial’ of an accusation is
countered with, “Women NEVER lie about rape. It is TOO serious”, and
“For every one rape report there are 50, 100, 10,000 unreported” ”
These femi-nazi’s do not deserve any respect whosoever in my
opinion, they don’t deal with reality or the truth, they only seem
interested in spreading myths and lies.
It makes perfect sense that if we life in a world where their are
people unscrupulous enough to force sex on somebody, then there will
also be people unscrupulous enough to lie about such a thing. I’ve met
women who have lied about this sort of thing, i’m not even sure if
i’ve ever met a woman who has been genuinely raped (though I know it
does happen).
Also, do they not realise that it is upto the individual whether
they choose to report a rape or assault or not? If they choose not to
do that that is upto them.
I understand the importance of making people, especially children,
aware that they have the right to do so and that there is somewhere
they can go to seek help and be listened to if they are being abused –
but the choice whether they choose to actually do that is theirs.
Why the big fuss over ‘rapes’ being unreported of all things? What
about un reported thefts, physical assaults etc?
The obsession with ‘rape’ of these people is pathetic in my
opinion…
- September 4, 2013 at 16:27
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@ Elena: This case should never have been brought. @
There are
probably hundreds of others that nobody has so far cared about and those
people have already “gone down”.
http://www.false-allegations.org.uk/false-allegations.html
In
the UK today you can be accused of abuse on almost no evidence and without
any proper witnesses to support the story
- September 4, 2013 at 16:35
-
That is the problem. “Almost No Evidence.” But at least this one is
being watched. And some people aren’t as daft as they used to be.
-
September 4, 2013 at 16:31
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Thanks Elena and Jonathan – we will have a great day – even if just a few
folk turn out – quality matters, and yes. we’ll publish the photo’s
- September 4, 2013 at 15:05
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Rabbit Away @rabbitaway 37s
55 days to go – Oct 29th Roundhay Park Leeds 1pm – Justice For Jimmy Savile
– Time to reclaim Jimmy’s good name !
We’d love to see you all there
-
September 4, 2013 at 15:59
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I would love to be there in my old Leeds stomping grounds, but duty
calls. Please take some photos.
-
September 4, 2013 at 14:17
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Anna, you are doing a great job of breaking down the Duncroft allegations,
but this will never go mainstream because of the difficulty of keeping track
of who is who, their dates of birth, how old they were when various alleged
events occurred, the various letter codes assigned to them at different times,
and so on. Also, while details of where various BBC TV shows were taped are
truly significant in deconstructing the allegations, they are mostly
meaningful to those who are more familiar with the different physical
locations, which most people aren’t.
-
September 4, 2013 at 14:39
-
Anna Raccoon doesn’t seem to have had too much trouble collating the
details. Although I ever remain overwhelmed by her dedication to
research.
- September 4, 2013 at 22:18
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“…while details of where various BBC TV shows were taped are truly
significant in deconstructing the allegations, they are mostly meaningful to
those who are more familiar with the different physical locations, which
most people aren’t.”
I think it’s worth pointing out to younger readers that BBCTV Center was
one of the most famous buildings in the country in the 1960s and 70s. It was
never off the BBC. It was used in title sequences, comedy shows, variety
shows, children’s shows (especially Blue Peter) magazine programmes and in
the news. I wouldn’t be surprised if, to a teenage audience especially, it
wasn’t the best known post-war building in the country. Although the BBC
used numerous other buildings for recording or filming none of them would be
remotely mistaken by any regular TV viewer for TV Centre and its public
profile was so dominant that most people probably assumed that the BBC
didn’t use any other studios at all in London..
If such allegedly traumatic events had happened in that building it’s
difficult to understand how the two things wouldn’t be indelibly welded
together in a young person’s memory.
If, on the other hand, you are
looking back from a distance of 40 years you might assume, as most people
would, that all of Savile’s London BBCTV work was in TVC, when in fact
little to none of it was.
- September 4, 2013 at 22:47
-
I lived in the UK throughout the 60′s and 70′s and was not aware of
this building, nor did I really ever give any thought to where BBC TV
programmes were made. I knew Granada had a Coronation St. set in
Manchester, and I had driven past the Yorkshire TV building in Leeds many
times. There weren’t many to choose from, but the best known post-war
buildings in the UK were probably the Post Office Tower (which had its own
stamp), the rebuilt cathedral in Coventry, and the new Catholic Cathedral
in Liverpool.
OK, maybe I was stupid and uninformed and from the North, but in those
days there was no Internet and only black and white TV on 2 channels until
1969. Actually BBC2 TV started to broadcast in 1964, but at that time many
people did not have the 625 lines TVs necessary to receive it.
I lived in London for about a year in 1968-9 and was not aware of this
building, nor was I interested.
So I am not so sure that young people would have known the names of
different buildings that had TV studios or where TV programmes were made.
They would just have been excited to have the chance to be on TV and they
would not have been doing the driving, navigation, or map-reading to get
there–they would have been taken by adults.
http://www.grosvenorauctions.com/dyn_pages/stamp_images/27/4794.jpg
-
September 4, 2013 at 23:18
-
You are missing the point – the ‘building’ where Clunk Click was made
was a theater, BBC tv centre on the other hand is a sprawling complex.
Young visitors would indeed be very excited to be going to such a place
and they WOULD have remembered it. If we’re talking about Top of the
Pops, prior to 1970 and after it moved from Manchester in 1967 (from
mem.) is was recorded at Lime Grove studios, again a very different
setting to TV centre with that iconic frontage. Remember, nearly every
television program ended with the words “answers on a postcard to” and
it was always TV Centre, even if the progs were not made there the
admin/bosses had their offices there.
The Clunk Click location is the most important for the Duncroft girls
stories and, as we keep saying, the gals and their script writers got
their stories wrong end of !
- September 5, 2013 at
01:05
-
I don’t know. I appeared on an American TV quiz show called
Jeopardy! in the 80s when I was in my 30s and I can’t now remember
what the name of the building in Los Angeles was where the studio was
where they recorded the shows (I think it was in Burbank, but I’m not
really sure) and I don’t even remember which network carried the show,
which I believe is still in production.
- September 5, 2013 at
01:23
-
“answers on a postcard to…”
I remember all the same London landmark buildings that Jonathan
does, but I certainly also remember the Television Centre complex too.
Rabbitaway is correct, if you watched ANY of the BBC’s TV output in
the 1960-70′s, you couldn’t not know of it. So much so I’m going to
attempt this from memory only:
BBC Television Centre
Wood Lane
London
W12 7RJ
The address (assuming I’ve recalled it accurately) featured at the
end of almost every show and often times during if appropriate;
usually headed by a room number such as Room 2129 when viewers were
required to write in. The building itself appeared regularly in many
programs aimed at children and young people, in science and technology
shows like Tomorrows World and has featured in some movies too I seem
to recall. The BBC were justifiably proud of their studios and took
every opportunity to show it off… that, and it was a cheap outdoor
location when needed.
And I recall all this from 40 years ago but have never written in
nor visited the studios, although I did accidentally happen to drive
past in 2005.
- September 5, 2013 at
01:48
-
I went to Top of the Pops in May 1967 – it was in London and we had
to wait outside – it was definitely not the Television Centre and may
well have been Wood Lane or Lime Grove – it was that part of west
London. I remember the building and studio seemed a bit scruffy – we
were in for the broadcast and then out in a flash – don’t even
remember going through corridors just through a large door. And I
can’t remember who the presenter was or who the live guests were or
anything much other than hoping to be on tele. It was a seminal moment
in distinguishing fact from fantasy. The reason I remember the month
was because it was my birthday.
-
September 4, 2013 at 11:44
-
I think I’ve lost the plot.
-
September 4, 2013 at 11:39
-
Regarding Michael Le Vell, it now seems clear – if the Manchester Evening
News reporting is accurate – that the accusations are based on Recovered
Memories.
From Day 1:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-michael-le-vell-trial-5829188
16:18
“The
complainant told court the abuse stopped when she was a teenager, and that
memories of it ‘all came back to me in one big flush’ after she attended a
self-help conference, which led to her telling her mother the actor had
‘raped’ her.”
From Day 2:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/live-coronation-street-actor-michael-5832144
11:33
“Mr
Williamson is challenging the witness about differences in her accounts about
the rate at which the alleged abuse progressed and the detail of it.
The complainant said she had a better recollection of the alleged abuse now
than she had previously. “I have had so many flashbacks in the last few weeks
I have remembered a lot more”, she said.”
This is classic recovered memory bollocks. Did the defence barrister ask
the right questions?
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September 4, 2013 at 12:59
-
Having some difficulty with this evidence. Who was he to this child? What
was he doing in the house in the first place? How was he wandering around in
the middle of the night? Where was her mother?
And No, I am not blaming
her mother particuliarly. Love that word. It encompasses both particular and
peculiar.
Okay, wait for The Defence.
- September 4, 2013 at 13:05
-
@Elena ‘andcart.
Why didn’t the dog bark in the night?
Some of us have asked the same questions, but this information is
confidential evidence that the public is not allowed to know. However if
you refer back to recent posts on Part Two of this article, you may some
theoretical musing that would help you follow the plot better, if indeed
it is a plot.
- September 4, 2013 at
14:29
-
OMG. Wish I hadn’t asked. How utterly awful. What a very naive twit I
still am.
However, what is that old saying about Women Scorned? And
this won’t be the first time that has happened.
I think I feel sick.
The damage to that man is irrecoverable if he is innocent. No one is
going to recover from this.
No, I don’t believe it. But then as far
as I can see it is virtually unprovable as there doesn’t appear to have
been any physical damage which is simply not possible with a six year
old. Anything else is simply her word against his.
And without proof
I don’t believe anything.
- September 4, 2013 at
14:47
-
No, you are not a naive twit, but like all of us you have been
misdirected by misleading media reports. As soon as any of us have
started to ask the questions you asked this morning and done a few
Google searches about this fellow, obvious points have jumped out.
Until very recently I had never even heard of Le Vell, not having
watched Corrie since Len Fairclough was in his prime, and certainly
knew nothing about Le Vell’s past domestic history until I did a
little Googleing yesterday and found information in very obvious and
very public places like Wikipedia or showbiz biography sites, or
Google images. However the media coverage since the accusations arose
all seems to have consisted of (presumably) deliberate misdirection of
the public.
- September 4, 2013 at
23:28
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@ Jonathan Mason
…. not having watched Corrie since Len Fairclough was in his
prime
And we all know what happened to him don’t we?
- September 4, 2013 at 23:53
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I had forgotten about that case, just shows even if innocent
you are still ruined, a travesty of justice.
- September 5, 2013 at 10:51
-
To be fair, the report says he was sacked from Corrie for
selling the story of his court case and acquittal to the
newspapers, so he does seem to have been the author of that
misfortune. I daresay £100,000 for the story was pretty tempting
however. I wonder what Jimmy Savile got paid for the three part
serialisation of his “dark side” by The Sun, in 1983. Whatever
it was, it went straight to Stoke Mandeville I think.
http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/tomorrows-news-today.html
Strangely it seems to have been this scandalous story that
held up Jimmy getting his knighthood for several cycles of the
Honours System – until Maggie wielded the sword of destiny.
- September 5, 2013 at
00:53
-
Yeah, I don’t think I knew anything about it until I read about
his death.
It is amazing how in less than 20 years the Internet has
changed everything in terms of information, news, etc. plus the
ability to catch up with people from the past (and join together
to concoct allegations, perhaps). Now it really doesn’t matter
where you are physically if you want to get the news. In the 80′s
I lived in Bermuda and a woman I knew who cleaned aircraft at the
airport used to bring me the used British Sunday newspapers from
British Airways on Sunday evenings. No need for that now and the
News of the World is a goner anyway.
- September 5, 2013
at 13:31
-
And with all the subtlety of a brick tied to a sledgehammer on
the front of a ten ton truck, “Ads By G**gle” have placed this
underneath that Mail article:
FREE SEX OFFENDER SEARCH!
750,000 Sex Offenders Nationwide
Check Your Area Instantly
How thoughtful…
- September 4, 2013 at
13:07
-
By coincidence, Le Vell split from his wife right around the time of
the allegations.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2049408/Michael-Le-Vell-wife-Janette-Beverley-split-child-sex-abuse-allegations.html
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September 4, 2013 at 14:20
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Elena ‘andcart,
Re: “Having some difficulty with this evidence. Who was he to this
child? What was he doing in the house in the first place? How was he
wandering around in the middle of the night? Where was her mother?And No,
I am not blaming her mother particuliarly. Love that word. It encompasses
both particular and peculiar.Okay, wait for The Defence.”
Is it that unusual? If I go and stay with a friend thats got children
for a few days I quite often find myself alone with their children while
their busy or agree to watch them if they have to pop out. My mum used to
leave us with our granddad a lot and get him to pick us up from school
when he was down for a visit and my dad asked a girl from the school to
watch us on at least one occasion when he had to be away for the
afternoon…
- September 4, 2013 at
14:36
-
At 2 o’clock in the morning?
But it has all been explained to me
now, without going into any great detail. Although why it should be
withheld from the public is a bit beyond me. They don’t seem to have any
trouble normally in these cases.
Personally, I think the world has
gone mad.
- September 4, 2013 at
14:49
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Personally, I think the world has gone mad.
Oh, it has,
it has!
- September 4, 2013 at 13:19
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Maybe Janet Boakes is in the wings.
http://fbga.redguitars.co.uk/roleoftheExpert.php
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September 4, 2013 at 10:16
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This friend of JS could not see his grandson. He could send a letter /card
to him on his birthday and new year. His daughter was estranged. A good friend
JS had died, after some yesrs of infirmity; with the vultures waiting in the
wings administer the after death dismemberment of JS’s reputation. The journos
were gathering around him to do a similar demolition job while he was still
alive. So why not just depart this unkind world and rest in peace? It is a
good example of the well of unhappiness that surrounds this whole murky
business. The witch hunters must have done high fives of delight to get such a
wide circle of perfectly respectable persons into a maelstrom of worry and
deeply prolonged anxiety. The lawyers get their CFAs Come to fruition (another
mansion for some no doubt?). Let us fervently hope not.
-
September 4, 2013 at 10:39
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Miss M’ – exactly, well said – the human cost is untenable as I’m sure
Jimmy’s folks would agree ! Moor money for ‘them’ = less for those in
genuine need !
- September 4, 2013 at 10:14
-
I am fuming that huge amounts of compo is to be paid out of BBC licence
fees to people whose accounts of sexual abuse have not been properly
investigated. I wish I knew how to protest in an articulated way to them. It
seems to me that the BBC are just paying these people in the hope it will all
go away.
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September 4, 2013 at 11:15
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I feel the same way Charlotte.
Sadly, protests will probably be limited to writing stern letters to the
BBC letting them know we’re not happy about these large disbursements of
public monies on unproven/untested claims. It’s always possible a media
rival might pick up the story (they’d usually relish the chance to put the
boot in) but too many are invested in the JS story. Would they risk
undermining their own make-believe world by even daring to suggest these
claimants are telling anything less than the absolute total truth?
But we have to start somewhere. I would encourage everyone to write to
the BBC. Ask them questions, which will force them to respond rather than
ignoring your letter; questions such as: “What steps are in place to recover
the compensation ‘if’ these claims are subsequently found to be false?”. Or
“Have additional funds been set aside for potentially large numbers of
claims that have perhaps yet to come to light?”.
- September 5, 2013 at 02:19
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…..and “what steps will the BBC take to sue those people who make false
allegations, on behalf of all the Licence-payers who have been
ripped-off?’
- September 4, 2013 at 11:15
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I wonder if they are though. Reading that flurry of reports it seemed to
be being generated by the Liz Dux method of the lawyers telling the media
the BBC were going to pay up. I recall they tried to use this same
pressurising technique with the Savile Trust some months ago.
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September 4, 2013 at 11:49
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Me too, Charlotte.
Perhaps an FOI enquiry on behalf of ALL licence-payers will spur someone
in authority to have regard for fiscal accountability.
It cannot be right that a mere allegation of ‘my breasts got squeezed’ by
(insert celebrity name here), somewhere results in a hush-money handout.
- September 4, 2013 at 09:47
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Gosh – has anyone seen this – how sad !
- September 4, 2013 at 09:58
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His death occurred in December 2012.
http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/former-dj-and-council-campaigner-ray-nortrop-found-dead-at-home-1-5270239
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September 4, 2013 at 10:11
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Yes – but they link it to the JS revelations – they also refer to him
as a ‘friend’ while his only connection seems to have been in the 60′s.
You’ll note that the press started sniffing around him but the police
confirmed that there was nothing on him. That and the personal problems
obviously took their toll. The presss like to play with other peoples’
lives don’t they ?
- September 4, 2013 at 10:20
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He had evidently upset the Labourites over “Donnygate” (whatever that
was) so maybe he had a lot of enemies and few friends. Sadly his suicide
would just have been used as grist to the “paedo-conspiracy” mill, back
last year.
http://www.the-villager.co.uk/ARCHIVES.ASP?FILE=20030209036
- September 4, 2013 at 10:45
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@Moor check you emails
- September 4, 2013 at 09:41
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Some day out that turned out to be for the gals who had to wait around
whilst Ms A,B,C etc etc were in a dressing room with JS and half the
TOTP?Clunk Click cast. Who was it that mentioned the staff at the BBC
constantly coming into the same dressing rooms (see MY Savile the beast – it’s
in there somewhere ) ? Note, Karin definately says BBC Television Centre in
her account (pollard) as does the BBC journalists running the ‘investigation’
for the film that never was (Newsnight) – ah, poor Meirion !
- September 4, 2013 at 09:28
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That deserves free drinks for a month.
Put them all on my tab.
I need
a stiff one myself…………
- September 4, 2013 at 08:31
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[waves] Hi Karin, hi Liz Dux, Hi Mr Collins [/waves]
Norfolk, eh… !
{ 101 comments }